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It's long. Just need to rant about shit.
When I came to uni, first person I really had a conversation with was Evan. He had a girlfriend at the time, and I had a boyfriend at a nearby school, who I visited every other weekend or so. Evan and I became really close friends, and it was one of those friendships where you try to explain something you're feeling, and the other person just gets it; where we could go on a long walk and come back 2 hours later without having ever said a word, because the silence was so comfortable.
That fall he and his girlfriend of about 4? years broke up, and he went on a bit of a spiral, getting into a disasterous mess with nearly every female friend he had. (He is pretty attractive, smart, funny, sweet, etc.etc. girls like him). Through it all, I was just a friend, and I would tell him how stupid he was being and berate him for treating people like that.
The beginning of second semester I broke up with my boyfriend, but that was a long time coming. We didn't have that much in common, and when we saw each other we had nothing to say. It was a quiet breakup; I cried for a few days and then moved on pretty easy, because honestly at that point, he was no longer part of my life at all, and there wasn't much to miss.
I continued to be there as a friend to Evan, while he was trying to get his shit together, and I was there for me with the difficulties I had with my family. One night I was over in his room until 5 a.m. talking with him about a fight I had with my dad, and it was late, so I ended up sleeping over there. It was just sleeping, but it was comforting to both of us to fall asleep next to someone who we were close to.
At the time, a friend of Evan's was trying to hook him up with a girl, so he took her out a few times, but was rather conflicted because he was feeling physically attracted to me, but feeling like that line shouldn't be crossed since we were 'just friends'. He was really drunk one night and called me to come over to his room, and we made out and got partially unclothed and I left him with a pretty big and uncoverable hickey. (which I do feel bad about but makes me lol every time I remember it)
He was prettttttty pissed at me, because he had to break things off with that other girl, and we didn't talk for a week, but he eventually came around and acknowledged, it was just as much his fault for not stopping me, and we were both in an 'inhibited' state of reason.
By this time, it was nearly the end of the school year, and he was moving to Washington to work for Microsoft that summer. Things were pretty confusing between us. We spent a night together in the hammock our dorm had, talking about things, and he told me he felt like he couldn't start a relationship with me when he as about to leave, and we were both pretty upset about that, but I understood, and there was nothing really to do.
That summer I got into a relationship with a friend of mine I met gaming, and I thought I was over Evan. We still talked daily (as we have been since shortly after we met pretty much), but it was 'just friends', once again.
The night he came back at the end of the summer, he met up with me and we went on a long walk running through the sprinklers around campus and playing catch with old tennis balls at the tennis courts. It took all of two hours for us both to see that we were completely not over each other.
My boyfriend at the time had known how I felt about Evan when we started our relationship, and was convinced I would stop feeling anything for Evan once we were in a relationship. (This is bullshit and I will not make this mistake again, lol.) I am an honest person, so I told him I'm sorry, I tried to make it work with you, I really thought it could, I still have feelings for Evan. He ragequit our relationship and our friendship, and hasn't said a word to me since, but I am not too upset about that now, as he was a bit of a controlling asshole at times, and I was honest with him the whole time.
This past year proved to be a really difficult one, however. Evan was finishing up his masters degree, as he had submatriculated, and needed only a few more classes. So... now he was a GA in my dorm, and if he got caught having a relationship with a student, he would get fired. He was also taking 6 grad level comp sci classes, which was pretty stressful, needless to say, and I was also extremely stressed out by issues with my family, and my own engineering classes.
All of the stress resulted in fighting and not the best semester between the two of us, though there were some high points, like the night we climbed the roof of the engineering building and sat in the rain and looked out over the city. It was very much like a scene from a movie, which we happened to both say to each other at the same time. (which then ruined that feeling, because we started laughing)
The source of much of our fighting that semester was the stress compounded by the fact that even though it wasn't really an open relationship, he was unwilling to consider me his girlfriend. He wasn't sure if it would work out once he left to work at Google in the summer, he wasn't sure if he cared about me more as a friend, or as something else, he worried about his job, he worried about his issues with relationships in the past, etc.etc.. I knew he was exclusive with me, and so I let it go for the time being.
Over Christmas, I had nowhere to go really, so I ended up staying with someone I met gaming, and it was a pretty chill holiday of lying around and eating cheesecake and playing sc2. Evan went on a roadtrip with his other good friend Govinda (male), and they had a long talk about me. Afterwards, Evan said it really made him realize that he didn't want to see me in a relationship with someone else, and he knew things had not been the best the past semester, but he wanted them to improve in the coming semester, and he promised things would be better.
For the most part, they were. He was only taking two classes, I was taking less stressful classes, things with my family were not so volatile, and we fought a /lot/ less. On Valentine's Day, we watched Day9 together (like we do every Monday), and he was super sweet. On his birthday, I bought him an Observer plushie, which was adorable, and made him feel really bad because on my birthday he took me to get a hamburger for lunch (lulz), so the next morning he got super early while I was asleep and went downtown to get me two of the most adorable little piggy banks and glitter sticks (which were honestly probably the best birthday presents I've gotten since I was 6 and got a Cinderella castle). When I got back from Spring Break he said he missed me so much that he drove all the way back to campus from home at 2 a.m. and we drove into the country to look at stars, and I spent the night at his house (meeting his parents the next morning was realllllly lulzy), he took me shopping, we hung out, and then he brought me back to campus with a pan of brownies his mother made. He told his parents I was his girlfriend for simplicity's sake, which he also tended to tell friends from home when they visited. However, he always made it a point with me that I was not his girlfriend because of the previous issues he had.
As the school year was coming to a close, I told him he needed to make his mind up. I had been patient and tolerant for a year, and he needed to make a decision. We had a big fight over that, and he told me he couldn't give me an answer because he was afraid he would move to New York in a few months and then change his mind because of his new job and the distance (which is really only 2 hours by bus, but still I'm not there all the time). So we were back to letting things work themselves out.
Things have been busier but still fine since the school year ended. We spend time together as we can. I slept over at his place last night, got up early to go and get him pain medicine since he sprained his ankle at karate last night, slept for a bit more, and then kissed him goodbye, and went to work around noon.
This evening, we were talking again, and he tells me that he thinks once he starts his new job, he will be in a much different place in his life and have no interest so much in mine, and will be wanting people he can relate to. He says he's not sure we should be friends, as my feelings about him don't seem to change no matter how shittily he treats me and maybe I will just be hurt more, but if we can make things just friends he's willing to try.
For me of course this is a lose-lose situation. I lose him as a lover and he hangs around as a friend, making it harder for me to move on, or we cut things off completely, and I lose my best friend who I can talk to about everything, and spend a lot of time with.
The problem is, besides the sexual part of it, there's no clear line of what is friendship and what is not. He says there need to be clearer boundaries and expectations, but has no idea what they should be. For the past year, his inability to set and maintain clear boundaries and expectations (because he doesn't know how he feels about me/the relationship), have meant that sometimes something is ok, and then the next night he gets really upset at me-- so I am constantly confused, which results in me being hurt/angry a lot. He doesn't have any idea where the line between our friendship and something else is, and doesn't know how to keep things from crossing that line-- so now it's on me again to figuring things out and hope I don't fuck up.
I gave him a boundary-- I never ever want to hear a single word from him about regretting his decision to end our relationship (or whatever we had), about having feelings for me, or any of the doubts/hurt he may have. This is the best I know how to end the conflicting messages I constantly get from him about how he feels about me.
Looking at it now though, I am completely lost about what to do. I don't know where the line is between our friendship and relationship either. I don't know how to move on, and also to regain the friendship we had before. I love him very much as a friend and as more than that, but the way the past year has been, I have a lot of hurt and frustration and anger bottled up in me at how he's treated me. And yes, I know it's my fault too for letting the relationship be dictated by him, but that doesn't change my resentment and hurt.
I have my own issues, trusting people, making close friends. I have moved 13 times in my life, and gone through a lot of shit at home. Good things have passed quickly for me, as have people. Evan is the best friend I have ever had. I am afraid of losing him as a friend because of this relationship shit between us. I am afraid of losing him as a friend when he moves in a month. I don't know how to start over, and figure things out for myself so that I am ready to find someone else.
  
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I know it sucks losing both a friend and a lover in the same person, but unfortunately it sounds like once he moves he wants different things in his life.
Neither of you are perfect, so don't beat yourself up for any mistakes you think you've made. It sounds like he's the one that's been inconsistent with his affection and behavior towards you in general.
It takes two people to have a healthy relationship. It doesn't sound like you both want the same things.
I'm sorry. I know it hurts, but things will improve with time.
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In my experience, friends/girlfriends who move away become more distant no matter what you do. It just isn't the same as hanging out with them everyday. When you visit them you get a burst of nostalgia but it has an aftertaste of regret. So no matter what you do you'll have to lose a lot of the friendship you had before.
Distance/time can help repair/refresh some relationships too sometimes though. Like if you keep in contact and are willing to accept being this different kind of friend for awhile and just move on and not worry about it, you can move forward in the time you don't see the person. Then after awhile when you have a chance to move closer to them again, you've grown, and because you moved on, you start off fresh if you choose and reevaluate what you want your relationship with them to be (and him the same). Or, you never meet again and it remains that way and you keep moving without meeting them again.
From what you've said it seems like he really wants to move on, so perhaps this is best  . Then maybe later down the road when he's settled and has figured out what he's doing/wants and you too, it might change.
This was way more interesting reading from your perspective. I honestly don't have much to add to the friend vs lover part because I've never really run into anything like that yet. I just wish you good luck.
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Wow this is strange. I felt like I did the exact same thing with a girl. I was Evan and I was giving excuses why we could not be together and it was always, "it's me, not you", sort of thing. I would tell her it was impossible because of my "past" too. Hearing it from your side it now, it seems like bullcrap what I was doing and what he is doing to you. And, the sad thing was I was still fucking her WHILE distancing myself and covering my bases.
Yeah, I was an ass and full of it. I am not sure if Evan is doing the same thing or something similar, but no matter what he does do not be so sad or regret the chances you took, because it seems like you had a lot of great and happy moments with him. And girl...I am SURE you will find another charming guy that will sweep you off your feet. Just be patient.
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Well, this sure has me saying in my mind "What the helllllllllll" in that funny little old man voice. Got a girlfriend of over a year, and I'm going to college in the fall while she starts her senior year. I had a feeling that it was gonna be bearable, but this blog chalks up another story that ends... Well, not in a relationship.
Good recounting, by the way. Remember, above all else...
Take it easy.
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LazyMacro: You're sweet; thanks. ^_^ He has said several times to me that he just can't put as much into a relationship with me as I am willing to put in for him.
ketomai: Maybe that is true, and it has been my experience-- but I hate to think that all relationships are doomed to a dependence on proximity. Maybe it's naive, I just want to have some people in my life who are always there, no matter what. It's not going to be my biological family, so I'm searching for friends of that nature instead. Also, you're right. Maybe the distance will actually improve things in the relationship, and make it easier to start over by creating some natural space instead of awkward going out of our way to avoid each other everywhere.
Highlight: We all make mistakes. Hopefully you will do better next time.  In a way, yeah he's been an ass, but at the same time, he hasn't deliberately meant to hurt me--it wasn't his intentions. So I can't really stay angry at him for making the wrong decisions, and I can't really be angry at myself for that either. It's part of life.
Kaonis: I heard a little old man voice in my head and I loled. Thanks for that.  I would say-- don't give up on your relationship. I don't think relationships end over distance-- I think relationships ending tends to correlate with a move because the distance exposes the fact that the things you had in common were circumstantial. If you trust that you two have a relationship and friendship based on things besides school, and the friends who live in your neighborhoods, etc., your relationship is worth a shot.
And my conclusion is that the best way to combat sadness and distract myself is... sc2, art, and cake. Any other suggestions? XD
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United States4796 Posts
On May 27 2011 17:22 Kaonis wrote:
Well, this sure has me saying in my mind "What the helllllllllll" in that funny little old man voice. Got a girlfriend of over a year, and I'm going to college in the fall while she starts her senior year. I had a feeling that it was gonna be bearable, but this blog chalks up another story that ends... Well, not in a relationship.
Good recounting, by the way. Remember, above all else...
Take it easy.
That last thing you said made everything.
In the end, everything will work itself out. For better or worse. That sounds super stupid but in time you will be okay. In the meantime, best of luck. Hope it does work out for you in the end.
StarCraft is good for pain.
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Australia7069 Posts
If "evan" watches day9, he probably reads teamliquid? In which case, why dont you just tell him all this stuff, instead of blogging it in a place he'll probably find and read it?
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On May 27 2011 17:47 RedJustice wrote:
And my conclusion is that the best way to combat sadness and distract myself is... sc2, art, and cake. Any other suggestions? XD
Hookers and blow, or in this case, gigolos and blow.
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sounds like he just sees u as a good friend that is there for a good time every once in awhile but isn't really that interested in serious relationship.
edit: and by good time i mean any physical things u guys did together, im sure he does like u as a friend but doesnt see u as nething more then that
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i am a male, age 24. i have had sex with a number of girls that i probably cannot recall an exact number. i have never been in a traditional relationship -- never had a girlfriend.
of these girls i've had sex with, the VAST majority of them i actually cared for, wanted to stick around for more than just a one night stand, etc (and many/most did stay around). they all knew they would not be my One True Girl or anything.
it is entirely possible for people to have sex with someone and to genuinely care for and like a person, without wanting to either 1. enter the flawed social construct of monogamy or 2. show their breach of that construct when they are currently playing inside of it with someone else. this says nothing about what they truly think of you.
i know a girl who is married. she got married when she was 18 to her first real (more than two weeks or so) boyfriend she met when she was 17. she is 25 now, and wishes she hadn't gotten married. she realized she was polyamorous but, because of her love for her husband, she does not want to cause him any harm and therefore, she hurts herself and stifles her own desires as a result. when she eventually does embrace her polyamorous ways and is even moderately sexual with others, she is happy... she just needs to ensure her husband does not find out.
the point of the above paragraph is to show you that your love and desire for one person has nothing whatsoever to do with your love and desire for another person, and it is only restricted insofar as the social construct of monogamy restricts it. and it looks like you are trapped there.
don't view it as a personal negative. view it as a societal negative, one that you now have enough experience in to realize its flaws and one you will not participate in in the future.
=)
(edit: if it was not clear, i am analogizing the above to your situation about "but we are just friends!" as a basis for refusal of sexuality, and how all of that etc caused the bullshit you face of someone feeling the need to cut off ALL connection as a result.)
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Afterwards, Evan said it really made him realize that he didn't want to see me in a relationship with someone else...
However, he always made it a point with me that I was not his girlfriend because of the previous issues he had.
who the what now? That's so fucked up. Recognizing that stuff like that is not normal/healthy/ok relationship material should help. If he hasn't apologized for mistreating you, IMO you're getting some major disrespect. While it would be nice to straighten things out, he may care more about "getting space" than making up. Let go of him and secretly forgive him for what he did that made you mad (so you can move on.) If he comes to you with a sincere apology, you could give things another shot. If he doesn't, he's not worth your time :/
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Kiante: He watches streams from TL's stream page, and that's the extent of his foraging on here, lol. And we have talked about these things many times. XD
Huk: Probably, which I wouldn't be so pissed about if he didn't tell me he loved me at various times or that we would try to make things work as an exclusive relationship. If you just want the sex and not the relationship, that's cool, but don't lead people on. :/
annul: It's not that I don't think 'just friends' can't be sexual, it's that we have a sort of emotional relationship as well, that is over the line of friendship, but it's not clear where a friendship line is. And since I love him and shit's confusing enough and he doesn't plan on pursuing a relationship with me, it's easier for me to move on if we cut out the sex.
nanoscorp: I know it's pretty shitty. He's says, sorry you got hurt, but it's your own fault for not leaving the relationship if you were getting hurt. Which, is kinda bullshit lol, like telling someone who is being abused it's their fault for not leaving-- doesn't matter you shouldn't treat someone like that anyway. But at the same time, yes, I did make a mistake in letting him treat me like that. Lesson learned for the future, I guess. XD
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From what you wrote he seems to be ambitious and eager to pursue a career, basically all those years of education have set him up to make a splash at this moment in his life. A relationship, even though it sounds harsh, would only complicate him in achieving his goals.
Especially since you'd be living apart and dealing with different stages of life, there's just not enough incentive to keep things fresh. Relationships take a lot of effort to maintain, even when there's strong feelings involved, and neither of you are in a position to put all your energy into making a relationship work.
Imo, best thing would be to end things on a good note and hope you'll meet again in a couple of years and find there's still a spark.
Best of luck anyways :/
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It seems time is the answer, albeit the one that we want least..
It's incredibly special to have a lover in a best friend or a best friend in a lover, but it's also very difficult to maintain because it can get complicated and theres a lot at stake. And at our age we're not mature or numb enough to just take it as it comes.
Just give it time. No matter what is to happen, you are- and you will be- in a better place after your heart heals.
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That was seriously complicated, and the only advice I have to give is: it's your call. Whether you want to keep the friendship or go further with it is up to him.
I'll use a Starcraft analogy. You can play safe on one base early game and bunker up, or you could expand early which is risky but leads to economic gain. Same principle here, really. It's up to him.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Start of with something light
On Valentine's Day, we watched Day9 together (like we do every Monday), and he was super sweet. On his birthday, I bought him an Observer plushie
You're a hero among the TL community. If some1 got me a plushie shaped like a baneling, I'd marry them
And my conclusion is that the best way to combat sadness and distract myself is... sc2, art, and cake. Any other suggestions? XD
Music is always good. But above all else, spending time with others is a good idea, helps you get your mind off things.
That and ice cream, and milkshake, and State Of the Game. Happy food for happy times! (I go with Maryland cookies and 4v4 DT rushing to make me smile)
But seriously, I read your blog, and I re-read it to make sure I didn't miss it. From what I felt after all that, you are quite possibly the most patient person I have ever seen/read/known about. Nestea would rage before you. If people were that understanding, this world would be a better place.
Yes he's ambitious, and with his goals, he has to be ambitious, but in that situation, he should have just ended it earlier instead of leading you on like that. Sure, you could have ended it yourself, but considering you were the one with the clearer emotions, it should really have been him.
That said, like everyone mentioned, I think time is the best way to heal. Hang with friends, play some Starcraft 2, just take some you-time. Maybe, in a few years, you are both in a position where a relationship is possible, assuming the feelings are still there. But with your personality and incredible gift-choosing powers, I genuinely think you'll be fine, and I hope so as well.
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Actually, this was quite comforting story.
In Starcraft words: if a man isn't 100% all-in, super-infatuated and decisive with you early on, then he'll sooner or later turn out to be maphacker/drophacker/BM or worse. It's simple and brutal, but that's how we, males, work.
That being said, guy was pretty honest and mature to tell you all this... unless he lied, but judging from his behaviour, I think he told you the truth. Not like you should be thankful for this, but being contained in a relationship where you are the only person in love would be godawful.
Combat sadness with some jazz, maybe Charles Mingus or Portico Quartet ezpz.
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Either evan is piss-poor at making up his mind or he's been stringing you along. Either way i don't think you should beat yourself up over it. You made the right decision imo and one that takes a lot of guts at that. TL is proud of you. I just think you need a break from him altogether. If nothing else, it might help clear your mind.
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There's a pretty general technique for dealing with situations like this, which will probably help.
First, you have to know what you want to have happen given who he is. Ignore for now what is and isn't feasible. Is your dream to have him be your boyfriend? Or do you think you would rather go with someone else? Don't consider things like you want him to be your boyfriend but these things have to change first. That is likely to just leave you in a situation where you aren't satisfied but think you want to be there.
Next, you should consider where he stands and what he wants. If he doesn't want what you want, then it's not going to happen and you'll have to deal with that. If he doesn't know what he wants, then things will always be mediocre until he figures it out, at which point either he'll break up with you or things will get better. But if you let the status quo stand then he might never decide to figure out what he wants, and then you'll be left in limbo forever, which is arguably worse than either alternative.
From your post, it sounds like he doesn't know what he wants from you. And it's not clear if you know what you want from him. You need to take a break from each other and both think about yourselves and figure out what you want. Then you can decide what to do much better.
If you both decide that you want to be lovers, then great! Now you have to figure out how to make it work, but you'll both be happy to make some sacrifices because you want to.
If you decide that you want to be lovers and he doesn't, then you have to consider whether you can deal with him being your friend still. It's completely possible that the answer to that will be no for a while, maybe even a long while.
If it's the other way around, then you should realize that he might not be ready to deal with you being there as a friend and you should need to accommodate for that.
If both of you would rather you just be friends, then you'll both be able to move on much easier, knowing that nothing was really lost.
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EPT
