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3hatch spire -> 5hatch != 3hatch muta -> 5hatch hydra
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On January 26 2011 16:24 koreasilver wrote:
3hatch spire -> 5hatch != 3hatch muta -> 5hatch hydra
thank you for that moot point, I can tell from the way you responded you have no real basis or even a "rebuttal" thanks for playing.
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Zerg complains about scouting?
Wow...
I tried to learn Terran and was so mad at how I could not get to see a single damn thing on my opponent's base unless I used a scan.
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On January 26 2011 16:21 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 15:43 Dali. wrote:
My issue with PvZ comes in the form of this build. My opponent opens 3 gate expand into 6 gate pressure then dual robo collosus. He then takes a safe third and disallows me to multi-prong attack with roaches/lings. Then throws down some stargates, pump voids and maxs while getting neccesary ups (attack, defense and blink), he is more or less unkillable and forces me to engage an uber-death ball which i must trade a huge roach army while sniping collosus/voids then remax immediately on roaches and ensure I don't lose my exterior mining bases which are key once I spend my resource surplus. If I beat his army, its gg and pumping hive units ensures. However, any mistake while doing this I face death. I feel that there are very few windows to hit the protoss without mutas (which are difficult to justify considering the strength of 2 base gate way pushes). While there are many windows where he can hit me and do massive damage if I deviate from a roach/corrupter army.
Perhaps their are other approaches I need to investigate, put personally, this is the most solid/safe way to play I have found. Hopefully I can find an answer somewhere, but I'm struggling.
I think Zerg should be frustrated with the state of the game. We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. All the while, we walk a very thin line in engagements where we are almost guaranteed to lose fights or key positions if we allow the P or T to gain a foot hold near us: Think seige tanks guarded with minimal flanking positions while rines can continually poke at us (Shakuras rock guarded pathway between bases is a good example) or a Protoss ball that makes its way into an enclosed space near an expansion where forcefields gain maximum effectiveness. Being a reactive race, we usually need time to pump a final round of units when we see a push, so with short rush distances, it is really difficult to stall an opponents movement towards an advantages position without huge sacrifices.
Im sorry all I heard was blah blah blah I don't know how to play. You think starcraft was so easily figured out? For fucks sake people it took about 8 years before 3hatch muta->5 hatch hydra even came about and then another ~1.5 years before Protoss finally have a reasonable counter to it(corsair/zealot midgame push into storm/corsair/archons/reaver/zealot/goon). Fucking you shouldn't feel frustrated and instead you should be finding protoss practice partners and ironing out your builds/strategies. So fucking sick of this god damn whine bull shit.
Seriously? I was simply outlining a few reasons why Zerg players have felt hard done by. I wasn't intending to whine, just placing my perspective as a Zerg player on why there is a trend of QQ from my race. Time spent QQing would be better spent practicing.
But anyways, you're acting like an idiot and presented nothing of interest other than whine yourself. Manner up.
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On January 26 2011 16:25 Trowabarton756 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:24 koreasilver wrote:
3hatch spire -> 5hatch != 3hatch muta -> 5hatch hydra thank you for that moot point, I can tell from the way you responded you have no real basis or even a "rebuttal" thanks for playing.
Are you serious? There's a huge difference from opening 3hatch mutas and opening 3hatch spire -> 5hatch. This isn't just semantics. The fact that you don't even understand the difference is extremely disturbing for someone that supposedly watches BW.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 16:35 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:21 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 26 2011 15:43 Dali. wrote:
My issue with PvZ comes in the form of this build. My opponent opens 3 gate expand into 6 gate pressure then dual robo collosus. He then takes a safe third and disallows me to multi-prong attack with roaches/lings. Then throws down some stargates, pump voids and maxs while getting neccesary ups (attack, defense and blink), he is more or less unkillable and forces me to engage an uber-death ball which i must trade a huge roach army while sniping collosus/voids then remax immediately on roaches and ensure I don't lose my exterior mining bases which are key once I spend my resource surplus. If I beat his army, its gg and pumping hive units ensures. However, any mistake while doing this I face death. I feel that there are very few windows to hit the protoss without mutas (which are difficult to justify considering the strength of 2 base gate way pushes). While there are many windows where he can hit me and do massive damage if I deviate from a roach/corrupter army.
Perhaps their are other approaches I need to investigate, put personally, this is the most solid/safe way to play I have found. Hopefully I can find an answer somewhere, but I'm struggling.
I think Zerg should be frustrated with the state of the game. We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. All the while, we walk a very thin line in engagements where we are almost guaranteed to lose fights or key positions if we allow the P or T to gain a foot hold near us: Think seige tanks guarded with minimal flanking positions while rines can continually poke at us (Shakuras rock guarded pathway between bases is a good example) or a Protoss ball that makes its way into an enclosed space near an expansion where forcefields gain maximum effectiveness. Being a reactive race, we usually need time to pump a final round of units when we see a push, so with short rush distances, it is really difficult to stall an opponents movement towards an advantages position without huge sacrifices.
Im sorry all I heard was blah blah blah I don't know how to play. You think starcraft was so easily figured out? For fucks sake people it took about 8 years before 3hatch muta->5 hatch hydra even came about and then another ~1.5 years before Protoss finally have a reasonable counter to it(corsair/zealot midgame push into storm/corsair/archons/reaver/zealot/goon). Fucking you shouldn't feel frustrated and instead you should be finding protoss practice partners and ironing out your builds/strategies. So fucking sick of this god damn whine bull shit. Seriously? I was simply outlining a few reasons why Zerg players have felt hard done by. I wasn't intending to whine, just placing my perspective as a Zerg player on why there is a trend of QQ from my race. Time spent QQing would be better spent practicing. But anyways, you're acting like an idiot and presented nothing of interest other than whine yourself. Manner up.
Lol? Every race has its problems, there is nothing to "feel hard done by". Don't like it, switch races.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 16:48 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:25 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 26 2011 16:24 koreasilver wrote:
3hatch spire -> 5hatch != 3hatch muta -> 5hatch hydra thank you for that moot point, I can tell from the way you responded you have no real basis or even a "rebuttal" thanks for playing. Are you serious? There's a huge difference from opening 3hatch mutas and opening 3hatch spire -> 5hatch. This isn't just semantics. The fact that you don't even understand the difference is extremely disturbing for someone that supposedly watches BW.
It is just semantics, ITS A FUCKING STRATEGY THAT STILL DIDN'T ORIGINATE FOR A LONG TIME. You're trying to prove my point wrong by doing semantics(such as doing the spire for a few scourge to kill the initial scouting corsair versus muta harass, you're right on this one, my point is it still doesn't matter, BECAUSE THOSE FUCKING BUILDS HAVE BEEN FINE TUNED OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. Thank you for again proving nothing, zerg players just need to put in the hours because the only thing holding zergs back are themselves.
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It's not semantics when the builds are completely different and served different purposes in completely different timelines. You're mistaking a build that never really existed with a rather modern build that began to develop 2-3 years ago. This is a pretty big deal.
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On January 26 2011 17:00 koreasilver wrote:
It's not semantics when the builds are completely different and served different purposes in completely different timelines. You're mistaking a build that never really existed with a rather modern build that began to develop 2-3 years ago. This is a pretty big deal.
Lol? You're still clinging to shreds and still haven't disproven that these strategies aren't things that are made over night. I admited I may of mixed up the builds 2 posts above, yet you keep bringing it up like it has a variable in this equation, the truth is that it still took many years to develop and perfect and it was developed in response to bisu's style of FE with corsairs.
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On January 26 2011 16:57 Trowabarton756 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 16:35 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:21 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 26 2011 15:43 Dali. wrote:
My issue with PvZ comes in the form of this build. My opponent opens 3 gate expand into 6 gate pressure then dual robo collosus. He then takes a safe third and disallows me to multi-prong attack with roaches/lings. Then throws down some stargates, pump voids and maxs while getting neccesary ups (attack, defense and blink), he is more or less unkillable and forces me to engage an uber-death ball which i must trade a huge roach army while sniping collosus/voids then remax immediately on roaches and ensure I don't lose my exterior mining bases which are key once I spend my resource surplus. If I beat his army, its gg and pumping hive units ensures. However, any mistake while doing this I face death. I feel that there are very few windows to hit the protoss without mutas (which are difficult to justify considering the strength of 2 base gate way pushes). While there are many windows where he can hit me and do massive damage if I deviate from a roach/corrupter army.
Perhaps their are other approaches I need to investigate, put personally, this is the most solid/safe way to play I have found. Hopefully I can find an answer somewhere, but I'm struggling.
I think Zerg should be frustrated with the state of the game. We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. All the while, we walk a very thin line in engagements where we are almost guaranteed to lose fights or key positions if we allow the P or T to gain a foot hold near us: Think seige tanks guarded with minimal flanking positions while rines can continually poke at us (Shakuras rock guarded pathway between bases is a good example) or a Protoss ball that makes its way into an enclosed space near an expansion where forcefields gain maximum effectiveness. Being a reactive race, we usually need time to pump a final round of units when we see a push, so with short rush distances, it is really difficult to stall an opponents movement towards an advantages position without huge sacrifices.
Im sorry all I heard was blah blah blah I don't know how to play. You think starcraft was so easily figured out? For fucks sake people it took about 8 years before 3hatch muta->5 hatch hydra even came about and then another ~1.5 years before Protoss finally have a reasonable counter to it(corsair/zealot midgame push into storm/corsair/archons/reaver/zealot/goon). Fucking you shouldn't feel frustrated and instead you should be finding protoss practice partners and ironing out your builds/strategies. So fucking sick of this god damn whine bull shit. Seriously? I was simply outlining a few reasons why Zerg players have felt hard done by. I wasn't intending to whine, just placing my perspective as a Zerg player on why there is a trend of QQ from my race. Time spent QQing would be better spent practicing. But anyways, you're acting like an idiot and presented nothing of interest other than whine yourself. Manner up. Lol? Every race has its problems, there is nothing to "feel hard done by". Don't like it, switch races.
The problem I am referring to (lack of ability to be effectively aggressive) is one which is plagued many Zerg players and is the source of many feelings of unbalance/unfairness in race design. But if nothing changes, I will just stomach it and continue to improve under the circumstances.
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this is actually quiet interesting blog and i feel that a lot of people are sort of afraid of speaking out their personal pov because they understand the flack they will catch from 'the weakest race'
But this is obviously what happens to people, different experiences and different issues they are facing. Obviously everyone always tries to get better and while it might be easier to rake up wins as P or T it's equally hard to get better no matter what race you play.
The real problem most zergs are facing are not imbalances, but the lack of inspiration, the lack of heroes, the lack of victorious zergs that can give you motivation. It's like being a person of color in the early years of post segregated america. While you seem to have all the rights you need to be great on paper there is still a lack of observable success, and the same kind of hopeless feeling of being cornered.
I overdramatize but i hope you get the point.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 17:15 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:57 Trowabarton756 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 16:35 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:21 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 26 2011 15:43 Dali. wrote:
My issue with PvZ comes in the form of this build. My opponent opens 3 gate expand into 6 gate pressure then dual robo collosus. He then takes a safe third and disallows me to multi-prong attack with roaches/lings. Then throws down some stargates, pump voids and maxs while getting neccesary ups (attack, defense and blink), he is more or less unkillable and forces me to engage an uber-death ball which i must trade a huge roach army while sniping collosus/voids then remax immediately on roaches and ensure I don't lose my exterior mining bases which are key once I spend my resource surplus. If I beat his army, its gg and pumping hive units ensures. However, any mistake while doing this I face death. I feel that there are very few windows to hit the protoss without mutas (which are difficult to justify considering the strength of 2 base gate way pushes). While there are many windows where he can hit me and do massive damage if I deviate from a roach/corrupter army.
Perhaps their are other approaches I need to investigate, put personally, this is the most solid/safe way to play I have found. Hopefully I can find an answer somewhere, but I'm struggling.
I think Zerg should be frustrated with the state of the game. We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. All the while, we walk a very thin line in engagements where we are almost guaranteed to lose fights or key positions if we allow the P or T to gain a foot hold near us: Think seige tanks guarded with minimal flanking positions while rines can continually poke at us (Shakuras rock guarded pathway between bases is a good example) or a Protoss ball that makes its way into an enclosed space near an expansion where forcefields gain maximum effectiveness. Being a reactive race, we usually need time to pump a final round of units when we see a push, so with short rush distances, it is really difficult to stall an opponents movement towards an advantages position without huge sacrifices.
Im sorry all I heard was blah blah blah I don't know how to play. You think starcraft was so easily figured out? For fucks sake people it took about 8 years before 3hatch muta->5 hatch hydra even came about and then another ~1.5 years before Protoss finally have a reasonable counter to it(corsair/zealot midgame push into storm/corsair/archons/reaver/zealot/goon). Fucking you shouldn't feel frustrated and instead you should be finding protoss practice partners and ironing out your builds/strategies. So fucking sick of this god damn whine bull shit. Seriously? I was simply outlining a few reasons why Zerg players have felt hard done by. I wasn't intending to whine, just placing my perspective as a Zerg player on why there is a trend of QQ from my race. Time spent QQing would be better spent practicing. But anyways, you're acting like an idiot and presented nothing of interest other than whine yourself. Manner up. Lol? Every race has its problems, there is nothing to "feel hard done by". Don't like it, switch races. The problem I am referring to (lack of ability to be effectively aggressive) is one which is plagued many Zerg players and is the source of many feelings of unbalance/unfairness in race design. But if nothing changes, I will just stomach it and continue to improve under the circumstances.
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don't zergs have like 6/7pool and 7rr? That's pretty aggressive, see the "effective" part is what you make of it. There shouldn't be 1 build that you can just let the AI "effectively" be aggressive, it should rely on the player's micro/macro/timing abilities, you're essentially asking for free wins.
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What pisses me off are people blaming imbalance when they made stupid fucking decisions. You really shouldn't run your whole army straight into a siege tank line with PF's. I'm tired of explaining to these bitchy players why their 12 ultras died to 3/3 tanks on cliffs. It's not imbalance, you just don't know how to play.
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On January 26 2011 17:24 zerglingsfolife wrote:
What pisses me off are people blaming imbalance when they made stupid fucking decisions. You really shouldn't run your whole army straight into a siege tank line with PF's. I'm tired of explaining to these bitchy players why their 12 ultras died to 3/3 tanks on cliffs. It's not imbalance, you just don't know how to play.
This pretty much sums up a lot of the TvZ whinning I see ^^. How many people don't understand mech =\. I personally feel lucky as an outsider looking in considering i played SC for 10+ years.
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I think the majority of the complainers are current generation console gamers and WoW players. I never heard such bitching back in the day. It was always "I got owned/I have trouble with this, how do I deal with it."
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On January 26 2011 17:22 Sfydjklm wrote:
this is actually quiet interesting blog and i feel that a lot of people are sort of afraid of speaking out their personal pov because they understand the flack they will catch from 'the weakest race'
But this is obviously what happens to people, different experiences and different issues they are facing. Obviously everyone always tries to get better and while it might be easier to rake up wins as P or T it's equally hard to get better no matter what race you play.
The real problem most zergs are facing are not imbalances, but the lack of inspiration, the lack of heroes, the lack of victorious zergs that can give you motivation. It's like being a person of color in the early years of post segregated america. While you seem to have all the rights you need to be great on paper there is still a lack of observable success, and the same kind of hopeless feeling of being cornered.
I overdramatize but i hope you get the point.
I dunno if this is really an "eagles soaring above giving me hope" scenario. It really is just a case of frustration that has been echoed through the many ranks of zerg players: We simply have to do a lot more to win. Now this isn't a shot at the efforts of our Terrans or Protoss opponents, rather that their race provides a number of luxuries that ours don't. I don't think I need to outline them, they're well versed. With the current meta-game, we feel pigeonholed into a very restrictive and volatile early game followed by a mid-game with very similar restrictions. Coupled with this, we often times feel that we are unable to apply pressure to the Terran or Protoss especially through the once terrifying mutalisk.
I don't feel down on the zerg race and will never switch, but I think the nature of QQ comes from experiences of bad beats which often lack reasonable explanation.
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We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage.
Really? You guys have the best unit at pressuring, mutas. I can't leaving my base cause I'm afriad you'll come fuck it up. That lets you drone up. Even if I got turrets in my mineral line, you could pick shit off, hit my production buildings, pick off depos that I build for spotting at the edge of my base.
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On January 26 2011 17:23 Trowabarton756 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 17:15 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:57 Trowabarton756 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 16:35 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:21 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 26 2011 15:43 Dali. wrote:
My issue with PvZ comes in the form of this build. My opponent opens 3 gate expand into 6 gate pressure then dual robo collosus. He then takes a safe third and disallows me to multi-prong attack with roaches/lings. Then throws down some stargates, pump voids and maxs while getting neccesary ups (attack, defense and blink), he is more or less unkillable and forces me to engage an uber-death ball which i must trade a huge roach army while sniping collosus/voids then remax immediately on roaches and ensure I don't lose my exterior mining bases which are key once I spend my resource surplus. If I beat his army, its gg and pumping hive units ensures. However, any mistake while doing this I face death. I feel that there are very few windows to hit the protoss without mutas (which are difficult to justify considering the strength of 2 base gate way pushes). While there are many windows where he can hit me and do massive damage if I deviate from a roach/corrupter army.
Perhaps their are other approaches I need to investigate, put personally, this is the most solid/safe way to play I have found. Hopefully I can find an answer somewhere, but I'm struggling.
I think Zerg should be frustrated with the state of the game. We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. All the while, we walk a very thin line in engagements where we are almost guaranteed to lose fights or key positions if we allow the P or T to gain a foot hold near us: Think seige tanks guarded with minimal flanking positions while rines can continually poke at us (Shakuras rock guarded pathway between bases is a good example) or a Protoss ball that makes its way into an enclosed space near an expansion where forcefields gain maximum effectiveness. Being a reactive race, we usually need time to pump a final round of units when we see a push, so with short rush distances, it is really difficult to stall an opponents movement towards an advantages position without huge sacrifices.
Im sorry all I heard was blah blah blah I don't know how to play. You think starcraft was so easily figured out? For fucks sake people it took about 8 years before 3hatch muta->5 hatch hydra even came about and then another ~1.5 years before Protoss finally have a reasonable counter to it(corsair/zealot midgame push into storm/corsair/archons/reaver/zealot/goon). Fucking you shouldn't feel frustrated and instead you should be finding protoss practice partners and ironing out your builds/strategies. So fucking sick of this god damn whine bull shit. Seriously? I was simply outlining a few reasons why Zerg players have felt hard done by. I wasn't intending to whine, just placing my perspective as a Zerg player on why there is a trend of QQ from my race. Time spent QQing would be better spent practicing. But anyways, you're acting like an idiot and presented nothing of interest other than whine yourself. Manner up. Lol? Every race has its problems, there is nothing to "feel hard done by". Don't like it, switch races. The problem I am referring to (lack of ability to be effectively aggressive) is one which is plagued many Zerg players and is the source of many feelings of unbalance/unfairness in race design. But if nothing changes, I will just stomach it and continue to improve under the circumstances. ... don't zergs have like 6/7pool and 7rr? That's pretty aggressive, see the "effective" part is what you make of it. There shouldn't be 1 build that you can just let the AI "effectively" be aggressive, it should rely on the player's micro/macro/timing abilities, you're essentially asking for free wins.
Are you honestly suggesting that 6/7pool and 7rr are reasonable aggressive openings? I am talking about safe aggression, see: 2 rax, see non-allin 4 gates, banshee openings, hellion openings, phoenix openings. These are all things that allow a Terran and Protoss safe "in-zerg's-face" openings while maintaining a level of reasonable safety and macro follow up.
These openings work well especially because they can be easily hidden with correct patrolling and know the standard timings for overlord float bys. However a roach rush is very transparent on any map without a back door nat. It seems pretty evident that they are not verty effective considering how infrequently they have been seen in any state of professional play.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 17:52 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 17:23 Trowabarton756 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 17:15 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:57 Trowabarton756 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 26 2011 16:35 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 16:21 Trowabarton756 wrote:On January 26 2011 15:43 Dali. wrote:
My issue with PvZ comes in the form of this build. My opponent opens 3 gate expand into 6 gate pressure then dual robo collosus. He then takes a safe third and disallows me to multi-prong attack with roaches/lings. Then throws down some stargates, pump voids and maxs while getting neccesary ups (attack, defense and blink), he is more or less unkillable and forces me to engage an uber-death ball which i must trade a huge roach army while sniping collosus/voids then remax immediately on roaches and ensure I don't lose my exterior mining bases which are key once I spend my resource surplus. If I beat his army, its gg and pumping hive units ensures. However, any mistake while doing this I face death. I feel that there are very few windows to hit the protoss without mutas (which are difficult to justify considering the strength of 2 base gate way pushes). While there are many windows where he can hit me and do massive damage if I deviate from a roach/corrupter army.
Perhaps their are other approaches I need to investigate, put personally, this is the most solid/safe way to play I have found. Hopefully I can find an answer somewhere, but I'm struggling.
I think Zerg should be frustrated with the state of the game. We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. All the while, we walk a very thin line in engagements where we are almost guaranteed to lose fights or key positions if we allow the P or T to gain a foot hold near us: Think seige tanks guarded with minimal flanking positions while rines can continually poke at us (Shakuras rock guarded pathway between bases is a good example) or a Protoss ball that makes its way into an enclosed space near an expansion where forcefields gain maximum effectiveness. Being a reactive race, we usually need time to pump a final round of units when we see a push, so with short rush distances, it is really difficult to stall an opponents movement towards an advantages position without huge sacrifices.
Im sorry all I heard was blah blah blah I don't know how to play. You think starcraft was so easily figured out? For fucks sake people it took about 8 years before 3hatch muta->5 hatch hydra even came about and then another ~1.5 years before Protoss finally have a reasonable counter to it(corsair/zealot midgame push into storm/corsair/archons/reaver/zealot/goon). Fucking you shouldn't feel frustrated and instead you should be finding protoss practice partners and ironing out your builds/strategies. So fucking sick of this god damn whine bull shit. Seriously? I was simply outlining a few reasons why Zerg players have felt hard done by. I wasn't intending to whine, just placing my perspective as a Zerg player on why there is a trend of QQ from my race. Time spent QQing would be better spent practicing. But anyways, you're acting like an idiot and presented nothing of interest other than whine yourself. Manner up. Lol? Every race has its problems, there is nothing to "feel hard done by". Don't like it, switch races. The problem I am referring to (lack of ability to be effectively aggressive) is one which is plagued many Zerg players and is the source of many feelings of unbalance/unfairness in race design. But if nothing changes, I will just stomach it and continue to improve under the circumstances. ... don't zergs have like 6/7pool and 7rr? That's pretty aggressive, see the "effective" part is what you make of it. There shouldn't be 1 build that you can just let the AI "effectively" be aggressive, it should rely on the player's micro/macro/timing abilities, you're essentially asking for free wins. Are you honestly suggesting that 6/7pool and 7rr are reasonable aggressive openings? I am talking about safe aggression, see: 2 rax, see non-allin 4 gates, banshee openings, hellion openings, phoenix openings. These are all things that allow a Terran and Protoss safe "in-zerg's-face" openings while maintaining a level of reasonable safety and macro follow up. These openings work well especially because they can be easily hidden with correct patrolling and know the standard timings for overlord float bys. However a roach rush is very transparent on any map without a back door nat. It seems pretty evident that they are not verty effective considering how infrequently they have been seen in any state of professional play.
there is no such thing as safe aggression, 4-gate albeit "economical" is still 4-gates...on 1 base, meaning you have very little opportunity to tech or expand unless you skip units...
as far as 2-rax clearly Z is underpowered considering 90% of terrans in the last GSL have scv/marine all-in'd like crazy with the reasoning being that zerg is unstoppable late-game. you either get a defensive build or a offensive build, you never get both.
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On January 26 2011 17:46 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +We feel unable to execute pressure while remaining in control of a strong economy and a safe fall back if we don't succeed in doing damage. Really? You guys have the best unit at pressuring, mutas. I can't leaving my base cause I'm afriad you'll come fuck it up. That lets you drone up. Even if I got turrets in my mineral line, you could pick shit off, hit my production buildings, pick off depos that I build for spotting at the edge of my base.
This is true vs terran to a certain extent. Turrets just aren't cost effective to pick off until a certain number of mutas is reached. However by this point Thors are commonly placed in or around mineral lines, effective making cost effective "sniping" (stacked balled) unthinkable. Usually when a terran pushes out, I will take a very brief swipe at their base, but usually I have to arrange my forces (banes, surrounds, flanks, hotkeys etc) as if I mess up my defense I will be very dead. As for mutas in ZvP, they're getting rare. 6 gate timings pack too much punch and the muta ball + lings is not enough to take it on. This coupled with phoenix buff makes Mutas a gamble. The best usage I've seen was Zenios super fast spire vs cannon expand. But that was different to the situation that many Zergs face.
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United States996 Posts
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EPT
