|
Dear Blizzard,
I first heard of you in 1998, when I was still 7 years old. My friend's dad was playing the recently released game, Starcraft: Broodwar on his PC while we watched from over his shoulder. The game was the coolest thing I had ever seen. My dad owned a mac, and there weren't very many games available for mac at the time. But Starcraft was. And damn, was it cool. I would turn down the speakers at night while my parents slept and play on the computer in their room, because it was the only computer in the house. The lights had to stay off, so I learned how to type to chat with the other players in game because I couldn't see the keys. If I didn't get in trouble when dialing up the internet, I knew I was free.
Over the years, my family got DSL and newer computers. There were new games and I played some of them. But Starcraft was always there. In the 3rd grade, my parents were going through some rocky parts of their marriage; shit that most couples would normally get a divorce over. While they were doing their thing, I could escape into the world of Starcraft. Eventually, things sorted themselves out, amazingly enough. We moved away and into the city where I now live, sometime in 4th grade.
It was late 2002 and I was 12; my 4th grade teacher in the new school was young, attractive, and very engaging in the classroom. I still played constantly, though. There were more impressive UMS games and people were figuring out some amazing things you could do with the units. Eventually, I would stop playing around 2006, when in the 8th grade, I met some cute girls.
Those cute girls turned out to be emotional, insane, and almost definitely succubi. But that is another story. I rediscovered Starcraft mid-2008 and found an entirely new beast in front of me. Between iCCup and the Korean pro-gaming scene, Starcraft had changed drastically. There were paid professionals who played, and legions of gamers wanting to be just like them. I watched GOMtv's season 3, and absolutely loved it. Flash was this rising monster of a player, but still couldn't beat Jaedong no matter what he tried. The fan designed map pool was brilliant. It had its flaws, but they were at least trying. There was a semblance of balance, and I'd honestly say that the current map pool is actually 99% there.
During the time between 1998 and 2008, you had several new Warcraft games out; and between Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft, had royally pissed fans off. Warcraft 3 was imbalanced to the point that as far as the fans were concerned you threw the game out the window and said, "Fuck it, I'm tired of trying to make this work." With WoW, you did the reverse and so over balanced the game, there were scores of comments claiming that picking a race and class were purely implemented for aesthetics- they all played more or less the same.
The question never was IF Starcraft would have a sequel, it was when. And you took your sweet time about it. Between playing Starcraft and learning new rumors about Starcraft 2, I was off at the local community college. In addition to homework, every day I would come home, play on iCCup, and watch the pro Korean leagues when I could find a stream. The community was on edge about Starcraft 2. What would happen? After the horrors of Warcraft 3 and the over balancing of WoW, a lot of the community didn't have much faith in your latest project.
What we hoped in was perfection, which was a high bar to reach. Of any company that could do it though, most would have said that you were our best bet. I was hoping for something spectacular that could follow in its predecessor's footsteps. You had reached some magic formula with Broodwar, and after patch 1.05 (less than 2 of Broodwar's release) the game reached a balance that is still played today. With so many years to develop Starcraft 2, we could only hope that you could remember that formula and apply it to the game.
The thing that really got the community's panties in a bunch was that you decided to take over the professional community. After seeing what KeSPA did to Starcraft, there were those in favor of this decision. You had a history of supporting long outdating games even after they stopped making you real profit. This was countered with the bullshit pulled in Warcraft 3. Without an evolving map pool in addition to the horrible balancing act in the game, others didn't have much faith in you. Besides this elephant of a problem, there were other complaints on how you were intending to run things. The removal of LAN play was a bitch move, but we would live.
Over the summer before the release in July, I managed to scrape up enough money for the game before going back to class. I played in the beta, and had hoped that the obvious balance issues were fixed. The first thing I did when unwrapping my newly arrived game was play the campaign through. I wasn't impressed. It was horrible. With a history of fantastic campaigns, dating all the way back to Warcraft 2, Wings of Liberty was like being served shit on a silver platter while expecting something gourmet. After beating the campaign inside of a couple days and being thoroughly disappointed, I decided to try my luck on your new battle.net.
None of my friends in real life played Starcraft anymore, and most of the people I played regularly were now limited to the European and Asian servers. So, I was left with playing with some randomly matched people who I had no history with, and no reason to abide by a sense of honor. The game wasn't even remotely balanced beyond the absolute basics. At least everybody had fighting units and workers, right? I gave it a chance, though. I had to- this was a game I'd been waiting, literally, the majority of my life to be released. What I found was exactly what I knew I was going to find, though.
I placed into Diamond league, hoping for some genuinely good games, and found the exact opposite. It was filled with cheesy bullshit. My race of choice since I first played, Zerg, was so uncomfortably balanced that I kept trying to switch to Protoss with little success- I just couldn't think like a toss. So I stopped playing. After the first Starcraft 2 GOMtv series, I stopped watching the games. The battle.net website was filled with propaganda to calm the masses, but the b.net forums were a place of garbage and noobs ranting about how void rays and marines were underpowered and that broodlords were overpowered.
My forum of choice, Teamliquid, filled with whiney little brats getting into the game and as much as I hate to admit it, I knew I was turning into one of them. I had Zerg tears, and resisted the urge countless times to bitch about how much the game infuriated me. Before quitting, I tried to GG every game; but occasionally I couldn't do anything besides 'command+q' (quit, for non-mac users). My wins were hollow, rarely would I play a truly good game.
This brings us to today; its been almost exactly 7 months since the original release. I've read that you released a new patch, but that still, nobody is happy. And I'd like to say, thanks for the fantastic games, and for helping me through my parents' drama when I was just a little kid. Thanks for the entertainment, and for a sport that I could actually watch and get excited about. Please, fix your mistake though. I had high standards for Starcraft 2, but was eager to forgive it for any shortcomings it might have had- those could be patched. It doesn't look like you genuinely care. And if you don't care about something I valued so highly, I don't want anything to do with such total garbage.
Starcraft 2 isn't fun. Sure, its competitive. But so was Command and Conquer, and look at where they are. The community is trash. I can't even play my friends from around the world without spending another 100 dollars on two more copies of the game. When Heart of the Swarm is released, I'll read reviews of the game and check in on the community once again hoping for a spark of the glory that Starcraft once had. Until then, though, peace.
 
|
On January 27 2011 16:28 flyinfart wrote:
This brings us to today; its been almost exactly 7 months since the original release.
Actually, it's 6 months.
But damn, time flies huh?
I can still vividly remember few days prior to release of the game when the entire gaming world was counting down like it was new year or something.
Already half a year...
|
|
|
oh my god waiting the day before was so killer
thats an awesome summary of why were disappointed by sc2
|
How much into WoW were you, cause the stuff they did in SC2 pales in comparison to everything they've done to post TBC WoW heh (minus the KeSPA lawsuit but that isn't really game design related so ya).
Pretty much stuck to RT and AT with friends, read one too many horror stories in the SC2 Strat section to try Solo ladder, did friendlies with Diamond/Platinum friends though.
|
your post was very emotional and touching, thanks for sharing and id like to say that you're not alone in the way you feel. mb one day everything will be alright.
|
You know, you've got a better chance of reaching blizzard if you post this on THEIR website.
Just sayin'.
|
Great post, I totally mirror your sentiments on a lot of points, especially the anticipation right before SC2 came out and the hugely disappointing campaign. I totally remember sneaking into my basement at night just to fire up that 56k to play some stealth SC on the family computer ^^
My only difference was that I actually enjoyed War3 / DoTA and was absolutely consumed by D2. Man, lots of memories...
|
then here is what i don't understand, if you all love bw so much, why don't you go back to bw and play it again, i love bw and would love to see the faces and the names return. if you are so disappointed in sc2, don't let it grow, let it fade away into the black hole of gaming
|
Orly? Well Id much rather believe THIS GUY in that SC2 vanilla>>SC1 vanilla.
http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/14244-gg08-sven-we-probably-didn-t-party-as-hard-as-we-thought-we-did
Also I thought the campaign was FANTASTIC! Seriously, guys, SC2 gets GOTY, blasts open the e-sports scene, gets 10/10 for its single-player missions from almost every game site, has the most intensely updated balance and patch releases and there are still a few of you like OP, who seem disappointed!?
Maybe you were hoping for it to be better than a 13 year old game at release but, I just think youre a bit overeager to QQ all over it.
|
Aww. I feel the sameish.
I'm not dissapointed completely with the game, and I think there is still hope. And to say it isn't fun just isn't true as far as I'm considered.
SC2 also seems to be producing more and more exciting games as time passes.
I think its foolish to expect or evne hope for true balance before the game is complete. SC1 wasn't balanced until BW came out, and I expect SC2 won't be balanced until a while after LotV comes out.
Until then, I'm thinking we just have to hold on tight and hope it stays exciting.
Also, I really hope that when expansions come out, Blizzard isn't afraid to totally rework shit. Some units just do not belong in this game and need to be removed or completely reworked from the ground up.
edit: lol @ the poster above me. Legit the first person I've ever seen someone give the SC2 single player a good review. Although to be fair I didn't read any gamesite reviews. Still, it was trash. Cheesy as balls with soooo little coolfactor.
|
Lol there is a quote in there that says "You have to want to win more than you hate to lose" In almost every quotes I heard from a successful athlete, I hear the opposite 'You have to hate losing more than you like winning"
|
My letter to blizzard
Dear Blizzard,
Give us some realistic times of when you say games come out
Sincerely,
Your common everyday PC gamer
PS. nice letter OP
|
I agree. The campaign was terrible. It bored me to shits. The only thing that kept me going was to know what happens next.
|
Dear flyinfart,
Thanks for your money, we spent it on creating the ultimate chat channel; a secret cow channel that ends all your sentences with ... mooo!
and bitches.
We hope you'll just buy Warcraft 4, it'll be awesome and balanced ... honest. Also it will have Facebook integration.
Follow us on Twitter!
Yours trolly,
Bobby Kotick
|
On January 27 2011 17:23 Firereaver wrote:Orly? Well Id much rather believe THIS GUY in that SC2 vanilla>>SC1 vanilla. http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/14244-gg08-sven-we-probably-didn-t-party-as-hard-as-we-thought-we-did Also I thought the campaign was FANTASTIC! Seriously, guys, SC2 gets GOTY, blasts open the e-sports scene, gets 10/10 for its single-player missions from almost every game site, has the most intensely updated balance and patch releases and there are still a few of you like OP, who seem disappointed!? Maybe you were hoping for it to be better than a 13 year old game at release but, I just think youre a bit overeager to QQ all over it.
Blasts open the E-sports scene?
Really? ...Where?
New game, tons of tournaments, kinda reminds me of Halo 3. Seriously though it hasn't made any great strides into the esports scene.
It's a good game and all but let's not over state the facts here.
|
On January 27 2011 17:23 Firereaver wrote:Orly? Well Id much rather believe THIS GUY in that SC2 vanilla>>SC1 vanilla. http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/14244-gg08-sven-we-probably-didn-t-party-as-hard-as-we-thought-we-did Also I thought the campaign was FANTASTIC! Seriously, guys, SC2 gets GOTY, blasts open the e-sports scene, gets 10/10 for its single-player missions from almost every game site, has the most intensely updated balance and patch releases and there are still a few of you like OP, who seem disappointed!? Maybe you were hoping for it to be better than a 13 year old game at release but, I just think youre a bit overeager to QQ all over it.
blizzard placed big sums of dollars for advertisements .. i would not be surprised if blizzard payed those sites ..
|
On January 27 2011 18:07 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 17:23 Firereaver wrote:Orly? Well Id much rather believe THIS GUY in that SC2 vanilla>>SC1 vanilla. http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/14244-gg08-sven-we-probably-didn-t-party-as-hard-as-we-thought-we-did Also I thought the campaign was FANTASTIC! Seriously, guys, SC2 gets GOTY, blasts open the e-sports scene, gets 10/10 for its single-player missions from almost every game site, has the most intensely updated balance and patch releases and there are still a few of you like OP, who seem disappointed!? Maybe you were hoping for it to be better than a 13 year old game at release but, I just think youre a bit overeager to QQ all over it. Blasts open the E-sports scene? Really? ...Where? New game, tons of tournaments, kinda reminds me of Halo 3. Seriously though it hasn't made any great strides into the esports scene. It's a good game and all but let's not over state the facts here.
I am really interested in how you would define "Blasting open the esports scene"? maybe you could also clarify what "Making great strides into the esport scene" means by your standards?
|
10387 Posts
SC2 was also a huge disappoint for me :\
Played a bit of the campaign and nearly puked over the horrendous writing. After laddering and being placed in Diamond, playing the game for a week or two, I found myself not enjoying the game anymore. It just wasn't very fun to play and I couldn't immerse myself into the game the same way I did w/ BW :\
Luckily, Blizz gave me a refund when I asked to "return" my game (Bought it digitally) :D
For me, BW is just a lot more fun to play. The sound design for one, is miles ahead of SC2's. The graphics of BW, while simple, are more appealing to me and the artistic design I like better. The gameplay in itself, while it has a "limited" interface, is what makes the game just a lot more fun for me. It's just much more visceral and engaging.
|
On January 27 2011 16:28 flyinfart wrote:
Those cute girls turned out to be emotional, insane, and almost definitely succubi..
Hahaha, so true m8 :D
|
half a year of horrible imbalance. Looks like they are trying to make WC3 look balanced.
|
i never really understood this whole idea.
Sc2 is still a baby. Suckling its moms boobs. Its older brother bw is a shit load more mature.
You and others rant about how shitty a 6 month old game is, when you compare it to a game that has more than a decade behind it. Its quite frankly ridiculous what you are expecting.
Give it time. Be patient. Bw wasnt built in a day. There were times that bw had just as much shit and geuss what? Bw is awesome.
I have some advice for you guys...
If sc2 is so shitty:
DONT PLAY IT.
You know what? This to me is basically a well covered up balance whine. Why else would you keep playing? You actually like sc2. You just wont admit it until your race gets sufficiently buffed. After that you will be bursting with delight at how awesome sc2 is.
How can you honestly say you are dissapointed? Its a new game! New exiting mechanics, new units new gameplay and more. A single player campaign with more interesting and original gameplay than any other r.t.s game before it. If you ask me, it blew any other rts before it out of the water even with its shitty story.
Instead of bitching and finding fault, look at what makes it a great game and apreciate it.
If you cant do that sell me your account and go play broodwar
|
Instead of bitching and finding fault, look at what makes it a great game and apreciate it.
Battle.net 2.0 makes me learn how to appreciate broodwar even more
|
On January 27 2011 20:32 eu.exodus wrote:
i never really understood this whole idea.
Sc2 is still a baby. Suckling its moms boobs. Its older brother bw is a shit load more mature.
You and others rant about how shitty a 6 month old game is, when you compare it to a game that has more than a decade behind it. Its quite frankly ridiculous what you are expecting.
Give it time. Be patient. Bw wasnt built in a day. There were times that bw had just as much shit and geuss what? Bw is awesome.
I have some advice for you guys...
If sc2 is so shitty:
DONT PLAY IT.
You know what? This to me is basically a well covered up balance whine. Why else would you keep playing? You actually like sc2. You just wont admit it until your race gets sufficiently buffed. After that you will be bursting with delight at how awesome sc2 is.
How can you honestly say you are dissapointed? Its a new game! New exiting mechanics, new units new gameplay and more. A single player campaign with more interesting and original gameplay than any other r.t.s game before it. If you ask me, it blew any other rts before it out of the water even with its shitty story.
Instead of bitching and finding fault, look at what makes it a great game and apreciate it.
If you cant do that sell me your account and go play broodwar
wrong. Wrong old excuse that has been rebutted but many times.
6 months is more then enough for blizzard to show some kind of effort towards balancing it. Alas
|
|
|
|
|
as i said before, if you feel that way, stop crying and dont play it? Quite honestly this bullshit whining on every fucking sc2 related thread is getting fucking annoying. I dont about you guys but its not even worth reading anything in the strategy guide unless it says [G] in front of it just for fun.
Anything more is just for lols.
If you feel you must cry/whine/bitch send and email to blizzard because around here you arent achieving anything. Nobody exept other people who cant win feel sympathy for you. Its getting so old and cliche.
Like teenage girls moaning about boys. Do you have any idea what i imagine you voice to sound like when i read this shit? A mixture of Fran Dreshner and Wendy on south park. I honestly cant imagine it sounding any other way.
|
On January 27 2011 20:58 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Oh, I just looked @ exodus's post.
I feel exactly the same way as OP, yet I don't play a race, so it's clearly not that he's whining because of balance, is he? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
TL is full of whiny brats and arrogant dicks from SC2 now, in which both refuses to listen to anything. Zerg getting buffed isn't the problem.
op said something about zerg tears?
Edit: why the nostalgia then? Its not like bw is obsolete. Sc2 is not brood war. It will never be. If you miss it, play it. If not play sc2. If bw is better for you thats your opinion and i dont hold that against you, i am also not trying to convert you to sc2 or reject your opinion of bw. What i am saying is that threads like this saying how wonderful bw war and how shitty sc2 is are useless.
|
On January 27 2011 20:58 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Oh, I just looked @ exodus's post.
I feel exactly the same way as OP, yet I don't play a race, so it's clearly not that he's whining because of balance, is he? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
TL is full of whiny brats and arrogant dicks from SC2 now, in which both refuses to listen to anything. Zerg getting buffed isn't the problem.
I feel the same way >.>
I read countless people saying "stfu your just complaining about imbalance"
|
On January 27 2011 20:58 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Oh, I just looked @ exodus's post.
I feel exactly the same way as OP, yet I don't play a race, so it's clearly not that he's whining because of balance, is he? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
TL is full of whiny brats and arrogant dicks from SC2 now, in which both refuses to listen to anything. Zerg getting buffed isn't the problem.
Doesn't help that they're soo vocal about it too. -_-
|
eu.exodus maybe you are failing to realize that Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and even though Star Craft 2 is not Brood War, it is still STAR CRAFT. It is the freaking second Star Craft, so shouldn't it be somewhat similar to how the predecessor was? In some way shape or form? I honestly think that if the game played a little more like its predecessor, that it would be all the more beneficial for the game, and players. The problem IMO is that SC2 is nothing like Brood War, in Star Craft 2, "ALL INNING " is extremely viable, in almost every game, in almost every match up, I do not believe that the game punishes you enough for ' All Inning ", so I also think that this is one of the major faults with the game.
I actually just had to come to grips with reality as well, I have played SC2 since the beginning of the beta, and now after close to 10 thousand games ( Yes , i have played that many games, including the games I played in beta, up till now. ) , I just do not have the same drive, motivation, and willpower to continue to play the game, I know what most of you are thinking ( This guy probably plays zerg since his name is GGzerG ).
Well yes I do play zerg in SC2, but I Started as Terran, then played protoss, and then started playing zerg ( because of the macro mechanics ) , Sure at the moment I do not believe that the game is balanced, I don't think it's horribly balanced, but hell...I know I will probably get alot of flaming for this but I am just going to be honest , as a player who's highest ladder points were about 3k at one point, and masters now ( i know thats not pro or top tier either ) , I strongly believe that this game is much harder for zerg than it is for terran and protoss.
I do not want to derail the thread and keep rambling on about balance because that is not the point I am trying to make, although I don't think the game should be easier for 2 out of the 3 races, and yes I say that with passion and complete honesty even though I really dont want to get flamed, that I'm a strong believer that Zerg is the hardest race to play, and I'm sure many will agree with me.
Star Craft 2 does not have the AMAZING dynamics that Brood War has, the almost unlimited potential you can have IF you have the APM and mastered the control of mutalisks, the possibilities are almost endless in the combinations, co ordinates and control that you can accomplish when you have mastered the art of mutalisk micro, and this being said, that is just one of the many amazing things that BroodWar has to offer, when was the last time you watched a ZvT and the Zerg player won solely with mutalisks ( when the Terran was not horrible ) , because of the fact that his mutalisk micro / control was simply unbelievable?
Sure , I've seen some amazing mutalisk micro, and even some amazing micro with a lot of other units, but nothing can compare to the multitasking and sheer absolute amazing control of units and possibilities that were available in Brood War, the possibilities are endless in Brood War, and in SC2 they just are not. In my opinion the game is extremely repetitive , and the possibilities are not endless, and thats why the repetition will continue.
I normally would not write so much but the OP's post truly inspired me to tell how i feel 100%, OP I couldn't have explained what you wrote any better than yourself, and you took the words right out of my head.
So many people got SC2 in hopes that it would bring them back to the gaming nostalgia that they loved which was earned on BroodWar.
eu.exodus , the WORST argument that anyone can ever bring to these forums in my opinion is " SC2 is NOT brood war . it will never be . if you miss it, play it, if not play sc2. " ..... like wow man, are you that simple minded? In defense of whoever you are slinging this negativity at, Star Craft 2 is not brood war, * BUT * Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, Do you understand that? In my honest opinion, I think Star Craft 2 should resemble Brood War in some way shape or form, and at the moment it does not, except for the fact that there is Zerg, Terran, and Protoss.
I hope to god that SC2 is like vanilla SC1 and the game totally changes when expansions come out, and it saves SC2. But at the moment I am also in the extremely dissapointed crowd. Like I said before up top, I have played atleast 10K games since beta, and I have come to the point where I cannot keep pushing myself to play anymore, I simply do not get near the same enjoyment, and I think a lot of Brood War veterans ( played 10 + years ) feel the same.
For me the balance isnt necessarily the problem , I don't think it is horribly imbalanced, It just becomes extremely boring for me to try to force myself to continue to play, something that I never had a problem with when playing BW.
Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and Brood War is Star Craft...the only problem is that Star Craft 2 is nothing like Brood War...as for me, It's time to get some of that BW nostalgia back...i'll see you on USWest / iCCup...
I'm sorry I wrote so much, but this is just an extremely important and touchy subject for me, I apologize if I offended anyone with this post, as it was not meant to offend anyone, it is just meant to reflect my opinion as well, which was inspired by the OP.
OP I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you find what you are looking for. ( the next awesome game to play )
|
On January 27 2011 21:37 Gao Xi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 20:58 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Oh, I just looked @ exodus's post.
I feel exactly the same way as OP, yet I don't play a race, so it's clearly not that he's whining because of balance, is he? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
TL is full of whiny brats and arrogant dicks from SC2 now, in which both refuses to listen to anything. Zerg getting buffed isn't the problem. Doesn't help that they're soo vocal about it too. -_-
no it does help it's pseudo neutral people like yourself who don't.
Granted yea i whine a lot about balance because tis so horribly shitty but it's not even about the proverbial me when you look at the big picture, its about the spectators who don't want to watch a boring TvT over and over and over again.
The game will die as a esport if all we will ever see are TvTs.
I'm sure ID software could make a balanced strategy if there was only 1 race><
|
Imbalance and whining aside, I agree with this:
On January 27 2011 16:28 flyinfart wrote:
Starcraft 2 isn't fun.
I don't think its totally devoid of fun, there are moments of enjoyment when you don't take it too seriously but compared to BW it pales in comparison on pure fun factor. My friends and I even went to a cyber cafe just to play sc1 again just like the old days and that was way more fun than any sc2 game we had before. For me the problem is the spell casters, they just don't have enough 'kick' compared to sc1 where a single dark swarm or static field could change the tide of battle. Also, shit in sc2 die too fast and macro is waaaaay too easy.
Though, I have hope that it will change. Playing the game a lot less has helped me find the 'joy' in sc2. I don't know whether this is a good or bad thing, but for me its currently the only way I could enjoy sc2 which was to limit my time and effort in it.
|
I bought my SC2 on the day I finished my thesis interim report. I felt so proud of my accomplishments that I sought to reward myself by buying that game everyone says I should be good at because I'm Korean and I played SCBW. So I did.
Played through the campaign. Contrary to some views, I felt that the plot was mediocre at worst, engaging in some. I honestly struggled whether to please the doctor or the alien sexy. After finishing the campaign, I felt like I've got enough for the money's worth.
Then I played on bnet. Didn't quite feel like playing. Lots of redundant strategies, super-hard-counters (wtf immortals?), gay maps (sorry I really couldn't think of another word to describe it), bla bla bla. So then I went back to my old favourite, SCBW. Still love it. Still play it.
So now I've got a few too many games on my desktop. SCBW, D2, W3, SC2, NWN1, NWN2, MS, Cabal, Sims 2, SimCity 4. Not to mention that Freecell is my all-time favourite Windows-default game. I don't think I'll be touching SC2 again anytime soon... I'd rather be Freecell-ing.
|
just because i read it atleas 2 times here already.
could u stop this "SCII VANILLA > SC VANILLA"? fuck yes.. it should be like that... would be god damn emberassing for blizzard if SCII vanilla would be worse then a 13 year old vanilla game.
this "OMG ITS NEW." is no argument.. SC had no 13 years of esports background like SCII had.
SCII takes advantage of all the stuff happened before it..
|
Well SC2 wasnt neither a disappointment nor a joy-chocker for me as I wasnt expecting anything really. I hadnt even planned to switch over because I loved Wc3 so much that I just couldnt for my life imagine this amazing game fading out to what it has become just because SC2 was released. But as it turns out, basically everyone switched over. Life goes on and here I am. Sc2 is I must say a quite cool game but its still to me nothing compared to Wc3 in terms of epicness. But there're so few high leveled Wc3 games played nowadays that I just have to fill the day with something else, and watching big live offline events such as GSL or MLG etc really isnt too bad, you kinda get sucked into the excitement no matter the nature of the game, as its the competitive aura that affects you.
|
honestly, if it weren't have 'starcraft' in it's name.... i would have never bothered, cared or bought this game T___T
srsly, screw chat channels, little stars on badges and purposefully delaying updates with minor changes to gameplay. Other than that, I still love you Blizzard.... you're like my second mom
|
I was disappointed with SC2; went back to BW the week after.
|
United States3714 Posts
I feel your pain dude. SCBW was the only game I played for a long time. When my parents were screaming at eachother (got divorced soon after) I was at the comp playing. I knew that it would be unfair to hold SC2 up to BW because of what BW meant to me. But I cannot trick myself into thinking this game is anywhere close to the greatness BW was. Every single one of my friends who bought the game havent been on in 5-8 weeks when I stopped playing which was about a month ago. I still like being a part of the community thought :D
|
On January 27 2011 21:59 GGzerG wrote:
eu.exodus maybe you are failing to realize that Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and even though Star Craft 2 is not Brood War, it is still STAR CRAFT. It is the freaking second Star Craft, so shouldn't it be somewhat similar to how the predecessor was? In some way shape or form? I honestly think that if the game played a little more like its predecessor, that it would be all the more beneficial for the game, and players. The problem IMO is that SC2 is nothing like Brood War, in Star Craft 2, "ALL INNING " is extremely viable, in almost every game, in almost every match up, I do not believe that the game punishes you enough for ' All Inning ", so I also think that this is one of the major faults with the game.
I actually just had to come to grips with reality as well, I have played SC2 since the beginning of the beta, and now after close to 10 thousand games ( Yes , i have played that many games, including the games I played in beta, up till now. ) , I just do not have the same drive, motivation, and willpower to continue to play the game, I know what most of you are thinking ( This guy probably plays zerg since his name is GGzerG ).
Well yes I do play zerg in SC2, but I Started as Terran, then played protoss, and then started playing zerg ( because of the macro mechanics ) , Sure at the moment I do not believe that the game is balanced, I don't think it's horribly balanced, but hell...I know I will probably get alot of flaming for this but I am just going to be honest , as a player who's highest ladder points were about 3k at one point, and masters now ( i know thats not pro or top tier either ) , I strongly believe that this game is much harder for zerg than it is for terran and protoss.
I do not want to derail the thread and keep rambling on about balance because that is not the point I am trying to make, although I don't think the game should be easier for 2 out of the 3 races, and yes I say that with passion and complete honesty even though I really dont want to get flamed, that I'm a strong believer that Zerg is the hardest race to play, and I'm sure many will agree with me.
Star Craft 2 does not have the AMAZING dynamics that Brood War has, the almost unlimited potential you can have IF you have the APM and mastered the control of mutalisks, the possibilities are almost endless in the combinations, co ordinates and control that you can accomplish when you have mastered the art of mutalisk micro, and this being said, that is just one of the many amazing things that BroodWar has to offer, when was the last time you watched a ZvT and the Zerg player won solely with mutalisks ( when the Terran was not horrible ) , because of the fact that his mutalisk micro / control was simply unbelievable?
Sure , I've seen some amazing mutalisk micro, and even some amazing micro with a lot of other units, but nothing can compare to the multitasking and sheer absolute amazing control of units and possibilities that were available in Brood War, the possibilities are endless in Brood War, and in SC2 they just are not. In my opinion the game is extremely repetitive , and the possibilities are not endless, and thats why the repetition will continue.
I normally would not write so much but the OP's post truly inspired me to tell how i feel 100%, OP I couldn't have explained what you wrote any better than yourself, and you took the words right out of my head.
So many people got SC2 in hopes that it would bring them back to the gaming nostalgia that they loved which was earned on BroodWar.
eu.exodus , the WORST argument that anyone can ever bring to these forums in my opinion is " SC2 is NOT brood war . it will never be . if you miss it, play it, if not play sc2. " ..... like wow man, are you that simple minded? In defense of whoever you are slinging this negativity at, Star Craft 2 is not brood war, * BUT * Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, Do you understand that? In my honest opinion, I think Star Craft 2 should resemble Brood War in some way shape or form, and at the moment it does not, except for the fact that there is Zerg, Terran, and Protoss.
I hope to god that SC2 is like vanilla SC1 and the game totally changes when expansions come out, and it saves SC2. But at the moment I am also in the extremely dissapointed crowd. Like I said before up top, I have played atleast 10K games since beta, and I have come to the point where I cannot keep pushing myself to play anymore, I simply do not get near the same enjoyment, and I think a lot of Brood War veterans ( played 10 + years ) feel the same.
For me the balance isnt necessarily the problem , I don't think it is horribly imbalanced, It just becomes extremely boring for me to try to force myself to continue to play, something that I never had a problem with when playing BW.
Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and Brood War is Star Craft...the only problem is that Star Craft 2 is nothing like Brood War...as for me, It's time to get some of that BW nostalgia back...i'll see you on USWest / iCCup...
I'm sorry I wrote so much, but this is just an extremely important and touchy subject for me, I apologize if I offended anyone with this post, as it was not meant to offend anyone, it is just meant to reflect my opinion as well, which was inspired by the OP.
OP I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you find what you are looking for. ( the next awesome game to play )
I agree with you that SC2 is still SC. But the game was just released like 6 months ago. Look at BW 6 months after its release, was it balanced? Fuck no, it didn't get balanced until like around 2000 2001. So just give SC2 some time and watch how the game will evolve. But you know why SC2 is different from SC and you feel like zerg is the hardest race to play? Because of its mechanics. SC2 was made much more noob friendly, including the mechanics of the game. For instance, in SC2 you can group as many units as you can in 1 group. In BW, you can only group 12 units at a time. Now, this is a HUGE difference. It required a lot of controls and APMs. Another example. You can rally your SCVs/drones/probes to the mineral patches and start mining for instance in SC2. In BW you couldn't do that. You'd rally your workers somewhere close and MANUALLY control it to the mineral patch, which requires more controls. Everything in BW required more controls, so a lot of APMs were required. That's why the learning curve for BW was much harder than SC2. That's why Koreans don't like SC2 much. It is too easy, not much variations. Another reason is that if you look at Korean players, they have much higher APMs than foreigners for the most part, so if the mechanics were like BW, I'm sure foreigners would get raped. SC2 was made easy to be honest in my opinion was because Blizzard wanted SC2 to be competitive around the world, instead of just Korea. If the game requires like 300 something APM to perfectly control everything, I don't think you'll see any foreigners in the SC2 scene to be honest with you.
|
BW had no background when it was 6 months old.
SCII has the background of 13 years when it just came out so?
u cant compare that...
|
wow you have almost the exact same story to me. except the instead of a divorce I was just angry and antisocial (still am) and you stuck with sc2 while I played it for no more than 2 weeks.
|
I think that SC2 will get better, but right now, it's nowhere near the level of BW and it's not wrong to feel dissapointed in blizzard because of that.
Your story is alot like mine, OP, except I was playing counter-strike instead of sc1. Play some BW and enjoy life 
|
On January 27 2011 23:14 JiSu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 21:59 GGzerG wrote:
eu.exodus maybe you are failing to realize that Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and even though Star Craft 2 is not Brood War, it is still STAR CRAFT. It is the freaking second Star Craft, so shouldn't it be somewhat similar to how the predecessor was? In some way shape or form? I honestly think that if the game played a little more like its predecessor, that it would be all the more beneficial for the game, and players. The problem IMO is that SC2 is nothing like Brood War, in Star Craft 2, "ALL INNING " is extremely viable, in almost every game, in almost every match up, I do not believe that the game punishes you enough for ' All Inning ", so I also think that this is one of the major faults with the game.
I actually just had to come to grips with reality as well, I have played SC2 since the beginning of the beta, and now after close to 10 thousand games ( Yes , i have played that many games, including the games I played in beta, up till now. ) , I just do not have the same drive, motivation, and willpower to continue to play the game, I know what most of you are thinking ( This guy probably plays zerg since his name is GGzerG ).
Well yes I do play zerg in SC2, but I Started as Terran, then played protoss, and then started playing zerg ( because of the macro mechanics ) , Sure at the moment I do not believe that the game is balanced, I don't think it's horribly balanced, but hell...I know I will probably get alot of flaming for this but I am just going to be honest , as a player who's highest ladder points were about 3k at one point, and masters now ( i know thats not pro or top tier either ) , I strongly believe that this game is much harder for zerg than it is for terran and protoss.
I do not want to derail the thread and keep rambling on about balance because that is not the point I am trying to make, although I don't think the game should be easier for 2 out of the 3 races, and yes I say that with passion and complete honesty even though I really dont want to get flamed, that I'm a strong believer that Zerg is the hardest race to play, and I'm sure many will agree with me.
Star Craft 2 does not have the AMAZING dynamics that Brood War has, the almost unlimited potential you can have IF you have the APM and mastered the control of mutalisks, the possibilities are almost endless in the combinations, co ordinates and control that you can accomplish when you have mastered the art of mutalisk micro, and this being said, that is just one of the many amazing things that BroodWar has to offer, when was the last time you watched a ZvT and the Zerg player won solely with mutalisks ( when the Terran was not horrible ) , because of the fact that his mutalisk micro / control was simply unbelievable?
Sure , I've seen some amazing mutalisk micro, and even some amazing micro with a lot of other units, but nothing can compare to the multitasking and sheer absolute amazing control of units and possibilities that were available in Brood War, the possibilities are endless in Brood War, and in SC2 they just are not. In my opinion the game is extremely repetitive , and the possibilities are not endless, and thats why the repetition will continue.
I normally would not write so much but the OP's post truly inspired me to tell how i feel 100%, OP I couldn't have explained what you wrote any better than yourself, and you took the words right out of my head.
So many people got SC2 in hopes that it would bring them back to the gaming nostalgia that they loved which was earned on BroodWar.
eu.exodus , the WORST argument that anyone can ever bring to these forums in my opinion is " SC2 is NOT brood war . it will never be . if you miss it, play it, if not play sc2. " ..... like wow man, are you that simple minded? In defense of whoever you are slinging this negativity at, Star Craft 2 is not brood war, * BUT * Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, Do you understand that? In my honest opinion, I think Star Craft 2 should resemble Brood War in some way shape or form, and at the moment it does not, except for the fact that there is Zerg, Terran, and Protoss.
I hope to god that SC2 is like vanilla SC1 and the game totally changes when expansions come out, and it saves SC2. But at the moment I am also in the extremely dissapointed crowd. Like I said before up top, I have played atleast 10K games since beta, and I have come to the point where I cannot keep pushing myself to play anymore, I simply do not get near the same enjoyment, and I think a lot of Brood War veterans ( played 10 + years ) feel the same.
For me the balance isnt necessarily the problem , I don't think it is horribly imbalanced, It just becomes extremely boring for me to try to force myself to continue to play, something that I never had a problem with when playing BW.
Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and Brood War is Star Craft...the only problem is that Star Craft 2 is nothing like Brood War...as for me, It's time to get some of that BW nostalgia back...i'll see you on USWest / iCCup...
I'm sorry I wrote so much, but this is just an extremely important and touchy subject for me, I apologize if I offended anyone with this post, as it was not meant to offend anyone, it is just meant to reflect my opinion as well, which was inspired by the OP.
OP I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you find what you are looking for. ( the next awesome game to play ) I agree with you that SC2 is still SC. But the game was just released like 6 months ago. Look at BW 6 months after its release, was it balanced? Fuck no, it didn't get balanced until like around 2000 2001. So just give SC2 some time and watch how the game will evolve. But you know why SC2 is different from SC and you feel like zerg is the hardest race to play? Because of its mechanics. SC2 was made much more noob friendly, including the mechanics of the game. For instance, in SC2 you can group as many units as you can in 1 group. In BW, you can only group 12 units at a time. Now, this is a HUGE difference. It required a lot of controls and APMs. Another example. You can rally your SCVs/drones/probes to the mineral patches and start mining for instance in SC2. In BW you couldn't do that. You'd rally your workers somewhere close and MANUALLY control it to the mineral patch, which requires more controls. Everything in BW required more controls, so a lot of APMs were required. That's why the learning curve for BW was much harder than SC2. That's why Koreans don't like SC2 much. It is too easy, not much variations. Another reason is that if you look at Korean players, they have much higher APMs than foreigners for the most part, so if the mechanics were like BW, I'm sure foreigners would get raped. SC2 was made easy to be honest in my opinion was because Blizzard wanted SC2 to be competitive around the world, instead of just Korea. If the game requires like 300 something APM to perfectly control everything, I don't think you'll see any foreigners in the SC2 scene to be honest with you.
No. Look back at BW 6 months from release is not a good fucking excuse. God damn it people need to stop saying this. Back then, Blizzard was a small, clueless company with not too many resources. Esports basically didn't exist, and people had no God damn clue on how to properly play an RTS. All of that is fixed now - Blizzard is massive and has tons of money and people can figure out games much more quickly.
|
Croatia9491 Posts
On January 27 2011 23:46 puppykiller wrote:
wow you have almost the exact same story to me. except the instead of a divorce I was just angry and antisocial (still am) and you stuck with sc2 while I played it for no more than 2 weeks.
I can see why...
|
Really the best way to show Blizzard that sc2 isnt good enough is to not play it. Playing it merely becuase it bears the same name as sc1 just shows that you are willing to dish out your money on something you think is sub-par. Blizzard loves this becuase if old school sc1 players are gonna buy sc2 just cause it shares a name with sc1, then they have already apealed to the old school market and now in designing the game they can put more attention on appealing to the "casual gamer" by presenting them with a noob friendly game.
Regarding that one dudes comment on page one... those video game sights such as  kotaku are purely for advertisement and nothing else. They serve no purpous other than to attempt to solidify a consumerist culture among people who play video games. I find the opinions on TL way more legitiment than those expressed on "gaming sites" becuase TL is/was made up of dedicated people who come together out of a love of the competitive aspect of one game as opposed to a love for the gratifying aspects of a game. In broodwar, you have to work your ass off to do well, you earn your wins. In sc2, maybe compared to other games like Halo it may feel as if you really earn your wins, but to a BW player, sc2 feels like a noob game and this makes it hard to enjoy.
In short it is easy to think of it this way. For everyone used to games easier then sc2, victories in sc2 will be more satisfying than victories in prior games. For everyone used to games harder than sc2, victories in sc2 will not be as satisfying as victories in their prior game. Blizzard has designed there game to satisfy those used to games that are easier than BW. Unless they take measures to raise the difficulty, BW players will have trouble enjoing their wins.
|
It has indeed been 6 months, time flew but still no new maps...it could end up like WC3 but I don't think so. SC2 has superior gameplay mechanics to BW but the storytelling in the WoL campaign was a decade long built up disappointment of shallow cowboys, unless your 13 years old and have never played BW before then you'll think it's the most awesome thing ever.
I guess this will just derail into another Blizzard love/hate thread but I don't really know, if "be patient" is the answer to SC2's future I can tell you it's not. Some things in life NEVER change, giving people second chances is opening a door to repeat the same mistakes and giving them the benefit of the doubt for things to not change.
Patience and second chances is what keeps people in bad relationships, the same bad re-elections, the same mistakes and the same flaws that will remain the same, unchanged. Could Blizzard in the decade since it's release go back and re-polish BW, make it possible to select more than 12 units, improve pathing AI, enable higher resolutions etc could they?
Probably yes but for whatever reason they didn't and when it comes to many old games that had a long lifespan regardless of the genre or company in charge, very often the players stay patient and wait...and wait...and nothing changes. It's like getting a new job and going through your first day of work, you have to decide if this is something worth continuing with to "see how it goes" or should you just quit since you got the general idea of how the job is?
Patience is no virtue but it's own reward.
|
On January 28 2011 00:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:
No. Look back at BW 6 months from release is not a good fucking excuse. God damn it people need to stop saying this. Back then, Blizzard was a small, clueless company with not too many resources. Esports basically didn't exist, and people had no God damn clue on how to properly play an RTS. All of that is fixed now - Blizzard is massive and has tons of money and people can figure out games much more quickly.
6 months after bw was released most of the people playing it didn't even have internet. or they had 14.4k dialup for email and nothing else... lol.
|
Nice hidden balance thread. Does it take nearly 1500 words to say you're quitting because you think zerg is underpowered? You say teamliquid is full of whiny brats and at the same time you fit this role entirely.
Honestly I don't care for bw vs. sc2 drama. They're both amazing games in there own right. I hate making inflammatory posts but this kind of hipocrisy is just painful to read.
|
I think sc2 is just too hard to get consistently good at. Being able to wall every map makes scouting very costly. It was very nearly a dominant strategy in bw to scout, but in sc2 the decision whether or not to scout is almost as important as how well you scout. In sc2, every matchup plays out like a bw ZvZ. Or an early goon PvP.
|
I only played sc2 for maybe a week.. uninstalled it and laughed at how bad it was. im not buying diablo 3 as it seems blizzard has lost its ability to make games. i blame activision somehow.
|
if somebody created a modification to sc2's units to make them able to micro (moving shots for some) and also force people not to use mbs and mostly 1 billion unit groupings ( to maybe like 25) and also tweak the way damage is distributed, it would change the game a lot and would make it a bit harder.
I mean come on, if they at least went like "okay in silver/copper you can use everything provided in sc2 then in gold plat you can't use mbs then in diamond you can't use mass grouping and in master, you have to actually micro and so on" that would make the game more challenging and create a natural learning curve online (they can also use that in their single player missions to make it more interesting). People would WANT to get better, but now, the're promoting mediocrity.
I remember there was a guy during the beta that created some "microable" units after blizzard failed with the phoenix and there were tons of suggestions. I don't know what happened but I wish that continued because right now, the only reason people play or promote this game is because they want to
1- become famous
2- want to make money
3- can only do that (ex-progamers , and it's not their fault, that's what the've been doing for a while and they need the cash)
4- new job opportunities (casters, streamers, etc)
I might sound like a hater but I really just want this game to be exciting and fun. In the mean time, i play in the csl and with friends who don't know better, but most of the time i'm playing bw.
|
I wholeheartedly agree with the OP... this game has been a major disappointment to me. It's a shame that I give so much importance to SC2, because I really WANT to like it.
For my part, the balance isn't what makes the game bad. The game is inherently boring to play - and while it doesn't mean much, I'm a Master with about 140 1v1's played - and in most of those games, I try to do something fun - warp prism warpins, early HTs, air plays, etc. I just don't think it's fun.
As far as I'm concerned, I can watch days of GSL and only catch a couple entertaining games, whereas the OSL/MSL/PL games are very entertaining for the most part. What are fun units in SC2? The reaver, my favorite BW unit, is gone. Defilers, firebats (why? ran out of gas?)...
One of the explanations could be that the depth of SC2 hasn't been found yet, which is true to a certain extent, but when players figure it out, is it really going to be a much more enjoyable game? I hope that the expansions fix this, because patches won't. SC2 is a better than average game, I guess. I'll give it that. But that's really all it is, and I'm convinced that a game of exactly this level of quality would never get a decent playerbase if it wasn't the big brother of (in my opinion) the best RTS ever made. Avatar 2 might be complete garbage and still kill at the box office because of hype, and that's what Blizzard did.
That's my take anyway.
|
On January 28 2011 04:37 Freaky[x] wrote:
if somebody created a modification to sc2's units to make them able to micro (moving shots for some) and also force people not to use mbs and mostly 1 billion unit groupings ( to maybe like 25) and also tweak the way damage is distributed, it would change the game a lot and would make it a bit harder.
I mean come on, if they at least went like "okay in silver/copper you can use everything provided in sc2 then in gold plat you can't use mbs then in diamond you can't use mass grouping and in master, you have to actually micro and so on" that would make the game more challenging and create a natural learning curve online (they can also use that in their single player missions to make it more interesting). People would WANT to get better, but now, the're promoting mediocrity.
I remember there was a guy during the beta that created some "microable" units after blizzard failed with the phoenix and there were tons of suggestions. I don't know what happened but I wish that continued because right now, the only reason people play or promote this game is because they want to
1- become famous
2- want to make money
3- can only do that (ex-progamers , and it's not their fault, that's what the've been doing for a while and they need the cash)
4- new job opportunities (casters, streamers, etc)
I might sound like a hater but I really just want this game to be exciting and fun. In the mean time, i play in the csl and with friends who don't know better, but most of the time i'm playing bw.
Wow...that's actually the best thing I've ever read. Casual people who are in Bronze don't need to have super fundamentals and can use MBS / huge grouping / automining / etc, but in Masters you actually have to have skill and it reverts to the old style. Blizzard...nobody loses this way, and everyone wins...
|
blizzard never intended from the beginning to make anything that would emulate what made bw one of the greatest games ever made. sc2 was developed to make money, any blizzard official saying anything otherwise is speaking to you through their ass.
there are comments on here saying that sc2 is still early in its release and that bw was not balanced at 6 months after release. it was a different world back then where people's opinions on games were not so easily communicated like we can now through tl, but i can firmly say that bw was never in a situation like sc2 where large numbers of ppl expressed such disappointment in it's entertainment value. when bw was released it was the fucking shit. it was a game anyone could learn to love to play.
sc2 will never be enjoyed by the masses the way blizzard claims it wants it to. sc2 will never appeal to a viewing audience in competitive scenes when there are few who even enjoy playing the game to begin with.
all the foreigners competing in sc2, i believe are only doing so because they have a competitive gaming background, and intend to find success in this game while blizzard is still willing to pour money into it and force it to become an esport. the competitors in sc2 play because of opportunity, not because they like the game or love to play it.
i remember reading interviews of the old progamers, when they were asked why they decided to play starcraft. the uniform answer from all of them was, because it was fun. bw was a game built on by people who loved the game. in korea it was kids spending their time in pcbangs, playing the game and wanting to get good at it, even though there was no reward at all in sight.
it saddens me greatly to concede my hopes and accept that sc2 will never be what we all wanted it to be. those experiences that gave me so much joy from playing the game to watching professionals showcasing their talents on the biggest stage possible, living out their dreams, are something that will remain exclusive to bw.
|
damn .. i remembered back when there was a tourny at my town FFA BGH .. that was 2000/1 i think .. i said to myself while spamming hydras
TANKS ARE TOO STRONG .. not imba .. but strong! unbelievable!
+ Show Spoiler ['why tanks are imba' you…] +because they were behind a depot wall
|
On January 28 2011 00:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2011 23:14 JiSu wrote:On January 27 2011 21:59 GGzerG wrote:
eu.exodus maybe you are failing to realize that Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and even though Star Craft 2 is not Brood War, it is still STAR CRAFT. It is the freaking second Star Craft, so shouldn't it be somewhat similar to how the predecessor was? In some way shape or form? I honestly think that if the game played a little more like its predecessor, that it would be all the more beneficial for the game, and players. The problem IMO is that SC2 is nothing like Brood War, in Star Craft 2, "ALL INNING " is extremely viable, in almost every game, in almost every match up, I do not believe that the game punishes you enough for ' All Inning ", so I also think that this is one of the major faults with the game.
I actually just had to come to grips with reality as well, I have played SC2 since the beginning of the beta, and now after close to 10 thousand games ( Yes , i have played that many games, including the games I played in beta, up till now. ) , I just do not have the same drive, motivation, and willpower to continue to play the game, I know what most of you are thinking ( This guy probably plays zerg since his name is GGzerG ).
Well yes I do play zerg in SC2, but I Started as Terran, then played protoss, and then started playing zerg ( because of the macro mechanics ) , Sure at the moment I do not believe that the game is balanced, I don't think it's horribly balanced, but hell...I know I will probably get alot of flaming for this but I am just going to be honest , as a player who's highest ladder points were about 3k at one point, and masters now ( i know thats not pro or top tier either ) , I strongly believe that this game is much harder for zerg than it is for terran and protoss.
I do not want to derail the thread and keep rambling on about balance because that is not the point I am trying to make, although I don't think the game should be easier for 2 out of the 3 races, and yes I say that with passion and complete honesty even though I really dont want to get flamed, that I'm a strong believer that Zerg is the hardest race to play, and I'm sure many will agree with me.
Star Craft 2 does not have the AMAZING dynamics that Brood War has, the almost unlimited potential you can have IF you have the APM and mastered the control of mutalisks, the possibilities are almost endless in the combinations, co ordinates and control that you can accomplish when you have mastered the art of mutalisk micro, and this being said, that is just one of the many amazing things that BroodWar has to offer, when was the last time you watched a ZvT and the Zerg player won solely with mutalisks ( when the Terran was not horrible ) , because of the fact that his mutalisk micro / control was simply unbelievable?
Sure , I've seen some amazing mutalisk micro, and even some amazing micro with a lot of other units, but nothing can compare to the multitasking and sheer absolute amazing control of units and possibilities that were available in Brood War, the possibilities are endless in Brood War, and in SC2 they just are not. In my opinion the game is extremely repetitive , and the possibilities are not endless, and thats why the repetition will continue.
I normally would not write so much but the OP's post truly inspired me to tell how i feel 100%, OP I couldn't have explained what you wrote any better than yourself, and you took the words right out of my head.
So many people got SC2 in hopes that it would bring them back to the gaming nostalgia that they loved which was earned on BroodWar.
eu.exodus , the WORST argument that anyone can ever bring to these forums in my opinion is " SC2 is NOT brood war . it will never be . if you miss it, play it, if not play sc2. " ..... like wow man, are you that simple minded? In defense of whoever you are slinging this negativity at, Star Craft 2 is not brood war, * BUT * Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, Do you understand that? In my honest opinion, I think Star Craft 2 should resemble Brood War in some way shape or form, and at the moment it does not, except for the fact that there is Zerg, Terran, and Protoss.
I hope to god that SC2 is like vanilla SC1 and the game totally changes when expansions come out, and it saves SC2. But at the moment I am also in the extremely dissapointed crowd. Like I said before up top, I have played atleast 10K games since beta, and I have come to the point where I cannot keep pushing myself to play anymore, I simply do not get near the same enjoyment, and I think a lot of Brood War veterans ( played 10 + years ) feel the same.
For me the balance isnt necessarily the problem , I don't think it is horribly imbalanced, It just becomes extremely boring for me to try to force myself to continue to play, something that I never had a problem with when playing BW.
Star Craft 2 is Star Craft, and Brood War is Star Craft...the only problem is that Star Craft 2 is nothing like Brood War...as for me, It's time to get some of that BW nostalgia back...i'll see you on USWest / iCCup...
I'm sorry I wrote so much, but this is just an extremely important and touchy subject for me, I apologize if I offended anyone with this post, as it was not meant to offend anyone, it is just meant to reflect my opinion as well, which was inspired by the OP.
OP I wish you the best of luck and I hope that you find what you are looking for. ( the next awesome game to play ) I agree with you that SC2 is still SC. But the game was just released like 6 months ago. Look at BW 6 months after its release, was it balanced? Fuck no, it didn't get balanced until like around 2000 2001. So just give SC2 some time and watch how the game will evolve. But you know why SC2 is different from SC and you feel like zerg is the hardest race to play? Because of its mechanics. SC2 was made much more noob friendly, including the mechanics of the game. For instance, in SC2 you can group as many units as you can in 1 group. In BW, you can only group 12 units at a time. Now, this is a HUGE difference. It required a lot of controls and APMs. Another example. You can rally your SCVs/drones/probes to the mineral patches and start mining for instance in SC2. In BW you couldn't do that. You'd rally your workers somewhere close and MANUALLY control it to the mineral patch, which requires more controls. Everything in BW required more controls, so a lot of APMs were required. That's why the learning curve for BW was much harder than SC2. That's why Koreans don't like SC2 much. It is too easy, not much variations. Another reason is that if you look at Korean players, they have much higher APMs than foreigners for the most part, so if the mechanics were like BW, I'm sure foreigners would get raped. SC2 was made easy to be honest in my opinion was because Blizzard wanted SC2 to be competitive around the world, instead of just Korea. If the game requires like 300 something APM to perfectly control everything, I don't think you'll see any foreigners in the SC2 scene to be honest with you. No. Look back at BW 6 months from release is not a good fucking excuse. God damn it people need to stop saying this. Back then, Blizzard was a small, clueless company with not too many resources. Esports basically didn't exist, and people had no God damn clue on how to properly play an RTS. All of that is fixed now - Blizzard is massive and has tons of money and people can figure out games much more quickly.
Your reason is the dumbest excuse. Just because they have more money now, that means they can make one of the most sophisticated game balanced in 6 months? Are you insane??? What does money have to with anything??? It's not easy to think of the most balanced maps. Some maps on iCCup I've played aren't balanced either. You might argue that with money they have a bigger team working on balance but I mean you NEED people who actually understand the game, its mechanics in order to fix balance issuse. And these people are the elite ones in the GSL. They need time/experience to see what is wrong with the game. if they want to make it balanced fast, like I said, make every single mechanics like BW and start from there. So then SC2 will just be anoher version of BW with some new units and better graphics.
I also read somewhere that people say tanks are OP... It's not OP.. The smart targeting AI is. Again, everything is made simpler so average joes can play. That's why you don't see the UNLIMITED POTENTIAL like the thread maker said because you don't need to MANUALLY control the tanks anymore. Just let the AI do the thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
