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An Ethics/Moral Question

Blogs > DarkOptik
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DarkOptik
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
452 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 03:08:28
September 02 2011 02:00 GMT
#1
Very simple.

So say there is a village of 100 anonymous people held hostage. You have the ability to save those one hundred people, but in order to do so, you have to kill your best friend.


Poll: Would you kill your best friend?

No (42)
 
70%

Yes (18)
 
30%

60 total votes

Your vote: Would you kill your best friend?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



Say there is a village of 100 anonymous people held hostage. You have the ability to save those one hundred people, but in order to do so, you have to kill one anonymous person.

Poll: Would you kill him/her?

Yes (43)
 
74%

No (15)
 
26%

58 total votes

Your vote: Would you kill him/her?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



Why did you choose the answer you chose?

EDIT: For clarification purposes, it's a very strict dichotomy: either you save your best friend and 100 people die, or you kill your best friend and save 100 lives. The same goes for the other question.

+ Show Spoiler +
My brother is going through medical school interviews right now, and he posed this question to me a few hours ago. We ended up getting into a heated debate and I said some things he took a lot of offense to and I deeply regret. I shortly found out that entire family disagrees with what I think, but I am incapable of understanding why that is. I might post my opinion later, but for now, I don't want to influence anyone's thoughts. This is actually very distressing to me, despite the fact that I know there isn't a black and white angle to this, I still feel like there is a very key part that I'm completely missing. At least I hope there is, because otherwise it means I'm a complete lunatic because I can't even begin to understand the other side.


EDIT2:

+ Show Spoiler +
Since this has already generated enough results I'm going to post the issue I had with it...

What Sultan.P said is the exact dichotomy I had with my brother; he also refused to play God (as it were) and said that it is impossible for him to judge the worthiness of human life, while I was on the same side as the purported Russian and agreed with him: essentially, that the needs of the many outweigh the few.

However, I've come to realize that simple numbers is an overly simplistic way to quantify something like human life, and that it simply does not do justice to something that is so heavy. An interesting thought that I thought about was in-line with the Russian's: if one healthy individual can save five lives by donating all his organs, then why do we not simply kill the healthy individual and take his organs? Theoretically speaking that seems to be the same issue: after all, in both scenarios we're exchanging the life of one normal person for that of many in peril. Putting things into perspective though, the situation I just mentioned many would consider morally evil (I do myself as well).

Yet, that being said, if I had to make a choice in this scenario, no matter what, I inevitably gravitate to the killing of both my best friend and the anonymous individual. I'm actually startled by the difference in polling results. The difference between killing a best friend and killing an anonymous individual is simply the personal relation/attitude, and I was under the erroneous assumption that anyone who was willing to kill the anonymous individual would not let mere feelings interrupt with their judgment. And of course, I'm completely wrong. Still, I breathe a slight sigh of relief and I understand something else my brother was talking about: that there perhaps a significant part of humanity is not only the ability to act on empathy and sympathy, rather than cold callous reasoning, but also the choice to act irrationally (that is, act against simple logic). And perhaps that's a good thing after all.

Or maybe I'm just writing a load of bullcrap. lol. Anyways, thanks guys. I feel a lot better after this.


***
meguca
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States78 Posts
September 02 2011 02:03 GMT
#2
Depends on who the 100 people are.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44461 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 02:12:46
September 02 2011 02:05 GMT
#3
If each life is considered equal, then both answers should be "Yes".

However, you have an emotional attachment to your best friend, so I could totally understand why people wouldn't kill their best friend to save people they don't know, but would allow one anonymous death to save one hundred anonymous deaths (as that's an obvious "greater good" scenario, unclouded by subjectivity).

This is a classic psychological hypothetical situation (usually with the anonymous killing done before the personal killing) to see how the volunteers react. I'm pretty sure most of them react differently- willing to kill people they don't know, but not willing to kill their mother or best friend.

+ Show Spoiler +
I chose to kill the anonymous person but not kill my best friend, for the emotional attachment reason I explained above. I assumed that I knew that I didn't know any of the 100 people held hostage, nor the 1 anonymous person being killed in the second situation, as it seemed a bit ambiguous.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
September 02 2011 02:07 GMT
#4
Probably, but I'd like to meet the people, as I certainly don't value all life equally
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 02:20:54
September 02 2011 02:10 GMT
#5
One question : if I don't save these hostages, are they assured to die, or there is still a chance than SWAT or whoever saves them ? The way the question is currently worded implies that killing your best friend would instantly release them, but it doesn't mean they would die for sure otherwise.
ॐ
DarkOptik
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
452 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 02:13:14
September 02 2011 02:12 GMT
#6
Yes, you're right. I should've made that more clear.

For clarification purposes, it's a very strict dichotomy: either you save your best friend and 100 people die, or you kill your best friend and save 100 lives. The same goes for the other question.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44461 Posts
September 02 2011 02:13 GMT
#7
On September 02 2011 11:12 DarkOptik wrote:
Yes, you're right. I should've made that more clear.

For clarification purposes, it's a very strict dichotomy: either you save your best friend and 100 people dies, or you kill your best friend and save 100 people lives. The same goes for the other question.


I assumed that I knew that I didn't know any of the 100 people held hostage, nor the 1 anonymous person being killed in the second situation, as it seemed a bit ambiguous.

Everyone who dies besides your best friend are people who you don't know?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
DarkOptik
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
452 Posts
September 02 2011 02:14 GMT
#8
Yes, that is correct. I'll clarify in the OP further.
noname_
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
458 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 02:19:08
September 02 2011 02:16 GMT
#9
Are the hostages gonna be killed or not?
upd.: I see now.
I wouldn`t kill anyone. :o
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
September 02 2011 02:16 GMT
#10
I would kill a random person to save a hundred random people. This much is certain. I assume we're talking about flipping a switch or something. If I have to kill someone in-person I will probably not be able to do it.

I would... with great difficulty... probably maybe kill my best friend to save a hundred random people. I'm not sure I'd actually do this, but I think I'm more likely to do so than not. If I had to kill my best friend in person I will probably not be able to do it.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-02 02:20:24
September 02 2011 02:16 GMT
#11
If everyone except my friend is anonymous I would be forced to kill my friend. It would suck though.

EDIT: I would also expect blowjobs at minimum from all the attractive women in that 100 afterwards.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
September 02 2011 02:19 GMT
#12
I think the right thing to do is to kill friend and kill anonymous person for the 100 hostages. Probably wouldn't be able to do it though.
XXGeneration
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States625 Posts
September 02 2011 02:21 GMT
#13
It would depend on what my friend wants.
"I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists... I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple." -Midas
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
September 02 2011 02:22 GMT
#14
On September 02 2011 11:21 XXGeneration wrote:
It would depend on what my friend wants.


I'm assuming you aren't able to contact him... if you are you might want to ask him though lol
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
phiinix
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1169 Posts
September 02 2011 02:23 GMT
#15
Ah, reminds me of the good ol trolley question I heard about in my gen. philosophy class. They were way more absurd, so I answered yes to both of these =p

In theory I see the situation as trading 1 life for 1 hundred. I understand that having to kill someone would put an incredible, perhaps overwhelming amount of guilt and would probably suffer from depression for the rest of my life. It's quite possible I'd end up suicidal or insane. So it'd be trading 2 lives for 1 hundred. Worth it.

In practice, no. These hypothetical scenarios always have billions of other questions to ask, (can I talk to my friend beforehand, how can i be sure the others will live, what kind of people are the hostaegs, etc.) and most of the time when i'm given the options, they're under perfect circumstances, i.e, killing my friend/stranger would guaranteeing the freedom of the hostages, I can't talk to anyone else, can't exchange my life instead, w/e. In real life I would never trust a captor to keep his word in a hostage situation.
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
September 02 2011 02:23 GMT
#16
Yes to the first, no to the second.
Obviously no extreme case will exist, or if it does, can be nicely/logically solved by any given branch of ethics (after all, all ethics are based on some arbitrary first-priority values). However, given the situation, since Deontology and Consequentialism always lead to the whole "moral paralysis" or "aggregation/moral calculus" issue, I choose Contractualism for my argument.

I argue that despite the burden of death that the village faces, I can reasonably reject the action based on the fact that my friend also faces a burden of death. These individual reasons cancel and now I can choose which one to pick. Even if we allow for the case of appeal by aggregation (that is, there are more lives to save), I can still reasonably reject killing my friend by weighing my psychological burden due to the action against the inaction I take to let the village die. Obviously this is based on my personal values yet again, but with my interests at hand while I am the actor, I will outweigh the consequentialist aspect with my heavier burden of actually having to kill. This means that I will not kill my best friend for the village.

There is relatively less of a psychological burden in killing an anonymous person (again, personal morals come into hand, but this can be generalized further to others unless you have no friends), which means in this case a rough leveling can be done and the aggregation factor outweighs, meaning that I WILL save 100 for the sacrifice of one.

In the end, you will end up prioritizing your interests over that of others when you become the actor, no matter how slight it is or how disgusting you find that bias. Else you cannot fully weigh based upon everybody's interests.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
September 02 2011 02:24 GMT
#17
Then if we don't know any of these people, I think that once again we can apply the Monkeysphere theory.
Immoral and unfair, yet we have no control over this feeling of not caring most of the time.

Which isn't that bad either otherwise we would be depressed for a week every time a plane crashes. I'm not even talking about wars.
ॐ
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
September 02 2011 02:31 GMT
#18
The question is IMO pointless to ponder considering that no one here will ever find themselves in such a situation in this lifetime.
XXGeneration
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States625 Posts
September 02 2011 02:37 GMT
#19
On September 02 2011 11:31 Geovu wrote:
The question is IMO pointless to ponder considering that no one here will ever find themselves in such a situation in this lifetime.


I mean, I guess it's pointless to ponder how the universe was created, since no one will be creating a universe.
"I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists... I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple." -Midas
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
September 02 2011 02:38 GMT
#20
I'm hesitant to get into an ethics discussion on TL, but if anyone (OP?) is interested in learning more on this topic, I can recommend some literature.
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