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On May 22 2011 11:52 OmniEulogy wrote:
do you think the general publics hate of Israel is mostly because it seems like the cool thing to do politically to get ahead is bash your country, or the fact that people generally don't understand the history behind your country and think you've started every war for the last 200 years in that region?
I'm being serious how do you personally see it over there?
I had the privilege of learning how to handle a rifle from two former Yamam members about a year ago and always had very interesting discussions with them during the breaks in training, how long is basic in Israel? or the equivalent of basic training.
I don't think it's the fact that hating Israel is cool per se. I've known a lot of people that know nothing about the conflict except what they show on BBC News or CNN once in a while, and maybe a bit more, and decided that Israel is just wrong. It's an easy way to feel morally superior. The history of the whole thing is irrelevant. There would be no conflict without the Jewish settlement. So it doesn't matter who is right. Just as there would be no Apartheid if there were no white people there. It's a matter of perspective. On a personal level, disillusionment would be a pretty strong word to describe my view. Most people will not listen: they have their opinion and will stick by it religiously - meaning that no fact I will give can influence them. Ironically, those are the ones that bring up religion the most. That used to depress me. And to some extent, it still does. But it's just a fact.
Basic training depends. For desk-jobs and most women, it's a month. For most combat soldiers it's two, for infantry and others it's four months. Of course, for some units, there is "unit-based basic", which makes basic look like a cakewalk, which lasts another 1-3 months. So in general, basic lasts from 1-7 months, 2-4 being the most common for combat soldiers.
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On May 22 2011 17:07 a176 wrote:
I think that many wonder how you can describe how you love your country so much, state you are pro-peace, yet turn a blind eye to the murder and slaughter that happens on an almost daily basis. You almost confirm those actions with your silence.
I don't turn a blind eye, and I am not silent. I am a human rights activist, which means I don't just sit here. Now stop calling me a murderer in a passive-aggressive way, because that is "you almost confirm those actions with your silence" is.
I understand the point of your blog, to try to get us to see past the violence. But what can you expect of us when literally all we ever hear about Israel is the conflict? What does that say about your country in and of itself?
I expect of you to be curious about an issue you feel strongly about, and to show that you don't just speak out what you've heard but actually made up your own mind after hearing facts.
Perhaps Israel has dug itself a hole so deep that you can never expect discussion other than that of the conflict?
But it can. Just not by you and some others. Just that you feel compelled to divert the attention to that. I can understand why you feel that way. Just like there are people that whenever they hear "United States" can't help themselves but giving a tirade about their politics.
Indeed, because of such, I would not dare to pretend to make such a statement.
Hopefully you consider the above in wondering why people can be so seemingly hostile towards Israelis, Palestinians, and the conflict as a whole.
You would not dare to pretend? I live here. I'm a rational, non-religious, open-minded guy, and I live in Israel. I'm a combat soldier who has been IN the conflict. And yet I still say it. But you just don't want to listen. I think that says about you more than it does about me.
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So far all I'm seeing from this thread is:
1. The OP is actually being insightful and basing views on peace rather than the bad stuff
2. People bashing the OP because all they can see is black
The truth is guys, nothing in this world is simply white or black, but in shades of gray. I had a friend who went to Israel at one time and he said it was a great experience. Obviously views change if you've actually been near the areas that have been attacked, but please let's not base views just on media.
If you TL;DR - world is in shades of gray, find the parts that are the brighter shades of gray :3
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I like you kazius, and im proud to hear you an activist and non religious.
There is many israelis i love, like Epharim Kishon Great writer, lmao just thinking of him.
Just for interes, we dont have many chances to hear from a guy that lives there 
How many israelis are deeply religious, in the therms of they belive the land was promest to them? (in setimated %)
And is the new generation getting away from religious trends?
You dont have to answear if you dont wana talk about religion, i think religion has still a very important role in shaping societies, countrys and peoples behaviour.
I know israel is a very modern place, westernized, with night life, all kind of people, tolerant to religions to certain extend, and im sure there is nice and bad people like everywhere.
Im sorry to making the impresion of thinking that all israelis are religious, i just though the jews where brought up with religion and with certain rules they have to follow a life time.
Thanks for being patient and showing us better.
I still dont agree with israels foreign affairs, or religious extrimism, but ye there are awesome people in israel for sure you 1 of them, thx for not raging
Thanks, really apreciate you making the post, hopefully there is many people like you in israel.
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On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing
i loled about the native american part, although i agree with the general argument.
u cannot compare the immeasurable genocide and establishment on the entire americas to israel; it was a greater magnitude. hell, comparing the holocaust to what happened to the american indians is even incomparable.
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Could you explain how your education system works?
Junior-middle-highschool? Then you're off to military then uni? I'm wondering how it works for you guys, especially in comparison to the Korean system (which we should all have a basic idea of, I guess)
Hypothetically speaking, what if there happened to be a massive ongoing SC2 proleague, and you were the number one star, and earned 200k/year or whatever, and you were 21 for example. Can you defer your service? For how long?
Also I read somewhere everyone in the Israeli military learns Krav Maga, and that it's supposed to be the best method for hand-to-hand combat if you're being attacked on the street or whatever. So what happens in a bar fight in the streets of Israeli? Do people just perfectly counter each other until they get tired? :O
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On May 22 2011 21:28 Revolt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 02:16 jojoleb wrote:
Guys i live in lebanon.
and israel has got to be one of the worst states out there.
they occupied 10% of my country for 25 years(disregarding UN resolution to get out for most of that time) they continue to occupy 1 town to this day. they have occupied most of the golan heights (which is legally for syria)
and of course they occupy Palestine on a day-by day basis building illegaly(google settlements) on where it should be a Palestinian homeland.
that fact that you say israel is your HOME is a joke. there is not a single artifact or historical evidence that says there were alot of jews who lived there even. the fact of the matter is that is palestine. israel was only created 60 years ago by some lunatic that wanted to give the jews a country so that they can live in it(do you need more racism than that )
israel is based on racism claiming that only jews can go and live there ? oh comon. thats a joke !!
its like telling the USA to give the land back to the red indians coz they lived there some 300 years ago (or somethign like that ) i mean seriously ? do you think they should give back the land that was supposed to be inhabited by the israelites 5000 years ago ? why not give it to the people who lived there 4000 years ago ? 3000 years ago ? 500 years ago ??
.....israel is a joke. this is palestine. it should be called palestine. and it shouldn't be "made" for one religious group of people it should be a democracy for everyone to enjoy.
oh and btw looking at the OP, lebanon has beautiful girls, friendly people, great good and everything you mentioned. but they dont do state terrorism like israel does.
thank you for reading trough this whole thing i loled about the native american part, although i agree with the general argument. u cannot compare the immeasurable genocide and establishment on the entire americas to israel; it was a greater magnitude. hell, comparing the holocaust to what happened to the american indians is even incomparable.
you completely missed my point. i was in no way compared the death of the red indians with the holocaust.
i was talking about the indigenous people of the land(red indians used to live in USA, and supposedly israelites used to live in the land of israel).
so i just hope my point is clear now.
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On May 22 2011 21:21 SpaceDreamer wrote:I like you kazius, and im proud to hear you an activist and non religious. There is many israelis i love, like Epharim Kishon Great writer, lmao just thinking of him. Just for interes, we dont have many chances to hear from a guy that lives there How many israelis are deeply religious, in the therms of they belive the land was promest to them? (in setimated %) And is the new generation getting away from religious trends? You dont have to answear if you dont wana talk about religion, i think religion has still a very important role in shaping societies, countrys and peoples behaviour. I know israel is a very modern place, westernized, with night life, all kind of people, tolerant to religions to certain extend, and im sure there is nice and bad people like everywhere. Im sorry to making the impresion of thinking that all israelis are religious, i just though the jews where brought up with religion and with certain rules they have to follow a life time. Thanks for being patient and showing us better. I still dont agree with israels foreign affairs, or religious extrimism, but ye there are awesome people in israel for sure you 1 of them, thx for not raging Thanks, really apreciate you making the post, hopefully there is many people like you in israel.
There are about 15% I would consider highly religious, but surprisingly, the correlation between that and belief that Israel should control Gaza and the West Bank isn't as clear as you would think. All those obviously believe in the promised land, but the interpretation varies - from "Israel should conquer everything and settle everything" from some crazy fringes, to "Israel is not the Jewish state from the bible and we hope it will be destroyed" on the other scale of crazy fringes.
We do study the old testament at school, but that doesn't really change how someone is religious - most kids hate studying it just like anything else. I'm personally thankful for it, my appreciation for classical literature has been greatly enhanced by it. As to "rules", that's up to parents. If you have religious parents, you grow up with those rules. As to most, football games are on saturdays, making people not watch football would cause a revolt here.
I don't agree with Israel's foreign affairs myself, the last government that I agreed with was headed by Ehud Barak, when Israel left Lebanon. Religious extremists make me sick, because they use religion to excuse being total dicks. Quite a lot of people feel this way as well... but most of those people are very reasonable and civil, hence you don't notice them as much.
I'm glad that I can help clear things up. BTW: I'm a big Kishon fan myself. Saw a play of his in the theatre a week ago. Genius.
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What did you think of the movie zohan?
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On May 23 2011 00:10 heladocasero wrote:
Could you explain how your education system works?
Junior-middle-highschool? Then you're off to military then uni? I'm wondering how it works for you guys, especially in comparison to the Korean system (which we should all have a basic idea of, I guess)
Hypothetically speaking, what if there happened to be a massive ongoing SC2 proleague, and you were the number one star, and earned 200k/year or whatever, and you were 21 for example. Can you defer your service? For how long?
Also I read somewhere everyone in the Israeli military learns Krav Maga, and that it's supposed to be the best method for hand-to-hand combat if you're being attacked on the street or whatever. So what happens in a bar fight in the streets of Israeli? Do people just perfectly counter each other until they get tired? :O
Basically elementary, middle and then high school, military, and then usually 2-12 months of backpacking, and then university. Actually, it's very similar to the Korean educational system.
Delaying the army can be done for studying in the university, and in rare cases, for rare sports talents. That's it. You can avoid going in the army due to medical conditions, psychiatric conditions, religious belief (that is the super-orthodox types), etc. e-sports is out of the question at the moment, but there is some flexibility in the system should something like that arise - and exceptions will be made.
Most soldiers learn a bit of Krav Maga, but the focus is fighting with a rifle as a weapon (even as brawling). So bar fights are basically the same for most people. Then again, you have people from spec-ops units that could beat the crap out of anyone in a second (Krav Maga is awesome at ending a fight quickly with brutal efficiency). So if you want to start a bar-fight in Israel, try and not pick it with one of those guys. But most of those guys don't bother with bar-fights.
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On May 23 2011 09:53 T0fuuu wrote:
What did you think of the movie zohan?
Stupid, yet hilarious. The "going out of business" shop was so Israeli.
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How can you have a remotely functioning democracy in a region plagued by dictators, despots and theocracies? How secular would you gauge Israel to be, compared to say western Europe?
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On May 23 2011 12:04 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:
How can you have a remotely functioning democracy in a region plagued by dictators, despots and theocracies? How secular would you gauge Israel to be, compared to say western Europe?
I don't think that other countries really have any influence. Sure there is increased pressure on day to day life, and the security card is used by politicians more, but the system is inherently democratic, and the only people that are against democracy here are the religious extremes (which would want a theocracy, approximately 10%) and the communist party (under 5%). But since the issues of security and economy are so accentuated, the governing system is nearly a non-issue in the political game.
Israel is about as religious as the US, but the lack of law separating state and religion surprisingly makes most politicians pander far less to the religious vote (as they will go to the religious parties), so the influence kind of balances itself out naturally. I'd say most of western Europe is somewhat more secular, from the people I have met at least. Perhaps the more deeply religious people in western Europe just less vocal than in Israel and the US.
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Hey, Kazius. I've been a voracious reader of anything I can find about Israel and that led into me reading many books about Jews, their religion, history, and lifestyle (even their famous Talmud scholars like Rashi). However, I've come to quite a different conclusion about Israel than the opinion most people are expressing here and I'm curious to hear your thoughts about it.
For one thing, the Arabs and Jews lived peacefully among each other in the land during the nineteenth century. After Israel declared independence, several Arab nations attacked the Jews.
This is where things change for me. The Arabs decided that they disapprove of a Jewish state.
Okay, fine.
They then decide the way to decide the outcome of the situation is war.
But it seems to me as thought the Jews thought this:
"If we win, we stay. If we lose, we perish."
However, the Arabs seemed to think like this:
"If we win, we get the land. If we lose ... well, we still want the land."
Not only that, but the Arabs lost several wars to the Israelis.
So, it seems to me that the Arab solution to a Jewish state was war. And they lost.
What do you think about this? Very eagerly awaiting your response.
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And also, after all I've read, I just do not believe the Israeli response to the Palestinians is one of malice intent. From what I have learned, Israelis do not wish death among every Palestinian. They simply wish for them to stop blowing them up.
So the blockade is a result of the paranoia of being blown up, not from the wish for the death of every Arab.
From here, we can see that the blockade by land, sea, and air is more a result of the various factions fighting for control of the Palestinian territories who insist on firing Katyusha rockets at Israeli towns (And I hate to say it, but there is also a gigantic Islamic element to this. I have never read about a Christian Palestinian blowing themselves up. However, George Habbas, the founder of the PLO, was a Christian but never fought actively in combat). Just curious about your thoughts on what role Islam plays in this conflict (since Arabs seem to view this as a Jews vs. Arabs rather than a Jews vs. Islam conflict).
Edit: And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Moshe Dayan open the borders for the Palestinians during his time in office? He wanted the occupation to seem as invisible as possible, correct? During his time, there was no intifada (but there was another war). Do you think his way of dealing with the Palestinians was better than the mainstream Likud policies?
Edit: Ugh, hate to edit again, but there's so much I want to discuss with you about an issue that interests me so much. Do you know Tommy Lapid? I'm just a fan of the guy and want you to know how the Israeli public viewed him. I remember his quote to Dan Rather in 60 Minutes when he was referring to the religious Jews and said "They want all of us to go to their Yeshivas, but then if we do, who would defend this country? They say God will protect us. Well, God didn't protect us during the Holocaust. He slept. He nodded." I just found him to be very charismatic and I really like the guy, just curious about Israeli opinion of him.
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i like walking down the streets of the US. the US is an awesome place, because there are africans, whites, mexicans, orientals, and etc. hence, we have some pretty BOMB food here and quite a nice variety. how is the food there? is the hummus from the hummus competitions any good?
bobby flay does these things called, "throwdown with bobby flay" and challenges people to food competitions. have you guys thrown it down with lebanon?
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On May 23 2011 16:21 pubbanana wrote:
And also, after all I've read, I just do not believe the Israeli response to the Palestinians is one of malice intent. From what I have learned, Israelis do not wish death among every Palestinian. They simply wish for them to stop blowing them up.
So the blockade is a result of the paranoia of being blown up, not from the wish for the death of every Arab.
From here, we can see that the blockade by land, sea, and air is more a result of the various factions fighting for control of the Palestinian territories who insist on firing Katyusha rockets at Israeli towns (And I hate to say it, but there is also a gigantic Islamic element to this. I have never read about a Christian Palestinian blowing themselves up. However, George Habbas, the founder of the PLO, was a Christian but never fought actively in combat). Just curious about your thoughts on what role Islam plays in this conflict (since Arabs seem to view this as a Jews vs. Arabs rather than a Jews vs. Islam conflict).
It's extremist Islam that plays a role, not Islam... and extremist Islam is using the situation in order to gain more power. Most Palestinians I've met, and there have been a LOT, just want to live a standard life of family and work. That is why suicide bombers are NEVER the people in power or their families. I see leaders of the Islamic Jihad calling for attacks on Israel, but somehow, their children are never the ones to carry it out. People like that prey on the disenfranchised, taking suggestible people with nothing to lose and turning them into political pawns. They use Islam as an excuse to do horrible things, just as the extremist settlers use the Jewish religion to be equally horrible.
I think one of the worst things that the Islamic element of this does is a try to make their actions a reflection on an entire religion. The religious extremes use religion to justify their actions, because you can not argue with God's will - and therefor they must be right. Islamic culture has been of a great influence on human history, advancing mathematics and science in the world. I can't help but feel that the strength of the fundamentalist extremists gives people an incorrect view. The people waving the flag of religion in order to further themselves are just cynical abusers of power and influence. They just twist the word of God in order to use people who believe as tools.
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so what, when you walk into a store in israel and buy 20 bucks worth of groceries, the till girl smiling at you while she says "שיהיה לך יום טוב" is genuinely happy about your visit?
or does she just not smile?
i think you got some kind of rose-tinted glasses on.
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United States22883 Posts
Why is Israeli falafel so dry?
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On June 03 2011 21:16 Jibba wrote:
Why is Israeli falafel so dry?
To encourage you to drown it in tehina, of course.
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EPT
