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United States10087 Posts
Hey TL!
I was going through my previous blogs and saw how much of a great discussion I received from my "Corsair or Phoenix?" blog. I'm going to be creating more types of these, now that SC2 has pretty much gotten to the place where everyone knows what build order to go. So today will be about the defiler... or the infestor. Enjoy!
First, the Defiler.
Cost: 50 minerals 150 gas
HP: 80
Energy: 50/200 or 62.5/250 + upgrade
Abilities...
1. Consume: Zero energy, gains 50 energy, no matter what unit. This is how the defilers get energy quickly, unlike how long the other spellcasters of the game get energy. Very quick to regen more energy for Dark Swarm or Plague.
2. Dark Swarm: 100 energy. No ranged damage is taken, but splash is (tanks, archons). However, spells like storm and maelstrom are still able to function. Useful to push back an army with mainly ranged units.
3. Plague: 150 energy. Reduces the enemy units by 4 hp/second until a maximum of 300 hp lost is taken (or 75 seconds of plague time).
vT: The defilers are one of the most popular units to get since only the tank's splash and firebats are able to do any damage to units under dark swarm. also, spider mines can also deal some damage. Since the main focus of TvZ is marine/medic, marines can't do damage to the swarmed units, and they tend to clump up, causing them to be big plague targets, along with the occasional vessel clump. Needless to say, defilers are the most popular among TvZ.
vP: The defilers tend to be used only later in the game than in TvZ where they are brought out ASAP. Normally, plague is used considering that a protoss ball heavily uses zealots and archons, though the dark swarm is used so dragoons can't do any damage. however, storm and reavers still rip through swarmed units, so plague is mainly used.
vZ: In ZvZ, defilers are hardly ever seen (unless you have by.great playing xD GREAT HWAITING!!! BEAT HYDRA!!!) anyways, when they are used, they are mainly used to hit a big plague on huge clumps of muta so they melt to a smaller muta grouping.
Now, the Infestor.
Cost: 100 minerals 150 gas
HP: 90
Energy: 50/200 or 75/200 + upgrade
Abilities...
1. Fungal Growth: 75 energy. Fungal growth does damage to a cluster of units while causing them to be immobilized. However, the units can still attack. Fungal growth has the ability to kill off an weakened units, thus useful for sniping injured units like marines or zealots.
2. Neural Parasite: 100 energy. This spell can used used over a time period of 15 seconds by controlling the enemy. This spell is great against important units such as collosi, immortals, or spellcasters.
3. Spawn Infested Terran: 25 energy. Infested Terran are slow moving, however they have a time span of 30 seconds and have 50 hp. These are great if your army has no anti-air (ultra/ling or roach/ling) and there are pesky air units above.
vT: Neural Parasite is mainly used on Thors, BCs or tanks. This is so that these high power units are able to do some damage to the opponent, causing the battle to swing in the Zerg's favor. Fungal Growth and baneling is a great combo against large amounts of marines. you fungal the marines, so while they are frozen, send in your banelings. note however, the marines can still shoot, so don't just send in 1 or 2. Infested terrans are great for using them in solo suicide missions (how ironic xD) when tanks are sieged near the army. the tanks will do splash to the units and possibly even kill some.
vP: Neural Parasite is used against the collosi or the high templar. you can use the high templar to storm the opponent while having collosi do heavy splash damage to weak zealots. Fungal growth is mainly used for landing them on the weak zealots, so stalkers may get trapped behind them, though they can always blink.
vZ: You really never get into infestors in ZvZ, though you can use the Fungal growth on zerglings and banelings. Mutas are also good targets as they are usually clumped. However, there are no real units for Neural Parasite... since the ultras can't be controlled.
So the big question, which do you think is better and why? Again, there will be many "Which do you like better? The apple or the orange?" questions, however I'd like people to please try and avoid those.
For me personally, I prefer the defiler. First off, consume was just imba, although I loved the game where this zerg player consumed like 9 ultras... forget the game. second off, the dark swarm ability is amazing. no ranged units??? good-bye Terran. and finally, plague was awesome. mass plagued vessels vs one muta? LOL. The infestor DOES have the mind control... its just not the same from the DA from BW.
Thanks, and please post your response!
 
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Pretty sure the Defiler would make Zerg ridiculous in SC2. Even without lurkers, the high DPS hydras would make great use of Dark Swarm. Upside is it'd make for delicious templar metagame in PvZ =P
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Really, the major difference between the two is consume. I personally think that the infestor's inability to regen energy quickly or be at all useful when it doesn't have energy is what makes it useless, imo. There isn't a single other caster in the game that has zero utility when out of energy.
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Defiler seems like the better spell caster. Consume + Dark Swarm + Plague are just too good.
:D
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plague would be so sick in sc2 lol
dark swarm would be good but not as crazy cuz no lunkerz
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United States10087 Posts
On February 19 2011 11:22 travis wrote:
plague would be so sick in sc2 lol
dark swarm would be good but not as crazy cuz no lunkerz
wat about dark swarm roll with slowdras??? xD yes, plague instead of fungal would be NICE.
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Defilers with SC2 bunching and smartcast would break the game brutally.
just run in with 3 defilers and you could plague their entire army 100% of the time=gg
btw
On February 19 2011 11:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
vZ: You really never get into infestors in ZvZ, though you can use the Fungal growth on zerglings and banelings. Mutas are also good targets as they are usually clumped. However, there are no real units for Neural Parasite... since the ultras can't be controlled.
What? Have you watched any ZvZ recently? Infestors are pretty much guaranteed once the game gets past ling/bling and into massroach.
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United States10087 Posts
oh really??? my most hated mu in all of starcraft is ZvZ, so whenever i see a commentary, im like, screw this, back to huk or someone. ill start watching then xD
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
you would have to be mad to choose an infestor over a defiler, mainly because one has infinite mana, can create invincibility farts and devastating plagues setting every unit's hp close to 1
while the other freezes units while doing slow damage, moves underground, summons infested terrans and MCs stuff for half it's mana and limited range
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10387 Posts
btw, Defilers are also used to Swarm vs mass Archons to reduce their damage to only splash
and in vZ they make Lurkers imba
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Not really a fair comparison, infestor is the sc1 queen equivalent, not defiler.
If not the defiler, I hope some high tier caster with consume gets added to sc2 in one of the expansions. Love that concept so much for a zerg.
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Obviously the defiler, it made ZvT. It was that perfect miracle unit that made you feel safe and warm for a single moment before terran simultaneously dropped your main and third. I simply can't believe someone could play a ZvT in bw and ever choose another spell caster over the defiler
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every late game spellcaster BW unit shits on SC2's equivalent (well maybe not MS)
so i go with defiler. watching defiler defense/pushes/control vs MnM/tank/vessel balls are the best
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Defiler, no contest. Plague and Dark Swarm would dominate absolutely everything in the game right now.
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The defiler was and is infinitely better than the infestor. Dark Swarm was fucking retardedly good.
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Your lack of knowledge of the infestor in all the matchups is pretty sad.. Aside from that defilers spells were infinitely more useful. The infestor is just a dumb downed version of the defiler to make smart-casting less op. Defiler is obviously better though.
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10387 Posts
On February 19 2011 14:58 sung_moon wrote:
every late game spellcaster BW unit shits on SC2's equivalent (well maybe not MS)
so i go with defiler. watching defiler defense/pushes/control vs MnM/tank/vessel balls are the best
I would still choose Arbiters over MS anyday because they aren't slow as sin and you can actually build more than one of them
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On February 19 2011 12:55 mucker wrote:
Not really a fair comparison, infestor is the sc1 queen equivalent, not defiler.
If not the defiler, I hope some high tier caster with consume gets added to sc2 in one of the expansions. Love that concept so much for a zerg.
And you would still choose the defiler over both a queen and an infestor....lol
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Canada8029 Posts
Defilers, no contest. Dark swarm is, imo, the most imbalanced spell in BW. It literally has the ability to stop entire terran armies. Coupled with consume, the defiler is basically capable of pushing all the way across the map and killing everything. Plague is just the non-nerfed version of fungal growth.
There are some very good reasons why vessel count is so important in lategame TvZ, and keeping the defiler population under control is one of them.
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Defilers are a completely game changing unit in ZvZ. The craziness that is hive ZvZ would be impossible without them
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Defiler is one of the best units in Starcraft history, infestor PALES in comparison.
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It's really hard to choose a spellcaster with limited energy over a spellcaster with infinite energy.
Defilers are probably the most imba unit in a game full of imba units.
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PLAGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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^ Awesome Triple post
If anyone says infestor over defiler they must be absolutely downright retarded. There is simply no better zerg spellcaster, invincibility cloud, PLAYGU which simply imba thanks to the koreans and consume for unlimited energy.
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Oh come on. Noone in their right mind would think the infestor beats the defiler in any way. Its like kerrigan decided "hmm...well these defilers here singlehandedly won me battles against terran...but nah screw that im gonna make em extinct and breed a species of weak sissy little pukey green thingies"
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What a ridiculous question. Defiler would win without even without consume, but give the thing infinite energy = insanely powerful unit.
Infestor doesn't even compare.
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Defiler hands down. Plague would just compliment everything especially banelings. Swarm + banes would probably be cheaper than BW lurker+swarm, not to mention swarm is some of the greatest AA defense ever. Consume is ridiculously good and there is no irradiate anymore T would have to go EMP making their army even weaker.
Infestor pretty much only has burrow movement for harass and it's only really useful spell is fungal.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wflan.jpg)
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Defiler is so much better than the Infestor.
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Norway28580 Posts
even though infestors have the best spell in sc2, defilers are way, way better. zerg needed them in bw - but consume+swarm+lurker was completely broken if you look at it independently.
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United States10087 Posts
On February 19 2011 18:15 SpoR wrote:Defiler hands down. Plague would just compliment everything especially banelings. Swarm + banes would probably be cheaper than BW lurker+swarm, not to mention swarm is some of the greatest AA defense ever. Consume is ridiculously good and there is no irradiate anymore T would have to go EMP making their army even weaker. Infestor pretty much only has burrow movement for harass and it's only really useful spell is fungal.
LOL!!!!
it seems that the winner is defiler. THANK FOR THE FEEDBACK!
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EPT
