|
I'm Israeli. Born and raised mostly in Israel (and the United States for an interim). I fancy myself a rather clever person. I'm liberal person, a religious agnostic, and believe human rights to be an important value - including freedom of speech as a basic human right. My political agenda is pro-peace, and that the Palestinian state is a necessity. I lived in the US for a few years, travelled the world and visited all kinds of awesome places. Places where day to day news does not involve local death and destruction. With low taxes, peace of mind, and generally speaking - a worry free existence. I made friends from fifteen countries, and still keep in touch.
I was drafted into the military, as a combat soldier, and do reserve duty for about a month a year, which totally sucks since I have a life to live. Taxes in Israel are relatively high, due to an unfortunately necessary high expense for security. Israelis are argumentative by any scale (maybe the Lebanese could give contest). The universal truth applies: the dumber people are, the louder and more obnoxious they get. Coupled with the argumentative quality, this makes for some very frustrating debates. This is extremely frustrating considering the right-wing and hawkish political agendas which are popular. Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I could move to some place else, and the idea is quite tempting.
With all that in mind, Israel is awesome.
The people may by loud, but in a pinch no one is more helpful. While rude, people here are genuine, and friends are genuine friends - something that is much rarer in most societies. People speak their mind, even if their mind isn't exactly the finest. People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
And we have hot chicks.
This is my first post in this blog, and while I decided for the most part I will keep it cheerful and funny. But I will use this blog to answer any non-political question about Israel (as the majority of political inquiries about Israel is by someone who already made up their minds).
So, ask away.
 
|
No. Israel is far from awesome. In fact, Israel is the complete opposite of awesome.
|
How would you assess the combat capabilities of Israeli special ops vis-a-vis the western elite (Seals, Delta Force, Green Beret, SAS)?
|
On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said....
On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people.
|
So Israel is awesome and the west is 'evil and are all liars'?
COOL STORY BRO
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
And we have hot chicks.
Yes. Yes you do. I see a drunken phone call to my Israeli ex in the near future. Thanks for reminding me of her you bastard >.<
|
Israeli chick from fast five is prettty damn hot I must agree
|
I am not sure if OP is trolling or not.
My policy is that Israelis whose heritage is not native to the land go back to Poland, Germany, Russia, etc., that the overwhelmingly powerful Zionist lobbies in the US and some European countries are abolished, and a state of Palestine is made out of the territory of the old British mandate of Palestine. It would do well to largely undo the absolute horrors that have been wrought and continue to be.
People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I will interpret this as a joke. I say that because I don't wish to interpret it as a flat-out insult as I am a bit optimistic.
|
i don't know why people are jumping the guy just for making a post that says that israel has pluses along with its minuses in a time when it's being scrutinized by the entire world. the guy even said that he believes in a palestinian state being a necessity and in peace.. what's wrong with being happy with your country despite its international policies. i would say that i'm happy to be in the united states despite the fact that the united states is currently causing immense suffering in numerous countries in the middle east. (including arming and backing israel for the past forty years against the palestinians)
i am just curious about the atmosphere amongst the people in israel regarding the border talk. how do people feel about it in israel? do they feel threatened? do you think there is any possibility of a peaceful settlement?
edit: i do think that you could have worded your part about israelis being genuine vs westerners being duplicitous a little better. there are genuine people in every country as well as duplicitous ones and you can find genuine friends anywhere.. it does come off a bit rude but i, like the poster above me, don't really think you meant it that way seeing as you made friends from different countries.
|
Netherlands6142 Posts
Have you been to one/some of the Israeli SC2 lans? They looked superfun.
|
Nothing against you specifically...but having had cousins who lived in palestine (7 and 9 years old respectively) that were shot dead by israeli soldiers for no good reason...I'm afraid I can't agree.
Not meaning to derail, sorry. Might help shed some light on one of the reasons people would disagree with you.
|
I see nothing great about a nation that holes up millions of people in Gaza
|
On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people.
The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate.
I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people.
On May 21 2011 17:17 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:I am not sure if OP is trolling or not. My policy is that Israelis whose heritage is not native to the land go back to Poland, Germany, Russia, etc., that the overwhelmingly powerful Zionist lobbies in the US and some European countries are abolished, and a state of Palestine is made out of the territory of the old British mandate of Palestine. It would do well to largely undo the absolute horrors that have been wrought and continue to be. Show nested quote + People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous. I will interpret this as a joke. I say that because I don't wish to interpret it as a flat-out insult as I am a bit optimistic.
Go back to Poland, Germany and Russia? Do you have any idea what people ran away from? I will interpret that as a joke, because I don't wish to point out that my grandparents on one side were Polish, and that my great-grandparents on the other were Russian, and MY HOME is Israel. In Israel there was an idea calling to transfer Palestinian population outside of Israel. Only the right-wing nutjobs don't think it's inhumane.
So while you say that Israel does absolute horrors, you personally think it would be a good idea to do something far worse. Hence, you made my point about being duplicitous, while being outraged at it.
On May 21 2011 17:36 NonSenSeWins wrote:
i don't know why people are jumping the guy just for making a post that says that israel has pluses along with its minuses in a time when it's being scrutinized by the entire world. the guy even said that he believes in a palestinian state being a necessity and in peace.. what's wrong with being happy with your country despite its international policies. i would say that i'm happy to be in the united states despite the fact that the united states is currently causing immense suffering in numerous countries in the middle east. (including arming and backing israel for the past forty years against the palestinians)
i am just curious about the atmosphere amongst the people in israel regarding the border talk. how do people feel about it in israel? do they feel threatened? do you think there is any possibility of a peaceful settlement?
edit: i do think that you could have worded your part about israelis being genuine vs westerners being duplicitous a little better. there are genuine people in every country as well as duplicitous ones and you can find genuine friends anywhere.. it does come off a bit rude but i, like the poster above me, don't really think you meant it that way seeing as you made friends from different countries.
I guess most people are concerned about borders. The fact that neighboring countries allowed people freely through the border in order to violently protest is disturbing, and considering that from the west bank to some of the cities is less than a 3 hour walk, this does a lot of harm to the possibility of peace according to the 1967 borders. Unfortunately, this strikes at the basis of any (rational) peace initiative.
I have become a skeptic when it comes to peace initiatives. The situation is extremely volatile, and while I would like peace talks to resume, the current Netanyahu regime will stall until someone else is elected. I don't think that the political climate is ready for honest negotiations, as it was in the mid-nineties (an initiative which failed because Clinton tried to twist Palestinian and Israeli arms too hard, and forced a rushed pace).
I will give an example from my experience. A guy from Canada was caught with some weed in a country where you could bribe the cops. He didn't have enough money - so he went to the backpacker's hostel where he was staying at the time. All the guys in the Hostel were nice to him, smiled and made small talk in the past week. His travelling mates gave excuses, and in a hostel with about 80% of the people being from Europe or the US, the only people who helped him stay out of jail were all the Israelis (who pitched in for a guy they didn't know) and one guy from Brazil.
What I did was make a generalization - while it means nothing for specific people, I've met enough thousands of people from the US, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Australia, New-Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, and others to give me enough information for a (I admit, phrased in a somewhat inflammatory way) generalization - and while out of those, I know very few well, it is a lot of information when summed. While this doesn't say much about any specific person, enough experiences like this have convinced me that in general, there is a big difference between being generally amiable and actually meaning this in most people. Much less so with Israelis.
On May 21 2011 18:06 GoDLy MD wrote:
Nothing against you specifically...but having had cousins who lived in palestine (7 and 9 years old respectively) that were shot dead by israeli soldiers for no good reason...I'm afraid I can't agree.
Not meaning to derail, sorry. Might help shed some light on one of the reasons people would disagree with you.
I am sorry for your loss, and understand nothing I can say will make you like Israel. That is why I'm trying to keep this thread more about general questions about Israel and less about the general political situation, and talk only about my opinions. I love my country despite all it's (admittedly many) faults, and think it is awesome. I know the reasons people disagree with that, and I personally agree with most.
I hope you understand that everyone in the region has lost someone due to the conflict, myself included. I try to channel that emotion into trying to make sure peace can be made so this will not happen to other people. Because more hate will only make things worse.
|
Congratulations on patting yourself on the shoulder. All I can say is that Israel has a terrible reputation throughout all the countries I have been too. I guess oppressing another nation after all the terrible things that happened to the jews in WW2 makes a lot of people think it was deserved after all.
|
On May 21 2011 16:55 Caladbolg wrote:
How would you assess the combat capabilities of Israeli special ops vis-a-vis the western elite (Seals, Delta Force, Green Beret, SAS)?
I have never seen Seals, Delta, or SAS doing any combat. In combat situations, our naval commandos probably have as much, if not more, field experience than anyone. As well as some of the most physically grueling training.
|
hows it feel to completely destroy innocent children's lives and futures by blockading necessarily supplies and humanitarian aid to ravaged neighborhoods? (google "gaza children blockade" for any number of articles on the subject)
hows it feel to wage war and live in territory with the argument that "MY book says i own this land, so fuck you?" (yes i know about the UN resolutions, i am going beyond that)
israel is very, VERY far from the utopia the OP tries to portray it as. by its very existence, it's a cesspool of zealots who turn a blind eye to the trouble they cause.
note i think palestine is the same way. "herp my book says i own the land" "NO MY BOOK says =I= own the land!"
why not be adults and stop killing each other based on what book you like to read, and share it?
|
On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people.
What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel.
Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts.
Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future.
|
On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future.
There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general.
My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does.
Does that make me a racist?
I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist?
|
On May 21 2011 19:00 annul wrote:
hows it feel to completely destroy innocent children's lives and futures by blockading necessarily supplies and humanitarian aid to ravaged neighborhoods? (google "gaza children blockade" for any number of articles on the subject)
hows it feel to wage war and live in territory with the argument that "MY book says i own this land, so fuck you?" (yes i know about the UN resolutions, i am going beyond that)
israel is very, VERY far from the utopia the OP tries to portray it as. by its very existence, it's a cesspool of zealots who turn a blind eye to the trouble they cause.
note i think palestine is the same way. "herp my book says i own the land" "NO MY BOOK says =I= own the land!"
why not be adults and stop killing each other based on what book you like to read, and share it?
I never did any of the things you asked about. I wouldn't know. I never tried to portray it as a utopia. I just said that with all it's many faults as a home (the main ones were the ones I listed), it is still a good place to be.
I started my post with the fact that I am strongly pro-peace and would love nothing more than a peaceful resolution of the conflict, am a religious agnostic (meaning: I won't believe in God until I get proper evidence, but I try not being a dick about it  ). Despite the media's portrayal, the majority of Israelis are pro-peace (to varying degrees). Politics is a dirty business, and just like Bush did in the US, the "the world is a dangerous place" card is a strong one, even towards rational people.
|
On May 21 2011 19:17 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future. There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general. My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does. Does that make me a racist? I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist?
Yes everybody is tempted to form opinions on groups of people, but when you feel like this you can ask yourself if you are forming views which you are comfortable holding, and re-adjust your views. So, a black man might rob you, and at that moment you instinctively think black guys are all robbers. But later you can reflect that this isn't logical, so you don't think this any more.
After a while it becomes a habit and you won't draw conclusions like that in the first place. This has been my own line of reasoning anyway.
|
What is the make up and interaction of different groups of Israelis?
I mean we know that you are all Jewish or at least Jewish being the overwhelming majority but a great number of your population come from immigrants from different parts of Europe, do you have discriminations based on say a Russian Jewish person or polish Jewish person etc...
Another question is, can you introduce some of your primary industries? You get financial support from US but you must do some thing right considering your trade with Arab world is pretty much non-existent.
How receptive are Israelis on non Jewish people settling there? Except Arabs for obvious reasons.
|
On May 21 2011 19:35 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:17 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future. There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general. My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does. Does that make me a racist? I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist? Yes everybody is tempted to form opinions on groups of people, but when you feel like this you can ask yourself if you are forming views which you are comfortable holding, and re-adjust your views. So, a black man might rob you, and at that moment you instinctively think black guys are all robbers. But later you can reflect that this isn't logical, so you don't think this any more. After a while it becomes a habit and you won't draw conclusions like that in the first place. This has been my own line of reasoning anyway.
Agreed. I phrased myself in a somewhat inflammatory way, but this has been my experience, and basically, I gave the reasons why I think Israel is awesome. Others are bound to disagree. But just for once, I think it would be nice if people would actually want to know how things look from the view of an Israeli... and believe that I am in a better position than most to explain this because I have spent a lot of time with people from around the world and can get around the barriers of communication imposed by different cultures and way of thought.
My generalizations about Israelis are not gentle either, but people should know what my way of thought is if they want me to explain something - and this is why I phrased myself so bluntly.
|
On May 21 2011 19:35 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:17 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future. There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general. My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does. Does that make me a racist? I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist? Yes everybody is tempted to form opinions on groups of people, but when you feel like this you can ask yourself if you are forming views which you are comfortable holding, and re-adjust your views. So, a black man might rob you, and at that moment you instinctively think black guys are all robbers. But later you can reflect that this isn't logical, so you don't think this any more. After a while it becomes a habit and you won't draw conclusions like that in the first place. This has been my own line of reasoning anyway.
I think it's more complicated than that.
Maybe your conclusion is that maybe all Black people arent robbers...but perhaps that a Black person is more likely to be one than others. This is actually a rather commomn thought process to make, much the same way that it's accepted that men get charged more for insurance because they are more likely to be in an accident regardless of how unfair and prejudicial it is.
|
Hey when I was about 8 years old I used to wake up early every saturday morning to watch cartoons and there was this show in between hosted by a very young Yael Bar Zohar. I had a pretty big crush on her and I always thought she'd become a really big star when she grows up (this was 18 years ago). So whatever happened to her? Is she a big celebrity in Israel?
|
On May 21 2011 19:49 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:35 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 19:17 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future. There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general. My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does. Does that make me a racist? I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist? Yes everybody is tempted to form opinions on groups of people, but when you feel like this you can ask yourself if you are forming views which you are comfortable holding, and re-adjust your views. So, a black man might rob you, and at that moment you instinctively think black guys are all robbers. But later you can reflect that this isn't logical, so you don't think this any more. After a while it becomes a habit and you won't draw conclusions like that in the first place. This has been my own line of reasoning anyway. I think it's more complicated than that. Maybe your conclusion is that maybe all Black people arent robbers...but perhaps that a Black person is more likely to be one than others. This is actually a rather commomn thought process to make, much the same way that it's accepted that men get charged more for insurance because they are more likely to be in an accident regardless of how unfair and prejudicial it is.
Indeed. If I had my way I would make this illegal. I'm not sure it would even be allowed if women were considered a higher risk, but due to the history of repression of women's rights it is considered politically acceptable.
|
On May 21 2011 19:39 haduken wrote:
What is the make up and interaction of different groups of Israelis?
I mean we know that you are all Jewish or at least Jewish being the overwhelming majority but a great number of your population come from immigrants from different parts of Europe, do you have discriminations based on say a Russian Jewish person or polish Jewish person etc...
Another question is, can you introduce some of your primary industries? You get financial support from US but you must do some thing right considering your trade with Arab world is pretty much non-existent.
How receptive are Israelis on non Jewish people settling there? Except Arabs for obvious reasons.
That's a great question. The answer is that historically, Israel has been a country of immigrants from many places, at it's best it is the proverbial melting pot. While there was at the start a lot of tension (and the Polish Mom stereotype here is the equivalent of the Jewish Mother stereotype elsewhere), generally there is no discrimination. There is some trepidation in certain cases, but generally, there are enough immigrants from all over the world (especially Russians) that have come here often over the past thirty years, that discrimination is very minimal (there are racists everywhere, and they generally dislike anyone who isn't exactly like them) as everyone here has grown up with immigrants and sees them as just another guy.
As for the industries, Israel has a (rather famous) military industry, considered to be one of the most advanced in the world, is second in the amount of high-tech startups only to the US (numerically, percentage wise, Israel is #1 by far), the most famous Israeli invention probably being the firewall/internet security. Some big pharmaceutical companies here as well. Also, Israel is one of the leading exporters of agricultural technology, as the climate here is rather dry and innovation was forced. Generally, technology-based companies are what make the money here. It sure isn't tourism
As to non-Jewish people... it depends where. Generally speaking, the more urban the area, the less a bunch of rednecks they are is a truism. I dated a Catholic girl from Ireland here. She seemed to have no problem.
|
On May 21 2011 19:54 BG1 wrote:
Hey when I was about 8 years old I used to wake up early every saturday morning to watch cartoons and there was this show in between hosted by a very young Yael Bar Zohar. I had a pretty big crush on her and I always thought she'd become a really big star when she grows up (this was 18 years ago). So whatever happened to her? Is she a big celebrity in Israel?
She used to be HUGE celebrity (even bigger than her ample knocke... erm, intellectual capability), but her "acting" relegated her to being stuck in soaps and vanishing from sight. People still remember her, but she hasn't been a first string celebrity in nearly a decade.
|
Netherlands45349 Posts
How are Arab Jews treated in Israel?
|
The israeli believe that Abraham gave them the promest land like 2000 years ago.
I am the only one that finds this a bit strange?
Do the israeli not study things like biology, astrophisics, geology, ???
Just watch the documentary "the ultra zionist" very interesting to see the israeli point of view xD
Open your eyes, israel is far from awesome, at least the people and their old believe system are not awesome.
From my point of view every one who things they are chosen by god, and the rest isnt, or the land was given to them by god, is extremely racist.
If israelis want to be accepted, they should start to accept other people as well not only themselves.
|
On May 21 2011 20:11 Kipsate wrote:
How are Arab Jews treated in Israel? Wait, I'm not the only one? lol
|
On that topic what about Ethiopian Jewish people? or Asian Jews? (Is there such a thing?)
|
On May 21 2011 20:11 Kipsate wrote:
How are Arab Jews treated in Israel?
Arab Jews... well, approximately 40% of the Jewish population is or descended from immigrants from Arab countries. How are they treated? Well, like anyone else.
On May 21 2011 20:39 haduken wrote:
On that topic what about Ethiopian Jewish people? or Asian Jews? (Is there such a thing?)
The Ethiopian Jews have a growing community, and they tend to keep to themselves though that is becoming less and less the case. There is some racism, like every other white country with black people. Not everyone can look beyond that because... well, for whatever reason stupid people exist.
On May 21 2011 20:22 SpaceDreamer wrote:
The israeli believe that Abraham gave them the promest land like 2000 years ago.
I am the only one that finds this a bit strange?
Do the israeli not study things like biology, astrophisics, geology, ???
Just watch the documentary "the ultra zionist" very interesting to see the israeli point of view xD
Open your eyes, israel is far from awesome, at least the people and their old believe system are not awesome.
From my point of view every one who things they are chosen by god, and the rest isnt, or the land was given to them by god, is extremely racist.
If israelis want to be accepted, they should start to accept other people as well not only themselves.
Oh please don't bring that up. Those guys are the Phelps family of Israel (another one of Theroux's documentaries "America Most Hated Family: In Crisis" gives you a view of those guys if you don't know who they are). Please, please, please don't think that Israelis are like that. The country defends those people (the first job of the state is the safety of it's citizens), but people HATE those guys here. I can personally attest that as a combat soldier, I spent a few months protecting those guys. Some of them used to throw rocks at my car WHILE I WAS DOING ROUNDS TO DEFEND THEM. They are a bunch of religious crazies.
|
good to see more Israelis in TL, most of what you said was right, but Israel is far from awesome.
sure there are nice people here, but 9 out of 10 are complete asses and uber right winged/ racist.
|
On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
I'm Israeli. Born and raised mostly in Israel (and the United States for an interim). I fancy myself a rather clever person. I'm liberal person, a religious agnostic, and believe human rights to be an important value - including freedom of speech as a basic human right. My political agenda is pro-peace, and that the Palestinian state is a necessity. I lived in the US for a few years, travelled the world and visited all kinds of awesome places. Places where day to day news does not involve local death and destruction. With low taxes, peace of mind, and generally speaking - a worry free existence. I made friends from fifteen countries, and still keep in touch.
I was drafted into the military, as a combat soldier, and do reserve duty for about a month a year, which totally sucks since I have a life to live. Taxes in Israel are relatively high, due to an unfortunately necessary high expense for security. Israelis are argumentative by any scale (maybe the Lebanese could give contest). The universal truth applies: the dumber people are, the louder and more obnoxious they get. Coupled with the argumentative quality, this makes for some very frustrating debates. This is extremely frustrating considering the right-wing and hawkish political agendas which are popular. Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I could move to some place else, and the idea is quite tempting.
With all that in mind, Israel is awesome.
The people may by loud, but in a pinch no one is more helpful. While rude, people here are genuine, and friends are genuine friends - something that is much rarer in most societies. People speak their mind, even if their mind isn't exactly the finest. People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
And we have hot chicks.
This is my first post in this blog, and while I decided for the most part I will keep it cheerful and funny. But I will use this blog to answer any non-political question about Israel (as the majority of political inquiries about Israel is by someone who already made up their minds).
So, ask away. This is just blatant generalisation and stereotyping of other people. People are individuals, not some shaped mold copies of each other
|
On May 21 2011 22:23 xarthaz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
I'm Israeli. Born and raised mostly in Israel (and the United States for an interim). I fancy myself a rather clever person. I'm liberal person, a religious agnostic, and believe human rights to be an important value - including freedom of speech as a basic human right. My political agenda is pro-peace, and that the Palestinian state is a necessity. I lived in the US for a few years, travelled the world and visited all kinds of awesome places. Places where day to day news does not involve local death and destruction. With low taxes, peace of mind, and generally speaking - a worry free existence. I made friends from fifteen countries, and still keep in touch.
I was drafted into the military, as a combat soldier, and do reserve duty for about a month a year, which totally sucks since I have a life to live. Taxes in Israel are relatively high, due to an unfortunately necessary high expense for security. Israelis are argumentative by any scale (maybe the Lebanese could give contest). The universal truth applies: the dumber people are, the louder and more obnoxious they get. Coupled with the argumentative quality, this makes for some very frustrating debates. This is extremely frustrating considering the right-wing and hawkish political agendas which are popular. Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I could move to some place else, and the idea is quite tempting.
With all that in mind, Israel is awesome.
The people may by loud, but in a pinch no one is more helpful. While rude, people here are genuine, and friends are genuine friends - something that is much rarer in most societies. People speak their mind, even if their mind isn't exactly the finest. People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
And we have hot chicks.
This is my first post in this blog, and while I decided for the most part I will keep it cheerful and funny. But I will use this blog to answer any non-political question about Israel (as the majority of political inquiries about Israel is by someone who already made up their minds).
So, ask away. This is just blatant generalisation and stereotyping of other people. People are individuals, not some shaped mold copies of each other
It is. I mentioned that. But I'm saying that Israelis are uncommonly direct, and their actions follow their words, to a fault at times. I find that characteristic totally awesome. Others would say that's just rephrasing of "cultural asperger symptoms". It's a matter of perspective. I didn't sugar coat it, it is a reason I love my home.
|
I dont generalize, only stupid and limited peple do that, there is nice people all over the world.
As a matter of fact, being nice is natural behavior of humans, its the bad experiences, bad education, or bad belive sistems that corrupt the pure soul of humans.
Of course humans do bad things in extreme situations like being hungry and having to survive, but those are instincts, not normal calculated behaviour.
What i say is, all religions that existed in the past, today and in the future are just crap, and ilusions. Mainly for control of the people, or becouse they where so ignorant they didnt knew better.
The thing with religion is everyone thinks theyr god is the best, of course its gona couse tension if two people of diferent religions start arguing who is the better god lol
And yea Israel is mainly a religious state:
"The religious status quo, agreed upon by David Ben-Gurion with the religious parties at the time of the declaration of independence in 1948 is an agreement on the religious Jewish role in government and the judicial system of Israel. The agreement was based upon a letter that was sent by Ben-Gurion to Agudat Israel dated 19 June 1947.[18] Under this agreement, which still operates in most respects today"
I respect people have their religions and practice them, i wish i was beliving in heaven xD
Once religion starts interacting in the state and law affairs (like the cristian religion in the middleages) then its not awesome for me.
You seem a nice guy, im sure you religious, cos every israeli is, you seem to be the more tolerant type, but your goverment is not that tolerant im sure.
I love all people, no matter what religion or part of the world, we are an amazing evolved creature, and we depend on all other creatures of this planet.
This is paradise, we just forgoten, the day will come and we remember again.
even if we find other planets, we will never find one like ours, simply becouse this planet made us all.
Just for the lolz: 40 % in america belive we come from adam and eve, and the earth is 6000 years old xD
Religion is overrated and old fashion
|
On May 21 2011 22:55 SpaceDreamer wrote:
I dont generalize, only stupid and limited peple do that, there is nice people all over the world.
As a matter of fact, being nice is natural behavior of humans, its the bad experiences, bad education, or bad belive sistems that corrupt the pure soul of humans.
OK, so explain the generalizations here:
Of course humans do bad things in extreme situations like being hungry and having to survive, but those are instincts, not normal calculated behaviour.
I believe humans are egotistic by nature. It's not good or evil, it's just human nature. It makes people do terrible stuff, like outsourcing the production of stuff to countries where labor is basically slave-labor.
What i say is, all religions that existed in the past, today and in the future are just crap, and ilusions. Mainly for control of the people, or becouse they where so ignorant they didnt knew better.
The thing with religion is everyone thinks theyr god is the best, of course its gona couse tension if two people of diferent religions start arguing who is the better god lol
Who is generalizing now?
And yea Israel is mainly a religious state:
"The religious status quo, agreed upon by David Ben-Gurion with the religious parties at the time of the declaration of independence in 1948 is an agreement on the religious Jewish role in government and the judicial system of Israel. The agreement was based upon a letter that was sent by Ben-Gurion to Agudat Israel dated 19 June 1947.[18] Under this agreement, which still operates in most respects today"
I respect people have their religions and practice them, i wish i was beliving in heaven xD
Once religion starts interacting in the state and law affairs (like the cristian religion in the middleages) then its not awesome for me.
It's Sabbath, there is heavy traffic in the street under my appartment. Non-kosher food is sold at the supermarket next to my house at this very moment. Actually, the religious status-quo is mainly matters of Jewish marriage and conversion to religion.
You seem a nice guy, im sure you religious, cos every israeli is, you seem to be the more tolerant type, but your goverment is not that tolerant im sure.
I love all people, no matter what religion or part of the world, we are an amazing evolved creature, and we depend on all other creatures of this planet.
This is paradise, we just forgoten, the day will come and we remember again.
even if we find other planets, we will never find one like ours, simply becouse this planet made us all.
Just for the lolz: 40 % in america belive we come from adam and eve, and the earth is 6000 years old xD
Religion is overrated and old fashion
As I have stated before, I do not believe in an all-powerful being. I do not believe in God. The vast majority of Israel is secular, and only goes to pray once or twice a year in holidays when it is considered a thing of tradition, not religion really. I'm sorry you think Israel is all that religious, because it really isn't. The religious people are just a loud group. Same as in the US.
|
Unlike most posters out here, i agree with the OP. Israel is awesome... in fact, Israel is awesome for everyone. Well, at least, Israel is awesome for most people... Oh no....wait....Israel is not awesome for Palestinians.
|
On May 21 2011 17:51 Pholon wrote:
Have you been to one/some of the Israeli SC2 lans? They looked superfun.
Haven't been to any SC2 lans... Heard they are really awesome, but their timing is just terrible for me in most cases.
|
just would like to say that the OP is handling most questions fairly well despite the aggression he is receiving in a lot of posts.
|
On May 22 2011 00:51 Liquid`HuK wrote:
just would like to say that the OP is handling most questions fairly well despite the aggression he is receiving in a lot of posts.
Yeah I totally thought this was going to be a LOT worse than it was. Fairly decent so far.
|
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing
|
On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing
word
|
On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing
I can make counter arguments, but it would be futile, and I would really like this thread to be more about "how are the bars in Tel-Aviv compared to those of LA?" and "how hard is it to pick up chicks there?" and less political argument. I will say this: I have no qualms with Lebanon, and one of the 15 friends I mentioned in my post is from Beirut (who has cousins that sell weed in order to buy weapons so they can attack Israel). We had this conversation, and found out that Lebanese and Israeli people are very much alike. Which is probably why the countries don't get along.
|
On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing
well said sir!
|
On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:[ Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 17:17 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:I am not sure if OP is trolling or not. My policy is that Israelis whose heritage is not native to the land go back to Poland, Germany, Russia, etc., that the overwhelmingly powerful Zionist lobbies in the US and some European countries are abolished, and a state of Palestine is made out of the territory of the old British mandate of Palestine. It would do well to largely undo the absolute horrors that have been wrought and continue to be. People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous. I will interpret this as a joke. I say that because I don't wish to interpret it as a flat-out insult as I am a bit optimistic. Go back to Poland, Germany and Russia? Do you have any idea what people ran away from? I will interpret that as a joke, because I don't wish to point out that my grandparents on one side were Polish, and that my great-grandparents on the other were Russian, and MY HOME is Israel. In Israel there was an idea calling to transfer Palestinian population outside of Israel. Only the right-wing nutjobs don't think it's inhumane. So while you say that Israel does absolute horrors, you personally think it would be a good idea to do something far worse. Hence, you made my point about being duplicitous, while being outraged at it.
The Nazis aren't around anymore. So that point is not valid.
Sending people back to their homeland is not worse than apartheid, persecution, massacre, and heavy influence in US foreign policy in the Mideast that has been a good factor in destabilization of nearby countries and wars, especially in the case of the Lebanese. I am glad at least that Hezbollah could defend their nation from the scourge several years ago. A true victory against zionism.
Israel is not a good place, the religious beliefs that have been intertwined in Israeli hypernationalism are more twisted than many other ancient Semitic religions that the Old Testament / Tanakh takes no break at saying how "evil" they are compared to the extremely hateful death lord Yahweh, and it's by no means a good place to go. Hopefully I never need go there in my life. IDK, you may as well say North Korea is a good country. At least I hear that the people there (not crazy govt.) are decent. Of course, it is obviously difficult to get into there and I have no desire at all to do so anyways.
More planned deportations and massacres you say, eh? This is surely something not heard in American news.
But with what you say, this state founded by terrorism and the zionist lobbies in US and Britain never ceases to amaze me. Unfortunately, I hear the right-wing in Israel is overwhelming large, and most of the people who aren't in it aren't even Jewish and among the Jews, natives of the Mideast who have not been completely indoctrinated into Zionist ideology. That's a bit of a problem.
|
I think people treat the fact that Israel is currently engaged in something approximating apartheid somehow makes them as people "worse." A country's wrongful actions do not condemn the people to being worse.
There were plenty of pleasant white people in South Africa. They weren't all evil, misery-inducing people, but many were comfortable allowing a way of life conducive to their personal happiness continuing at the expense of others. It's not evil, it's apathy. It doesn't mean I like it, but the rage at Israelis rather than Israel is a bit irresponsible.
|
On May 22 2011 04:07 Sleight wrote:
I think people treat the fact that Israel is currently engaged in something approximating apartheid somehow makes them as people "worse." A country's wrongful actions do not condemn the people to being worse.
There were plenty of pleasant white people in South Africa. They weren't all evil, misery-inducing people, but many were comfortable allowing a way of life conducive to their personal happiness continuing at the expense of others. It's not evil, it's apathy. It doesn't mean I like it, but the rage at Israelis rather than Israel is a bit irresponsible.
Did anyone say the Israelis are worse? They are very careful in treading the line between condemning the state and the pople.
|
There have been comments about ancestry, in addition to a lot of generalizations extending beyond the current government, meaning, YES, people are consistently saying inflammatory statements that go beyond the scope of the current government.
This blog is about the day to day of Israeli life from an Israeli. It's not about politics, its about his experiences. He can say whatever he wants and it's true if that is actually what he experienced. So when he says Israelis are more direct, blah blah blah, it's valid if that's what he has found.
|
the irony of people calling out the OP about making generalizations and then shamelessly doing the same thing to israeli people in the very same posts is amusing and depressing. israel has obviously caused deep suffering in other countries, however i wouldn't like it if i made a post saying that my country has some pros along with its cons, even venturing to say "the united states is awesome" and then get people coming into the thread saying that i must believe in the rapture because of some documentary they saw on it and that i condone the killing of infants and children in libya. no, there are people who disagree with their governments' terrible decisions in israel the same as in our country, so maybe people should actually read what the OP says before they get up in arms about how intolerant and evil he is because he lives in a state that is a complete douchebag to its neighboring states.
on the note of the thread again: is it easy to find weed in israel? i guess i never really thought about things like that haha. how would you compare the weed in israel to the weed in united states or canada? (if you tried it)
|
It saddens me a lot that in a thread where I try to talk about the Israeli life, my own first blog post, which I hoped would be full of people with actual questions, it has become yet another thread of "let's bash Israel". I'm sorry that some people don't want this blog post to be a friendly place.
Ghandi said "be the change you want to see in the world". I try to talk with people. Not about politics, not about how Israel as a nation is right or wrong. About life. I lost my belief in politicians, and believe that deep down, people would rather have an honest, man-to-man dialogue, than through the mouths of small people in big offices acting as intermediaries. If more people would believe in this, the world would be a better place.
With that being said, I will not silence the anti-Israeli crowd. I have heard your voice, many times in the past, and now once more. Prove to me that you can rise above your discontent with a country and try to view life through someone else's eyes. I am here to help in this, if you would like. I will not participate in a debate where people do not listen.
On May 22 2011 04:37 NonSenSeWins wrote:
the irony of people calling out the OP about making generalizations and then shamelessly doing the same thing to israeli people in the very same posts is amusing and depressing. israel has obviously caused deep suffering in other countries, however i wouldn't like it if i made a post saying that my country has some pros along with its cons, even venturing to say "the united states is awesome" and then get people coming into the thread saying that i must believe in the rapture because of some documentary they saw on it and that i condone the killing of infants and children in libya. no, there are people who disagree with their governments' terrible decisions in israel the same as in our country, so maybe people should actually read what the OP says before they get up in arms about how intolerant and evil he is because he lives in a state that is a complete douchebag to its neighboring states.
on the note of the thread again: is it easy to find weed in israel? i guess i never really thought about things like that haha. how would you compare the weed in israel to the weed in united states or canada? (if you tried it)
Depends... weed on par with the US/Canada in quality is more expensive and rarer here. Cheap weed is not that easy. But we have a load of hash around here. It is extremely popular, because people in Israel just need to relax. Every Israeli (well, not everyone, just around 98% or so) has tried it at some point. More people have a smoking habit than a drinking habit. I occasionally smoke some, and used to smoke a lot when travelling the world. BC (Canada) and New-Zealand generally have the best average quality. In Israel top-notch weed can go above $400 an ounce. More in case you don't know who to buy from. Best bet would be Lebanese hash. While our governments argue, and a lot of people distrust anything on both sides, business has never been better with our neighbors to the north.
|
On May 21 2011 16:53 SweetAs wrote:
No. Israel is far from awesome. In fact, Israel is the complete opposite of awesome.
agreed.
|
Jesus, so much hate. I don't actually have any questions for you, Kazius, but I am glad you made this thread and applaud you for handling all of the aggression so well.
I found this thread very informative and quite interesting. I'm a bit sad that more people don't take a genuine interest in what you have to say rather than blindily attacking you.
|
On May 22 2011 05:26 Crazyeyes wrote:
Jesus, so much hate. I don't actually have any questions for you, Kazius, but I am glad you made this thread and applaud you for handling all of the aggression so well.
I found this thread very informative and quite interesting. I'm a bit sad that more people don't take a genuine interest in what you have to say rather than blindily attacking you.
I really want to see where people have been blindly attacking him and hating. The thread is called "Israel is awesome", and it's plainly obvious that Israel as a state has been a massive international pain in the backside (though I think any thread titled "X-country is great" would arise criticism). Also, other people have picked up on individual points he made in his original post which were pretty contentious.
Honestly, some people will head for the high ground at any opportunity.
|
On May 22 2011 04:37 NonSenSeWins wrote:
the irony of people calling out the OP about making generalizations and then shamelessly doing the same thing to israeli people in the very same posts is amusing and depressing.
Quotes please
|
admittedly, they are both from the same person so i shouldn't act like there are a bunch of people entering the thread and hypocritically judging israeli people.
On May 21 2011 20:22 SpaceDreamer wrote:
The israeli believe that Abraham gave them the promest land like 2000 years ago.
I am the only one that finds this a bit strange?
Do the israeli not study things like biology, astrophisics, geology, ???
Just watch the documentary "the ultra zionist" very interesting to see the israeli point of view xD
Open your eyes, israel is far from awesome, at least the people and their old believe system are not awesome.
From my point of view every one who things they are chosen by god, and the rest isnt, or the land was given to them by god, is extremely racist.
If israelis want to be accepted, they should start to accept other people as well not only themselves.
On May 21 2011 20:22 SpaceDreamer wrote:
The israeli believe that Abraham gave them the promest land like 2000 years ago.
I am the only one that finds this a bit strange?
Do the israeli not study things like biology, astrophisics, geology, ???
Just watch the documentary "the ultra zionist" very interesting to see the israeli point of view xD
Open your eyes, israel is far from awesome, at least the people and their old believe system are not awesome.
From my point of view every one who things they are chosen by god, and the rest isnt, or the land was given to them by god, is extremely racist.
If israelis want to be accepted, they should start to accept other people as well not only themselves.
as far as blindly attacking him goes... he says he is a religious agnostic and pro-peace, and then gets this response..
On May 21 2011 19:00 annul wrote:
hows it feel to completely destroy innocent children's lives and futures by blockading necessarily supplies and humanitarian aid to ravaged neighborhoods? (google "gaza children blockade" for any number of articles on the subject)
hows it feel to wage war and live in territory with the argument that "MY book says i own this land, so fuck you?" (yes i know about the UN resolutions, i am going beyond that)
israel is very, VERY far from the utopia the OP tries to portray it as. by its very existence, it's a cesspool of zealots who turn a blind eye to the trouble they cause.
note i think palestine is the same way. "herp my book says i own the land" "NO MY BOOK says =I= own the land!"
why not be adults and stop killing each other based on what book you like to read, and share it?
as for running for the moral high ground... i genuinely think i'm just being reasonable. he is talking about israel as a place where he lives as an israeli, not at all about its political interactions. i agree that israel is terrible toward its neighboring countries but that isn't what this blog was about.
|
On May 22 2011 06:02 NonSenSeWins wrote:admittedly, they are both from the same person so i shouldn't act like there are a bunch of people entering the thread and hypocritically judging israeli people. Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 20:22 SpaceDreamer wrote:
The israeli believe that Abraham gave them the promest land like 2000 years ago.
I am the only one that finds this a bit strange?
Do the israeli not study things like biology, astrophisics, geology, ???
Just watch the documentary "the ultra zionist" very interesting to see the israeli point of view xD
Open your eyes, israel is far from awesome, at least the people and their old believe system are not awesome.
From my point of view every one who things they are chosen by god, and the rest isnt, or the land was given to them by god, is extremely racist.
If israelis want to be accepted, they should start to accept other people as well not only themselves.
Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 20:22 SpaceDreamer wrote:
The israeli believe that Abraham gave them the promest land like 2000 years ago.
I am the only one that finds this a bit strange?
Do the israeli not study things like biology, astrophisics, geology, ???
Just watch the documentary "the ultra zionist" very interesting to see the israeli point of view xD
Open your eyes, israel is far from awesome, at least the people and their old believe system are not awesome.
From my point of view every one who things they are chosen by god, and the rest isnt, or the land was given to them by god, is extremely racist.
If israelis want to be accepted, they should start to accept other people as well not only themselves.
You quoted the same thing twice, but anyway, my view was that any thread that is entitled "Israel is awesome" is baiting a response about the international condemnation of Israel's activities on the west bank. I also find the argument that any people that think they were chosen by god are inherently racist quite a logical one.
On May 22 2011 06:02 NonSenSeWins wrote:as far as blindly attacking him goes... he says he is a religious agnostic and pro-peace, and then gets this response.. Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:00 annul wrote:
hows it feel to completely destroy innocent children's lives and futures by blockading necessarily supplies and humanitarian aid to ravaged neighborhoods? (google "gaza children blockade" for any number of articles on the subject)
hows it feel to wage war and live in territory with the argument that "MY book says i own this land, so fuck you?" (yes i know about the UN resolutions, i am going beyond that)
israel is very, VERY far from the utopia the OP tries to portray it as. by its very existence, it's a cesspool of zealots who turn a blind eye to the trouble they cause.
note i think palestine is the same way. "herp my book says i own the land" "NO MY BOOK says =I= own the land!"
why not be adults and stop killing each other based on what book you like to read, and share it? as for running for the moral high ground... i genuinely think i'm just being reasonable. he is talking about israel as a place where he lives as an israeli, not at all about its political interactions. i agree that israel is terrible toward its neighboring countries but that isn't what this blog was about.
I think this guy also just posted in response to "Israel is awesome", but I agree it wasn't appropriate to slam this on him since he explicitly said that he is against what is happening there at the moment.
I'm sure that if he wants to write about life in Israel without trying to compare it's greatness with other countries, or giving it such an inflammatory title, then people will be respectful.
Overall though I think you'll agree that these 2 posts hardly represent a huge volume of hate and aggression.
|
yeah i meant to quote both of spacedreamer's posts but i must agree that overall, the responses haven't really been all that negative.
|
do you think the general publics hate of Israel is mostly because it seems like the cool thing to do politically to get ahead is bash your country, or the fact that people generally don't understand the history behind your country and think you've started every war for the last 200 years in that region?
I'm being serious how do you personally see it over there?
I had the privilege of learning how to handle a rifle from two former Yamam members about a year ago and always had very interesting discussions with them during the breaks in training, how long is basic in Israel? or the equivalent of basic training.
|
I think that many wonder how you can describe how you love your country so much, state you are pro-peace, yet turn a blind eye to the murder and slaughter that happens on an almost daily basis. You almost confirm those actions with your silence.
I understand the point of your blog, to try to get us to see past the violence. But what can you expect of us when literally all we ever hear about Israel is the conflict? What does that say about your country in and of itself?
Perhaps Israel has dug itself a hole so deep that you can never expect discussion other than that of the conflict?
Indeed, because of such, I would not dare to pretend to make such a statement.
Hopefully you consider the above in wondering why people can be so seemingly hostile towards Israelis, Palestinians, and the conflict as a whole.
|
On May 22 2011 11:52 OmniEulogy wrote:
do you think the general publics hate of Israel is mostly because it seems like the cool thing to do politically to get ahead is bash your country, or the fact that people generally don't understand the history behind your country and think you've started every war for the last 200 years in that region?
I'm being serious how do you personally see it over there?
I had the privilege of learning how to handle a rifle from two former Yamam members about a year ago and always had very interesting discussions with them during the breaks in training, how long is basic in Israel? or the equivalent of basic training.
I don't think it's the fact that hating Israel is cool per se. I've known a lot of people that know nothing about the conflict except what they show on BBC News or CNN once in a while, and maybe a bit more, and decided that Israel is just wrong. It's an easy way to feel morally superior. The history of the whole thing is irrelevant. There would be no conflict without the Jewish settlement. So it doesn't matter who is right. Just as there would be no Apartheid if there were no white people there. It's a matter of perspective. On a personal level, disillusionment would be a pretty strong word to describe my view. Most people will not listen: they have their opinion and will stick by it religiously - meaning that no fact I will give can influence them. Ironically, those are the ones that bring up religion the most. That used to depress me. And to some extent, it still does. But it's just a fact.
Basic training depends. For desk-jobs and most women, it's a month. For most combat soldiers it's two, for infantry and others it's four months. Of course, for some units, there is "unit-based basic", which makes basic look like a cakewalk, which lasts another 1-3 months. So in general, basic lasts from 1-7 months, 2-4 being the most common for combat soldiers.
|
On May 22 2011 17:07 a176 wrote:
I think that many wonder how you can describe how you love your country so much, state you are pro-peace, yet turn a blind eye to the murder and slaughter that happens on an almost daily basis. You almost confirm those actions with your silence.
I don't turn a blind eye, and I am not silent. I am a human rights activist, which means I don't just sit here. Now stop calling me a murderer in a passive-aggressive way, because that is "you almost confirm those actions with your silence" is.
I understand the point of your blog, to try to get us to see past the violence. But what can you expect of us when literally all we ever hear about Israel is the conflict? What does that say about your country in and of itself?
I expect of you to be curious about an issue you feel strongly about, and to show that you don't just speak out what you've heard but actually made up your own mind after hearing facts.
Perhaps Israel has dug itself a hole so deep that you can never expect discussion other than that of the conflict?
But it can. Just not by you and some others. Just that you feel compelled to divert the attention to that. I can understand why you feel that way. Just like there are people that whenever they hear "United States" can't help themselves but giving a tirade about their politics.
Indeed, because of such, I would not dare to pretend to make such a statement.
Hopefully you consider the above in wondering why people can be so seemingly hostile towards Israelis, Palestinians, and the conflict as a whole.
You would not dare to pretend? I live here. I'm a rational, non-religious, open-minded guy, and I live in Israel. I'm a combat soldier who has been IN the conflict. And yet I still say it. But you just don't want to listen. I think that says about you more than it does about me.
|
So far all I'm seeing from this thread is:
1. The OP is actually being insightful and basing views on peace rather than the bad stuff
2. People bashing the OP because all they can see is black
The truth is guys, nothing in this world is simply white or black, but in shades of gray. I had a friend who went to Israel at one time and he said it was a great experience. Obviously views change if you've actually been near the areas that have been attacked, but please let's not base views just on media.
If you TL;DR - world is in shades of gray, find the parts that are the brighter shades of gray :3
|
I like you kazius, and im proud to hear you an activist and non religious.
There is many israelis i love, like Epharim Kishon Great writer, lmao just thinking of him.
Just for interes, we dont have many chances to hear from a guy that lives there 
How many israelis are deeply religious, in the therms of they belive the land was promest to them? (in setimated %)
And is the new generation getting away from religious trends?
You dont have to answear if you dont wana talk about religion, i think religion has still a very important role in shaping societies, countrys and peoples behaviour.
I know israel is a very modern place, westernized, with night life, all kind of people, tolerant to religions to certain extend, and im sure there is nice and bad people like everywhere.
Im sorry to making the impresion of thinking that all israelis are religious, i just though the jews where brought up with religion and with certain rules they have to follow a life time.
Thanks for being patient and showing us better.
I still dont agree with israels foreign affairs, or religious extrimism, but ye there are awesome people in israel for sure you 1 of them, thx for not raging
Thanks, really apreciate you making the post, hopefully there is many people like you in israel.
|
On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing
i loled about the native american part, although i agree with the general argument.
u cannot compare the immeasurable genocide and establishment on the entire americas to israel; it was a greater magnitude. hell, comparing the holocaust to what happened to the american indians is even incomparable.
|
Could you explain how your education system works?
Junior-middle-highschool? Then you're off to military then uni? I'm wondering how it works for you guys, especially in comparison to the Korean system (which we should all have a basic idea of, I guess)
Hypothetically speaking, what if there happened to be a massive ongoing SC2 proleague, and you were the number one star, and earned 200k/year or whatever, and you were 21 for example. Can you defer your service? For how long?
Also I read somewhere everyone in the Israeli military learns Krav Maga, and that it's supposed to be the best method for hand-to-hand combat if you're being attacked on the street or whatever. So what happens in a bar fight in the streets of Israeli? Do people just perfectly counter each other until they get tired? :O
|
On May 22 2011 21:28 Revolt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing i loled about the native american part, although i agree with the general argument. u cannot compare the immeasurable genocide and establishment on the entire americas to israel; it was a greater magnitude. hell, comparing the holocaust to what happened to the american indians is even incomparable.
you completely missed my point. i was in no way compared the death of the red indians with the holocaust.
i was talking about the indigenous people of the land(red indians used to live in USA, and supposedly israelites used to live in the land of israel).
so i just hope my point is clear now.
|
On May 22 2011 21:21 SpaceDreamer wrote:I like you kazius, and im proud to hear you an activist and non religious. There is many israelis i love, like Epharim Kishon Great writer, lmao just thinking of him. Just for interes, we dont have many chances to hear from a guy that lives there How many israelis are deeply religious, in the therms of they belive the land was promest to them? (in setimated %) And is the new generation getting away from religious trends? You dont have to answear if you dont wana talk about religion, i think religion has still a very important role in shaping societies, countrys and peoples behaviour. I know israel is a very modern place, westernized, with night life, all kind of people, tolerant to religions to certain extend, and im sure there is nice and bad people like everywhere. Im sorry to making the impresion of thinking that all israelis are religious, i just though the jews where brought up with religion and with certain rules they have to follow a life time. Thanks for being patient and showing us better. I still dont agree with israels foreign affairs, or religious extrimism, but ye there are awesome people in israel for sure you 1 of them, thx for not raging Thanks, really apreciate you making the post, hopefully there is many people like you in israel.
There are about 15% I would consider highly religious, but surprisingly, the correlation between that and belief that Israel should control Gaza and the West Bank isn't as clear as you would think. All those obviously believe in the promised land, but the interpretation varies - from "Israel should conquer everything and settle everything" from some crazy fringes, to "Israel is not the Jewish state from the bible and we hope it will be destroyed" on the other scale of crazy fringes.
We do study the old testament at school, but that doesn't really change how someone is religious - most kids hate studying it just like anything else. I'm personally thankful for it, my appreciation for classical literature has been greatly enhanced by it. As to "rules", that's up to parents. If you have religious parents, you grow up with those rules. As to most, football games are on saturdays, making people not watch football would cause a revolt here.
I don't agree with Israel's foreign affairs myself, the last government that I agreed with was headed by Ehud Barak, when Israel left Lebanon. Religious extremists make me sick, because they use religion to excuse being total dicks. Quite a lot of people feel this way as well... but most of those people are very reasonable and civil, hence you don't notice them as much.
I'm glad that I can help clear things up. BTW: I'm a big Kishon fan myself. Saw a play of his in the theatre a week ago. Genius.
|
What did you think of the movie zohan?
|
On May 23 2011 00:10 heladocasero wrote:
Could you explain how your education system works?
Junior-middle-highschool? Then you're off to military then uni? I'm wondering how it works for you guys, especially in comparison to the Korean system (which we should all have a basic idea of, I guess)
Hypothetically speaking, what if there happened to be a massive ongoing SC2 proleague, and you were the number one star, and earned 200k/year or whatever, and you were 21 for example. Can you defer your service? For how long?
Also I read somewhere everyone in the Israeli military learns Krav Maga, and that it's supposed to be the best method for hand-to-hand combat if you're being attacked on the street or whatever. So what happens in a bar fight in the streets of Israeli? Do people just perfectly counter each other until they get tired? :O
Basically elementary, middle and then high school, military, and then usually 2-12 months of backpacking, and then university. Actually, it's very similar to the Korean educational system.
Delaying the army can be done for studying in the university, and in rare cases, for rare sports talents. That's it. You can avoid going in the army due to medical conditions, psychiatric conditions, religious belief (that is the super-orthodox types), etc. e-sports is out of the question at the moment, but there is some flexibility in the system should something like that arise - and exceptions will be made.
Most soldiers learn a bit of Krav Maga, but the focus is fighting with a rifle as a weapon (even as brawling). So bar fights are basically the same for most people. Then again, you have people from spec-ops units that could beat the crap out of anyone in a second (Krav Maga is awesome at ending a fight quickly with brutal efficiency). So if you want to start a bar-fight in Israel, try and not pick it with one of those guys. But most of those guys don't bother with bar-fights.
|
On May 23 2011 09:53 T0fuuu wrote:
What did you think of the movie zohan?
Stupid, yet hilarious. The "going out of business" shop was so Israeli.
|
How can you have a remotely functioning democracy in a region plagued by dictators, despots and theocracies? How secular would you gauge Israel to be, compared to say western Europe?
|
On May 23 2011 12:04 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:
How can you have a remotely functioning democracy in a region plagued by dictators, despots and theocracies? How secular would you gauge Israel to be, compared to say western Europe?
I don't think that other countries really have any influence. Sure there is increased pressure on day to day life, and the security card is used by politicians more, but the system is inherently democratic, and the only people that are against democracy here are the religious extremes (which would want a theocracy, approximately 10%) and the communist party (under 5%). But since the issues of security and economy are so accentuated, the governing system is nearly a non-issue in the political game.
Israel is about as religious as the US, but the lack of law separating state and religion surprisingly makes most politicians pander far less to the religious vote (as they will go to the religious parties), so the influence kind of balances itself out naturally. I'd say most of western Europe is somewhat more secular, from the people I have met at least. Perhaps the more deeply religious people in western Europe just less vocal than in Israel and the US.
|
Hey, Kazius. I've been a voracious reader of anything I can find about Israel and that led into me reading many books about Jews, their religion, history, and lifestyle (even their famous Talmud scholars like Rashi). However, I've come to quite a different conclusion about Israel than the opinion most people are expressing here and I'm curious to hear your thoughts about it.
For one thing, the Arabs and Jews lived peacefully among each other in the land during the nineteenth century. After Israel declared independence, several Arab nations attacked the Jews.
This is where things change for me. The Arabs decided that they disapprove of a Jewish state.
Okay, fine.
They then decide the way to decide the outcome of the situation is war.
But it seems to me as thought the Jews thought this:
"If we win, we stay. If we lose, we perish."
However, the Arabs seemed to think like this:
"If we win, we get the land. If we lose ... well, we still want the land."
Not only that, but the Arabs lost several wars to the Israelis.
So, it seems to me that the Arab solution to a Jewish state was war. And they lost.
What do you think about this? Very eagerly awaiting your response.
|
And also, after all I've read, I just do not believe the Israeli response to the Palestinians is one of malice intent. From what I have learned, Israelis do not wish death among every Palestinian. They simply wish for them to stop blowing them up.
So the blockade is a result of the paranoia of being blown up, not from the wish for the death of every Arab.
From here, we can see that the blockade by land, sea, and air is more a result of the various factions fighting for control of the Palestinian territories who insist on firing Katyusha rockets at Israeli towns (And I hate to say it, but there is also a gigantic Islamic element to this. I have never read about a Christian Palestinian blowing themselves up. However, George Habbas, the founder of the PLO, was a Christian but never fought actively in combat). Just curious about your thoughts on what role Islam plays in this conflict (since Arabs seem to view this as a Jews vs. Arabs rather than a Jews vs. Islam conflict).
Edit: And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Moshe Dayan open the borders for the Palestinians during his time in office? He wanted the occupation to seem as invisible as possible, correct? During his time, there was no intifada (but there was another war). Do you think his way of dealing with the Palestinians was better than the mainstream Likud policies?
Edit: Ugh, hate to edit again, but there's so much I want to discuss with you about an issue that interests me so much. Do you know Tommy Lapid? I'm just a fan of the guy and want you to know how the Israeli public viewed him. I remember his quote to Dan Rather in 60 Minutes when he was referring to the religious Jews and said "They want all of us to go to their Yeshivas, but then if we do, who would defend this country? They say God will protect us. Well, God didn't protect us during the Holocaust. He slept. He nodded." I just found him to be very charismatic and I really like the guy, just curious about Israeli opinion of him.
|
i like walking down the streets of the US. the US is an awesome place, because there are africans, whites, mexicans, orientals, and etc. hence, we have some pretty BOMB food here and quite a nice variety. how is the food there? is the hummus from the hummus competitions any good?
bobby flay does these things called, "throwdown with bobby flay" and challenges people to food competitions. have you guys thrown it down with lebanon?
|
On May 23 2011 16:21 pubbanana wrote:
And also, after all I've read, I just do not believe the Israeli response to the Palestinians is one of malice intent. From what I have learned, Israelis do not wish death among every Palestinian. They simply wish for them to stop blowing them up.
So the blockade is a result of the paranoia of being blown up, not from the wish for the death of every Arab.
From here, we can see that the blockade by land, sea, and air is more a result of the various factions fighting for control of the Palestinian territories who insist on firing Katyusha rockets at Israeli towns (And I hate to say it, but there is also a gigantic Islamic element to this. I have never read about a Christian Palestinian blowing themselves up. However, George Habbas, the founder of the PLO, was a Christian but never fought actively in combat). Just curious about your thoughts on what role Islam plays in this conflict (since Arabs seem to view this as a Jews vs. Arabs rather than a Jews vs. Islam conflict).
It's extremist Islam that plays a role, not Islam... and extremist Islam is using the situation in order to gain more power. Most Palestinians I've met, and there have been a LOT, just want to live a standard life of family and work. That is why suicide bombers are NEVER the people in power or their families. I see leaders of the Islamic Jihad calling for attacks on Israel, but somehow, their children are never the ones to carry it out. People like that prey on the disenfranchised, taking suggestible people with nothing to lose and turning them into political pawns. They use Islam as an excuse to do horrible things, just as the extremist settlers use the Jewish religion to be equally horrible.
I think one of the worst things that the Islamic element of this does is a try to make their actions a reflection on an entire religion. The religious extremes use religion to justify their actions, because you can not argue with God's will - and therefor they must be right. Islamic culture has been of a great influence on human history, advancing mathematics and science in the world. I can't help but feel that the strength of the fundamentalist extremists gives people an incorrect view. The people waving the flag of religion in order to further themselves are just cynical abusers of power and influence. They just twist the word of God in order to use people who believe as tools.
|
so what, when you walk into a store in israel and buy 20 bucks worth of groceries, the till girl smiling at you while she says "שיהיה לך יום טוב" is genuinely happy about your visit?
or does she just not smile?
i think you got some kind of rose-tinted glasses on.
|
United States22883 Posts
Why is Israeli falafel so dry?
|
On June 03 2011 21:16 Jibba wrote:
Why is Israeli falafel so dry?
To encourage you to drown it in tehina, of course.
|
On June 03 2011 21:07 bogderpirat wrote:
so what, when you walk into a store in israel and buy 20 bucks worth of groceries, the till girl smiling at you while she says "שיהיה לך יום טוב" is genuinely happy about your visit?
or does she just not smile?
i think you got some kind of rose-tinted glasses on.
I... actually don't know how to answer that. If that is your example of personal interaction... I... wow. You got me. This actually has me stumped.
|
On June 03 2011 21:07 bogderpirat wrote:
so what, when you walk into a store in israel and buy 20 bucks worth of groceries, the till girl smiling at you while she says "שיהיה לך יום טוב" is genuinely happy about your visit?
or does she just not smile?
i think you got some kind of rose-tinted glasses on.
Most of the time, no, but it really depends on the personality of the person. It's not like America where it's part of there job to say that.
|
My question is more for you personally
Why are you a combat soldier if you are pro peace, i appreciate that it is a requirement to be in the army and all that, but there are a lot of jobs in the army that don't involve being a frontline soldier, it seems a little odd to me?
|
|
|
United States22154 Posts
please don't bump old threads unless you actually have something to add.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
