Answering all the "Can I be a progamer?" ?'s - Page 3

On October 21 2011 08:20 VPCursed wrote:
if u have the passion, you're limitless to what u can achieve. You said your self jaedong,flash,bisu practice more then anyone.. and it shows, thats passion.
if you truly love this game, and enjoy everything from losing, to competition, to stress.. with the proper coaching, I believe there's no doubt you can reach the higer tier of sc
also, in regards to the high activity in certain areas of the brain.
casuals and pros are going to use different areas of the brain.. casuals will be using the creative part of there brain more often, while pros will be working purely from instinct/memory

On October 21 2011 08:30 lastshadow wrote:
And about your "if you have the passion, you're limitless" why has there not been another bruce lee, michael jordan, mickey mantle, larry bird, or anyone along those lines? They come around maybe 1x a decade or 1x a generation.

On October 21 2011 08:30 lastshadow wrote:


Just because they work harder (only a few extra hours if that, in fact Jaedong plays much more than Flash/Bisu (+3hrs more rumored i think?) and rarely takes breaks even on vacations. Does not mean they're not more talented.

And about your "if you have the passion, you're limitless" why has there not been another bruce lee, michael jordan, mickey mantle, larry bird, or anyone along those lines? They come around maybe 1x a decade or 1x a generation.

why is it then that all these players spending countless hours watching replays/vod's/tournaments/streams/playing, still can not achieve even low masters?

On October 21 2011 09:39 lastshadow wrote:Everyone would love to be a millionaire off being an NFL player, but life's not fair, and everyone lies when they say "you can be whatever you want".

Back to what you just previously said though, so again going back to my original point, why is it then that all these players spending countless hours watching replays/vod's/tournaments/streams/playing, still can not achieve even low masters?

On October 21 2011 10:01 Chef wrote:

Maybe:

• They don't have a long background in competitive RTS
  
• They lack correct motivational factors in their life / have bad attitude and mindset
  
• Have poorly developed coping skills with stressful lifestyles
  
• Don't know the right players
  
• Play in ways that do not help them improve
  
• Don't know how to improve
  
• Aren't actually as motivated to compete as you might think
  
• Play for fun
  
• Are kids
  
• Haven't been exposed to good learning skills or independent learning strategies

BW is extremely competitive no doubt not everyone can be the best, but there's a plethora more factors than the magical idea of inherent talent. And in SC2 basically all you need to become a top pro is the drive and the RTS background since there is still so little genuine competition and no one is really practicing like they should.

There's a large talent controversy debate to be had, but it's more effective to read studies yourself. Suffice it to say that people are born different, but that biological differences aren't the greatest factor in determining competitive success in many activities. "HEY LOOK XELLOSES BRAIN LOOKS DIFFERENT WHEN HE PLAYS SC" just screams you're a dumb ass who doesn't know how to apply information. You have a huge ego. You got banned from this community for cheating in BW because you weren't good enough to actually compete, and now you wanna tell people how talented you are for being ok at sc2??? OKTHX. I normally forgive and forget people who cheat and then try to play legitimately, but you are making a really dumb argument and I think your are letting your self-inflated views of your skill infect your judgement.

I would personally assume that in most actually competitive activities people just give up because it's too hard, or have genuine mental blocks that prevent them from improving despite the time they put into it. All you have to do is think of Artosis or Idra to see how damaging it can be when you think the game is built against you and you're stuck in one way of playing. Artosis probably could have become a pro and didn't not for lack of talent or effort, but because he couldn't get over the walls he built for himself.

On October 21 2011 10:01 Chef wrote:

Maybe:

• They don't have a long background in competitive RTS
  
• They lack correct motivational factors in their life / have bad attitude and mindset
  
• Have poorly developed coping skills with stressful lifestyles
  
• Don't know the right players
  
• Play in ways that do not help them improve
  
• Don't know how to improve
  
• Aren't actually as motivated to compete as you might think
  
• Play for fun
  
• Are kids
  
• Haven't been exposed to good learning skills or independent learning strategies

BW is extremely competitive no doubt not everyone can be the best, but there's a plethora more factors than the magical idea of inherent talent. And in SC2 basically all you need to become a top pro is the drive and the RTS background since there is still so little genuine competition and no one is really practicing like they should.

There's a large talent controversy debate to be had, but it's more effective to read studies yourself. Suffice it to say that people are born different, but that biological differences aren't the greatest factor in determining competitive success in many activities. "HEY LOOK XELLOSES BRAIN LOOKS DIFFERENT WHEN HE PLAYS SC" just screams you're a dumb ass who doesn't know how to apply information. You have a huge ego. You got banned from this community for cheating in BW because you weren't good enough to actually compete, and now you wanna tell people how talented you are for being ok at sc2??? OKTHX. I normally forgive and forget people who cheat and then try to play legitimately, but you are making a really dumb argument and I think your are letting your self-inflated views of your skill infect your judgement.

I would personally assume that in most actually competitive activities people just give up because it's too hard, or have genuine mental blocks that prevent them from improving despite the time they put into it. All you have to do is think of Artosis or Idra to see how damaging it can be when you think the game is built against you and you're stuck in one way of playing. Artosis probably could have become a pro and didn't not for lack of talent or effort, but because he couldn't get over the walls he built for himself.

On October 21 2011 11:51 lastshadow wrote:



Your list implies everything I just said. Why is it some people don't need RTS backround(I listed Minigun/Oasis as examples)? Why is it some people don't need to know how to practice, but rather learn on their own? Why should they have to be exposed, when others have not needed it? Your comments alone prove my point, that some people simply are different and able to improve faster without the need for aid.

Your mindset thing yes, I would agree it can hold back certain people, but not to the extent of making their brain completely ignore fundamental basic mechanics of Starcraft, if they actually understood strategy etc.

I also don't see how you seem to think I'm bragging about anything sc2 related? If I was bragging, am I not also bragging for the other of thousands of players able to achieve GM or Masters? No. I said when that crossroad is met, then you have a decision to make, but not everyone can make that crossroad. I would assume there is another crossroad to be met once you're at the top (A-teamers in sc1, and Code S-S(mvp/nestea/etc) in sc2)). However I've never been at that level, and thus don't know what it's like, but I hope to achieve it, but I won't know if I can until I try, because I honestly don't know. This is what I was saying. If I don't stumble upon it, I won't achieve it. I can't just work towards being that way and make it happen, it's just a goal, that I hope I am capable of achieving, but again, am completely unsure.

This just comes down to the talent vs hardwork ethic, which I again fallback to my statements about the "exceptions". What if I said this - If you put 100 geniuses' in a room, is not 1 of them the smartest genius? Does that not make them TECHNICALLY more capable to achieve higher results than the others can? Given they try just as hard? It's not saying the other "geniuses" can not compete or do well, it's simply saying they don't have the same advantage. In my sc2 analogy, "genius" is "talent".

Yes hard work can probably make you GOOD at sc2, I said that in the beginning of this video. However, you do need something EXTRA (talent) to become a Flash or Jaedong.

Sorry if maybe people are interpreting my comments wrong, I understand fully this is just my opinion, and I was just trying to give an answer to the people that were asking. Like all debates, there are agreements and disgagreements :D, so this is to be expected.


EDIT - about the IdrA comment, this is perfect. Yes, everyone gets into "mental blocks", it does take work to overcome the mental block, often times people give up, so I guess it sort of is a "talent" as well to push through the adversity. IdrA surely is overcoming his emotional problems in game, and it's also showing, so that's great for him.