EPTMaybe he's talented, I just think the test proves nothing.
Answering all the "Can I be a progamer?" ?'s - Page 3
| Blogs > lastshadow |
|
ThyHate
240 Posts
Maybe he's talented, I just think the test proves nothing. | ||
|
accordion
Canada58 Posts
Look at the first page and then look at the 69th page... it's very possible to become a professional at something through hard work. Most are simply not dedicated enough to make something like that happen, and that's where the divide is. I don't really understand why anyone who isn't already good at this game (masters+) would want to take the challenge of becoming a progamer. Especially since it's obvious they weren't willing to put in the effort in to rank up when they were only playing for fun. It is an absolutely insane commitment with very little payoff for the amount of time invested, along with missing out on some very important years of real life. | ||
|
Geordie
United Kingdom653 Posts
| ||
|
Geordie
United Kingdom653 Posts
| ||
|
John Madden
American Samoa894 Posts
| ||
|
VPCursed
1044 Posts
if you truly love this game, and enjoy everything from losing, to competition, to stress.. with the proper coaching, I believe there's no doubt you can reach the higer tier of sc also, in regards to the high activity in certain areas of the brain. casuals and pros are going to use different areas of the brain.. casuals will be using the creative part of there brain more often, while pros will be working purely from instinct/memory | ||
|
lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
On October 21 2011 08:20 VPCursed wrote: if u have the passion, you're limitless to what u can achieve. You said your self jaedong,flash,bisu practice more then anyone.. and it shows, thats passion. if you truly love this game, and enjoy everything from losing, to competition, to stress.. with the proper coaching, I believe there's no doubt you can reach the higer tier of sc also, in regards to the high activity in certain areas of the brain. casuals and pros are going to use different areas of the brain.. casuals will be using the creative part of there brain more often, while pros will be working purely from instinct/memory Just because they work harder (only a few extra hours if that, in fact Jaedong plays much more than Flash/Bisu (+3hrs more rumored i think?) and rarely takes breaks even on vacations. Does not mean they're not more talented. And about your "if you have the passion, you're limitless" why has there not been another bruce lee, michael jordan, mickey mantle, larry bird, or anyone along those lines? They come around maybe 1x a decade or 1x a generation. | ||
|
KurtistheTurtle
United States1966 Posts
On October 21 2011 08:30 lastshadow wrote: And about your "if you have the passion, you're limitless" why has there not been another bruce lee, michael jordan, mickey mantle, larry bird, or anyone along those lines? They come around maybe 1x a decade or 1x a generation. ask 1000 people to completely, utterly single-mindedly concentrate on a specific task for 3 hours. even one hour. out of 1000, I'd bet ~10 could truly do it. dont know if you've ever wrestled (like folk-style high school) but its the people who do the basic takedown 100 times straight, concentrating on every one, perfecting it until they do it right every time. then they do it 100 times again, then again after practice. when the match comes around, the pressure bears down and it's you against one other person in the ring surrounded by throngs of people, nothing else matters but doing it right and performing to your own standards higher than anybody else's. going competitive requires a finishing instinct directly comparable to physical sports. this instinct is born in every person, but in most it isn't cultivated. speaking for america only, it's diminished, scattered, and distracted to oblivion. true skill is marginalized unless its in specific areas. this instinct isn't specifically talent, or hard work. its the ability to restrict yourself, limit yourself to a more specific set of realities and goals and block everything else out. I never would have seen myself wrestling, let alone at a high level, but only got there through the cultivation, hard work & vision of my coaches. in SC, those don't exist. it's all self-done. I genuinely believe there have been more larry birds, mickey mantles and mj's...but their true devotion doesn't lie in a public area on a skill based off of spectatorship but niche and private roles instead. | ||
|
VPCursed
1044 Posts
On October 21 2011 08:30 lastshadow wrote: Just because they work harder (only a few extra hours if that, in fact Jaedong plays much more than Flash/Bisu (+3hrs more rumored i think?) and rarely takes breaks even on vacations. Does not mean they're not more talented. And about your "if you have the passion, you're limitless" why has there not been another bruce lee, michael jordan, mickey mantle, larry bird, or anyone along those lines? They come around maybe 1x a decade or 1x a generation. Whose to say their hasn't They're legends of there time, Glorified. It's hard to become great when you're overshadowed by people like them, I don't deny that some people have it better then others, and will be able to reach the top easier, But there are many skills to a pro gamer.. and 1 cannot dominate all. Natural intelligence/ability to process things faster doesn't mean you wont crack under pressure or motivation/drive to play insane hours. Who knows, maybe there are people out there who have way more potential then flash or jaedong, they just weren't able to reach that because minor things blocking them. also regarding spiderhands.. OOV. the guy with the greatest win streak of all time.. I don't think he has spider hands. and Julyzerg, i need not defend his case | ||
|
lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
Back to what you just previously said though, so again going back to my original point, why is it then that all these players spending countless hours watching replays/vod's/tournaments/streams/playing, still can not achieve even low masters? It's the same principle, you can not just say hard-work is all that is needed, because that's simply not true. Everyone would love to be a millionaire off being an NFL player, but life's not fair, and everyone lies when they say "you can be whatever you want". | ||
|
jalstar
United States8198 Posts
If you're not masters that should be your goal. If you are it should be getting into grandmasters. For people in grandmasters they should probably play a lot of small online tournaments before trying to play full-time, that way you know if you can cut it and that's how lots of Euro pros like Kas, Stephano, Nerchio, and a few others got started. | ||
|
Chef
10810 Posts
why is it then that all these players spending countless hours watching replays/vod's/tournaments/streams/playing, still can not achieve even low masters? Maybe:
BW is extremely competitive no doubt not everyone can be the best, but there's a plethora more factors than the magical idea of inherent talent. And in SC2 basically all you need to become a top pro is the drive and the RTS background since there is still so little genuine competition and no one is really practicing like they should. There's a large talent controversy debate to be had, but it's more effective to read studies yourself. Suffice it to say that people are born different, but that biological differences aren't the greatest factor in determining competitive success in many activities. "HEY LOOK XELLOSES BRAIN LOOKS DIFFERENT WHEN HE PLAYS SC" just screams you're a dumb ass who doesn't know how to apply information. You have a huge ego. You got banned from this community for cheating in BW because you weren't good enough to actually compete, and now you wanna tell people how talented you are for being ok at sc2??? OKTHX. I normally forgive and forget people who cheat and then try to play legitimately, but you are making a really dumb argument and I think your are letting your self-inflated views of your skill infect your judgement. I would personally assume that in most actually competitive activities people just give up because it's too hard, or have genuine mental blocks that prevent them from improving despite the time they put into it. All you have to do is think of Artosis or Idra to see how damaging it can be when you think the game is built against you and you're stuck in one way of playing. Artosis probably could have become a pro and didn't not for lack of talent or effort, but because he couldn't get over the walls he built for himself. | ||
|
accordion
Canada58 Posts
On October 21 2011 09:39 lastshadow wrote:Everyone would love to be a millionaire off being an NFL player, but life's not fair, and everyone lies when they say "you can be whatever you want". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outliers_(book) You should read something or do some research before you just decide to claim your opinions as facts. Technically, yes, everyone could be an NFL player, assuming they've been practicing since childhood (accumulating to 10000+ hours). Sure it takes the right opportunities coming around for those skills to shine, but yes it is possible. No, it is not possible to just decide you're going to play in the NFL at 21 and just start practicing football everyday. Back to what you just previously said though, so again going back to my original point, why is it then that all these players spending countless hours watching replays/vod's/tournaments/streams/playing, still can not achieve even low masters? There's a big difference between playing the game casually for fun and actively learning to play the game. | ||
|
John Madden
American Samoa894 Posts
| ||
|
VPCursed
1044 Posts
On October 21 2011 10:01 Chef wrote: Maybe:
BW is extremely competitive no doubt not everyone can be the best, but there's a plethora more factors than the magical idea of inherent talent. And in SC2 basically all you need to become a top pro is the drive and the RTS background since there is still so little genuine competition and no one is really practicing like they should. There's a large talent controversy debate to be had, but it's more effective to read studies yourself. Suffice it to say that people are born different, but that biological differences aren't the greatest factor in determining competitive success in many activities. "HEY LOOK XELLOSES BRAIN LOOKS DIFFERENT WHEN HE PLAYS SC" just screams you're a dumb ass who doesn't know how to apply information. You have a huge ego. You got banned from this community for cheating in BW because you weren't good enough to actually compete, and now you wanna tell people how talented you are for being ok at sc2??? OKTHX. I normally forgive and forget people who cheat and then try to play legitimately, but you are making a really dumb argument and I think your are letting your self-inflated views of your skill infect your judgement. I would personally assume that in most actually competitive activities people just give up because it's too hard, or have genuine mental blocks that prevent them from improving despite the time they put into it. All you have to do is think of Artosis or Idra to see how damaging it can be when you think the game is built against you and you're stuck in one way of playing. Artosis probably could have become a pro and didn't not for lack of talent or effort, but because he couldn't get over the walls he built for himself. I think idra is overcoming this barrier, hes playing so fucking good lately. I recall a month or so back EG said they were working on there players mindsets. | ||
|
lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
On October 21 2011 10:01 Chef wrote: Maybe:
BW is extremely competitive no doubt not everyone can be the best, but there's a plethora more factors than the magical idea of inherent talent. And in SC2 basically all you need to become a top pro is the drive and the RTS background since there is still so little genuine competition and no one is really practicing like they should. There's a large talent controversy debate to be had, but it's more effective to read studies yourself. Suffice it to say that people are born different, but that biological differences aren't the greatest factor in determining competitive success in many activities. "HEY LOOK XELLOSES BRAIN LOOKS DIFFERENT WHEN HE PLAYS SC" just screams you're a dumb ass who doesn't know how to apply information. You have a huge ego. You got banned from this community for cheating in BW because you weren't good enough to actually compete, and now you wanna tell people how talented you are for being ok at sc2??? OKTHX. I normally forgive and forget people who cheat and then try to play legitimately, but you are making a really dumb argument and I think your are letting your self-inflated views of your skill infect your judgement. I would personally assume that in most actually competitive activities people just give up because it's too hard, or have genuine mental blocks that prevent them from improving despite the time they put into it. All you have to do is think of Artosis or Idra to see how damaging it can be when you think the game is built against you and you're stuck in one way of playing. Artosis probably could have become a pro and didn't not for lack of talent or effort, but because he couldn't get over the walls he built for himself. Your list implies everything I just said. Why is it some people don't need RTS backround(I listed Minigun/Oasis as examples)? Why is it some people don't need to know how to practice, but rather learn on their own? Why should they have to be exposed, when others have not needed it? Your comments alone prove my point, that some people simply are different and able to improve faster without the need for aid. Your mindset thing yes, I would agree it can hold back certain people, but not to the extent of making their brain completely ignore fundamental basic mechanics of Starcraft, if they actually understood strategy etc. I also don't see how you seem to think I'm bragging about anything sc2 related? If I was bragging, am I not also bragging for the other of thousands of players able to achieve GM or Masters? No. I said when that crossroad is met, then you have a decision to make, but not everyone can make that crossroad. I would assume there is another crossroad to be met once you're at the top (A-teamers in sc1, and Code S-S(mvp/nestea/etc) in sc2)). However I've never been at that level, and thus don't know what it's like, but I hope to achieve it, but I won't know if I can until I try, because I honestly don't know. This is what I was saying. If I don't stumble upon it, I won't achieve it. I can't just work towards being that way and make it happen, it's just a goal, that I hope I am capable of achieving, but again, am completely unsure. This just comes down to the talent vs hardwork ethic, which I again fallback to my statements about the "exceptions". What if I said this - If you put 100 geniuses' in a room, is not 1 of them the smartest genius? Does that not make them TECHNICALLY more capable to achieve higher results than the others can? Given they try just as hard? It's not saying the other "geniuses" can not compete or do well, it's simply saying they don't have the same advantage. In my sc2 analogy, "genius" is "talent". Yes hard work can probably make you GOOD at sc2, I said that in the beginning of this video. However, you do need something EXTRA (talent) to become a Flash or Jaedong. Sorry if maybe people are interpreting my comments wrong, I understand fully this is just my opinion, and I was just trying to give an answer to the people that were asking. Like all debates, there are agreements and disgagreements :D, so this is to be expected. EDIT - about the IdrA comment, this is perfect. Yes, everyone gets into "mental blocks", it does take work to overcome the mental block, often times people give up, so I guess it sort of is a "talent" as well to push through the adversity. IdrA surely is overcoming his emotional problems in game, and it's also showing, so that's great for him. | ||
|
VPCursed
1044 Posts
On October 21 2011 11:51 lastshadow wrote: Your list implies everything I just said. Why is it some people don't need RTS backround(I listed Minigun/Oasis as examples)? Why is it some people don't need to know how to practice, but rather learn on their own? Why should they have to be exposed, when others have not needed it? Your comments alone prove my point, that some people simply are different and able to improve faster without the need for aid. Your mindset thing yes, I would agree it can hold back certain people, but not to the extent of making their brain completely ignore fundamental basic mechanics of Starcraft, if they actually understood strategy etc. I also don't see how you seem to think I'm bragging about anything sc2 related? If I was bragging, am I not also bragging for the other of thousands of players able to achieve GM or Masters? No. I said when that crossroad is met, then you have a decision to make, but not everyone can make that crossroad. I would assume there is another crossroad to be met once you're at the top (A-teamers in sc1, and Code S-S(mvp/nestea/etc) in sc2)). However I've never been at that level, and thus don't know what it's like, but I hope to achieve it, but I won't know if I can until I try, because I honestly don't know. This is what I was saying. If I don't stumble upon it, I won't achieve it. I can't just work towards being that way and make it happen, it's just a goal, that I hope I am capable of achieving, but again, am completely unsure. This just comes down to the talent vs hardwork ethic, which I again fallback to my statements about the "exceptions". What if I said this - If you put 100 geniuses' in a room, is not 1 of them the smartest genius? Does that not make them TECHNICALLY more capable to achieve higher results than the others can? Given they try just as hard? It's not saying the other "geniuses" can not compete or do well, it's simply saying they don't have the same advantage. In my sc2 analogy, "genius" is "talent". Yes hard work can probably make you GOOD at sc2, I said that in the beginning of this video. However, you do need something EXTRA (talent) to become a Flash or Jaedong. Sorry if maybe people are interpreting my comments wrong, I understand fully this is just my opinion, and I was just trying to give an answer to the people that were asking. Like all debates, there are agreements and disgagreements :D, so this is to be expected. EDIT - about the IdrA comment, this is perfect. Yes, everyone gets into "mental blocks", it does take work to overcome the mental block, often times people give up, so I guess it sort of is a "talent" as well to push through the adversity. IdrA surely is overcoming his emotional problems in game, and it's also showing, so that's great for him. I know minigun, that guy played his fucking ass off. literally, thousands and thousands upon more thousands of games and coming from an rts background... i still beat him with 1/1000th of the games hes played, hes still really good, But id expect anyone could achieve what he has with the effort. | ||
|
lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
| ||
|
NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
| ||
|
LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
Like to a point I would improve but I would plateau much faster than others and wouldn't really be able to overcome obstacles or excel at "x" activity. great vlogs btw Nick I watched this whole one, Slog such a troll, >_>; glad your doing well in korea.  | ||
| ||
