EPTLadder Fear - Page 2
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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Felo
Germany392 Posts
On October 27 2011 17:18 jnc wrote: ^ accepting that is what allowed me to mass game and get over ladder fear! ^ Not accepting this is what allowed me to improve. Jokes aside, this post holds a lot of truth. Another problem I often see with a lot of people is the fact that they take SC2 way to seriously. Lets face it - the largest part of the player base won't be in the masters league and honestly thats not even neccessary. The Game doesn't get magically more fun when you have a blue star in your profile - so in my opinion your goal when starting up the game should not to win or to get promoted but to have fun. I know that the fun comes from winning for a lot of people but you can't boil down something only to the outcome, or else you'll be a "fool for victory" as BoxeR has stated in no time. As soon as you realize that the fun comes not from pressing "Score Screen" but from planning your moves, leading armies and executing strategies then you can start to truly enjoy SC2 and the ladder ^.^ | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On October 27 2011 16:54 Itsmedudeman wrote: It would help because part of ladder fear is about going on losing streaks and getting demoted. Being able to play games against random people is a step in the right direction, and will give people confidence. Also, why should ladder be the only thing that matters? As long as people can find ways to play the game, that should be the most important thing to consider. Ladder fear IS the fear of stats (rank). Conquering ladder fear means you stop seeing your ladder stats (points/wins/rank/league) as ways to measure against others (there's always someone better) and start seeing them as ways to measure progress. I just got demoted from placement. That means I haven't been playing as well as I can recently and need to step up my game to get promoted again. | ||
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ChinaLifeXXL
United States365 Posts
Then I mass gamed and now I don't care as much about losing. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
Nothing else ever managed to do that, no first date and no job interview ever made me as nervous as a simple ladder match. I'm a person who can't accept that i can't reach #1. I always want to be the best in everything i do, be it my job as programmer or a game i play. If i'm not the best, i must (by my definition) suck. Every loss shows me again and again that i suck and will never be good enough at the game, no matter how hard i try. It doesn't matter if i would play against Nestea or some bronze guy, if i lose the game it just hits me really hard, so i mostly stopped trying. There were times where i forced myself to play more, but after 2-3 losses i just get mad at myself for being so bad and end up losing 10 more games in a row. Recently, i play at most 5-10 laddergames a week and use the huge amount of tournament streams as excuse for not laddering. The ladder is scary :-/ + Show Spoiler + It's probably because i messed up my life to a point where fixing it is no longer possible and SC2 and my programming are the only things left to define how much i'm worth. Thats why i take it waaaaay too serious. TL;DR: I'm stupid | ||
micronesia
United States24779 Posts
Who I was able to beat was pre-ordained Who I was able to lose to due to my own mistakes wasn't That was something that de-motivated me a bit I guess. Obviously the first statement isn't really true, but whether it's due to my style or whatnot, it usually wasn't wrong. | ||
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Gurrgeh
United Kingdom24 Posts
The first was to use background music. I'd put Seoul FM internet radio on and just have kpop coming out at a nice volume where I could still hear the game. This helped put me in a more relaxed mood and just made it seem more fun. I now associate this music with fun laddering time. The second was mass gaming to the kpop. Once you start doing it then it becomes much easier to play. Thirdly was really trying to accept that my goal is to improve and not win. Winning is nice and all but what really makes me happy is if I play some game that I wouldn't have won before but I can see a difference in my control and decision making that leads me to win. When you want to improve then you learn more from a loss than you do from an easy win. Far more. If I were to lose to a cannon rush then it means I need to go revise my idea of how to hold them and then they should become free wins for me if I scout properly. Losing is a lesson and an opportunity. Winning is the affirmation of the lesson and an ego boost. I feel like the music was the huge thing which changed my play though. Putting the internet radio on was just like flicking the anxiety switch off and everything else flowed from there. | ||
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
On October 27 2011 17:19 Waxangel wrote: Eh, the better solution is to just drink a lot. Oh the wise words of the Snorlax! So true though, I stop caring if I lose after a beer (or 5). | ||
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
On October 27 2011 16:45 Itsmedudeman wrote: I added a suggestion in one of my blogs on what features blizzard should be adding and one of them was "No Stats Matchmaking". It's seriously one of the simplest ways to promote people to just play the game and holds no backlashes for them. I would suggest it to them on the blizzard forums but it would sort of blow my mind if they haven't thought about this. If they do implement a no stats matchmaking system, it would kill the ladder system, cause already a lot of people stop laddering and custom game once they reach masters/diamond. Also you'd find a lot of people just looking to troll, because there is no importance placed on the outcome of the match. The main cause of the fear is the fact that your being judged by this system, and removing that doesnt cure it. A lot of times I feel anxious when I'm trying out a new build,a nice way to test your build/mechanics out or just to "warm up" is to play custom games with your clan mates and then start to ladder | ||
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RogerX
New Zealand3180 Posts
I like how you adressed the reality that you won't get consistent crazy win/loss ratio. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
I remember playing Kain the Feared in Warcraft 3 and started getting uncontrollably nervous that I was playing a battlereports/Kali legend. | ||
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BabyToss!
Czech Republic588 Posts
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
I had serious trouble with this unti lvery recently. One of my worries was, because I didn't really want to ladder I wasn't playing up to my expectations since I was getting a little rusty. So then I'd want to ladder less. What I ended up doing is tanking my elo all the way down to the very bottom of bronze. That gave me the comfort of being able to work on my gameplay while not worrying about the immediate possibility of losing. It also gave me motivation since I've been steadily working my way back up the leagues, so I have a clear sense of accomplishment. Since I did this I've actually played more 1v1 ladder games than I have since the beta, which is pretty cool. Don't know if I'll be able to keep it up once I reach peopel at my skill level again though, | ||
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humbre
353 Posts
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Unfortunately, mass gaming wasn't a viable solution. I only have time to play 2-3 games per day, 5-6 on rare occasions, not enough for brute-force desensitization. Instead, I had to sit myself down and devise a mental attitude that would enable me to Find those Games. I began by asking myself: What am I getting out of pressing the button? Why was I doing it? What was I trying to achieve? As this was the first time I'd ever properly analysed my relationship with competitive games, it was a combined epiphany and facepalm to realise that I was doing what I always did, which was to unconsciously cast myself in the fantasy role of: Ordinary Guy Who Turns Out To Be Amazing! You know the deal. The Last Starfighter. Star Wars. Ender's Game. Obviously I wasn't literally imagining myself hitting 400apm in my first match, or in fact doing any of the things it actually takes to be good. But I was definitely imagining myself being gifted, a fast learner - quite the cosy little fantasy to put on the line when I hit that button. I realised that if that were the only reason I could find to play, I might as well stop. The only way that could end was - I could see with hindsight - how my other abortive forays into games and sports had ended: frustration, resentment, and a lot of brooding where I would waste hours cooking up reasons why it wasn't my fault. So I came up with a different reason to play: SC2 was going to be the game that changed my relationship with games. I was going to train myself to enjoy the process of learning, and to value improvement rather than attaining any particular ranking. Next I considered the reactions I had to winning and losing: When I won, I'd often stop playing, or watch the replay instead of queuing up another match. This was easy to understand: I'd been anxious before the game and now it was over, and had ended well. I'd bet on black and it had come up - and now I was going to leave with my winnings rather than risk another spin. On the other hand: When I lost, my instinctive urge would be to deliberately throw a string of games. This confounded me at first. But then I saw echoes of it in posts by other people here on TL. They advised those experiencing ladder fear to 'play some 2v2s' or 'just mess about' or 'do crazy strats', because: It's all about taking control. Nobody can stop you insta-quitting, just as a strategy you expect to fail can only surprise you pleasantly. Fear of the Find Game button was plain old Fear of the Unknown, and I finally appreciated something else: The ladder always does its best to maximise uncertainty. That's what funneling you towards a 50/50 ratio means. Even if you're awful, like me, there's no escape, no emotional refuge to be found in fatalism, or mentally casting yourself as the underdog. The outcome of the next game will, for the majority of players, always be a coinflip. The only way out, I decided, was: Take the outcome out of the equation and focus solely on self-improvement within each game. There are plenty of guides here on TL telling you to pick some aspect of your play and practice it - maybe it's creep spread, or injections, or constantly building SCVs, or using your chronoboost. These guides are spot on; that's exactly the right way to improve. But for me, overcoming ladder fear meant making that improvement an end in itself. Don't practice your creep spread because it'll help you win more games. Practice it because being better at spreading creep is cool. Practice constantly building SCVs and keeping your money low because it's a fun, challenging minigame, and it's great to have a massive army earlier than you used to. Scout and take watchtowers because, at the very least, knowing what's going to be killing you and when is more satisfying than having it arrive unannounced. And when that scouting knowledge allows you to make it a less thoroughly crushing defeat, or better yet a close-run thing, pat yourself on the back for a job well done. Over the next few weeks, I was gradually able to train myself, both while playing and between sessions, to think about what I'm going to try and do better rather than brooding over what coulda/woulda/shoulda happened in individual games. I still like to watch winning replays rather more than I should, but to congratulate myself on a nice bit of scouting, well-saturated bases, timely upgrades and so on, rather than the outcome. And I still get the occasional twinge when I lose, the ghost of that urge to deliberately put my MMR in the toilet, but I'm able to greet it with a wry and knowing smile, like a childhood enemy whom I no longer fear. | ||
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SenorChang
Australia4730 Posts
On October 27 2011 17:19 Waxangel wrote: Eh, the better solution is to just drink a lot. Done that, then wake up the morning to a page full of losses lol. It's not so much fear in my case, I have periods where I know I won't be able to play or just won't want to play and my mechanics and builds I had practiced just go out the window and I feel like I'm back to square one and get frustrated that I begin losing to players that I was beating previously. Frustration of just having to redo it I guess, maybe when this final semesters over I'll be able to just play a more consistent amount. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 27 2011 19:24 Umpteen wrote: This is an excellent post. I wonder if I should move this to sc2... | ||
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atmuh
United States246 Posts
I should probably just forget about that and play but when I'm so tired I'd rather just lay back and watch a stream, usually falling asleep for a bit while watching. It's more relaxing. | ||
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SnowK
United States245 Posts
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
On October 27 2011 17:39 ChinaLifeXXL wrote: Last season I had some bad ladder fear because I would play everyday for a week, get my skills up, then take a day off and get rusty and then I'd be afraid to get the necessary loses to get back to form. What helped me get over that was looking at myself and saying "you are actually not very good. You shouldn't worry about losing." Then I remembered what jaedong said when he was asked if he got nervous before matchs: "What's the point?" Then I mass gamed and now I don't care as much about losing. This happens a lot to me too. When I decide to start playing again, I first watch replays for an entire day, and focus on a build per matchup. Then I play a couple of games each day untill I can't play for some days. After this I feel out of shape and never start again. | ||
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