EPTSCII has the background of 13 years when it just came out so?
u cant compare that...
Dear Blizzard (or, one fan's story) - Page 3
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
SCII has the background of 13 years when it just came out so? u cant compare that... | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
Your story is alot like mine, OP, except I was playing counter-strike instead of sc1. Play some BW and enjoy life  | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On January 27 2011 23:14 JiSu wrote: I agree with you that SC2 is still SC. But the game was just released like 6 months ago. Look at BW 6 months after its release, was it balanced? Fuck no, it didn't get balanced until like around 2000 2001. So just give SC2 some time and watch how the game will evolve. But you know why SC2 is different from SC and you feel like zerg is the hardest race to play? Because of its mechanics. SC2 was made much more noob friendly, including the mechanics of the game. For instance, in SC2 you can group as many units as you can in 1 group. In BW, you can only group 12 units at a time. Now, this is a HUGE difference. It required a lot of controls and APMs. Another example. You can rally your SCVs/drones/probes to the mineral patches and start mining for instance in SC2. In BW you couldn't do that. You'd rally your workers somewhere close and MANUALLY control it to the mineral patch, which requires more controls. Everything in BW required more controls, so a lot of APMs were required. That's why the learning curve for BW was much harder than SC2. That's why Koreans don't like SC2 much. It is too easy, not much variations. Another reason is that if you look at Korean players, they have much higher APMs than foreigners for the most part, so if the mechanics were like BW, I'm sure foreigners would get raped. SC2 was made easy to be honest in my opinion was because Blizzard wanted SC2 to be competitive around the world, instead of just Korea. If the game requires like 300 something APM to perfectly control everything, I don't think you'll see any foreigners in the SC2 scene to be honest with you. No. Look back at BW 6 months from release is not a good fucking excuse. God damn it people need to stop saying this. Back then, Blizzard was a small, clueless company with not too many resources. Esports basically didn't exist, and people had no God damn clue on how to properly play an RTS. All of that is fixed now - Blizzard is massive and has tons of money and people can figure out games much more quickly. | ||
2Pacalypse-
Croatia9446 Posts
On January 27 2011 23:46 puppykiller wrote: wow you have almost the exact same story to me. except the instead of a divorce I was just angry and antisocial (still am) and you stuck with sc2 while I played it for no more than 2 weeks. I can see why... | ||
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puppykiller
United States3126 Posts
Regarding that one dudes comment on page one... those video game sights such as  kotaku are purely for advertisement and nothing else. They serve no purpous other than to attempt to solidify a consumerist culture among people who play video games. I find the opinions on TL way more legitiment than those expressed on "gaming sites" becuase TL is/was made up of dedicated people who come together out of a love of the competitive aspect of one game as opposed to a love for the gratifying aspects of a game. In broodwar, you have to work your ass off to do well, you earn your wins. In sc2, maybe compared to other games like Halo it may feel as if you really earn your wins, but to a BW player, sc2 feels like a noob game and this makes it hard to enjoy.In short it is easy to think of it this way. For everyone used to games easier then sc2, victories in sc2 will be more satisfying than victories in prior games. For everyone used to games harder than sc2, victories in sc2 will not be as satisfying as victories in their prior game. Blizzard has designed there game to satisfy those used to games that are easier than BW. Unless they take measures to raise the difficulty, BW players will have trouble enjoing their wins. | ||
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ChaseR
Norway1004 Posts
I guess this will just derail into another Blizzard love/hate thread but I don't really know, if "be patient" is the answer to SC2's future I can tell you it's not. Some things in life NEVER change, giving people second chances is opening a door to repeat the same mistakes and giving them the benefit of the doubt for things to not change. Patience and second chances is what keeps people in bad relationships, the same bad re-elections, the same mistakes and the same flaws that will remain the same, unchanged. Could Blizzard in the decade since it's release go back and re-polish BW, make it possible to select more than 12 units, improve pathing AI, enable higher resolutions etc could they? Probably yes but for whatever reason they didn't and when it comes to many old games that had a long lifespan regardless of the genre or company in charge, very often the players stay patient and wait...and wait...and nothing changes. It's like getting a new job and going through your first day of work, you have to decide if this is something worth continuing with to "see how it goes" or should you just quit since you got the general idea of how the job is? Patience is no virtue but it's own reward. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On January 28 2011 00:31 Stratos_speAr wrote: No. Look back at BW 6 months from release is not a good fucking excuse. God damn it people need to stop saying this. Back then, Blizzard was a small, clueless company with not too many resources. Esports basically didn't exist, and people had no God damn clue on how to properly play an RTS. All of that is fixed now - Blizzard is massive and has tons of money and people can figure out games much more quickly. 6 months after bw was released most of the people playing it didn't even have internet. or they had 14.4k dialup for email and nothing else... lol. | ||
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Hakker
United States1360 Posts
Honestly I don't care for bw vs. sc2 drama. They're both amazing games in there own right. I hate making inflammatory posts but this kind of hipocrisy is just painful to read. | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
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Freaky[x]
Canada995 Posts
I mean come on, if they at least went like "okay in silver/copper you can use everything provided in sc2 then in gold plat you can't use mbs then in diamond you can't use mass grouping and in master, you have to actually micro and so on" that would make the game more challenging and create a natural learning curve online (they can also use that in their single player missions to make it more interesting). People would WANT to get better, but now, the're promoting mediocrity. I remember there was a guy during the beta that created some "microable" units after blizzard failed with the phoenix and there were tons of suggestions. I don't know what happened but I wish that continued because right now, the only reason people play or promote this game is because they want to 1- become famous 2- want to make money 3- can only do that (ex-progamers , and it's not their fault, that's what the've been doing for a while and they need the cash) 4- new job opportunities (casters, streamers, etc) I might sound like a hater but I really just want this game to be exciting and fun. In the mean time, i play in the csl and with friends who don't know better, but most of the time i'm playing bw. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
For my part, the balance isn't what makes the game bad. The game is inherently boring to play - and while it doesn't mean much, I'm a Master with about 140 1v1's played - and in most of those games, I try to do something fun - warp prism warpins, early HTs, air plays, etc. I just don't think it's fun. As far as I'm concerned, I can watch days of GSL and only catch a couple entertaining games, whereas the OSL/MSL/PL games are very entertaining for the most part. What are fun units in SC2? The reaver, my favorite BW unit, is gone. Defilers, firebats (why? ran out of gas?)... One of the explanations could be that the depth of SC2 hasn't been found yet, which is true to a certain extent, but when players figure it out, is it really going to be a much more enjoyable game? I hope that the expansions fix this, because patches won't. SC2 is a better than average game, I guess. I'll give it that. But that's really all it is, and I'm convinced that a game of exactly this level of quality would never get a decent playerbase if it wasn't the big brother of (in my opinion) the best RTS ever made. Avatar 2 might be complete garbage and still kill at the box office because of hype, and that's what Blizzard did. That's my take anyway. | ||
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mierin
United States4942 Posts
On January 28 2011 04:37 Freaky[x] wrote: if somebody created a modification to sc2's units to make them able to micro (moving shots for some) and also force people not to use mbs and mostly 1 billion unit groupings ( to maybe like 25) and also tweak the way damage is distributed, it would change the game a lot and would make it a bit harder. I mean come on, if they at least went like "okay in silver/copper you can use everything provided in sc2 then in gold plat you can't use mbs then in diamond you can't use mass grouping and in master, you have to actually micro and so on" that would make the game more challenging and create a natural learning curve online (they can also use that in their single player missions to make it more interesting). People would WANT to get better, but now, the're promoting mediocrity. I remember there was a guy during the beta that created some "microable" units after blizzard failed with the phoenix and there were tons of suggestions. I don't know what happened but I wish that continued because right now, the only reason people play or promote this game is because they want to 1- become famous 2- want to make money 3- can only do that (ex-progamers , and it's not their fault, that's what the've been doing for a while and they need the cash) 4- new job opportunities (casters, streamers, etc) I might sound like a hater but I really just want this game to be exciting and fun. In the mean time, i play in the csl and with friends who don't know better, but most of the time i'm playing bw. Wow...that's actually the best thing I've ever read. Casual people who are in Bronze don't need to have super fundamentals and can use MBS / huge grouping / automining / etc, but in Masters you actually have to have skill and it reverts to the old style. Blizzard...nobody loses this way, and everyone wins... | ||
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onewingedmoogle
Canada434 Posts
there are comments on here saying that sc2 is still early in its release and that bw was not balanced at 6 months after release. it was a different world back then where people's opinions on games were not so easily communicated like we can now through tl, but i can firmly say that bw was never in a situation like sc2 where large numbers of ppl expressed such disappointment in it's entertainment value. when bw was released it was the fucking shit. it was a game anyone could learn to love to play. sc2 will never be enjoyed by the masses the way blizzard claims it wants it to. sc2 will never appeal to a viewing audience in competitive scenes when there are few who even enjoy playing the game to begin with. all the foreigners competing in sc2, i believe are only doing so because they have a competitive gaming background, and intend to find success in this game while blizzard is still willing to pour money into it and force it to become an esport. the competitors in sc2 play because of opportunity, not because they like the game or love to play it. i remember reading interviews of the old progamers, when they were asked why they decided to play starcraft. the uniform answer from all of them was, because it was fun. bw was a game built on by people who loved the game. in korea it was kids spending their time in pcbangs, playing the game and wanting to get good at it, even though there was no reward at all in sight. it saddens me greatly to concede my hopes and accept that sc2 will never be what we all wanted it to be. those experiences that gave me so much joy from playing the game to watching professionals showcasing their talents on the biggest stage possible, living out their dreams, are something that will remain exclusive to bw. | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
TANKS ARE TOO STRONG .. not imba .. but strong! unbelievable! + Show Spoiler ['why tanks are imba' you…] + because they were behind a depot wall | ||
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JiSu
Korea (South)140 Posts
On January 28 2011 00:31 Stratos_speAr wrote: No. Look back at BW 6 months from release is not a good fucking excuse. God damn it people need to stop saying this. Back then, Blizzard was a small, clueless company with not too many resources. Esports basically didn't exist, and people had no God damn clue on how to properly play an RTS. All of that is fixed now - Blizzard is massive and has tons of money and people can figure out games much more quickly. Your reason is the dumbest excuse. Just because they have more money now, that means they can make one of the most sophisticated game balanced in 6 months? Are you insane??? What does money have to with anything??? It's not easy to think of the most balanced maps. Some maps on iCCup I've played aren't balanced either. You might argue that with money they have a bigger team working on balance but I mean you NEED people who actually understand the game, its mechanics in order to fix balance issuse. And these people are the elite ones in the GSL. They need time/experience to see what is wrong with the game. if they want to make it balanced fast, like I said, make every single mechanics like BW and start from there. So then SC2 will just be anoher version of BW with some new units and better graphics. I also read somewhere that people say tanks are OP... It's not OP.. The smart targeting AI is. Again, everything is made simpler so average joes can play. That's why you don't see the UNLIMITED POTENTIAL like the thread maker said because you don't need to MANUALLY control the tanks anymore. Just let the AI do the thing. | ||
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