• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:24
CET 09:24
KST 17:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice6Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza1Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258
StarCraft 2
General
https://www.facebook.com/BackRestore.USA/ How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Vitality disbanding their sc2-team Team Liquid Map Contest - Preparation Notice ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 Flash's ASL S21 & Future Plans Announcement BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifier #1 - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
ONE GREAT AMERICAN MARINE…
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1689 users

Ladder Blog #13

Blogs > neobowman
Post a Reply
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 21 2011 04:20 GMT
#1
Pretty bad two days in terms of ladder. What I DO want to talk about.

Proleague finals.

There's something about Brood War. Some special spark that gets me so excited in a way that SC2 doesn't provide for me. + Show Spoiler [Proleague Finals Spoilers] +
Watching Perfective (was that his name? Yeah, it was) go all in mutaling against Fantasy and have it BARELY defended (yeah, was rootin for KT. I'm an OZ fan but they're not doing so well) by some epic play by Fantasy over and over again. Bisu's easy looking all-in defense. I admit I skipped s2 vs Hoejja :p. Anti-queen ez win By.Sun (see what I did there?).

Best vs Flash was freakin amazing. Flash's fast push was so sick. You do not see anything like that in SC2. And then Stats vs n.Die_soO. Stats was up by SO MANY BASES but soO kept throwing units at him and for a moment, it looked like he might have a chance. Eventually, he lost but it was definitely a really exciting game.

And then the final game. Flash made it look SO EASY. I mean HE IS SOOOOO GOOD. There isn't even a way to describe it. I saw the mass gateways from Best and was like OHHHHHH! Then I saw the mass factory from Flash and was like OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH! You just can't see such a game like that in SC2. With the hyper effecient tank defense taking four bases. I don't think anyone other than Flash would be able to do it. It was soooo sick. It got my so hyped to improve, in a way that watching SC2 just doesn't provide for me.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvT] +
I've experimented around with various timings of the gas. First thing I tried was a quick 2 gas right after pool. Turns out that I have wayyy too much gas and can't spend it. Later on, I tried a bit of a delayed two gas, after I get a few more drones up, I still ended up with too much gas. It builds up too quickly and I don't have a real use for it. I think the reason for this is the Starcraft 2 gas mechanic. There's two gasses, but they give the same amount as 1 gas in Starcraft 1. This means I need to have twice the amount of drones off of minerals put in gas. Thus, my gas SEEMS to rise a lot quicker, when in reality, it's just that I'm getting fewer minerals.

Eventually, I settled on Ret's timing, where you get it around when the pool's finished, and then add two gas around when the lair's halfway done. Get the fourth gas when spire's going up. This gets a good econ going so I can save up for mutas, while still getting them out pretty fast. I can also make a task force of speedlings to defend any pesky marine attack.

First time I got this timing down, I felt pretty good. My harass wasn't perfect but I felt like I was keeping him in base. Then this giant push comes barrelling down the middle of the map and I type out right away. I think I need to get the baneling transition sooner. Maybe start researching burrow as soon as the mutas pop, and bane nest soon after. Anyway, I need more practice with it.

I think one problem with the build is turrets. SC2 turrets are a lot more robust and deal a lot more damage than SC1 turrets. Plus, repair bugs out a LOT less than in SC1 so scvs can surround a turret fast and repair for all eternity. In SC1, you could usually get a max of 3 or 4 scvs on a turret when it was being hit by mutas. The uber sc2 turrets aren't just a delaying tool like in SC1, but a solid defense, so mutas aren't as good at keeping him in base.

Also, I've come to a conclusion that every new ladder map except nerazim crypt is imbalanced against Zerg. I'm not raging, I just came to this conclusion after thinking through things a lot.

Searing Crater and Abyssal was talked about in SOTG. Antiga Shipyard, ohhh man. I knew tanks would be killer on this map ever since it first came out. Trust me, I'm a mapper. I get paid (well I don't get paid) to think about imbalances on maps. I'll talk about this particular game later.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvZ] +
I've been dying to try out Nestea's 10 pool opening. Unfortunately, it only works on 2 or 3 player maps. There is a total of ONE 2 player map and ONE three player map (Shakuras technically is one). That means I don't really get many chances. I'm still doing my 14/14 as a result. But I saw the other Nestea game that I missed on Tal'Darim. It seems he's going 15 hatch every game that he doesn't go 10 pool.

Now at this point, I'd REALLY appreciate a Day9 daily on this. There's so much going on that I don't really understand fully. There's so basic concepts that are obvious but drone timings and attack timings are really kind of hard for me to get. So if Day9, you're reading this, please do Losira vs Nestea on Tal'Darim. Please.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvP] +
Okay, so despite the replays about 5 hatch before gas that I was told about, NONE OF THEM were actually 5 hatch before gas. Which kind of confuses me.

I've had to deal with some blink 4 gate (lol), and that's about it I think. I haven't played many Tosses lately. It's my best matchup already so I don't really mind at this point.


So I'm on the ladder, playin some games. I open at 12 O clock on Antiga, scout with my overlord towards 3 o clock. I get him first try . I see the Terran open up with CC before barracks. I've never seen this build before but I decide to go 15 hatch 18 hatch 17 pool (turns out you get wayyyy too much larva if you make three queens. Maybe even one queen is good at the start). He bunker rushes me (lol) and fails, and he's stuck on one base since I have over twenty lings out with my three hatcheries pumping. He eventually pushes out to his natural and I don't contest it, since it's so late. Instead, I take down the rocks to his third. I drone up, tech to lair, and am pretty comfortable. Eager to see what he's doing, I send in my scout overlord letting him die for some info. I find two tech lab factories.

Now, if I were thinking rationally, I'd know that this meant tanks. Unfortunately, blue flame hellions are in my nightmares right now so as soon as I see the tech lab on the fac, I assume blue flame hellions and plant down a roach warren, saving up for a bunch of roaches. Around 8 as it turns out since I'm supply capped. Then I realize he's not going blue flame hellions.

No problem, I have a huge drone lead and he's on 2 base compared to my 3. I get a few mutas and harass him a bit, taking down a good deal of marines. At this point, I feel ahead with full saturation and a huge ball of roachling. I see him land a command center to his third and I'm like, LOL, ez. I go in through the ramp I took down earlier.... And then

[image loading]
What I'm doing

[image loading]
What I don't see

Now, even if I saw this force, the tanks are positioned so that I will NOT be able to get a good position against them even if I attack from all angles. This is why I figure tanks would be so crazy good on this map. My attack falls, though I kill a lot of scvs. I'm kind of panicked, as it's three base vs three base and I haven't teched much. I try to attack a few more times, losing a ton of roaches. I expand to a fourth and tech up, trying to catch up, and then,

[image loading]

There is pretty much no way to break this position with just roaches. Infestors wouldn't help much. Can't really counterattack as he has a stranglehold on the middle which defends his natural. Drop would be good but I don't have the upgrade yet. I get broodlords but they get rolled by a few vikings.

Looking back, even if I played perfectly, I see no way to break this position other than getting drop preemptively and countering in his main like that. Even if I do that, he's on three bases and right outside all my bases so he can just kill me right there. If someone thinks they have a solution, please share.

I have 5 maps to veto (Backwater, Antiga, Searing Crater, Typhon Peaks, Abyssal Caverns). I only have 3 votes.

[image loading]

I lied. I have another name to choose from. I won't change my name until this poll's done too.

Poll: New Name Part 2

Caliburn (5)
 
33%

Avalon (4)
 
27%

Einhart (3)
 
20%

Emiya (3)
 
20%

15 total votes

Your vote: New Name Part 2

(Vote): Einhart
(Vote): Emiya
(Vote): Avalon
(Vote): Caliburn



+ Show Spoiler [ Blogs #1-10] +
Blog #1
Blog #2
Blog #3
Blog #4
Blog #5
Blog #6
Blog #7
Blog #8
Blog #9
Blog #10

Blog #11
Blog #12

*****
rebuffering
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2436 Posts
August 21 2011 04:54 GMT
#2
preety good read i must say, too bad im just switching to zerg and can't help AT ALL cuz im terrible right now. Played T and P at masters level, now getting rolled as zerg, but im just making bad decisions. But as you said in the antiga game, drops would have been great, but there really wasnt anywhere for you to drop other than the main, which is at a preety screwed up angle from your spawn. Ultimately the 2 things that come to mind for me are, unlucky spawn position, since its bascially close postions, and trying to deny the 3rd was a good idea, but that tank positioning was really good, maybe not sacrificing all the roaches for scv's would have changed the game. And seeing 2 tech lab fac to me means tanks, yes there can be blue flam hellions, but not nearly as many as there could be with 1 tech 1 reactor. Well GL in future! i know il need all the luck possible!
http://www.twitch.tv/rebufferingg
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 21 2011 19:47 GMT
#3
Yeah, spawns were pretty bad but even in favourable positions, it could be difficult to deal with.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mcanning 157
SortOf 110
Livibee 58
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 38234
Britney 33616
PianO 375
ToSsGirL 288
Dewaltoss 169
Terrorterran 20
Dota 2
XaKoH 478
NeuroSwarm129
League of Legends
JimRising 620
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1150
m0e_tv547
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King202
Other Games
C9.Mang0328
Fuzer 160
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4902
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 4264
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream958
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 279
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1732
• Stunt545
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
1h 36m
RSL Revival
1h 36m
Reynor vs Zoun
herO vs sOs
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3h 36m
Classic vs Rogue
Solar vs Gerald
Bunny vs Nicoract
ByuN vs Zoun
herO vs Clem
MaxPax vs Cure
AI Arena Tournament
11h 36m
Patches Events
14h 36m
Replay Cast
15h 36m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 1h
Classic vs TriGGeR
Cure vs Cham
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1d 3h
OSC
1d 4h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-05
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.