• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:54
CEST 02:54
KST 09:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach0[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach StarCraft Human 'N' AI League
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12032 users

Math Puzzle(s)

Blogs > sidr
Post a Reply
Normal
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
September 05 2011 21:19 GMT
#1
Hey all, I have two somewhat similar math puzzles for those interested:

1) Let R be a rectangle. Suppose R can be divided into rectangles (non-overlapping except on edges) such that each rectangle has at least one rational side length. Show R has at least one rational side length.

2) Let R be a rectangle with sides a,b. Suppose R can be divided into squares (non-overlapping except on edges). Show that a/b is rational.

Pictures: + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Enjoy.

micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24799 Posts
September 05 2011 21:21 GMT
#2
Gar.... I hate math puzzles that you can't work on unless you studied higher math... XD

I have no idea how to show if things are or are not rational ._.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-05 21:30:32
September 05 2011 21:29 GMT
#3
well there are "standard" approaches in some cases, but it wouldn't be much of a puzzle if first instincts existed/worked.

Here's a quick rundown of the fact that Sqrt(2) is irrational if you want to see one such technique:
+ Show Spoiler +
Suppose Sqrt(2) = a/b with a, b integers. We may assume a and b have no common prime factors (lowest terms). We have (b Sqrt(2)) = a or, after squaring both sides, 2b^2 = a^2. Hence, a^2 is even. By prime factorization, a must be even, so a = 2c for some integer c. Now we have 2 b^2 = (2c)^2 = 4c^2, so cancelling 2's we have b^2 = 2 c^2. Hence, b must also be even, contradicting that a/b was in lowest terms. Thus, Sqrt(2) must be irrational.
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-05 21:30:59
September 05 2011 21:30 GMT
#4
On September 06 2011 06:21 micronesia wrote:
Gar.... I hate math puzzles that you can't work on unless you studied higher math... XD

I have no idea how to show if things are or are not rational ._.


a number n is rational if and only if it can be expressed as n = p/q, for some integers p and q. so if you can prove that such a p and q must exist, you prove the number is rational; conversely, if you prove that such a p and q cannot exist, you prove the number is irrational.
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
September 05 2011 21:30 GMT
#5
No idea, don't have the necessary skills to solve either of them.
Alternate problem everyone can relate to. Using dollars, half dollars, quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies whats the smallest value of k that is not convertible where being convertible means it is possible to find a collection of k coins adding up to a dollar. Ex: 1 is convertible because we just use the dollar, 2 is also convertible because 2 half dollars etc.. Have fun, I'll post the solution if theres interest
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
September 05 2011 21:39 GMT
#6
On September 06 2011 06:30 n.DieJokes wrote:
No idea, don't have the necessary skills to solve either of them.
Alternate problem everyone can relate to. Using dollars, half dollars, quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies whats the smallest value of k that is not convertible where being convertible means it is possible to find a collection of k coins adding up to a dollar. Ex: 1 is convertible because we just use the dollar, 2 is also convertible because 2 half dollars etc.. Have fun, I'll post the solution if theres interest

101?
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-05 21:41:05
September 05 2011 21:40 GMT
#7
On September 06 2011 06:39 TehTemplar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 06:30 n.DieJokes wrote:
No idea, don't have the necessary skills to solve either of them.
Alternate problem everyone can relate to. Using dollars, half dollars, quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies whats the smallest value of k that is not convertible where being convertible means it is possible to find a collection of k coins adding up to a dollar. Ex: 1 is convertible because we just use the dollar, 2 is also convertible because 2 half dollars etc.. Have fun, I'll post the solution if theres interest

101?

You can go smaller + Show Spoiler +
for example, does 99 work?
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-05 21:42:50
September 05 2011 21:41 GMT
#8
1.
+ Show Spoiler +

Here's an outline for how I would prove this if I had time to fill in the details.

Assume a configuration of rectangles such that each has at least one rational side. Call the set of all horizontal rational sides H, and the set of all vertical rational sides V.
Show that there must be a subset of either H or V such that the length of the sides add up to a multiple of the length of R's horizontal or vertical side [this is the nontrivial part].
Since the sum of rational numbers must be rational, and a multiple of a rational number must be rational, this implies that at least one of R's sides must be rational.
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
September 05 2011 21:51 GMT
#9
On September 06 2011 06:30 n.DieJokes wrote:
No idea, don't have the necessary skills to solve either of them.
Alternate problem everyone can relate to. Using dollars, half dollars, quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies whats the smallest value of k that is not convertible where being convertible means it is possible to find a collection of k coins adding up to a dollar. Ex: 1 is convertible because we just use the dollar, 2 is also convertible because 2 half dollars etc.. Have fun, I'll post the solution if theres interest


I'd just write a program to solve this one... I can't think of a way to derive an analytical solution for k.
THE_DOMINATOR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States309 Posts
September 05 2011 21:53 GMT
#10
Here's some good old fashion logic for you.

1) Let R be divided into 2 equal rectangles. that leaves you with with x/2+x/2 =x where x/2 is the rational side of an inner rectangle. The sum of rational numbers will always be rational.

2) let c=a/b =>c is rational. c=a/b =>a/b is rational just restating the definition
DOMINATION
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
September 05 2011 21:57 GMT
#11
On September 06 2011 06:53 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
Here's some good old fashion logic for you.

1) Let R be divided into 2 equal rectangles. that leaves you with with x/2+x/2 =x where x/2 is the rational side of an inner rectangle. The sum of rational numbers will always be rational.


This is true in the case where R can be subdivided into 2 equal rectangles. But in the general case R can be subdivided into N rectangles with possibly different sizes.

I.e., you can't choose the exact configuration of inside rectangles. If you could, an even simpler solution than the one you gave would say there is exactly one rectangle inside R with the same dimensions as R, which must have at least one rational side so R has at least one rational side.
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
September 05 2011 22:15 GMT
#12
For n.DieJokes' puzzle:

+ Show Spoiler +
I claim 77 is the lowest nonconvertible denomination.

First, let's look at what only nickels and pennies get us:
suppose we have n nickels and p pennies adding to 100. Then, 5n + p = 100, so p = 100 - 5n. In this case, we have n + p = 100 - 4n coins, so using only nickels and pennies we see every number in {100, 96, 92, ..., 20} is convertible.

Now, given a number of this form, say x, let's try to show x+1, x+2, and x+3 are convertible. If we have x = 100 - 4n, we can make x+3 by changing 1 nickel for 5 pennies (+4 coins) and changing 2 nickels for 1 dime (-1 coins). To make x+2, we can change 1 nickel for 5 pennies (+4 coins) and 4 nickels for 2 dimes (-2 coins). To make x+1, we can change 1 nickel for 5 pennies (+4 coins) and 6 nickels for 3 dimes (-2 coins). For this all to work, we need n to be at least 7. This always works for such n though, so {20, 21, ..., 100-4(7)} contains only convertible numbers. 100-4(7) = 72. The above process gives us 74 and 75, so we need to create 73, which is 3 dimes + 70 pennies. Hence, assuming 1,...,19 are all convertible, then the smallest possibly nonconvertible number is 77.

We wish to find 77 coins which total 100. Using nickels and pennies only this is impossible as shown above, and if we use a quarter we will not be able to use all 77 coins as 100-25=75 which is less than 77-1=76. Suppose we have 1 dime. Then, we want to make 90 out of 76 nickels and pennies, so we wish to solve 5n+p=90 and n+p=76 simultaneously. This gives p = 90-5n so n+p=90-4n=76, so 4n=14 which is impossible. Now, if we have 2 dimes, we wish to make 80 out of 75 nickels and pennies. Our equations are n+p=75 and 5n+p=80, so p=80-5n and hence n+(80-5n)=80-4n=75, so 4n=5 which is impossible. With 3 dimes, we need to make 70 out of more than 70 coins, which is impossible, so 77 is not convertible.

Finally, we need to demonstrate 1,...,19 are all convertible. We have:
1. 100
2. 2(50)
3. 50 + 2(25)
4. 4(25)
5. 50 + 25 + 2(10) + 5
6. 50 + 25 + 10 + 3(5)
7. 50 + 25 + 5(5)
8. 50 + 3(10) + 4(5)
9. 50 + 2(10) + 6(5)
10. 50 + 10 + 8(5)
11. 50 + 10(5)
12. 50 + 3(10) + 3(5) + 5(1)
13. 50 + 2(10) + 5(5) + 5(1)
14. 50 + 10 + 7(5) + 5(1)
15. 50 + 9(5) + 5(1)
16. 50 + 3(10) + 2(5) + 10(1)
17. 50 + 2(10) + 4(5) + 10(1)
18. 50 + 10 + 6(5) + 10(1)
19. 50 + 8(5) + 10(1)
blankspace
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States292 Posts
September 05 2011 22:18 GMT
#13
1) Nice problem, kinda tricky

Let's place the rectangle in the coordinate plane and assume the bottom left corner is (0,0).

Call a vertex A if it has rational coordinates, B otherwise.

Fact: A rectangle can't have an odd number of A vertexes (you may verify this yourself).

Now let's count how many A vertexes and B vertexes R has. We do this by summing over all inner rectangles and removing the shared points. Note that only the corner vertexes are not shared by some rectangle, and each vertex is shared by either two or four rectangles.

Each rectangle r_i contributes a_i and b_i where a_i and b_i are even. Hence the number of corner vertexes is: sum(a_i) - (even #shared A vertexes) in A, and sum(b_i) - (even #shared B vertexes) in B.

This implies that R either has 4 A vertexes (so we're done) or 2 A vertexes (we're also done).
Hello friends
TabyLing
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia69 Posts
September 05 2011 22:36 GMT
#14
+ Show Spoiler +

rational + rational = rational
irational +rational = irational
irational + irational = irational (nonzero positive numbers)
if a is irrational and made up of rectangles with n parallel sides rational and m irrational then b can't exist, as you will have layers of rational numbers added and layers of irrational numbers added and they must = the same number. all the rational numbers must be parallel with each other and all the irrational numbers must be in parallel, so the rectangle R must have a rational side.

if the rectangle can be broken into squares you can break a and b up into smaller units with a common factor (since they are squares) say c, so
a = mc and b = nc so a/b = mc/nc = m/n = rational number.
in the particular picture example a = 3c and b = a + 2c = 3c +2c = 5c
so a/b = 3c/5c = 3/5
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-05 22:47:51
September 05 2011 22:44 GMT
#15
blankspace:

+ Show Spoiler +
Correct.

If anyone wants to keep thinking about this problem, there are at least two other nice solutions that I know of (three if you count one that's related to the way you did it).


Tabyling:

+ Show Spoiler +
irrational + irrational may be rational, consider (3-Sqrt(2)) + Sqrt(2) = 3. For 2 it's unclear that m and n are integers.
THE_DOMINATOR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States309 Posts
September 05 2011 23:06 GMT
#16
On September 06 2011 06:57 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 06:53 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
Here's some good old fashion logic for you.

1) Let R be divided into 2 equal rectangles. that leaves you with with x/2+x/2 =x where x/2 is the rational side of an inner rectangle. The sum of rational numbers will always be rational.


This is true in the case where R can be subdivided into 2 equal rectangles. But in the general case R can be subdivided into N rectangles with possibly different sizes.

I.e., you can't choose the exact configuration of inside rectangles. If you could, an even simpler solution than the one you gave would say there is exactly one rectangle inside R with the same dimensions as R, which must have at least one rational side so R has at least one rational side.


Then the question is poorly constructed. If R can be subdivided into N rectangles, 2 is part of the set N. Even so the general principle still applies.
DOMINATION
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
September 05 2011 23:10 GMT
#17
On September 06 2011 08:06 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 06:57 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
On September 06 2011 06:53 THE_DOMINATOR wrote:
Here's some good old fashion logic for you.

1) Let R be divided into 2 equal rectangles. that leaves you with with x/2+x/2 =x where x/2 is the rational side of an inner rectangle. The sum of rational numbers will always be rational.


This is true in the case where R can be subdivided into 2 equal rectangles. But in the general case R can be subdivided into N rectangles with possibly different sizes.

I.e., you can't choose the exact configuration of inside rectangles. If you could, an even simpler solution than the one you gave would say there is exactly one rectangle inside R with the same dimensions as R, which must have at least one rational side so R has at least one rational side.


Then the question is poorly constructed. If R can be subdivided into N rectangles, 2 is part of the set N. Even so the general principle still applies.


The question is not poorly constructed; all that it says is that such a subdivision exists. How many rectangles this subdivision has is unknown.
TabyLing
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia69 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 00:41:09
September 06 2011 00:38 GMT
#18
On September 06 2011 07:44 sidr wrote:


Tabyling:

+ Show Spoiler +
irrational + irrational may be rational, consider (3-Sqrt(2)) + Sqrt(2) = 3. For 2 it's unclear that m and n are integers.

didnt read properly edit
MrDonkeyBong
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada103 Posts
September 06 2011 00:54 GMT
#19
On September 06 2011 06:21 micronesia wrote:
Gar.... I hate math puzzles that you can't work on unless you studied higher math... XD

I have no idea how to show if things are or are not rational ._.

We did rational numbers last year (9th grade).

I think the curriculum changed on you
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." -- Carl Sagan
blankspace
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States292 Posts
September 06 2011 01:32 GMT
#20
lol well I remember learning what a rational number was early in elementary school, but most people don't encounter proofs about irrationality unless they decide to study more math. Although basic facts like rational+rational = rational, rational + irrational = irrational, rational*irrational = irrational etc are likely all u need in these puzzles.
Hello friends
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
September 06 2011 01:51 GMT
#21
+ Show Spoiler +
2) Let's use the same coordinates as blankspace:

Label all the vertices of the squares in the subdivision of the rectangle as v_0,v_1,v_2,...,v_n.

Consider the 45 degree line passing through (0,0) and let P be the projection map onto this line.
Let w_i denote P(v_i).

The image of P is a 1-dimensional real vector space which inherits a norm from the copy of the plane it sits in.

We have marked some elements w_i in this vector space. WLOG we can order these so that they weakly increase in norm.

In particular:
1) w_0 refers to 0 (corresponding to the lower-left corner of the rectangle)
2) w_n refers to the element with largest norm (corresponding to the upper-right corner)

The key is to note that every w_i for 0<i<n exists as the average of two other w_j.

It follows by induction on norm that the span of the w_i is a 1-dimensional Q-subspace of the image of P considered as a Q-vector space.

That should do it I believe...
starleague.mit.edu
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24799 Posts
September 06 2011 01:59 GMT
#22
On September 06 2011 09:54 MrDonkeyBong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 06:21 micronesia wrote:
Gar.... I hate math puzzles that you can't work on unless you studied higher math... XD

I have no idea how to show if things are or are not rational ._.

We did rational numbers last year (9th grade).

I think the curriculum changed on you

Um, I learned what a rational number is also. I'm talking about using proofs to show whether or not numbers will be rational in various situations.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
September 06 2011 03:43 GMT
#23
Muirhead:

+ Show Spoiler +
I like the idea but I'm not sure I follow the induction
Muirhead
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States557 Posts
September 06 2011 04:14 GMT
#24
On September 06 2011 12:43 sidr wrote:
Muirhead:

+ Show Spoiler +
I like the idea but I'm not sure I follow the induction


Nice puzzle . Sorry I explain everything awkwardly...
maybe later I try to motivate it... I think it's always a good exercise to refine a proof or think why one does things, especially with a good problem like this

For now though the induction. Let's write it as lemma:

+ Show Spoiler +
We are given a finite collection of real numbers which satisfies:
(1) 0 is its minimum member
(2) Each member strictly between 0 and the maximum member is the average of two other members.

I claim each member of the collection is a nonnegative rational multiple of the maximum member.

For this, it suffices to prove that each non-maximal member is a nonnegative rational combination of strictly larger members.

Suppose not. Then there is a smallest counterexample A. A is not 0, since 0 is a nonnegative rational combination of larger guys trivially. Thus, A is the average of two other members. Writing A as this average we can apply the minimality of A to massage the lower member of this average into a nonnegative rational linear combination of guys A or larger.

Since the part of this combination that is not a multiple of A is strictly positive, we cannot completely cancel out A and so have a contradiction.
starleague.mit.edu
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
September 06 2011 05:29 GMT
#25
I have an idea...

For solving number 2) in the OP, say you already have a square (which is a rectangle by definition), then you satisfy the requirement (a/b is rational) trivially.

Take our rectangle with side lengths a and b with a < b. Observe the smallest square that is created when we partition our rectangle into squares. Call any side of this square s. I claim that there necessarily exists another square (created from our partitions) that has side of ms where m is some positive integer. I also claim that this square will be the next to smallest square. *

Let's suppose for now that my claim is true. Then we can recursively apply this fact to the next higher up square. For example, we know there exists a square with side ms. If this square is not the biggest square, then there exists another square with side mns, where n is some positive integer. We can keep doing this until every square is classified as such.

Now, when such a feat is accomplished, observe the lengths of a and b. Both of these lengths will necessarily be some multiple of s. For example we would expect something like b = s + 2ms + mns. Thus we can factor out an s, and when we divide we will be left over with all the m and n which are positive integers. Thus regardless of the rationality of s, a/b is rational.

* I am relatively certain my claim holds true, but I'm still working on the proof. The idea I have to verify my claim is with a proof by contradiction. If there did not exist another square with side of ms then it would be impossible to construct a rectangle using only squares. If this plan fails then I have another idea for a proof by contradiction which involves verifying that the area of all the squares equals the area of the whole rectangle. If there did not exist a side with length ms then the areas won't ever equal.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
fasdaf
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
138 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-06 15:46:29
September 06 2011 15:46 GMT
#26
On September 06 2011 14:29 Foolishness wrote:
Take our rectangle with side lengths a and b with a < b. Observe the smallest square that is created when we partition our rectangle into squares. Call any side of this square s. I claim that there necessarily exists another square (created from our partitions) that has side of ms where m is some positive integer. I also claim that this square will be the next to smallest square. *

This is not true. Consider a 6x7 rectangle split into one 4x4, two 3x3, and two 2x2 squares.

Just something I noticed related to (2): the Euclidean algorithm provides an easy way to partition any rectangle with rational sides into squares.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
September 06 2011 17:03 GMT
#27
On September 07 2011 00:46 fasdaf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2011 14:29 Foolishness wrote:
Take our rectangle with side lengths a and b with a < b. Observe the smallest square that is created when we partition our rectangle into squares. Call any side of this square s. I claim that there necessarily exists another square (created from our partitions) that has side of ms where m is some positive integer. I also claim that this square will be the next to smallest square. *

This is not true. Consider a 6x7 rectangle split into one 4x4, two 3x3, and two 2x2 squares.

Just something I noticed related to (2): the Euclidean algorithm provides an easy way to partition any rectangle with rational sides into squares.

Okay. Let me modify. Take the smallest square that is created by our partition and take the largest square created by our partition, and call the sides of these squares s and L respectively. I claim that the sides all other squares in the partition can be represented as a convex combination of s and L.

The rest of the proof should work out to be the same, although I may need to claim that s and L are both irrational or both rational.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
blankspace
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States292 Posts
September 06 2011 19:09 GMT
#28
ooh nice solution muirhead
Hello friends
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
September 06 2011 19:15 GMT
#29
m-m-math puzzles?....

I'm having flashbacks...

AARAARAHAGHHHAHGAHAHH E+ IN MATH OH GOD IM SO DISSAPOINTED IN MYSELF I HAVE TO END IT NOW AARGHAAAAHAHAAAAAh....

No... no math puzzles... I would like to forget
memes are a dish best served dank
sidr
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States55 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 02:48:47
September 07 2011 02:47 GMT
#30
Good stuff Muirhead.

For anyone interested, here is a different solution to each puzzle:

1. + Show Spoiler +
Orient the rectangle so that its sides are parallel with the x and y axes. Without loss of generality each smaller rectangle has an integer side length (scale by LCM of denominators). Then, consider Integral(exp(2*Pi*i*(x+y)) dx dy). This is 0 over a rectangle if and only if the rectangle has an integer side length. By additivity of the integral, we are done.


2. + Show Spoiler +
Suppose the rectangle has side lengths 1,a with a irrational. We show a tiling of squares leads to a contradiction.

Suppose we have a tiling of squares and extend each line segment to the edges, creating a rectangular grid of our rectangle. Consider the set S={x: x is the side length of some rectangle in our rectangular grid}. Consider the vector space V over Q generated by S. As a is irrational, we may find a basis {1,a,b3,...,bk}. Define a linear functional f (a linear map from V to Q) by f(1) = 1, f(a) = -1, and f(bi) = 0 for i in {3,...,k}. Finally, define an "area" function on our subrectangles T by g(T)=f(c)f(d), where c, d are the side lengths of T. Then, note g is additive by linearity of f and g(S) is nonnegative for any square S, but g(R) = -1.
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSTL: Grand Finals
CranKy Ducklings82
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
23:00
OSC Masters Cup #151 Qualifier
davetesta35
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 144
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 10658
White-Ra 350
Dota 2
monkeys_forever787
NeuroSwarm78
League of Legends
Doublelift5470
JimRising 673
Counter-Strike
fl0m5712
minikerr24
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox780
AZ_Axe168
Other Games
summit1g9032
Maynarde198
KnowMe194
ArmadaUGS77
Mew2King29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick917
BasetradeTV181
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 6
[ Show 9 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 69
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
9h 6m
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
10h 6m
Monday Night Weeklies
15h 6m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 9h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 9h
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
1d 23h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.