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I'm Israeli. Born and raised mostly in Israel (and the United States for an interim). I fancy myself a rather clever person. I'm liberal person, a religious agnostic, and believe human rights to be an important value - including freedom of speech as a basic human right. My political agenda is pro-peace, and that the Palestinian state is a necessity. I lived in the US for a few years, travelled the world and visited all kinds of awesome places. Places where day to day news does not involve local death and destruction. With low taxes, peace of mind, and generally speaking - a worry free existence. I made friends from fifteen countries, and still keep in touch.
I was drafted into the military, as a combat soldier, and do reserve duty for about a month a year, which totally sucks since I have a life to live. Taxes in Israel are relatively high, due to an unfortunately necessary high expense for security. Israelis are argumentative by any scale (maybe the Lebanese could give contest). The universal truth applies: the dumber people are, the louder and more obnoxious they get. Coupled with the argumentative quality, this makes for some very frustrating debates. This is extremely frustrating considering the right-wing and hawkish political agendas which are popular. Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I could move to some place else, and the idea is quite tempting.
With all that in mind, Israel is awesome.
The people may by loud, but in a pinch no one is more helpful. While rude, people here are genuine, and friends are genuine friends - something that is much rarer in most societies. People speak their mind, even if their mind isn't exactly the finest. People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
And we have hot chicks.
This is my first post in this blog, and while I decided for the most part I will keep it cheerful and funny. But I will use this blog to answer any non-political question about Israel (as the majority of political inquiries about Israel is by someone who already made up their minds).
So, ask away.
 
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No. Israel is far from awesome. In fact, Israel is the complete opposite of awesome.
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How would you assess the combat capabilities of Israeli special ops vis-a-vis the western elite (Seals, Delta Force, Green Beret, SAS)?
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On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said....
On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people.
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So Israel is awesome and the west is 'evil and are all liars'?
COOL STORY BRO
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
And we have hot chicks.
Yes. Yes you do. I see a drunken phone call to my Israeli ex in the near future. Thanks for reminding me of her you bastard >.<
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Israeli chick from fast five is prettty damn hot I must agree
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I am not sure if OP is trolling or not.
My policy is that Israelis whose heritage is not native to the land go back to Poland, Germany, Russia, etc., that the overwhelmingly powerful Zionist lobbies in the US and some European countries are abolished, and a state of Palestine is made out of the territory of the old British mandate of Palestine. It would do well to largely undo the absolute horrors that have been wrought and continue to be.
People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I will interpret this as a joke. I say that because I don't wish to interpret it as a flat-out insult as I am a bit optimistic.
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i don't know why people are jumping the guy just for making a post that says that israel has pluses along with its minuses in a time when it's being scrutinized by the entire world. the guy even said that he believes in a palestinian state being a necessity and in peace.. what's wrong with being happy with your country despite its international policies. i would say that i'm happy to be in the united states despite the fact that the united states is currently causing immense suffering in numerous countries in the middle east. (including arming and backing israel for the past forty years against the palestinians)
i am just curious about the atmosphere amongst the people in israel regarding the border talk. how do people feel about it in israel? do they feel threatened? do you think there is any possibility of a peaceful settlement?
edit: i do think that you could have worded your part about israelis being genuine vs westerners being duplicitous a little better. there are genuine people in every country as well as duplicitous ones and you can find genuine friends anywhere.. it does come off a bit rude but i, like the poster above me, don't really think you meant it that way seeing as you made friends from different countries.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Have you been to one/some of the Israeli SC2 lans? They looked superfun.
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Nothing against you specifically...but having had cousins who lived in palestine (7 and 9 years old respectively) that were shot dead by israeli soldiers for no good reason...I'm afraid I can't agree.
Not meaning to derail, sorry. Might help shed some light on one of the reasons people would disagree with you.
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I see nothing great about a nation that holes up millions of people in Gaza
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On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people.
The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate.
I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people.
On May 21 2011 17:17 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:I am not sure if OP is trolling or not. My policy is that Israelis whose heritage is not native to the land go back to Poland, Germany, Russia, etc., that the overwhelmingly powerful Zionist lobbies in the US and some European countries are abolished, and a state of Palestine is made out of the territory of the old British mandate of Palestine. It would do well to largely undo the absolute horrors that have been wrought and continue to be. Show nested quote + People are direct, warm and friendly - not politically correct, guarded and polite. When someone smiles at you, thanks you, or say that they like you as a person... they mean it. Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous. I will interpret this as a joke. I say that because I don't wish to interpret it as a flat-out insult as I am a bit optimistic.
Go back to Poland, Germany and Russia? Do you have any idea what people ran away from? I will interpret that as a joke, because I don't wish to point out that my grandparents on one side were Polish, and that my great-grandparents on the other were Russian, and MY HOME is Israel. In Israel there was an idea calling to transfer Palestinian population outside of Israel. Only the right-wing nutjobs don't think it's inhumane.
So while you say that Israel does absolute horrors, you personally think it would be a good idea to do something far worse. Hence, you made my point about being duplicitous, while being outraged at it.
On May 21 2011 17:36 NonSenSeWins wrote:
i don't know why people are jumping the guy just for making a post that says that israel has pluses along with its minuses in a time when it's being scrutinized by the entire world. the guy even said that he believes in a palestinian state being a necessity and in peace.. what's wrong with being happy with your country despite its international policies. i would say that i'm happy to be in the united states despite the fact that the united states is currently causing immense suffering in numerous countries in the middle east. (including arming and backing israel for the past forty years against the palestinians)
i am just curious about the atmosphere amongst the people in israel regarding the border talk. how do people feel about it in israel? do they feel threatened? do you think there is any possibility of a peaceful settlement?
edit: i do think that you could have worded your part about israelis being genuine vs westerners being duplicitous a little better. there are genuine people in every country as well as duplicitous ones and you can find genuine friends anywhere.. it does come off a bit rude but i, like the poster above me, don't really think you meant it that way seeing as you made friends from different countries.
I guess most people are concerned about borders. The fact that neighboring countries allowed people freely through the border in order to violently protest is disturbing, and considering that from the west bank to some of the cities is less than a 3 hour walk, this does a lot of harm to the possibility of peace according to the 1967 borders. Unfortunately, this strikes at the basis of any (rational) peace initiative.
I have become a skeptic when it comes to peace initiatives. The situation is extremely volatile, and while I would like peace talks to resume, the current Netanyahu regime will stall until someone else is elected. I don't think that the political climate is ready for honest negotiations, as it was in the mid-nineties (an initiative which failed because Clinton tried to twist Palestinian and Israeli arms too hard, and forced a rushed pace).
I will give an example from my experience. A guy from Canada was caught with some weed in a country where you could bribe the cops. He didn't have enough money - so he went to the backpacker's hostel where he was staying at the time. All the guys in the Hostel were nice to him, smiled and made small talk in the past week. His travelling mates gave excuses, and in a hostel with about 80% of the people being from Europe or the US, the only people who helped him stay out of jail were all the Israelis (who pitched in for a guy they didn't know) and one guy from Brazil.
What I did was make a generalization - while it means nothing for specific people, I've met enough thousands of people from the US, UK, Germany, France, Spain, Australia, New-Zealand, Switzerland, Canada, and others to give me enough information for a (I admit, phrased in a somewhat inflammatory way) generalization - and while out of those, I know very few well, it is a lot of information when summed. While this doesn't say much about any specific person, enough experiences like this have convinced me that in general, there is a big difference between being generally amiable and actually meaning this in most people. Much less so with Israelis.
On May 21 2011 18:06 GoDLy MD wrote:
Nothing against you specifically...but having had cousins who lived in palestine (7 and 9 years old respectively) that were shot dead by israeli soldiers for no good reason...I'm afraid I can't agree.
Not meaning to derail, sorry. Might help shed some light on one of the reasons people would disagree with you.
I am sorry for your loss, and understand nothing I can say will make you like Israel. That is why I'm trying to keep this thread more about general questions about Israel and less about the general political situation, and talk only about my opinions. I love my country despite all it's (admittedly many) faults, and think it is awesome. I know the reasons people disagree with that, and I personally agree with most.
I hope you understand that everyone in the region has lost someone due to the conflict, myself included. I try to channel that emotion into trying to make sure peace can be made so this will not happen to other people. Because more hate will only make things worse.
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Congratulations on patting yourself on the shoulder. All I can say is that Israel has a terrible reputation throughout all the countries I have been too. I guess oppressing another nation after all the terrible things that happened to the jews in WW2 makes a lot of people think it was deserved after all.
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On May 21 2011 16:55 Caladbolg wrote:
How would you assess the combat capabilities of Israeli special ops vis-a-vis the western elite (Seals, Delta Force, Green Beret, SAS)?
I have never seen Seals, Delta, or SAS doing any combat. In combat situations, our naval commandos probably have as much, if not more, field experience than anyone. As well as some of the most physically grueling training.
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hows it feel to completely destroy innocent children's lives and futures by blockading necessarily supplies and humanitarian aid to ravaged neighborhoods? (google "gaza children blockade" for any number of articles on the subject)
hows it feel to wage war and live in territory with the argument that "MY book says i own this land, so fuck you?" (yes i know about the UN resolutions, i am going beyond that)
israel is very, VERY far from the utopia the OP tries to portray it as. by its very existence, it's a cesspool of zealots who turn a blind eye to the trouble they cause.
note i think palestine is the same way. "herp my book says i own the land" "NO MY BOOK says =I= own the land!"
why not be adults and stop killing each other based on what book you like to read, and share it?
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On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people.
What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel.
Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts.
Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future.
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On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future.
There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general.
My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does.
Does that make me a racist?
I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist?
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On May 21 2011 19:00 annul wrote:
hows it feel to completely destroy innocent children's lives and futures by blockading necessarily supplies and humanitarian aid to ravaged neighborhoods? (google "gaza children blockade" for any number of articles on the subject)
hows it feel to wage war and live in territory with the argument that "MY book says i own this land, so fuck you?" (yes i know about the UN resolutions, i am going beyond that)
israel is very, VERY far from the utopia the OP tries to portray it as. by its very existence, it's a cesspool of zealots who turn a blind eye to the trouble they cause.
note i think palestine is the same way. "herp my book says i own the land" "NO MY BOOK says =I= own the land!"
why not be adults and stop killing each other based on what book you like to read, and share it?
I never did any of the things you asked about. I wouldn't know. I never tried to portray it as a utopia. I just said that with all it's many faults as a home (the main ones were the ones I listed), it is still a good place to be.
I started my post with the fact that I am strongly pro-peace and would love nothing more than a peaceful resolution of the conflict, am a religious agnostic (meaning: I won't believe in God until I get proper evidence, but I try not being a dick about it  ). Despite the media's portrayal, the majority of Israelis are pro-peace (to varying degrees). Politics is a dirty business, and just like Bush did in the US, the "the world is a dangerous place" card is a strong one, even towards rational people.
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On May 21 2011 19:17 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:02 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 18:42 Kazius wrote:On May 21 2011 17:04 deathly rat wrote:On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Comparatively, people from most "western" countries are duplicitous.
I'm interested to know why you think this. Especially since you previously said.... On May 21 2011 16:33 Kazius wrote:
Racism here is just as abundant as anywhere else in the world, which I find horrible considering that the holocaust should have taught us better.
I'd also be interested to know how you would generalise African or Asian people. The connection between history and now just eludes a lot of people. It's much less so in places like Tel-Aviv and the big cities (similar to NY and California in the US), but racism is not duplicitous in itself, deplorable as it is. Duplicitous in social interaction is usually smiling and being polite to someone that you hate. I try to avoid generalizing people, but it is a basic human trait (inductive thought process, generalizing from personal history). I can (and do) treat each person as a person I don't know when I first meet them, and do keep an open mind. I don't generalize African people, as I have met very few (about 15-20 people, mostly from South Africa). Of the Asian people I've had in-depth conversations with, most have been Japanese, and they are just... different, on many levels, than people from other countries. They are usually reserved, but very authentic at expressing emotions - when they wonder about something or enjoy it, you can see it from a mile - and when at parties, they party just as hard as Israelis (which is no small feat). I also dated a girl from South Korea when I was in Perth (Australia). She was awesome. But I can't infer from her and BW/SC2 enough to make an opinion about how South Koreans are as a people. What is Racist is saying that western people are duplicitous, which is calling them untrustworthy and liars. What you seem to be describing would be called being polite by most reasonable people. It is often polite to smile and be freindly to strangers or people you don't even like, because this is the way adult people live in harmony with their neighbours. If you are rude and unpleasent to the people you dislike in your life then it's not so surprising you end up with such a combative place as Israel. Also, from my experience of living in Japan and visiting South Korea I can tell you that the stereotype that they are reserved is a complete myth, and they are no more "authentic" than any other people. Indeed, from my experience politeness will require people there to act in a much more freindly way than in the west, even though they might hate your guts. Avoid making judgments on nations or peoples and try to understand their culture, and you will become less racist and more open minded in the future. There is sometimes a dissonance between behavior and actions - and if someone dislikes me, I'd rather they would just avoid me, or even just be abrupt, and not smile at me and be polite and feign warmth. If I dislike someone, I don't bother talking with them, and when forced to, I keep it short, to the point and factual. This is the Israeli way in general. My experience with Japanese people was usually with people from the high-tech industry (as well as a few of ravers, and a van of Japanese people travelling in Australia - but those guys kept to themselves), and perhaps I got the wrong impression. As I said, I try not to make generalizations despite the fact that inevitably, everyone does. Does that make me a racist? I suppose in some ways it does. Then again, I have yet to meet a person who is truly detached from all past experience when thinking about groups of people. So according to your definition, have I met anyone not racist?
Yes everybody is tempted to form opinions on groups of people, but when you feel like this you can ask yourself if you are forming views which you are comfortable holding, and re-adjust your views. So, a black man might rob you, and at that moment you instinctively think black guys are all robbers. But later you can reflect that this isn't logical, so you don't think this any more.
After a while it becomes a habit and you won't draw conclusions like that in the first place. This has been my own line of reasoning anyway.
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