• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 22:49
CEST 04:49
KST 11:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-66SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)11Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 2/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week
Tourneys
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
[Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3044 users

How to think about APM - Page 2

Blogs > Seltsam
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
BruceLee6783
Profile Joined March 2007
United States196 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-21 09:46:13
December 21 2010 09:45 GMT
#21
On December 21 2010 18:33 KwarK wrote:
I don't think it works that way. I believe that a high apm player and a low apm player take the exact same length of time to enter in a familiar sequence of commands. There's a limit to how fast you can do 1a2a3a and both players' fingers should know it well enough to do it at pretty much touch typing speed. The difference between low apm and high apm players is not how fast they can deal with the situations they are presented with but rather what they do, and how effiicently they do it, between those situations.



You need to be more considerate of reaction time. You need to account for awareness, based on how fast they are switching between battles and macroing.
You have enemies? Good. It means you stood up for something.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 21 2010 09:47 GMT
#22
I will admit that APM is an indicator of skill. Not the average but the current(?) one.
You might see people spamming or not in the beginning but if your current APM is high means you are able to take on multiple commands at the same time meaning you can handle multitasking well so you're better off handling a lot of situations with efficiency whereas with low APM you'd be doing everything slower. It doesn't always mean that more is better. Just that more in this case means you can do more actions in deciding how you use those actions.

I'm now at 150-180 APM when I macro and multitask and before I rerolled to Terran I was at 90 APM just micro'ing stuff. Having better mechanics will usually mean as a side effect that your APM will increase in activity due to mechanics (maybe not on average but current should be).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
December 21 2010 11:54 GMT
#23
I can be very fast when i actually think fast enough and in advance, so in my case when i play with higher APM = i think faster and more in advance. When my apm dropping, it is signal that i don't think fast enough or clearly - means i don't have 100% decision making which is the most important thing in SC.

However i have beaten people with 350 apm before and i am only 200-250 so the apm isn't the only skill factor. Also i have games where 130 - 170 apm players owned me....Personally i find apm very important as it shows my decision making and speed of thinking.

Also everybody can click really fast with mouse, but they usually don't. I tried to focus on clicking very fast with my mouse and it is really possible to click double or triple your normal speed. Also if you have problems with accuracy, try to focus on the outcome of the action you are performing and not actually about hitting accurate with your mouse and the accuracy will come by itself - that works for me. When i focus on accuracy i am slow as fuck and actually less accurate.

Keyboard speed is another topic though. I think it is only about the practice and speed of your hand on the keyboard. Also accuracy is the most important here - nothing worse then trying to hit a key and miss it 2-3 times. That just throws you of the game so much.
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
Metalwing
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Turkey1038 Posts
December 21 2010 12:26 GMT
#24
APM isn't the measurement unit of skill but the reflection of skill, the side effect. When you burrow damaged roaches in a battle while injecting and spending larvae or sending your queen to your ramp when hellions came while also sending your drones at your expo to your main and also not fucking up your build order and macro, this is of course reflected in your apm.

If you look at the replay, you see your apm as 150+ at an instant when you inject your hatcheries, spread your creep tumors, spend your larvae, poke the front of your opponent and pull your lings when marines fire at them and send 2 lings at each xel'naga tower (2nd ling is your friend when there is a marine at the tower). Your high apm is not the reason, but the result of it.

Yeah, early game apm doesn't matter that much. Yes, it does to some extent, but it only helps you get zergling speed 1-2 seconds faster or 1-2 seconds faster expansion hatchery, that's it. It can easily be neglected in the further part of the game.
#1 CheckPrime fan // Terrans gonna Terran
Seltsam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States343 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-21 16:15:54
December 21 2010 15:57 GMT
#25
Also, APM spamming is a good warmup.

I play guitar, and if I'm about to binge on SC2 ladder or play some custom 1v1s or even team games, I actually like to play a few scales. It warms up my hands and gets my left hand working much better (I am right-handed). Also, a lot of people talk about rhythm in an SC2 game and I definitely believe that rhythm is a big part of keeping yourself going at a constant rate and returning to doing "the most normal thing in the world" (day9 quote for ya!), and doing scales helps me a lot with that too. I have some pretty weird practice methods though. Usually when I recommend them to people, they either don't want to do them or try them and find them useless. But hey, it works for me, so I'mma keep doin' it.

APM spam definitely has its uses, but in my experience, skill yields high APM (in terms of actually utilized APM), but high APM does not yield skill.



You can't do 2 things at once, right? So the way I see it, APM is the result of shoving actions as close together as possible, and that's one of the reasons games like SC2 have no real skill ceiling -- skill would only theoretically cap when a player can do multiple actions simultaneously (example: executing stop-shoot marine micro against banelings while building workers, dropping mules, building a command center, building units, and starting upgrades precisely simultaneously). Since such a feat is physically not possible, a player can get infinitely closer to a 0 second delay between actions (which would result in an incalculably high APM). So APM is mostly just a measurement of how close you can get to simultaneous actions without ever actually achieving it. Obviously speed is just one factor in skill, so the way I figure, APM is a product of one aspect of the game. In other words, It's completely superficial.
Team Limited ftw! www.teamltd.net
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
December 21 2010 16:12 GMT
#26
Don't tell me how to think!

This is thoughtcrime!
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Seltsam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States343 Posts
December 21 2010 16:21 GMT
#27
On December 22 2010 01:12 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Don't tell me how to think!

This is thoughtcrime!


If you don't want me to tell you how to think, you really just have the one option:

Click faster!
Team Limited ftw! www.teamltd.net
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
December 21 2010 16:27 GMT
#28
On December 22 2010 01:21 Seltsam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2010 01:12 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Don't tell me how to think!

This is thoughtcrime!


If you don't want me to tell you how to think, you really just have the one option:

Click faster!


Wait....................

You lost me there. I'm already known for overspamming. :D
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Seltsam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States343 Posts
December 21 2010 16:36 GMT
#29
On December 22 2010 01:27 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2010 01:21 Seltsam wrote:
On December 22 2010 01:12 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Don't tell me how to think!

This is thoughtcrime!


If you don't want me to tell you how to think, you really just have the one option:

Click faster!


Wait....................

You lost me there. I'm already known for overspamming. :D


No! APM is everything.
Team Limited ftw! www.teamltd.net
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-21 16:55:02
December 21 2010 16:51 GMT
#30
APM is a reliable way of looking at your own improvement (because you can be honest about where you're spending your APM and other issues with your game). It's not a reliable measure of another person's skill. I wouldn't even go so far as to say it reflects another person's skill at all. Low APM is an issue at the high levels, but high APM players exist at all levels of the ladder. In other words you can tell a person sucks if they have 40 APM, but you can't tell if a person is good if they have 250 APM. The latter only tells you that they've been playing long enough to spam... IE: They aren't b.net noob bad, but that's all you eliminate. They can still be from D-A and thus it's not really useful. Likewise, 150 APM is still enough for A level play.

PS: The OP is completely redundant if you just do a search on APM. I'm putting the argument into the context of 2010, but you will find just about every argument that can be made about APM in a simple search. The farther back you go the more people will talk about FishEYE lol.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Crackensan
Profile Joined August 2010
United States479 Posts
December 21 2010 19:47 GMT
#31
When i started seriously playing SC2 on release, my APM was dismal, like around 20 in game APM.

Since, it's gone up to about 80ish, spiking to 200 in battles/macro/dealing with ???? situations.

So I've improved, to be sure, my play has tightened and I can measure it to a small extent on how my apm is improving. It's kinda plateaued at this point, but it's making increases slowly as I practice more.
Tasteless: "Well this strategy is made of balls"--Concerning Fruitdealer Vs. BoXeR
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#93
PiGStarcraft625
CranKy Ducklings96
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft625
RuFF_SC2 137
Ketroc 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4144
GuemChi 2648
Calm 761
Artosis 653
Bale 18
Terrorterran 12
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
summit1g10200
Coldzera 1106
minikerr160
Other Games
Fnx 721
JimRising 556
C9.Mang0464
Maynarde131
JuggernautJason99
ViBE84
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1152
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 61
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 53
• davetesta33
• mYiSmile115
• Mapu11
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP9
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo208
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 11m
Kung Fu Cup
8h 11m
Replay Cast
21h 11m
The PondCast
1d 7h
INu's Battles
1d 8h
Percival vs Cure
Classic vs Clem
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Escore
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-03
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.