EPTThe next best thing is make a serious proposal that discusses the NASL's limitations, and more importantly, a way to fix them.
NASL and Teams: What's the Deal? - Page 18
| Blogs > Liquid`Tyler |
|
Driz87
34 Posts
The next best thing is make a serious proposal that discusses the NASL's limitations, and more importantly, a way to fix them. | ||
|
BlueFlames
Germany1756 Posts
On February 25 2011 02:37 floor exercise wrote: There's a less ambiguous hierarchy of command for GSL. At least I doubt on some Korean forum there's 3 guys contradicting each other on how the tournament operates, for example. From the limited amount of stuff we've heard from Russ I would imagine he relies greatly on Incontrol's input, as well as Xeris and whoever else. But we can all agree that a) Inc is very opinionated and b) he has quite a bit of say in how things go Wow you really dont stop this bs do you? As far as i know Xeris calls the shots. But since i dont know anything that goes on in the background i cant even comment on that. I could be wrong. But sure they guys who decided to start the first huge league in north america are going to cheat their main caster into the final. Why should they care about their reputation. Noone would even notice right? Are you kidding me or are you really that ignorant? You just pull shit out of your ass and present it as facts. If your arguments are based on that than i dont even know how to answer this. Maybe ill pull something out of my ass too. Something that is so ridiculous that every sane person should know its bs. How about i start insulting Tyler by saying that he just makes such a big fuss about this because he is afraid he might not get the 5th spot. Since Haypro and him have the least to show for themselves in SC2 one of them could be eliminated. I bet Tyler is afraid and so he starts this discussion. I have found my perfect ignorant conspiracy theory. Do you realise what i just did? I made shit up ... thats right. Do you call this discussing? I am not just talking about you. There are enough people in this thread that insulted everyone that is involved in this league that i dont even wonder that neither xeris nor incontrol are willing to discuss this thing any further. Maybe they decided to do this non-publicly which would mean this thread was a success. Maybe it was the opposite and they will stop listening to discussions about this topic any further, because people will just insult them with the most ridiculous bs a person could come up with. | ||
|
Hammurabio
152 Posts
On February 25 2011 05:24 BlueFlames wrote: Wow you really dont stop this bs do you? As far as i know Xeris calls the shots. But since i dont know anything that goes on in the background i cant even comment on that. I could be wrong. Since you don't know anything, and we don't know anything, the question was asked. I think the question is perfectly valid and deserves and answer. iNcontrol is the public face of NASL (his words), not just a caster on a secondary foreign language stream. iNcontrol has been part of the decision making process so far. NASL needs to bend over backwards to ensure there isn't any hint of favoritism towards their own employees. It will be a deathblow to this esport if sponsors fear that NASL is giving their own employees any kind of advantage. Will NASL management/employees be allowed to compete in their own tournament? How will NASL ensure there is no conflict of interests? | ||
|
Poocs
94 Posts
On February 24 2011 07:04 Motion wrote: Only five players per Team is absolutely okay, plz don't make a cow! - Fair for everyone - Diversity in the way of play-styles, after 1-2 years a Powerhouse will reach certain styles... - Interesting Player Transfers, cause a Clan could only hold 5 Starplayers. ( At least interesting for the Viewers ) - But the major point is: Less Team tactics I don't understand any of these points - Fair for the 6th best player on a team who is better than the five players on the other team? - right, ..... - what? I just wanna see the best players in the world - has this actually been a problem anywhere? And why would it be a problem? With prizes like what NASL is giving, why not try to make it the biggest tournament in the world? Why make it just a minors league to GSL? | ||
|
elroy
United States51 Posts
I believe that there is a much easier way to keep teams and players in general and it has already been put in place by the NASL: Fines! If any individual is found in anyway to be colluding or helping teamates/friends advance by throwing a match fine them and maybe even ban them from the next event. This makes it much more straight forward and easier to follow! As many people have said before (yes I actually read the 18 previous pages) this is an individual league. Treat every player the same and as individuals. When the NASL starts their team league, which I am sure will follow, then they can start worrying about teams. | ||
|
yoshi_yoshi
United States440 Posts
One more point is that there is already a possibility of more than 5 players from a team being in season 2. If a team has 5 players that do well enough in season 1 to not be relegated, then a 6th member can qualify for season 2 through the open tournament (and the other unannounced means). In this scenario, I can't believe that they would kick one of the original 5 out, or refuse the 6th member who did well in the open. So, if it is possible for 6 members of a team to be in the league for season 2, why is there a restriction in season 1? | ||
|
Backpack
United States1776 Posts
| ||
|
adeezy
United States1428 Posts
| ||
|
SleepTech
United States222 Posts
Keep the "fine" and rules in place and you have a HUGE opportunity for good games. | ||
|
Drium
United States888 Posts
In the Q&A thread Xeris said there definition of a team is 1 or more players under a single banner that have a website (because WhiteRa has one) and the ability to pay to fly players to the ro16. I have enough money in my bank account for a plane ticket to LA, so I could put a tag in front of my name and make a website and be eligible under their definition. The definition was obviously tailored specifically so they could include both WhiteRa and Root. If they said you had to have more than 1 player, WhiteRa would be ineligible. If they said you have to be sponsored, every Root player would be ineligible. The result of bending their definition like this is that it functionally excludes no one. If I was good enough to be in the NASL but without a team, the only thing this rule would do is force me to jump through some stupid hoops. | ||
|
JustAnotherKnave
United States67 Posts
Why do all NCAA teams abide by a universal maximum on scholarships per team? In NCAA track&field and swimming, why is there a maximum number of allowable athletes that any university can send to the national championships? ITS JUST NOT FAIR WHEN MORE THAN THE MAX HAVE QUALIFIED TO GO!!! i quit sports cuz its just toooo tough in the places i don't like it! QQ User was warned for this post | ||
|
Drium
United States888 Posts
On February 25 2011 17:06 JustAnotherKnave wrote: Why do NBA teams have salary caps? If you have all the money in the world, why can't a team spend it on all the best players? WHY WHY WHY? Why do all NCAA teams abide by a universal maximum on scholarships per team? In NCAA track&field and swimming, why is there a maximum number of allowable athletes that any university can send to the national championships? ITS JUST NOT FAIR WHEN MORE THAN THE MAX HAVE QUALIFIED TO GO!!! i quit sports cuz its just toooo tough in the places i don't like it! QQ Those things are competitions between teams/universities and starcraft tournaments are competitions between individuals. | ||
|
JustAnotherKnave
United States67 Posts
| ||
|
JustAnotherKnave
United States67 Posts
| ||
|
Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
The rules is personally biased towards someones likings because it's not intuitive and it brings my thoughts to the problems with KESPA. The community does not want benched players from our favorite teams and we don't want our favorite solo players to join crappy ones | ||
|
Piledriver
United States1697 Posts
On February 24 2011 06:43 Torte de Lini wrote: I'll agree that the idea of someone needs to be on a team in order to compete is silly. It's counter-productive for people who want to get into the professional-scene and it kind of portrays NASL as an elite league moreso than a convenient one for many North-American players. With the 250$ refundable tax, I agree that the need of being on a team is only showing little faith in the willingness of lone aspiring players. Am I making sense here or what? I think the 5 people invited is fine. My comparison here is going to be nit-picked and wrong and to be honest, I'm inviting you to do so. But I feel it's not different than having some players sit on the bench in a baseball match. It also creates more strategy for the team managers: we just recruited this new players, he's not very well-known and I'm confident in his ability to win, I'm going to send him in the NASL with two other aggressive Terrans and a conservative Protoss. My from your standpoint, it may seem unfair, but I think there are a lot of what ifs in there and to be honest, do the pros way out the cons or vice-versa? The baseball match analogy is a horrible one, because a player being on the bench for one match does not mean he will be benched for the entire season. Its also similar to the Shinhan proleague where the player lineup is different for each match. Players do not mind being benched for individual matches. But they will be disappointed when they are bunched for an entire season. | ||
|
emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
And, the fact you HAVE to be on a team means someone like WhiteRa, definately amongst the top players outside Korea, can't compete because he has a private sponsor. How is that fair? If WhiteRa wanted to be on a team, he could be, it seems thats not the case and yet if he wants to compete in NASL he must find a team and take on a contract that he might not like or want, just to compete...... thats even worse. If a player is good enough, has the $250 and the ability to attend the live finals, then thats all that should matter. I feel bad for whomever the 6th TL player is, I feel bad for TL to have to make that decision, I feel bad for WhiteRa who isn't allowed to compete because of some arbitrary rule. WhiteRa has a personal sponsor, which means he is waaaay more accountable to them than Tyler is to TLAF for instance. Tyler could get away with a few mistakes because he is on a team, its not just him that represents TLAF, WhiteRa has no such luxury. If WhiteRa didn't turn up or was late all the time, he would have lost his sponson by now. He doesn't do that, he is a great ambassador for SC2, and he is left out in the cold by the biggest tourney outside of Korea simply because he isn't one of the cool kids on a real team. I guess WhiteRa's Team (yes one exists, its a community thing) will have to actually have to sign whitera so he can say he's on a team. | ||
|
br0fivE
Canada349 Posts
But majority of the tournaments have the same people in it Theres nothing wrong with that, but how is Esports suppose to grow when its just the same ppl competiting/being invited. It gives "lesser" named people barely a chance to get there name out there TSL3 has been great @ getting more people into the qualifiers, earning points etc etc. There are so many lesser names winning TSL qualifiers because the tourny is set up perfectly. It opens up esports to everyone, instead of only "pro's". GSL, anyone could of went to korea to try-out. Where as NASL is just PRO teams and thats all. I believe theres more talent out there but are discouraged by the lack of opportunities. I know theres ton of small prize money tournys, but when something like this (nasl) comes out its huge, but at the same time limiting Esports exposure. my rant | ||
|
KaraMaraT
Turkey1 Post
allowing only 5 players a team.why?i dont understand this decision. why not change the format of nasl? | ||
|
Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
It's difficult to find a major sport that has team caps due to the fact that the structure of SC2 is different. In some sports individuals compete and in others teams, there are very few in which teams support individuals. I can think of two, and these deserve to be analyzed. Let me start it off. Formula 1 has teams like Ferrari supporting individuals such as Alonso. The individuals would have no chance whatsoever alone (which is trivially true in NASL due to the team constraint) and the league maintains a two person cap per team. I think the reason for this is the strong collusion between teammates but perhaps someone here knows more about the rationale behind that rule. The second "sport" I know that imposes this is debating. Most debate tournaments have a "team cap" for "clubs" or "universities" on registration. This is imposed because debating is to a large extent educational (one learns more from debating with different people) and, also, the people funding like to see diversity because companies like different people to learn about their products and governments and NGO's want multiple strata of society to benefit from their support. Collusion does not play a part, but one last fear is that if strong clubs dominate, then smaller teams will not be born. And when one wishes to introduce people to an activity (and let's be honest, the only people following debating are debaters themselves) then one needs to support a large number of communities. The quality might be damaged (we all want to hear Oxford Union debaters, very few wish to hear Kiev (except for me)) but there is a positive effect on the community and sustainability of the activity. I think TeamLiquid might need to bite the bullet and accept that their team will suffer and that the quality of games might be lower, but this will in fact be good for the SC2/esports community. | ||
| ||
