On January 13 2011 02:01 Inori wrote: Why, Blizzard, why do you keep catering to casual players?:/
Statistically, most players are casual players. Blizzard makes more money selling the game to casual players than it does fostering competition in the top ranks (who, admittadly, inspire a few more casual players to buy the game as well).
On the side note, I think there's always going to be a huge skill gap at both the top and bottom. Top level diamond do some of the most amazing play I've ever seen while I (in my gold league glory) could probably take down a few lower level Diamonds. I see it as the top of the ladder increasing much faster than the bottom of Diamond.
With Bronze it's a little different. The league ranges players who have no idea what they're doing to those who have broad strategies and a little bit of practice. As the climate of the game changes and people get better, then the ceiling to get out of bronze (and the rest of the leagues) increases. It reminds me of my uber-noob days in iccup where I played at D level barely understanding a build order to, a year later, remaining in D yet understanding the strategies and being very well-practiced. No one WANTS to be in the lowest league, so I feel the best way to circumvent the issue is put a lot of people into it.
However, I agree that the highest league should have a set cap instead of a percentage of players. Maybe that will be fixed with grandmasters?
On January 13 2011 03:08 Kalingingsong wrote: ultimately it just means ppl who are 'hard core' just have to work around these problems (such as ranking systems geared towards casual gamers). if something like sc2ranks can track wins and losses, I don't see why better players can eventually create their own ranking system that uses different calculations etc...
It doesn't track who you beat and who you lose to.
Just sayin'- this is why people say TeamLiquid forums are silly elitist. When people start talking about the top 2% as 'casual players,' you've officially lost all perspective. Whenever I read something like this it seems like a very thinly veiled brag blog. Honestly, I think it's waaaaay less obnoxious to say "Everyone look at me, I got Masters," than it is to get on a forum and say "Yeah, I got masters in one game, but I don't care because it's easy."
How can you seriously say that the top 2% of the players are casuals? And then go on a rant how it is to easy getting into masters and how it is to hard to get into GM for you to bother...
If you want a higher goal aim for #1 in your division or something, if you manage that aim for GM.
Master league is the top 2%, this does not mean that the players in that league is amazing, it just means that there is a shitload of casual players that are no where near that. If you are not a casual gamer, getting to Master league would be a good starting goal, since you already made that aim higher.
I think Inori's main point is not about the actual skill level of diamond vs masters (vs GM). Rather, he's saying that he's disappointed that he does not need to devote any serious time to practice and improvement in order to achieve a masters league placement. He's already given the ITF/chess examples above. I would also like to add an example from ICCup ladder. It took Koll two years to reach B rank on ICCup and he was considered a prodigy for it. Most people would be happy to reach C rank in that time, but regardless of what rank you actually reached, you would be extremely proud of having worked so hard and being rewarded for your work. Inori was hoping for a similar experience on the SC2 ladder with the introduction of the master league and was let down when he was immediately placed into it.
The problem with saying "just get into GM league then" is that the amount of dedication required is vastly different because GM vs masters is essentially professional vs (high level) amateur. GM league is going to be only the top 200 in each region. This is pretty much pro-gamer level, as a fair number of top 200 players get contracted into teams. Inori doesn't have the time to be a professional, he just wants there to be a competitive amateur level that takes an appropriate level of work and dedication to reach.
they should bring catering to everyone really. I am so hungry, and they just aren't catering me enough. I really think that they should apply a catering filter; bring catering to all guys with red hair. imo. because, it will be fast and other reasons.
Also remember that the only people that played iccup were people who were interested enough in the game already to find out what iccup was. D+ iccup was so elite compared to most people who owned the game of starcraft.
On January 13 2011 02:09 Saechiis wrote: Wait for the GRAND MASTER league.
Like I said, I'm not good/active enough to get into gm. But I'm still competitive enough to actually want a challenge and something I could be proud of getting into. Not this..
LOL, so you're not good enough for Grandmaster league so you want a league harder than Master League and easier than GM league to get into?
How can you complain that blizzard is catering to casuals when YOU'RE ASKING THEM TO CATER TO YOU, NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO BE TOP 200.
On January 13 2011 02:09 Saechiis wrote: Wait for the GRAND MASTER league.
Like I said, I'm not good/active enough to get into gm. But I'm still competitive enough to actually want a challenge and something I could be proud of getting into. Not this..
You don't think you could get into grand masters, but think masters is too easy? You seem kind of difficult to please. Just get to the top of your masters division so you're ranked top 200 on the server and you'll get into grand masters.
exalted and Jonoman92, you guys should probably read the whole thread before posting. At least, please read my most recent post and maybe you will actually understand what he's talking about.
His point is stupid. He's saying "stop catering to casuals" but he's pissed that Blizzard isn't putting a worthy carrot in front of his face. What else could be more similar to catering to casuals? What he's suggesting is like achievements to casuals--he needs the game to reward his gain in skill or he doesn't even want to play. Why do you think divisions should be made to cater to you? That's not the point of them. There is a "competitive amateur level" out there, it's just not one of the divisions; so what?
Also how ridiculous is it to dismiss everyone below you by saying "yeah to get to where I am is trivially easy... but if you wanna get any better it's basically impossible!"
You don't think you could get into grand masters, but think masters is too easy? You seem kind of difficult to please. Just get to the top of your masters division so you're ranked top 200 on the server and you'll get into grand masters.
there should be a "doctor" level above the "master" level. in order to get in, you have to have a 'female companion' as being good at the game hehe.
alright this is getting to me, everytime i see the word "masters" , I can't help but think:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of all the blogs and threads about the disappointment with Masters League, or just generally talking about it.
OP, you clearly must be doing some correct and have some skills you're unaware of if you got placed into Masters so easily. I don't know anyone else who's gotten into Masters League that easily, so.
On January 14 2011 04:34 Raeleigh wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of all the blogs and threads about the disappointment with Masters League, or just generally talking about it.
OP, you clearly must be doing some correct and have some skills you're unaware of if you got placed into Masters so easily. I don't know anyone else who's gotten into Masters League that easily, so.
Alternatively, everyone I know is getting placed into Master's League.
These are probably C-/C high on iCCUP I am happy for them, but getting promoted after 1-2 games is a little eh in terms of Master League's function, or lack thereof.
On January 14 2011 04:34 Raeleigh wrote: Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of all the blogs and threads about the disappointment with Masters League, or just generally talking about it.
OP, you clearly must be doing some correct and have some skills you're unaware of if you got placed into Masters so easily. I don't know anyone else who's gotten into Masters League that easily, so.
Alternatively, everyone I know is getting placed into Master's League.
These are probably C-/C high on iCCUP I am happy for them, but getting promoted after 1-2 games is a little eh in terms of Master League's function, or lack thereof.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm pretty sure no one on my friends list has gotten into ML. And quite a few are like OMG awesome. @_@
I'm masters league and it's gay. I miss my old diamond division of idra/select/tt1/drewbie... now I'm in a scrub division and my points are so much lower... dunno where anyone stands anymore. totally makes laddering unappealing to me I'm just playing customs for my practice now, screw this convoluted ladder system, what ever happened to iccups system that was fine...
On January 14 2011 08:34 LuckyFool wrote: I'm masters league and it's gay. I miss my old diamond division of idra/select/tt1/drewbie... now I'm in a scrub division and my points are so much lower... dunno where anyone stands anymore. totally makes laddering unappealing to me I'm just playing customs for my practice now, screw this convoluted ladder system, what ever happened to iccups system that was fine...
I don't understand why people get so upset that they're not in the same league as idra/select/drewbie anymore. Yeah, it means the level of play is higher, and OH BOY YOU MIGHT GET YOU PLAY THEM!!~!~!~!!!! But like..
Unless you're as good as them, you're going to be lower in the Masters League compared to them. =/
EPT
![[image loading]](http://fountaindaleasd.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/themasters3.png)
I am happy for them, but getting promoted after 1-2 games is a little eh in terms of Master League's function, or lack thereof.
