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It's long. Just need to rant about shit.
When I came to uni, first person I really had a conversation with was Evan. He had a girlfriend at the time, and I had a boyfriend at a nearby school, who I visited every other weekend or so. Evan and I became really close friends, and it was one of those friendships where you try to explain something you're feeling, and the other person just gets it; where we could go on a long walk and come back 2 hours later without having ever said a word, because the silence was so comfortable.
That fall he and his girlfriend of about 4? years broke up, and he went on a bit of a spiral, getting into a disasterous mess with nearly every female friend he had. (He is pretty attractive, smart, funny, sweet, etc.etc. girls like him). Through it all, I was just a friend, and I would tell him how stupid he was being and berate him for treating people like that.
The beginning of second semester I broke up with my boyfriend, but that was a long time coming. We didn't have that much in common, and when we saw each other we had nothing to say. It was a quiet breakup; I cried for a few days and then moved on pretty easy, because honestly at that point, he was no longer part of my life at all, and there wasn't much to miss.
I continued to be there as a friend to Evan, while he was trying to get his shit together, and I was there for me with the difficulties I had with my family. One night I was over in his room until 5 a.m. talking with him about a fight I had with my dad, and it was late, so I ended up sleeping over there. It was just sleeping, but it was comforting to both of us to fall asleep next to someone who we were close to.
At the time, a friend of Evan's was trying to hook him up with a girl, so he took her out a few times, but was rather conflicted because he was feeling physically attracted to me, but feeling like that line shouldn't be crossed since we were 'just friends'. He was really drunk one night and called me to come over to his room, and we made out and got partially unclothed and I left him with a pretty big and uncoverable hickey. (which I do feel bad about but makes me lol every time I remember it)
He was prettttttty pissed at me, because he had to break things off with that other girl, and we didn't talk for a week, but he eventually came around and acknowledged, it was just as much his fault for not stopping me, and we were both in an 'inhibited' state of reason.
By this time, it was nearly the end of the school year, and he was moving to Washington to work for Microsoft that summer. Things were pretty confusing between us. We spent a night together in the hammock our dorm had, talking about things, and he told me he felt like he couldn't start a relationship with me when he as about to leave, and we were both pretty upset about that, but I understood, and there was nothing really to do.
That summer I got into a relationship with a friend of mine I met gaming, and I thought I was over Evan. We still talked daily (as we have been since shortly after we met pretty much), but it was 'just friends', once again.
The night he came back at the end of the summer, he met up with me and we went on a long walk running through the sprinklers around campus and playing catch with old tennis balls at the tennis courts. It took all of two hours for us both to see that we were completely not over each other.
My boyfriend at the time had known how I felt about Evan when we started our relationship, and was convinced I would stop feeling anything for Evan once we were in a relationship. (This is bullshit and I will not make this mistake again, lol.) I am an honest person, so I told him I'm sorry, I tried to make it work with you, I really thought it could, I still have feelings for Evan. He ragequit our relationship and our friendship, and hasn't said a word to me since, but I am not too upset about that now, as he was a bit of a controlling asshole at times, and I was honest with him the whole time.
This past year proved to be a really difficult one, however. Evan was finishing up his masters degree, as he had submatriculated, and needed only a few more classes. So... now he was a GA in my dorm, and if he got caught having a relationship with a student, he would get fired. He was also taking 6 grad level comp sci classes, which was pretty stressful, needless to say, and I was also extremely stressed out by issues with my family, and my own engineering classes.
All of the stress resulted in fighting and not the best semester between the two of us, though there were some high points, like the night we climbed the roof of the engineering building and sat in the rain and looked out over the city. It was very much like a scene from a movie, which we happened to both say to each other at the same time. (which then ruined that feeling, because we started laughing)
The source of much of our fighting that semester was the stress compounded by the fact that even though it wasn't really an open relationship, he was unwilling to consider me his girlfriend. He wasn't sure if it would work out once he left to work at Google in the summer, he wasn't sure if he cared about me more as a friend, or as something else, he worried about his job, he worried about his issues with relationships in the past, etc.etc.. I knew he was exclusive with me, and so I let it go for the time being.
Over Christmas, I had nowhere to go really, so I ended up staying with someone I met gaming, and it was a pretty chill holiday of lying around and eating cheesecake and playing sc2. Evan went on a roadtrip with his other good friend Govinda (male), and they had a long talk about me. Afterwards, Evan said it really made him realize that he didn't want to see me in a relationship with someone else, and he knew things had not been the best the past semester, but he wanted them to improve in the coming semester, and he promised things would be better.
For the most part, they were. He was only taking two classes, I was taking less stressful classes, things with my family were not so volatile, and we fought a /lot/ less. On Valentine's Day, we watched Day9 together (like we do every Monday), and he was super sweet. On his birthday, I bought him an Observer plushie, which was adorable, and made him feel really bad because on my birthday he took me to get a hamburger for lunch (lulz), so the next morning he got super early while I was asleep and went downtown to get me two of the most adorable little piggy banks and glitter sticks (which were honestly probably the best birthday presents I've gotten since I was 6 and got a Cinderella castle). When I got back from Spring Break he said he missed me so much that he drove all the way back to campus from home at 2 a.m. and we drove into the country to look at stars, and I spent the night at his house (meeting his parents the next morning was realllllly lulzy), he took me shopping, we hung out, and then he brought me back to campus with a pan of brownies his mother made. He told his parents I was his girlfriend for simplicity's sake, which he also tended to tell friends from home when they visited. However, he always made it a point with me that I was not his girlfriend because of the previous issues he had.
As the school year was coming to a close, I told him he needed to make his mind up. I had been patient and tolerant for a year, and he needed to make a decision. We had a big fight over that, and he told me he couldn't give me an answer because he was afraid he would move to New York in a few months and then change his mind because of his new job and the distance (which is really only 2 hours by bus, but still I'm not there all the time). So we were back to letting things work themselves out.
Things have been busier but still fine since the school year ended. We spend time together as we can. I slept over at his place last night, got up early to go and get him pain medicine since he sprained his ankle at karate last night, slept for a bit more, and then kissed him goodbye, and went to work around noon.
This evening, we were talking again, and he tells me that he thinks once he starts his new job, he will be in a much different place in his life and have no interest so much in mine, and will be wanting people he can relate to. He says he's not sure we should be friends, as my feelings about him don't seem to change no matter how shittily he treats me and maybe I will just be hurt more, but if we can make things just friends he's willing to try.
For me of course this is a lose-lose situation. I lose him as a lover and he hangs around as a friend, making it harder for me to move on, or we cut things off completely, and I lose my best friend who I can talk to about everything, and spend a lot of time with.
The problem is, besides the sexual part of it, there's no clear line of what is friendship and what is not. He says there need to be clearer boundaries and expectations, but has no idea what they should be. For the past year, his inability to set and maintain clear boundaries and expectations (because he doesn't know how he feels about me/the relationship), have meant that sometimes something is ok, and then the next night he gets really upset at me-- so I am constantly confused, which results in me being hurt/angry a lot. He doesn't have any idea where the line between our friendship and something else is, and doesn't know how to keep things from crossing that line-- so now it's on me again to figuring things out and hope I don't fuck up.
I gave him a boundary-- I never ever want to hear a single word from him about regretting his decision to end our relationship (or whatever we had), about having feelings for me, or any of the doubts/hurt he may have. This is the best I know how to end the conflicting messages I constantly get from him about how he feels about me.
Looking at it now though, I am completely lost about what to do. I don't know where the line is between our friendship and relationship either. I don't know how to move on, and also to regain the friendship we had before. I love him very much as a friend and as more than that, but the way the past year has been, I have a lot of hurt and frustration and anger bottled up in me at how he's treated me. And yes, I know it's my fault too for letting the relationship be dictated by him, but that doesn't change my resentment and hurt.
I have my own issues, trusting people, making close friends. I have moved 13 times in my life, and gone through a lot of shit at home. Good things have passed quickly for me, as have people. Evan is the best friend I have ever had. I am afraid of losing him as a friend because of this relationship shit between us. I am afraid of losing him as a friend when he moves in a month. I don't know how to start over, and figure things out for myself so that I am ready to find someone else.
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I know it sucks losing both a friend and a lover in the same person, but unfortunately it sounds like once he moves he wants different things in his life.
Neither of you are perfect, so don't beat yourself up for any mistakes you think you've made. It sounds like he's the one that's been inconsistent with his affection and behavior towards you in general.
It takes two people to have a healthy relationship. It doesn't sound like you both want the same things.
I'm sorry. I know it hurts, but things will improve with time.
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In my experience, friends/girlfriends who move away become more distant no matter what you do. It just isn't the same as hanging out with them everyday. When you visit them you get a burst of nostalgia but it has an aftertaste of regret. So no matter what you do you'll have to lose a lot of the friendship you had before.
Distance/time can help repair/refresh some relationships too sometimes though. Like if you keep in contact and are willing to accept being this different kind of friend for awhile and just move on and not worry about it, you can move forward in the time you don't see the person. Then after awhile when you have a chance to move closer to them again, you've grown, and because you moved on, you start off fresh if you choose and reevaluate what you want your relationship with them to be (and him the same). Or, you never meet again and it remains that way and you keep moving without meeting them again.
From what you've said it seems like he really wants to move on, so perhaps this is best . Then maybe later down the road when he's settled and has figured out what he's doing/wants and you too, it might change.
This was way more interesting reading from your perspective. I honestly don't have much to add to the friend vs lover part because I've never really run into anything like that yet. I just wish you good luck.
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Wow this is strange. I felt like I did the exact same thing with a girl. I was Evan and I was giving excuses why we could not be together and it was always, "it's me, not you", sort of thing. I would tell her it was impossible because of my "past" too. Hearing it from your side it now, it seems like bullcrap what I was doing and what he is doing to you. And, the sad thing was I was still fucking her WHILE distancing myself and covering my bases.
Yeah, I was an ass and full of it. I am not sure if Evan is doing the same thing or something similar, but no matter what he does do not be so sad or regret the chances you took, because it seems like you had a lot of great and happy moments with him. And girl...I am SURE you will find another charming guy that will sweep you off your feet. Just be patient.
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Well, this sure has me saying in my mind "What the helllllllllll" in that funny little old man voice. Got a girlfriend of over a year, and I'm going to college in the fall while she starts her senior year. I had a feeling that it was gonna be bearable, but this blog chalks up another story that ends... Well, not in a relationship.
Good recounting, by the way. Remember, above all else...
Take it easy.
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LazyMacro: You're sweet; thanks. ^_^ He has said several times to me that he just can't put as much into a relationship with me as I am willing to put in for him.
ketomai: Maybe that is true, and it has been my experience-- but I hate to think that all relationships are doomed to a dependence on proximity. Maybe it's naive, I just want to have some people in my life who are always there, no matter what. It's not going to be my biological family, so I'm searching for friends of that nature instead. Also, you're right. Maybe the distance will actually improve things in the relationship, and make it easier to start over by creating some natural space instead of awkward going out of our way to avoid each other everywhere.
Highlight: We all make mistakes. Hopefully you will do better next time. In a way, yeah he's been an ass, but at the same time, he hasn't deliberately meant to hurt me--it wasn't his intentions. So I can't really stay angry at him for making the wrong decisions, and I can't really be angry at myself for that either. It's part of life.
Kaonis: I heard a little old man voice in my head and I loled. Thanks for that. I would say-- don't give up on your relationship. I don't think relationships end over distance-- I think relationships ending tends to correlate with a move because the distance exposes the fact that the things you had in common were circumstantial. If you trust that you two have a relationship and friendship based on things besides school, and the friends who live in your neighborhoods, etc., your relationship is worth a shot.
And my conclusion is that the best way to combat sadness and distract myself is... sc2, art, and cake. Any other suggestions? XD
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United States4796 Posts
On May 27 2011 17:22 Kaonis wrote: Well, this sure has me saying in my mind "What the helllllllllll" in that funny little old man voice. Got a girlfriend of over a year, and I'm going to college in the fall while she starts her senior year. I had a feeling that it was gonna be bearable, but this blog chalks up another story that ends... Well, not in a relationship.
Good recounting, by the way. Remember, above all else...
Take it easy.
That last thing you said made everything.
In the end, everything will work itself out. For better or worse. That sounds super stupid but in time you will be okay. In the meantime, best of luck. Hope it does work out for you in the end.
StarCraft is good for pain.
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Australia7069 Posts
If "evan" watches day9, he probably reads teamliquid? In which case, why dont you just tell him all this stuff, instead of blogging it in a place he'll probably find and read it?
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On May 27 2011 17:47 RedJustice wrote: And my conclusion is that the best way to combat sadness and distract myself is... sc2, art, and cake. Any other suggestions? XD Hookers and blow, or in this case, gigolos and blow.
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sounds like he just sees u as a good friend that is there for a good time every once in awhile but isn't really that interested in serious relationship.
edit: and by good time i mean any physical things u guys did together, im sure he does like u as a friend but doesnt see u as nething more then that
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i am a male, age 24. i have had sex with a number of girls that i probably cannot recall an exact number. i have never been in a traditional relationship -- never had a girlfriend.
of these girls i've had sex with, the VAST majority of them i actually cared for, wanted to stick around for more than just a one night stand, etc (and many/most did stay around). they all knew they would not be my One True Girl or anything.
it is entirely possible for people to have sex with someone and to genuinely care for and like a person, without wanting to either 1. enter the flawed social construct of monogamy or 2. show their breach of that construct when they are currently playing inside of it with someone else. this says nothing about what they truly think of you.
i know a girl who is married. she got married when she was 18 to her first real (more than two weeks or so) boyfriend she met when she was 17. she is 25 now, and wishes she hadn't gotten married. she realized she was polyamorous but, because of her love for her husband, she does not want to cause him any harm and therefore, she hurts herself and stifles her own desires as a result. when she eventually does embrace her polyamorous ways and is even moderately sexual with others, she is happy... she just needs to ensure her husband does not find out.
the point of the above paragraph is to show you that your love and desire for one person has nothing whatsoever to do with your love and desire for another person, and it is only restricted insofar as the social construct of monogamy restricts it. and it looks like you are trapped there.
don't view it as a personal negative. view it as a societal negative, one that you now have enough experience in to realize its flaws and one you will not participate in in the future.
=)
(edit: if it was not clear, i am analogizing the above to your situation about "but we are just friends!" as a basis for refusal of sexuality, and how all of that etc caused the bullshit you face of someone feeling the need to cut off ALL connection as a result.)
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Afterwards, Evan said it really made him realize that he didn't want to see me in a relationship with someone else...
However, he always made it a point with me that I was not his girlfriend because of the previous issues he had.
who the what now? That's so fucked up. Recognizing that stuff like that is not normal/healthy/ok relationship material should help. If he hasn't apologized for mistreating you, IMO you're getting some major disrespect. While it would be nice to straighten things out, he may care more about "getting space" than making up. Let go of him and secretly forgive him for what he did that made you mad (so you can move on.) If he comes to you with a sincere apology, you could give things another shot. If he doesn't, he's not worth your time :/
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Kiante: He watches streams from TL's stream page, and that's the extent of his foraging on here, lol. And we have talked about these things many times. XD
Huk: Probably, which I wouldn't be so pissed about if he didn't tell me he loved me at various times or that we would try to make things work as an exclusive relationship. If you just want the sex and not the relationship, that's cool, but don't lead people on. :/
annul: It's not that I don't think 'just friends' can't be sexual, it's that we have a sort of emotional relationship as well, that is over the line of friendship, but it's not clear where a friendship line is. And since I love him and shit's confusing enough and he doesn't plan on pursuing a relationship with me, it's easier for me to move on if we cut out the sex.
nanoscorp: I know it's pretty shitty. He's says, sorry you got hurt, but it's your own fault for not leaving the relationship if you were getting hurt. Which, is kinda bullshit lol, like telling someone who is being abused it's their fault for not leaving-- doesn't matter you shouldn't treat someone like that anyway. But at the same time, yes, I did make a mistake in letting him treat me like that. Lesson learned for the future, I guess. XD
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From what you wrote he seems to be ambitious and eager to pursue a career, basically all those years of education have set him up to make a splash at this moment in his life. A relationship, even though it sounds harsh, would only complicate him in achieving his goals.
Especially since you'd be living apart and dealing with different stages of life, there's just not enough incentive to keep things fresh. Relationships take a lot of effort to maintain, even when there's strong feelings involved, and neither of you are in a position to put all your energy into making a relationship work.
Imo, best thing would be to end things on a good note and hope you'll meet again in a couple of years and find there's still a spark.
Best of luck anyways :/
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It seems time is the answer, albeit the one that we want least..
It's incredibly special to have a lover in a best friend or a best friend in a lover, but it's also very difficult to maintain because it can get complicated and theres a lot at stake. And at our age we're not mature or numb enough to just take it as it comes.
Just give it time. No matter what is to happen, you are- and you will be- in a better place after your heart heals.
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That was seriously complicated, and the only advice I have to give is: it's your call. Whether you want to keep the friendship or go further with it is up to him.
I'll use a Starcraft analogy. You can play safe on one base early game and bunker up, or you could expand early which is risky but leads to economic gain. Same principle here, really. It's up to him.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Start of with something light
On Valentine's Day, we watched Day9 together (like we do every Monday), and he was super sweet. On his birthday, I bought him an Observer plushie
You're a hero among the TL community. If some1 got me a plushie shaped like a baneling, I'd marry them
And my conclusion is that the best way to combat sadness and distract myself is... sc2, art, and cake. Any other suggestions? XD
Music is always good. But above all else, spending time with others is a good idea, helps you get your mind off things.
That and ice cream, and milkshake, and State Of the Game. Happy food for happy times! (I go with Maryland cookies and 4v4 DT rushing to make me smile)
But seriously, I read your blog, and I re-read it to make sure I didn't miss it. From what I felt after all that, you are quite possibly the most patient person I have ever seen/read/known about. Nestea would rage before you. If people were that understanding, this world would be a better place.
Yes he's ambitious, and with his goals, he has to be ambitious, but in that situation, he should have just ended it earlier instead of leading you on like that. Sure, you could have ended it yourself, but considering you were the one with the clearer emotions, it should really have been him.
That said, like everyone mentioned, I think time is the best way to heal. Hang with friends, play some Starcraft 2, just take some you-time. Maybe, in a few years, you are both in a position where a relationship is possible, assuming the feelings are still there. But with your personality and incredible gift-choosing powers, I genuinely think you'll be fine, and I hope so as well.
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Actually, this was quite comforting story.
In Starcraft words: if a man isn't 100% all-in, super-infatuated and decisive with you early on, then he'll sooner or later turn out to be maphacker/drophacker/BM or worse. It's simple and brutal, but that's how we, males, work.
That being said, guy was pretty honest and mature to tell you all this... unless he lied, but judging from his behaviour, I think he told you the truth. Not like you should be thankful for this, but being contained in a relationship where you are the only person in love would be godawful.
Combat sadness with some jazz, maybe Charles Mingus or Portico Quartet ezpz.
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Either evan is piss-poor at making up his mind or he's been stringing you along. Either way i don't think you should beat yourself up over it. You made the right decision imo and one that takes a lot of guts at that. TL is proud of you. I just think you need a break from him altogether. If nothing else, it might help clear your mind.
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There's a pretty general technique for dealing with situations like this, which will probably help.
First, you have to know what you want to have happen given who he is. Ignore for now what is and isn't feasible. Is your dream to have him be your boyfriend? Or do you think you would rather go with someone else? Don't consider things like you want him to be your boyfriend but these things have to change first. That is likely to just leave you in a situation where you aren't satisfied but think you want to be there.
Next, you should consider where he stands and what he wants. If he doesn't want what you want, then it's not going to happen and you'll have to deal with that. If he doesn't know what he wants, then things will always be mediocre until he figures it out, at which point either he'll break up with you or things will get better. But if you let the status quo stand then he might never decide to figure out what he wants, and then you'll be left in limbo forever, which is arguably worse than either alternative.
From your post, it sounds like he doesn't know what he wants from you. And it's not clear if you know what you want from him. You need to take a break from each other and both think about yourselves and figure out what you want. Then you can decide what to do much better.
If you both decide that you want to be lovers, then great! Now you have to figure out how to make it work, but you'll both be happy to make some sacrifices because you want to.
If you decide that you want to be lovers and he doesn't, then you have to consider whether you can deal with him being your friend still. It's completely possible that the answer to that will be no for a while, maybe even a long while.
If it's the other way around, then you should realize that he might not be ready to deal with you being there as a friend and you should need to accommodate for that.
If both of you would rather you just be friends, then you'll both be able to move on much easier, knowing that nothing was really lost.
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United States22883 Posts
This evening, we were talking again, and he tells me that he thinks once he starts his new job, he will be in a much different place in his life and have no interest so much in mine, and will be wanting people he can relate to. He says he's not sure we should be friends, as my feelings about him don't seem to change no matter how shittily he treats me and maybe I will just be hurt more, but if we can make things just friends he's willing to try. I may be going out on a limb on this, but I think this is one of those stupid things young men say when they're trying to be responsible. It's idiotic and wrong, but he probably doesn't know that now. He's probably saying to himself that it's worth causing you pain as a friend, as long as he doesn't cause you future pain as a girlfriend, which is kind of a death sentence for things until he realizes he's wrong.
Sorry, but it sounds like you don't have much control over the relationship in the immediate future. I think you should stop and move on quickly. He'll regret saying that, but at this stage you should just take care of yourself.
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On May 27 2011 22:59 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +This evening, we were talking again, and he tells me that he thinks once he starts his new job, he will be in a much different place in his life and have no interest so much in mine, and will be wanting people he can relate to. He says he's not sure we should be friends, as my feelings about him don't seem to change no matter how shittily he treats me and maybe I will just be hurt more, but if we can make things just friends he's willing to try. I may be going out on a limb on this, but I think this is one of those stupid things young men say when they're trying to be responsible. It's idiotic and wrong, but he probably doesn't know that now. He's probably saying to himself that it's worth causing you pain as a friend, as long as he doesn't cause you future pain as a girlfriend, which is kind of a death sentence for things until he realizes he's wrong. Sorry, but it sounds like you don't have much control over the relationship in the immediate future. I think you should stop and move on quickly. He'll regret saying that, but at this stage you should just take care of yourself.
Lol, it has always been my opinion that when people say-- I don't want to hurt you so ____ (insert hurtful thing here)-- they are just trying make themselves feel less guilty about their decision instead of owning it. So yeah I agree with you there.
A relationship of any kind takes two. If he doesn't want to be involved with me as a boyfriend or even just a friend, there is nothing I can do, and I understand that. Part of me wants him to realize he made a mistake after a while, but realistically, he is very stubborn, and maybe he is just not emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship/needs to work through issues from prior relationships still. Just want to figure out how to get over him and move on to other things. I mean... obviously I put up with shit for a year, and I really care about him, so is hard to just be over him. Especially trying to maintain our close friendship simultaneously. >.>
I really appreciate the kind replies to this thread everyone. ^_^ They cheer me up a lot.
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As a writer of a girl blog I find your story pretty interesting. I'm also going through something very similar right now although with several changeups. I'd reveal more but I'm saving that for my blog , plus the story is far from over.
First of all, that "I don't want to ruin our friendship" thing is bull crap on Evan's part. If a guy is presented with a girl he gets along with and he finds her physically attractive, then she is slated into the 'potential girlfriend' category immediately unless there is something barring him from doing so. I'd immediately date any one of my female friends in that category if they were available.
Evan is an indecisive person, and that should be a very unattractive quality in a guy. A real man knows what he wants and, if he is able, goes after it. There are likely other factors to do with you that are making him indecisive. I don't know if it's you, or your family situation, or what, but something is barring him from committing directly to you. His career is also a major factor. His career is the sure-fire thing and you are not.
Trying to remain friends means that one of you is hanging on to something, hoping it will result in a relationship again one day. There is nothing wrong with that, but you should at least acknowledge the reason.
You could also try a full confession if you haven't already. Any man who liked a girl would kill for that, because it takes all the stupid uncertainty and beating-around-the-bush and completely removes it and the awkwardness that comes with it. If at that point he's still indecisive then I guess you're out of luck. Finding someone else should be pretty easy for you though: you're an engineer and you play Starcraft, which makes you instantly more interesting than most girls out there. If you're attractive too, you should have 0 trouble.
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soo much drama and complications Oo
simple question: what's your dream way for this to go?
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MisterD: Err dream way for this to go is Day9 appears out of nowhere in my blog and asks me to MLG Columbus. :D (Is there anyone sexier than that man?)
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Well send him a pic and ask him if he wouldn't by any chance like to take you? ;p I don't think he can do that if he's on the casting team though, but who knows
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I'm not sure what the exact timeline is but it looks like you could have been together for at least a year in school? I really think you guys should have tried that from the start as opposed to pushing and pulling and making things unnecessarily complicated. I think you already know if you could do it again you should give him an ultimatum. But those are lessons learned I suppose..
Going forward I'd say it doesn't look bright if you're far apart because you can never go back to that old platonic friendship and if you were to start a relationship now it would be an uphill battle because even though you've spent so much time together, your roles truly change when you're officially in a relationship. Just speaking from personal experience.
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On May 27 2011 23:27 TheGiz wrote: If a guy is presented with a girl he gets along with and he finds her physically attractive, then she is slated into the 'potential girlfriend' category immediately unless there is something barring him from doing so.
not true, at all.
girlfriend != FWB/etc.
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should have written "suggests i asks you to ask me" but that's fine too.
(PS why is anything i can think of to not make this post a one-liner just rubbish? well i'll leave it at that then.)
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On May 28 2011 00:01 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 23:27 TheGiz wrote: If a guy is presented with a girl he gets along with and he finds her physically attractive, then she is slated into the 'potential girlfriend' category immediately unless there is something barring him from doing so. not true, at all. girlfriend != FWB/etc. Lol I saw FWB as "forward base".
There's so much drama in this blog.
I actually don't see the big problem. Evan doesn't want to be in a relationship with you and he is leaving, all you can do is move on too. Just don't look back.
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On May 28 2011 00:13 MisterD wrote: should have written "suggests i asks you to ask me" but that's fine too.
(PS why is anything i can think of to not make this post a one-liner just rubbish? well i'll leave it at that then.)
I agree. :p Still, will have to see if he responds, hahaha.
Writing has been helping me quite a bit..
To keep things short: My ex/gf/I don't know anymore is in Seatlle taking care of her mother, who's been having some medical issues. And we've kinda been the same way, Together, but not really, and then things are good again, and then they aren't....So a little different, but what I'm getting at is that sometimes life drags people who aren't totally over each other apart. I don't think she or I were totally over each other, or were ready to end things.
We never really broke up I don't think. Things have just petered out into talking once or twice a week. It was painful, initially. Personally, I use music mostly, but I also write a lot when I'm upset. Over anything, really. That or play Dwarf Fortress hahaha. FUN.
Just write about anything, something you like or are interested in. It'll keep your mind focused on a topic you enjoy, it'll cheer you up! I wrote a life story of a marine, once. This assumes that you enjoy writing stories and such.
Just...time, and keep yourself occupied. It's the idle time where your mind starts to wander and potentially brings old things back forth. Sooner or later you'll be able to think back on things and not get upset about it, but remember them as good memories! :D
PS - Love your hair. I'm jealous. :p
On May 28 2011 00:38 obesechicken13 wrote:Lol I saw FWB as "forward base".
Actually a girlfriend could kinda be like a forward base. First line of defense against mean people on the internet (oh yeah well I have a gf you stupid noob - I KNOW you guys have seen that bm...hopefully not done it) and as long as you don't lose it, you're way ahead! :p
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Well Red I am really sorry to to here about this. I guess I wont yell at you for a wile for brood lord rushing me. But bring the light in to the sinter of your being ... if you know ware sinter is ... ma by that would be a good place to start finding your sinter. Once you have balance within you then you can look out word .
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This might be the first "boy" blog I've read on TL. Kind of refreshing I suppose, since the content doesn't have to deal with a guy not having enough balls to make the next obvious move. Oh wait...
You said Evan broke up with his (now ex-)girlfriend of 4 years? That might have done more damage than anyone else can imagine. Sounds like he turned sort of misogynistic in all. I think I've had a similar experience. My ex-gf broke up with me in grade 12 (high school senior year) and because it was an one-sided breakup, I took a huge hit - and I pretty much messed around with whatever chick I could find in university for at least the first two years. Not that I could find a big flock (my major is engineering as well) but the point is, the concept of having another relationship just never sparked in my head/heart.
So it might take Evan more time to come together. For me it took just one strange moment to realize what a fool I was and how lonely I was inside in the past few years. If you truly want him with you (as a friend or more) in the future, I think giving him time is a good option. You could also get in touch with his close friends so that you don't lose contact completely. From what I've read it seems like you've done a lot for him during his hard times, and I believe he'll come to a realization sometime soon.
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I'm sad that things didn't work out. There are too few gamer couples out there, and even fewer successful ones.
I've tried the long distance thing several times before but it never worked out. My longest long distance relationship lasted for almost a year until she decided to break it off. Its tough to not be able to be there physically for someone you love. For us it was only a three hour drive, which wasn't a big problem at first, but it got more and more difficult as time went on. I think long term relationships are doable in the short term, but not the long.
Its sucks but I think the best way to go is to cut contact completely until both of you find someone else. After that it'll be easier to rekindle your friendship and establish boundaries. Thats what I did with the ex I mentioned above, and it worked out great for us. Five years later and she's still my best friend. It can get a bit difficult when we're both single but we make it work out.
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He's fucking you about and it isn't meant to be. Move on.
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Just adding my advice to the pile I guess. Just want to say that I think I know how you feel-- I was/am (more on this later) also in a long relationship, also shared a ton of interests so he was my best friend as well as my boyfriend, also had a "break-up" spurred by him moving away. The break-up wasn't completely shocking to me, but I still surprised myself by being extremely sad about it. Even though logically it made sense (and I try to be rational), I spent 16 hours a day with him and it's cute when you say, "I spend all my time with my bf" but not cute when you say, "I spend all my time alone," which I would essentially be doing because he was my gaming buddy.
So I know that it's a ridiculously large loss and now your free time just gaps before you and you feel really empty. From here there are 2 paths:
ONE: If this is to be a real break-up, I suggest you follow my friend's lead (who exited a 4-yr long-distance relationship due to his gf's wishes, leaving him devastated) and make sure you spend most of your time with your friends/focusing on some goal (in his case, turtle-farming in FFXIII, ending with 100% completion of the game). Just something to fill the void of time your bf used to fill. Otherwise it's easy to become a messy goop of tears and emotions. Or:
TWO: In my case, we got back together. The thing was, he literally moved back in a few days because the reason he moved (no job) disappeared (job!). Then we tried to be "just friends," but as someone stated above, that's really difficult with all the past history. Where are the boundaries? Eventually he wanted to get back together, but I was reserved because I don't like it when others waffle in and out of the same relationship. I ended up going on a vacation with another male friend (purely platonic--in fact, the aforementioned turtle-farmer) and after 1 week realized constant exposure to him was really annoying. Right, after 1 week I felt more negatively about him than I did about my bf after 4 years! (And I'd known them both for the same amount of time.) THAT'S when I realized that it's actually really, really hard to find a person you connect with, and quite honestly, can live with. So we got back together.
It depends on your evaluation of your relationship up til now. It seems as if Evan may not come back, so the first route may be advisable, but if you think it's really worth it and there's a chance Evan will grow up (right now he kind of seems like a waffler) then maybe keep in touch with him. But still look around and try to validate your position that Evan is "the one"--for me, that's what helped me decide.
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Red! i love you! :D
Keep strong! your going to be ok! your smart funny and super cool (is that creepy that i know that?!)
But for real just keep your head up, i know its a "religious" point of view but really, if God wants you two together he'll make it happen, i can tell he makes you happy and that he is a great guy! you just need to keep strong and smile.
Remember, RELAX! I've been told that by a really cool girl and she knows whats up
So Red, in all i think you need to do what you really feel needs to happen and what is best for the both of you, i know it is a hard decision and i understand your pain!
You Got this girl!
CholmesInk!
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god damn females really do remember EVERYTHING. thanks for this, i'll watch what i do now
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I wanted to type up a detailed reply explaining what I'm going to say, and I tried, but I couldn't get it to come out right.....
Basically, I was in Evan's shoes about 3 years ago. Me and S (I'll only use the initial here) were good friends for 10+ years, then one night we ended up getting drunk, we went back to her place (which was not unusual), and then we fucked (which had never happened before), we basically fucked up any shot at regaining that "friendship only" thing, yet the relationship thing didn't work out either when we gave it a shot. And it turns out that she had feelings for me for years, and didn't let me know about it (and looking back at it, I was really, really fucking stupid to not see it)..... Further complicating things was the fact that I was about to move 500km away to university, and she was attending a college at home, so distance was suddenly going to be a factor.
I hated the indecisiveness that it caused me, and we flopped between trying to make the distance thing work out, and going back to the "just friends" thing we had before. Neither were working out well.....
After about a year and a half ago, with no end in sight while going along with the status quo, I ended up doing something drastic to end it. I did something specific that I knew would make her hate me. Because I figured that it was the best way to resolve everything. No, I didn't physically harm anyone, or do anything illegal, but I knew her well enough to know exactly how to push that DO NOT PUSH button she had.
I really, really dislike being indecisive, and it was really bothering me. To get away from that, I started putting a lot more concentration into other things, to give me something to focus on. I ended up going from a mediocre D player in BW to C- in a very short period of time, due to this.
She hasn't spoken to or contacted me in any way since then, and I don't blame her. I don't really regret the decision, because I still don't see what else I could have done, but at the same time, I hate that I did it, because not only did I lose a very good friend (we'd seen each other through some tough times), but a bunch of mutual friends in the process. Because I came off as a total asshole in the process.
Very few people know that I actually planned it (especially since I'm a very impulsive person, and what I did seems to be very impulsive), because if she found out, well, I don't really want her to find out..... I still think it's better for both of us this way. At least for now.
I hope your situation has a better ending than mine does.....
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Well the way i see it , in the worst case you date him long distance ("date") or whatever your relationship is you break up , destroying your friendship.
The way your describe it , obviously evan will come up as a jackass in our eyes since we dont share the same history with him as you do. Generally you have 2 options and you should pick the less sucky one , sucks doesn't it? So he is either using you physically because he doesnt see you as something more than a friend or has serious commitment issues , or would choose his job over you ( from my brief judgement and your twitter a beautiful , smart girl which shares the same passion as him ( gaming ) and sees the bigger picture . In all of the above , it seems to me he doesnt appreciate you enough and as soon as you move on , he will come begging you to take him.
As a conclusion , from my brief description you are every guys dream girl, I fail to see how you will not find an Evan who appreciates you as much as you deserve in no time.
TLDR: Move on , you owe it to yourself
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Relationships are a two way street, and it seems he doesn't feel exactly the same way. You can either be patient hoping he will realize one day (that's a fantasy) or move on. It's probably best to move on.
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my story is different, but im sitting pretty much in the exact same position (from a male perspective).
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On May 27 2011 16:30 RedJustice wrote:
...
This evening, we were talking again, and he tells me that he thinks once he starts his new job, he will be in a much different place in his life and have no interest so much in mine, and will be wanting people he can relate to. He says he's not sure we should be friends, as my feelings about him don't seem to change no matter how shittily he treats me and maybe I will just be hurt more, but if we can make things just friends he's willing to try.
... but has no idea what they should be. For the past year, his inability to set and maintain clear boundaries and expectations...
...He doesn't have any idea where the line between our friendship and something else is, and doesn't know how to keep things from crossing that line-- so now it's on me again to figuring things out and hope I don't fuck up...
This decision is a no-brainer, at least from an outside perspective. Move on.
The guy is in complete flux and needs a good dose of maturity. He will eventually come to this on his own, but is it fair to wait for him?
You don't deserve to be treated the way he's treating you. You can keep going and MAYBE it will work out, or you can do yourself right and not depend on another person to enable your own happiness. It almost seems like you're saying "If only he'd change himself we'd be perfect", but as I learned years ago, "just as you can't change somebody, it's unreasonable to wait for them to change themselves".
I'm especially disturbed at the last line I quoted. It's an unhealthy mindset to hope you don't screw up. Relationships are two-way streets. It's not up for you to figure things out and if things don't work out it's rarely one person's fault.
In closing, tell him you can't be together. Ever. If necessary, practice on something cute like a teacup pig. Stop doing this to yourself and hold out for a better future with someone else.
Edit: A note on long distance relationships: They ONLY work out when both parties are 100% committed and fight against human nature to stay together. If he can't make up his mind now there's no way he could stay that committed (instead, he'd get so detached that breaking up would be easy - happened to me twice). Final recommendation still the same- move on!
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On May 27 2011 16:30 RedJustice wrote: It's long. Just need to rant about shit.
When I came to uni, first person I really had a conversation with was Evan. He had a girlfriend at the time, and I had a boyfriend at a nearby school, who I visited every other weekend or so. Evan and I became really close friends, and it was one of those friendships where you try to explain something you're feeling, and the other person just gets it; where we could go on a long walk and come back 2 hours later without having ever said a word, because the silence was so comfortable.
That fall he and his girlfriend of about 4? years broke up, and he went on a bit of a spiral, getting into a disasterous mess with nearly every female friend he had. (He is pretty attractive, smart, funny, sweet, etc.etc. girls like him). Through it all, I was just a friend, and I would tell him how stupid he was being and berate him for treating people like that.
The beginning of second semester I broke up with my boyfriend, but that was a long time coming. We didn't have that much in common, and when we saw each other we had nothing to say. It was a quiet breakup; I cried for a few days and then moved on pretty easy, because honestly at that point, he was no longer part of my life at all, and there wasn't much to miss.
I continued to be there as a friend to Evan, while he was trying to get his shit together, and I was there for me with the difficulties I had with my family. One night I was over in his room until 5 a.m. talking with him about a fight I had with my dad, and it was late, so I ended up sleeping over there. It was just sleeping, but it was comforting to both of us to fall asleep next to someone who we were close to.
At the time, a friend of Evan's was trying to hook him up with a girl, so he took her out a few times, but was rather conflicted because he was feeling physically attracted to me, but feeling like that line shouldn't be crossed since we were 'just friends'. He was really drunk one night and called me to come over to his room, and we made out and got partially unclothed and I left him with a pretty big and uncoverable hickey. (which I do feel bad about but makes me lol every time I remember it)
He was prettttttty pissed at me, because he had to break things off with that other girl, and we didn't talk for a week, but he eventually came around and acknowledged, it was just as much his fault for not stopping me, and we were both in an 'inhibited' state of reason.
By this time, it was nearly the end of the school year, and he was moving to Washington to work for Microsoft that summer. Things were pretty confusing between us. We spent a night together in the hammock our dorm had, talking about things, and he told me he felt like he couldn't start a relationship with me when he as about to leave, and we were both pretty upset about that, but I understood, and there was nothing really to do.
That summer I got into a relationship with a friend of mine I met gaming, and I thought I was over Evan. We still talked daily (as we have been since shortly after we met pretty much), but it was 'just friends', once again.
The night he came back at the end of the summer, he met up with me and we went on a long walk running through the sprinklers around campus and playing catch with old tennis balls at the tennis courts. It took all of two hours for us both to see that we were completely not over each other.
My boyfriend at the time had known how I felt about Evan when we started our relationship, and was convinced I would stop feeling anything for Evan once we were in a relationship. (This is bullshit and I will not make this mistake again, lol.) I am an honest person, so I told him I'm sorry, I tried to make it work with you, I really thought it could, I still have feelings for Evan. He ragequit our relationship and our friendship, and hasn't said a word to me since, but I am not too upset about that now, as he was a bit of a controlling asshole at times, and I was honest with him the whole time.
This past year proved to be a really difficult one, however. Evan was finishing up his masters degree, as he had submatriculated, and needed only a few more classes. So... now he was a GA in my dorm, and if he got caught having a relationship with a student, he would get fired. He was also taking 6 grad level comp sci classes, which was pretty stressful, needless to say, and I was also extremely stressed out by issues with my family, and my own engineering classes.
All of the stress resulted in fighting and not the best semester between the two of us, though there were some high points, like the night we climbed the roof of the engineering building and sat in the rain and looked out over the city. It was very much like a scene from a movie, which we happened to both say to each other at the same time. (which then ruined that feeling, because we started laughing)
The source of much of our fighting that semester was the stress compounded by the fact that even though it wasn't really an open relationship, he was unwilling to consider me his girlfriend. He wasn't sure if it would work out once he left to work at Google in the summer, he wasn't sure if he cared about me more as a friend, or as something else, he worried about his job, he worried about his issues with relationships in the past, etc.etc.. I knew he was exclusive with me, and so I let it go for the time being.
Over Christmas, I had nowhere to go really, so I ended up staying with someone I met gaming, and it was a pretty chill holiday of lying around and eating cheesecake and playing sc2. Evan went on a roadtrip with his other good friend Govinda (male), and they had a long talk about me. Afterwards, Evan said it really made him realize that he didn't want to see me in a relationship with someone else, and he knew things had not been the best the past semester, but he wanted them to improve in the coming semester, and he promised things would be better.
For the most part, they were. He was only taking two classes, I was taking less stressful classes, things with my family were not so volatile, and we fought a /lot/ less. On Valentine's Day, we watched Day9 together (like we do every Monday), and he was super sweet. On his birthday, I bought him an Observer plushie, which was adorable, and made him feel really bad because on my birthday he took me to get a hamburger for lunch (lulz), so the next morning he got super early while I was asleep and went downtown to get me two of the most adorable little piggy banks and glitter sticks (which were honestly probably the best birthday presents I've gotten since I was 6 and got a Cinderella castle). When I got back from Spring Break he said he missed me so much that he drove all the way back to campus from home at 2 a.m. and we drove into the country to look at stars, and I spent the night at his house (meeting his parents the next morning was realllllly lulzy), he took me shopping, we hung out, and then he brought me back to campus with a pan of brownies his mother made. He told his parents I was his girlfriend for simplicity's sake, which he also tended to tell friends from home when they visited. However, he always made it a point with me that I was not his girlfriend because of the previous issues he had.
As the school year was coming to a close, I told him he needed to make his mind up. I had been patient and tolerant for a year, and he needed to make a decision. We had a big fight over that, and he told me he couldn't give me an answer because he was afraid he would move to New York in a few months and then change his mind because of his new job and the distance (which is really only 2 hours by bus, but still I'm not there all the time). So we were back to letting things work themselves out.
Things have been busier but still fine since the school year ended. We spend time together as we can. I slept over at his place last night, got up early to go and get him pain medicine since he sprained his ankle at karate last night, slept for a bit more, and then kissed him goodbye, and went to work around noon.
This evening, we were talking again, and he tells me that he thinks once he starts his new job, he will be in a much different place in his life and have no interest so much in mine, and will be wanting people he can relate to. He says he's not sure we should be friends, as my feelings about him don't seem to change no matter how shittily he treats me and maybe I will just be hurt more, but if we can make things just friends he's willing to try.
For me of course this is a lose-lose situation. I lose him as a lover and he hangs around as a friend, making it harder for me to move on, or we cut things off completely, and I lose my best friend who I can talk to about everything, and spend a lot of time with.
The problem is, besides the sexual part of it, there's no clear line of what is friendship and what is not. He says there need to be clearer boundaries and expectations, but has no idea what they should be. For the past year, his inability to set and maintain clear boundaries and expectations (because he doesn't know how he feels about me/the relationship), have meant that sometimes something is ok, and then the next night he gets really upset at me-- so I am constantly confused, which results in me being hurt/angry a lot. He doesn't have any idea where the line between our friendship and something else is, and doesn't know how to keep things from crossing that line-- so now it's on me again to figuring things out and hope I don't fuck up.
I gave him a boundary-- I never ever want to hear a single word from him about regretting his decision to end our relationship (or whatever we had), about having feelings for me, or any of the doubts/hurt he may have. This is the best I know how to end the conflicting messages I constantly get from him about how he feels about me.
Looking at it now though, I am completely lost about what to do. I don't know where the line is between our friendship and relationship either. I don't know how to move on, and also to regain the friendship we had before. I love him very much as a friend and as more than that, but the way the past year has been, I have a lot of hurt and frustration and anger bottled up in me at how he's treated me. And yes, I know it's my fault too for letting the relationship be dictated by him, but that doesn't change my resentment and hurt.
I have my own issues, trusting people, making close friends. I have moved 13 times in my life, and gone through a lot of shit at home. Good things have passed quickly for me, as have people. Evan is the best friend I have ever had. I am afraid of losing him as a friend because of this relationship shit between us. I am afraid of losing him as a friend when he moves in a month. I don't know how to start over, and figure things out for myself so that I am ready to find someone else.
Looks like the general consensus is that you're a winner and moving on is best
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