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This blog was inspired by this post, which I found while browsing the BW forums:
On May 21 2011 08:02 Game wrote:I think it's a really bad idea. This sounds like typical laziness. Scrolling a calender page is now too advanced for the highest skilled RTS to ever hit the shelves users? Crazy. Also, BW doesn't provide as many views as SC2, so other than no AoV ISL news, I completely understand why Teamliquid would have no interest in making news of BW events. Sure their main user base spawns from BroodWars originally and surely there is some loyalty that all users feel is owed + Show Spoiler +, but Teamliquid is a business, a real certified business now. Stop thinking about your TL roots and get with the reality of the website. If anything, your feelings of being owed something results from the fact that Teamliquid was nice enough to ever create and maintain such a great website over the years. For anyone who is loyal to BW, you can search the ONE DEDICATED section Teamliquid has for BroodWar tournaments. "BW Tourneys" anyone?
While I won't comment on the rest of the content of the post, one thing bothers me alot. He calls TeamLiquid a "business." Originally, TeamLiquid was only a fansite, with no real purpose other than to entertain fans of BW. It was made by the fans, for the fans. However, on the other hand, a business is a firm that has its own self-interest mainly at hand. Rationally, a business's primary purpose is to expand and serve itself.
In many ways, you can see the ways TL has transformed from a fansite into more of a business. The "professionalization" of many aspects of the site (e.g. Manifesto7 professionalizing The Ten Commandments that mensrea originally wrote), the NY office (with "jobs"), and the removal of NSFW for sponsorship purposes are all good examples. I don't want to rush to hasty conclusions. TL is still nothing like a formal firm, since it obviously doesn't make profit. But in the end, I am curious whether TeamLiquid is more fansite or business nowadays.
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It's a community before any form of business. This place is barely if not any kind of profit organization.
I think you're having fears of something that isn't there. Its goals are still the same, just sustained and established a lot better.
It's jobs are two to three people working to keep the site in order and working and its "offices" is a very lovely house :3
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I don't know what exactly makes you an expert on teamliquid since according to your profile you joined in 2007. I'm pretty sure it was not created as a "fansite for the fans" but was created as a clan website for the clan of team Liquid. Also the TL Ten Commandments and removal of NSFW content has been around for nearly as long as TL itself and has nothing to do with TL transforming.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Teamliquid has, and from my knowledge, will always be a fansite first and foremost. The creation of the new domain TeamLiquidPro is an example of this where a potential clash of interests with TL's role as a community hub lead to the divestment of the Liquid Team news to the new website.
TL has become an incredibly large website since it first started (I believe it's up to a several million unique views per month now?). It also hosts a lot of events (such as the TSL) and stores a lot of information not just pertaining to the forum text (such as replays, VoDs, Torrents, etc.). All of this requires a lot of administration, hardware, etc. which has to be paid for. That's why there are ads, sponsors, etc.
But TL is not a business, and I doubt it would be a business. But even if it were to become one, the Mods and Admins in charge are always doing this for the community and us.
If you have never read this thread before, I fully recommend you do so. It's very enlightening as to how TL operate behind the scenes.
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Notice how all that TeamLiquid does that involves money is simply for the enhancement of the quality of the StarCraft experience.
We love the game.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 21 2011 09:57 BlackJack wrote:
removal of NSFW content has been around for nearly as long as TL itself and has nothing to do with TL transforming.
We're more proactive about it with the addition of AdSense but I don't think anyone really noticed when it happened and I think it's just to keep the servers on. I think everything else is still pretty community focused. Community events, contribution, production. Of course, I'm not related in any way to that side of things but I have faith in Naz and company to remain true to the header. Pro Gaming News, Community, Team.
As for the BW stuff, I think it's like anything on TL- if you do something good, it'll get noticed. It saddens me also that there's less BW coverage, but I don't think it's because we're trying to sell SC2 to people.
[01:14:10] [+Milkis] finding BW writers
[01:14:15] [+Milkis] is getting more and more difficult
[01:15:10] [+Milkis] =(
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Funny that you should quote that and make it a blog. I was about to write and correct the guy, but in the end I didn't bother. He obviously had some kind of faulty impression that Teamliquid was a business, when in fact any income is simply a means to the end of the Starcraft community. If the people behind Teamliquid lost interest in Starcraft and this community, they wouldn't keep running the site. Don't be confused simply because they are doing things to professionalize their activities (surely, the success of the first TSL made them realize the potential of this).
And therefore, yes, they people behind Teamliquid probably would profer and amicable, tight-knit community, with great synergy and opinion exchange instead of a big one where that is full of meaningless nonsense (which was the point addressed in the comment that Try is quoting). However, I'm sure they believe that the community can become just as big and good despite the great influx of new members, simply adding to the diversity and depth 
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On May 21 2011 09:57 BlackJack wrote:
I don't know what exactly makes you an expert on teamliquid since according to your profile you joined in 2007. I'm pretty sure it was not created as a "fansite for the fans" but was created as a clan website for the clan of team Liquid. Also the TL Ten Commandments and removal of NSFW content has been around for nearly as long as TL itself and has nothing to do with TL transforming.
While I haven't been there since it all started, I have been lurking since beginning of '06 so I have been with the site for awhile. Also, I never claimed to be an expert on teamliquid, but it became pretty clear that the primary purpose of TeamLiquid not too long after it was created was to cater to BW fans. Perhaps I used the wrong expression, but I doubt anyone would argue that the primary purpose of TL for the majority of its existence was to be the clansite for the Liquid Team. TL Ten Commandments were originally written by mensrea and then "professionalized" by Manifesto, which was what I was trying to point out.
Also, did I offend you in some way, or is there some reason you responded in such a negative tone?
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Thanks for the responses. I agree with MoonBear and Asjo, TL still puts community first, and I trust the TL mods to make the right decisions.
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tl incorporated, in the business of feeding huk since '10!
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The Ten Commandments are much older than Teamliquid as commercial organization.
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On May 21 2011 11:50 hypercube wrote:
The Ten Commandments are much older than Teamliquid as commercial organization.
To clarify, I meant Manifesto7 editing mensrea's version of the Ten Commandments. Which were hilarious, but much more vulgar than the current version.
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TL is far from a business (even if it is, we don't suffer the consequences of TL being a business)
Or if it is a business, it has the ethic of a non profit organisation. That's why TL is awesome.
Give TL to EG, or whatever other esport-organisation, and you will understand what is a business and the consequences it has on the users.
Too bad my english vocabulary is limited, I could write more about it but it won't make sense...
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TL is not a business, because its not making an actual money profit. The fact that TL now has offices doesnt mean its a business, it just means its waaaay more organized. It just means the staff of TL care so much about this site and the people they are representing. Do you really want to tell people you spend most of your time on a site with mostly NSFW stuff around it, because the way SC2 is exploding, tons and tons of more people will eventually find out about this site, so it has to be as top-notch as possible (like more than it already is). You might consider it a busines cuz of the team now but still this site is still a fansite at its core. Without that fundamental TL wouldnt be as lively as it is now.
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On May 21 2011 12:33 Sharp-eYe wrote:
TL is not a business, because its not making an actual money profit.
How can you be confident about this statement without any actual information? I'm actually guessing that the reality is the other way around.
It's just that despite making money, TL (probably) won't compromise its core values nonetheless.
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On May 21 2011 12:50 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 12:33 Sharp-eYe wrote:
TL is not a business, because its not making an actual money profit. How can you be confident about this statement without any actual information? I'm actually guessing that the reality is the other way around. It's just that despite making money, TL (probably) won't compromise its core values nonetheless.
All money go towards sustaining the site, paying the few employees they have, financing the team and future projects.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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EPT
