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Picking a Race(BW)

Blogs > BigFan
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BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 21:34:18
August 19 2011 21:33 GMT
#1
Anyone who has read my intro would know that I've played BW before, but, mostly team games and against AI, etc.... so it wasn't competitive at all. Having played SCII now and have a better idea of gameplay, I decided that this might be the right time to go back to BW and try some 1vs1 on iCCup just to see where I rank. Watching some of the BW streams right here on TL, I have an idea of what some of the strats that I'll be going up against and in terms of "counters" and such but I still plan to experiment a bit.

The only issue is, I'm having a hard time deciding on a race. I don't believe there is a random race so it makes things that much harder I would pick Terran since I'm currently playing Terran in SCII and because I just love tanks and in general just the MFM ball but then I also love reavers, dragoons and hts for Protoss. Let's also not forget my love for the lurkers and just Zerg units in general especially the hydra. So, what do you guys think? I've read that Protoss is easier to play and win on the lower levels of iCCup but I don't care much about that. I'm expecting to lose a lot as I get used to hotkeys again and get used to the general interface and what I can/can't do in comparison to SCII so fire away!

Edit: oops, forgot there is random but don't wanna go for that when I still have 3 different races with totally different hotkeys to learn

*
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11960 Posts
August 19 2011 21:37 GMT
#2
I suggest you pick on how you like the mirror match-ups. I personally like pvp the most of the mirrors, you might prefer tvt or zvz. I don't know.
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
August 19 2011 21:39 GMT
#3
Protoss if you want to actually win games. And btw you will never get used to the interface. It fights you every step of the way
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 21:42:24
August 19 2011 21:40 GMT
#4
Thanks for the comments so far.

^^hehe, I don't actually mind the interface since I've played BW before. Call me crazy but fighting the interface is part of the fun? Also, how come Protoss is considered more easy to win with, storms? Archons? Reavers? There must be a reason

@Yurie Good point, forgot to consider that. I don't think I'll mind mirrors much in BW as much as SCII just because of the different compositions that are possible in each matchups imo.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
August 19 2011 21:45 GMT
#5
I liked Terran best, but if you want to win games quickly after starting and with minimal effort pick Protoss. It only evens out around A-/A.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 19 2011 21:48 GMT
#6
Thanks, but, why is Protoss easier to win with? I haven't been given any answers to that question so far XD hmm, just realized that Sept 1 is the reset, so, maybe I should try the different races and then decide when the reset happens
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
aphorism
Profile Joined February 2011
United States226 Posts
August 19 2011 21:51 GMT
#7
When I started playing BW I picked zerg, but only because I used 1 hatch per hotkey in SC2, and adjusting would be easier than from my terran/protoss setups. If you're going to learn the BW mechanics anyway, then I would play a bit with each race, and see what you like best.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 21:53:39
August 19 2011 21:52 GMT
#8
kk, thanks for commenting
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
August 19 2011 21:58 GMT
#9
On August 20 2011 06:48 BigFan wrote:
Thanks, but, why is Protoss easier to win with? I haven't been given any answers to that question so far XD hmm, just realized that Sept 1 is the reset, so, maybe I should try the different races and then decide when the reset happens

Protoss is easier at the lower levels because the units require less micro to be cost efficient.

There is a random option in bw, but unless you can host you'll probably have a hard time finding a game without being banned.
pyaar
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States423 Posts
August 19 2011 22:01 GMT
#10
On August 20 2011 06:48 BigFan wrote:
Thanks, but, why is Protoss easier to win with? I haven't been given any answers to that question so far XD hmm, just realized that Sept 1 is the reset, so, maybe I should try the different races and then decide when the reset happens


just like in starcraft 2, at a lower level protoss outperforms the other races because of the relatively low amount of micro its units require
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1704 Posts
August 19 2011 22:06 GMT
#11
Try to go on what playstyle appeals to you most, not on which you think will be easiest. The difficulty curve really does even out between all the races. Watch VODs and find something to try with a race which you think will be fun.
EleGant[AoV]
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
August 19 2011 22:20 GMT
#12
On August 20 2011 07:01 pyaar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 06:48 BigFan wrote:
Thanks, but, why is Protoss easier to win with? I haven't been given any answers to that question so far XD hmm, just realized that Sept 1 is the reset, so, maybe I should try the different races and then decide when the reset happens


just like in starcraft 2, at a lower level protoss outperforms the other races because of the relatively low amount of micro its units require


I really dont think this is comparable. There is a huge difference in the difficulty of mnm micro vs lurks in BW and kiting shit with marauders in sc2
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 19 2011 22:23 GMT
#13
Thanks for the comments, the Protoss ones make sense
Just played a quick custom against AI, got used to some hotkeys and such, so, I'm a bit more familiar now and realized that you actually have control groups, just that you can't have more than one structure. Makes sense now how those players were quickly jumping to their army and back to base, etc....
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
August 19 2011 22:25 GMT
#14
massing hydras is just somehow fun
i play zerg because i end up saving up with the limited larvae off 1 hatch/base, so i can expand much more often than i usually would
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
antilyon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil2546 Posts
August 19 2011 22:25 GMT
#15
Terran is the way to go if you don't mind about difficult.
I'd play Terran but because of mechanics and and such, I only play SC2BW and SC2 now
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 19 2011 22:30 GMT
#16
Ya, I remember mass hydras was a blast against the AI XD especially with the speed upgrades, such beast units! hmm, I don't mind difficulty actually, I might go Terran but checking out Z/P atm. Thanks for the comments

BTW, curious, how are some people shift clicking? I guess that can only be done with protoss since the worker doesn't build or morph into the structure?
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
August 19 2011 22:37 GMT
#17
You can shift click scvs as well.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 19 2011 22:38 GMT
#18
of course but I meant make a worker build something and then get back to mining. Thanks for the comment
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Brad`
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada548 Posts
August 19 2011 22:40 GMT
#19
Ya thats what I meant as well. You tell the scv to build the structure then shift click the minerals and it will go back to mining after its done.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 19 2011 22:53 GMT
#20
hmm, kk, maybe I just clicked it after it started then, cool. Thanks, nice to know that some things are still the same
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Ravencruiser
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada519 Posts
August 19 2011 22:58 GMT
#21
On August 20 2011 06:45 Piy wrote:
I liked Terran best, but if you want to win games quickly after starting and with minimal effort pick Protoss. It only evens out around A-/A.


Nono, PvZ in the C ranks was tough as shit.

When everyone has decent macro, PvZ is a nightmare without the required multitasking, awareness and game sense at the C ranks.

I hated PvP so I did PvT ZvP and PvZ, and ironically when I was C/C+ most of my wins were against protosses in ZvPs. There is truth to 5sh6s7sh8sh9sh1a2a3a4a, at least in the C ranks.
"Yah, free will is a bitch" - Drone
salito
Profile Joined May 2010
1647 Posts
August 19 2011 22:58 GMT
#22
protoss if you want to win
terran if you want to retain your pride
Nature moves in the shortest way possible.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 23:02:25
August 19 2011 23:02 GMT
#23
^^haha, retain my pride, huh? hmm, maybe I should, maybe I should :p

I just watched Sayle win a PvsZ, looked pretty tough but the constant denial of expos and cannoning up his whole base helped XD That and storms, maelstorms, etc.... are such awesome spells as well. Thanks for the comments
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
August 19 2011 23:03 GMT
#24
You will love reavers until they suddenly go to red due to surprise hydras, you pick it up with your only shuttle that also contains 2 HTs, then scourge come in and snipe it.

And then you will rage.

But playing BeSt-style PvT is quite refreshing. Nothing like pure zeal/goon/arbs into wreck everything in my way with 40 gateways' worth of units.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 19 2011 23:06 GMT
#25
ouch, that sounds bad XD
I dunno if I can rage though, I'm expecting to lose a lot and I mean a lot because I've gotten used to SCII easier mechanics. With that said, I look forward to dropping an opponent or two with reavers and watch them squirm as they try to get their workers out
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
August 19 2011 23:22 GMT
#26
Only Bisu can win PvZs, thats my tip.

+ Show Spoiler +

Highly unbiased ¬¬
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 23:30:57
August 19 2011 23:30 GMT
#27
On August 20 2011 08:22 fabiano wrote:
Only Bisu can win PvZs, thats my tip.

+ Show Spoiler +

Highly unbiased ¬¬

Why is that?

Hearing so many mixed signals. Some saying Terran is hardest to play and OP, now Z
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
blubbdavid
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Switzerland2412 Posts
August 19 2011 23:41 GMT
#28
Depends on who you want to win against.Usually Z>P>T>Z at lower levels.

PvP seems fun, and there you can't just 1a2a3a, because the other guy has the same "easy" race. But PvZ midgame isn't that much fun for the toss (my view as a Z player, mass hydras ftw)

ZvZ is a nightmare.
Zerg may be easier for very low beginners, but I tell you, later you will rage hard against these + Show Spoiler +
terran faggots who think they can stim and a-move in to my sunken line while they send the rest of their marines, which are completely free btw, to kill my hard earned third.

jk jk, I love you terran players.

Can't say much for terran, except that their units cost no money.
Just some ranting from a D player, take it with a grain of salt.
What do you desire? Money? Glory? Power? Revenge? Or something that surpasses all other? Whatever you desire - that is here. Tower of God ¦¦Nutella, drink of the Gods
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
August 20 2011 00:05 GMT
#29
Lemme break this down.

If you want to play brood war for some fun as an alternative to sc2, choose Protoss.
If you want the full brood war effect (frustration, depression, absolute hate for all things protoss) play terran.
Zerg is kind of middle of the road. Pretty straight forward through D ranks once you get down a build. Then you hit a couple of terrans that start forcing you to multitask a little and you'll feel the pain.
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
August 20 2011 00:09 GMT
#30
On August 20 2011 06:39 kNyTTyM wrote:
Protoss if you want to actually win games. And btw you will never get used to the interface. It fights you every step of the way


This. If you want to have fun, pick the race you like the most, but if having fun is very proportional to the amount of games that you win, pick Protoss.
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
August 20 2011 00:12 GMT
#31
terran cuz of Boxer.

thats what I did.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 20 2011 00:20 GMT
#32
Thanks for the comments and for that nice 1/5 rating XD So, I just played 2 games against another Z/P player. Lost the first to lings and messed up my rax placement leaving spaces and unable to take an exp XD Second game went a bit later, grabbed my exp, some upgrades and a third, etc.... only issue I have is how do you guys use your limited control groups? In SCII, since, you can put as many structures as you want, I would just group my structures into: 1 cc, 2 rax, 3 fac, 4 starport, etc... but I can't in this case, so, do you guys recommend only putting cc's and fac/starport into the control groups and manually making units from rax? I don't believe Z has this issue due to the hatchery mechanism, but, I would think P has it
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
August 20 2011 00:29 GMT
#33
On August 20 2011 09:20 BigFan wrote:
Thanks for the comments and for that nice 1/5 rating XD So, I just played 2 games against another Z/P player. Lost the first to lings and messed up my rax placement leaving spaces and unable to take an exp XD Second game went a bit later, grabbed my exp, some upgrades and a third, etc.... only issue I have is how do you guys use your limited control groups? In SCII, since, you can put as many structures as you want, I would just group my structures into: 1 cc, 2 rax, 3 fac, 4 starport, etc... but I can't in this case, so, do you guys recommend only putting cc's and fac/starport into the control groups and manually making units from rax? I don't believe Z has this issue due to the hatchery mechanism, but, I would think P has it


Function keys help. They capture locations (F1 to F3). Usually, you bind them to your main and nat nexus/hatch/cc area early game, then switch them to your production buildings mid-late game if protoss/terran.

When I play protoss, i use 5-9 for structures and 1-4 for units. If I have more units, I don't hotkey most of them anymore, just click and move/attack and use the hotkeys for the ones requiring quite a bit of micro.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9527 Posts
August 20 2011 00:35 GMT
#34
Take 3 pieces of paper, write on each P, T or Z. Throw the pieces of paper into a hat (if you don't own a hat, find a suitable replacement), close your eyes, look away, and put your right hand into the hat (left works too, but right is better imo). After fondling with papers for a bit, pick one out of the hat and see what's written on it. Now play 100 hundred games with that race.
After you finish, repeat the process but now put only the two remaining races into the hat. And at the end play 100 games with last race and then decide what suits you best based on your wins/losses ratio, how much fun you had with each race and just on general feeling you had with each race.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
August 20 2011 02:08 GMT
#35
On August 20 2011 09:35 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Take 3 pieces of paper, write on each P, T or Z. Throw the pieces of paper into a hat (if you don't own a hat, find a suitable replacement), close your eyes, look away, and put your right hand into the hat (left works too, but right is better imo). After fondling with papers for a bit, pick one out of the hat and see what's written on it. Now play 100 hundred games with that race.
After you finish, repeat the process but now put only the two remaining races into the hat. And at the end play 100 games with last race and then decide what suits you best based on your wins/losses ratio, how much fun you had with each race and just on general feeling you had with each race.


This is def the best advice. Most of this thread is just imbalance whine. It's better just to play and do the one you like.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
muse5187
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
1125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-20 02:13:16
August 20 2011 02:09 GMT
#36
Unless you have someone to help you and analyze your replays start with ptoss. After you get some basic mechanics down you can switch if you want to. Be ready to lose... a lot.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
August 20 2011 02:10 GMT
#37
If you can keep your APM medium(Above 130 or so) with protoss, try out zerg. If you can keep your APM high (above 260 or so) with zerg, try out terran . Thats how my mind figured it out anyways. Note: Results may vary XD
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
muse5187
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
1125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-20 02:12:24
August 20 2011 02:11 GMT
#38
On August 20 2011 11:10 3FFA wrote:
If you can keep your APM medium(Above 130 or so) with protoss, try out zerg. If you can keep your APM high (above 260 or so) with zerg, try out terran . Thats how my mind figured it out anyways. Note: Results may vary XD

Ya let your spam decide your race.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
August 20 2011 02:18 GMT
#39
On August 20 2011 11:11 muse5187 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 11:10 3FFA wrote:
If you can keep your APM medium(Above 130 or so) with protoss, try out zerg. If you can keep your APM high (above 260 or so) with zerg, try out terran . Thats how my mind figured it out anyways. Note: Results may vary XD

Ya let your spam decide your race.

Woops.... that came out wrong xD. I meant if you can have those APMs you can play those races pretty effectively and just need practice to get pretty good. Note: I love protoss ^^
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 20 2011 04:36 GMT
#40
Thanks for the comments so far everyone ^^

@Caladbolg Thanks for mentioning the function keys, had no clue about those XD
@2Pacalypse Not a bad idae, but, umm, I don't have a hat! hehe, but, I agree with what you said. Try all the three races and settle on one
@3FFA I dunno if I have the 260+ APM for Terran(only hit 110 or so in SCII) but I decided to start with Terran and I think I have a better idea now in terms of how to set my control groups, function keys and such
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
don_kyuhote
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
3006 Posts
August 20 2011 04:40 GMT
#41
On August 20 2011 09:05 kNyTTyM wrote:
Lemme break this down.

If you want to play brood war for some fun as an alternative to sc2, choose Protoss.
If you want the full brood war effect (frustration, depression, absolute hate for all things protoss) play terran.
Zerg is kind of middle of the road. Pretty straight forward through D ranks once you get down a build. Then you hit a couple of terrans that start forcing you to multitask a little and you'll feel the pain.

Boys take the easy route.
Real men face the challenge.
Play Terran
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 20 2011 04:42 GMT
#42
haha, ya, I kinda decided on playing Terran for now. I want to get the full BW effect that I partly got when I used to play a long time back
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-20 05:18:09
August 20 2011 05:14 GMT
#43
A little update: Game against Protoss on python I believe, got rolled by chargelots+dragoons+some dts. Should've pushed out much sooner, but, gave him the chance to macro as well as wanting to learn all the hotkeys and such first

Maybe I'll make a battlereport. I do have to say that I got kinda confused about my structure layout since I can't see it XD but I was able to maintain my macro and exp, etc.... so I feel like I should be much better with more practice and more harass on my part
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
August 20 2011 08:44 GMT
#44
GL dude. I played terran as well and you feel so good when you trounce those scummy protoss players. Also I highly advise against python for tvp purposes. It basically forces a non standard style because the 3rd gas is difficult to secure. My suggestion would be fighting spirit.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
August 20 2011 08:56 GMT
#45
Thanks for the GL wishes. It was the only game I could find but the map was actually fighting spirit v1.3 so it wasn't all that bad
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
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