• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:45
CET 10:45
KST 18:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband Information Request Regarding Chinese Ladder
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion FlaSh's Valkyrie Copium BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread The Perfect Game Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1056 users

Ladder Blog #13

Blogs > neobowman
Post a Reply
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 21 2011 04:20 GMT
#1
Pretty bad two days in terms of ladder. What I DO want to talk about.

Proleague finals.

There's something about Brood War. Some special spark that gets me so excited in a way that SC2 doesn't provide for me. + Show Spoiler [Proleague Finals Spoilers] +
Watching Perfective (was that his name? Yeah, it was) go all in mutaling against Fantasy and have it BARELY defended (yeah, was rootin for KT. I'm an OZ fan but they're not doing so well) by some epic play by Fantasy over and over again. Bisu's easy looking all-in defense. I admit I skipped s2 vs Hoejja :p. Anti-queen ez win By.Sun (see what I did there?).

Best vs Flash was freakin amazing. Flash's fast push was so sick. You do not see anything like that in SC2. And then Stats vs n.Die_soO. Stats was up by SO MANY BASES but soO kept throwing units at him and for a moment, it looked like he might have a chance. Eventually, he lost but it was definitely a really exciting game.

And then the final game. Flash made it look SO EASY. I mean HE IS SOOOOO GOOD. There isn't even a way to describe it. I saw the mass gateways from Best and was like OHHHHHH! Then I saw the mass factory from Flash and was like OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH! You just can't see such a game like that in SC2. With the hyper effecient tank defense taking four bases. I don't think anyone other than Flash would be able to do it. It was soooo sick. It got my so hyped to improve, in a way that watching SC2 just doesn't provide for me.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvT] +
I've experimented around with various timings of the gas. First thing I tried was a quick 2 gas right after pool. Turns out that I have wayyy too much gas and can't spend it. Later on, I tried a bit of a delayed two gas, after I get a few more drones up, I still ended up with too much gas. It builds up too quickly and I don't have a real use for it. I think the reason for this is the Starcraft 2 gas mechanic. There's two gasses, but they give the same amount as 1 gas in Starcraft 1. This means I need to have twice the amount of drones off of minerals put in gas. Thus, my gas SEEMS to rise a lot quicker, when in reality, it's just that I'm getting fewer minerals.

Eventually, I settled on Ret's timing, where you get it around when the pool's finished, and then add two gas around when the lair's halfway done. Get the fourth gas when spire's going up. This gets a good econ going so I can save up for mutas, while still getting them out pretty fast. I can also make a task force of speedlings to defend any pesky marine attack.

First time I got this timing down, I felt pretty good. My harass wasn't perfect but I felt like I was keeping him in base. Then this giant push comes barrelling down the middle of the map and I type out right away. I think I need to get the baneling transition sooner. Maybe start researching burrow as soon as the mutas pop, and bane nest soon after. Anyway, I need more practice with it.

I think one problem with the build is turrets. SC2 turrets are a lot more robust and deal a lot more damage than SC1 turrets. Plus, repair bugs out a LOT less than in SC1 so scvs can surround a turret fast and repair for all eternity. In SC1, you could usually get a max of 3 or 4 scvs on a turret when it was being hit by mutas. The uber sc2 turrets aren't just a delaying tool like in SC1, but a solid defense, so mutas aren't as good at keeping him in base.

Also, I've come to a conclusion that every new ladder map except nerazim crypt is imbalanced against Zerg. I'm not raging, I just came to this conclusion after thinking through things a lot.

Searing Crater and Abyssal was talked about in SOTG. Antiga Shipyard, ohhh man. I knew tanks would be killer on this map ever since it first came out. Trust me, I'm a mapper. I get paid (well I don't get paid) to think about imbalances on maps. I'll talk about this particular game later.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvZ] +
I've been dying to try out Nestea's 10 pool opening. Unfortunately, it only works on 2 or 3 player maps. There is a total of ONE 2 player map and ONE three player map (Shakuras technically is one). That means I don't really get many chances. I'm still doing my 14/14 as a result. But I saw the other Nestea game that I missed on Tal'Darim. It seems he's going 15 hatch every game that he doesn't go 10 pool.

Now at this point, I'd REALLY appreciate a Day9 daily on this. There's so much going on that I don't really understand fully. There's so basic concepts that are obvious but drone timings and attack timings are really kind of hard for me to get. So if Day9, you're reading this, please do Losira vs Nestea on Tal'Darim. Please.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvP] +
Okay, so despite the replays about 5 hatch before gas that I was told about, NONE OF THEM were actually 5 hatch before gas. Which kind of confuses me.

I've had to deal with some blink 4 gate (lol), and that's about it I think. I haven't played many Tosses lately. It's my best matchup already so I don't really mind at this point.


So I'm on the ladder, playin some games. I open at 12 O clock on Antiga, scout with my overlord towards 3 o clock. I get him first try . I see the Terran open up with CC before barracks. I've never seen this build before but I decide to go 15 hatch 18 hatch 17 pool (turns out you get wayyyy too much larva if you make three queens. Maybe even one queen is good at the start). He bunker rushes me (lol) and fails, and he's stuck on one base since I have over twenty lings out with my three hatcheries pumping. He eventually pushes out to his natural and I don't contest it, since it's so late. Instead, I take down the rocks to his third. I drone up, tech to lair, and am pretty comfortable. Eager to see what he's doing, I send in my scout overlord letting him die for some info. I find two tech lab factories.

Now, if I were thinking rationally, I'd know that this meant tanks. Unfortunately, blue flame hellions are in my nightmares right now so as soon as I see the tech lab on the fac, I assume blue flame hellions and plant down a roach warren, saving up for a bunch of roaches. Around 8 as it turns out since I'm supply capped. Then I realize he's not going blue flame hellions.

No problem, I have a huge drone lead and he's on 2 base compared to my 3. I get a few mutas and harass him a bit, taking down a good deal of marines. At this point, I feel ahead with full saturation and a huge ball of roachling. I see him land a command center to his third and I'm like, LOL, ez. I go in through the ramp I took down earlier.... And then

[image loading]
What I'm doing

[image loading]
What I don't see

Now, even if I saw this force, the tanks are positioned so that I will NOT be able to get a good position against them even if I attack from all angles. This is why I figure tanks would be so crazy good on this map. My attack falls, though I kill a lot of scvs. I'm kind of panicked, as it's three base vs three base and I haven't teched much. I try to attack a few more times, losing a ton of roaches. I expand to a fourth and tech up, trying to catch up, and then,

[image loading]

There is pretty much no way to break this position with just roaches. Infestors wouldn't help much. Can't really counterattack as he has a stranglehold on the middle which defends his natural. Drop would be good but I don't have the upgrade yet. I get broodlords but they get rolled by a few vikings.

Looking back, even if I played perfectly, I see no way to break this position other than getting drop preemptively and countering in his main like that. Even if I do that, he's on three bases and right outside all my bases so he can just kill me right there. If someone thinks they have a solution, please share.

I have 5 maps to veto (Backwater, Antiga, Searing Crater, Typhon Peaks, Abyssal Caverns). I only have 3 votes.

[image loading]

I lied. I have another name to choose from. I won't change my name until this poll's done too.

Poll: New Name Part 2

Caliburn (5)
 
33%

Avalon (4)
 
27%

Einhart (3)
 
20%

Emiya (3)
 
20%

15 total votes

Your vote: New Name Part 2

(Vote): Einhart
(Vote): Emiya
(Vote): Avalon
(Vote): Caliburn



+ Show Spoiler [ Blogs #1-10] +
Blog #1
Blog #2
Blog #3
Blog #4
Blog #5
Blog #6
Blog #7
Blog #8
Blog #9
Blog #10

Blog #11
Blog #12

*****
rebuffering
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2436 Posts
August 21 2011 04:54 GMT
#2
preety good read i must say, too bad im just switching to zerg and can't help AT ALL cuz im terrible right now. Played T and P at masters level, now getting rolled as zerg, but im just making bad decisions. But as you said in the antiga game, drops would have been great, but there really wasnt anywhere for you to drop other than the main, which is at a preety screwed up angle from your spawn. Ultimately the 2 things that come to mind for me are, unlucky spawn position, since its bascially close postions, and trying to deny the 3rd was a good idea, but that tank positioning was really good, maybe not sacrificing all the roaches for scv's would have changed the game. And seeing 2 tech lab fac to me means tanks, yes there can be blue flam hellions, but not nearly as many as there could be with 1 tech 1 reactor. Well GL in future! i know il need all the luck possible!
http://www.twitch.tv/rebufferingg
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 21 2011 19:47 GMT
#3
Yeah, spawns were pretty bad but even in favourable positions, it could be difficult to deal with.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 15m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 204
ProTech120
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1063
actioN 724
Horang2 389
Larva 316
Mini 289
Hyun 188
Sharp 124
Zeus 121
Pusan 118
Killer 107
[ Show more ]
PianO 85
ZerO 84
Light 68
Dewaltoss 66
Rush 66
sorry 47
soO 23
NotJumperer 16
Hm[arnc] 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
Dota 2
XaKoH 467
XcaliburYe158
League of Legends
JimRising 428
C9.Mang0252
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1102
shoxiejesuss584
Super Smash Bros
Westballz21
Other Games
summit1g13417
ZerO(Twitch)3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick683
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 73
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH248
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota249
League of Legends
• Jankos1267
• Lourlo969
• Stunt546
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
2h 15m
StarCraft2.fi
7h 15m
Replay Cast
14h 15m
The PondCast
1d
OSC
1d 6h
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
PiGosaur Monday
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.