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I was recently accused of favoring a certain high level bm zerg player. I am of course speaking of EG's own Idra.
I admit I do secretively root for particular players, however in my casts I generally try to let my bias lean exclusively towards good play.
That being said, I do not defend Idra's bm behavior, however I will irrevocably say that Idra is good for starcraft 2.
In order to explain my stance I will need to explain my own views of competition at large.
It is my personal belief that the saying "It is not whether you win or lose but how you play the game" is entirely true.
You can determine the worth of competition by motivation and you can tell motivation by a players behavior.
Its probably at this stage where everyone is going AH-HAH! IDRA IS BM WHICH SHOWS BADDDD MOTIVATION!
Maybe....
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i5SF0.png)
A content related picture to break up the wall of text and maybe make you think about actually read everything around it.
I have seen many different motivations for competition.
There are those that play simply to make others miserable. There are those that play to prove they are better than everyone else. There are those that play simply to vent frustration at the world around them. There are those who play so that they can laugh.
It is my personal belief that most honorable motivation is a simple test of character and capacity. The players that play to test and improve themselves and those around them. While there are those that would prefer to be big fish in a small pond, these individuals venture out into the ocean to see how far they can go. They face their own internal fear of failure. They learn to learn from their losses. They learn to not overestimate their own strengths.
I believe that these individuals welcome strong competition because they know it will only drive them and those around them further higher and farther.
I idealistically believe that these individuals represent "true champions" and they will be inevitably fleshed out through the sweat blood and tears of fierce competition. I cast for the pursuit of these individuals.
Now Idra is without a doubt strong competition. He raises the bar in the foreigner scene. Regardless of his behavior he is a fantastic player. The foreigner starcraft scene needs more Idras because strong competition reveals champions.
I would argue that tournaments are nothing more than a method of flushing out the current avatar of the collective efforts of the players, but I don't want to get into a "State of the Game" argument about mlg bracket structure. Perhaps some other time.
Now many have said that Idra is in fact overrated.
They point to his many commentated losses on youtube and the recent thrashing at the hands of Tyler (aka Nony).
First of all let me say that as far as I can tell Idra never releases replays of his victories. Most likely because he wants to maintain a competitive edge (I assume Tyler does the same).
I learned this the hard way as I tried desperately to find a long drawn out macro fight featuring high level zerg players. I very quickly realized that every replay featuring Idra outside of mlg resulted in an Idra loss. It was almost a spoiler downloading the replay itself.
This is understandable. Players want to showcase their skill. Idra is confident/competitive enough to not resort to this so its difficult to find a balanced Idra replay.
However the fact that a large majority of these games were rated artificially high in comparison to other games perturbs me. In addition I regularly see streams of text belittling Idra's capacities.
Its OK to dislike Idra due to his behavior, but do not be so blinded that you ignore his capacity as a player. To do so only cheapens the scene at large.
![[image loading]](http://www.mymym.com/gfx/IdrA1MYM.jpg)
Glorified Idra picture for effect
People point to Idra's losses to Nony as evidence of his lack of skill. This is taking HUGEEEEE credit from Nony. Nony classically has had some of the strongest PvZ outside of Korea. He simply understands the matchup. He almost made it through courage in his first run! He fielded builds against Idra that were later emulated to the destruction of a lot of Zerg. To say Idra is overrated because he lost to Nony is insulting to the community at large.
I appeal to everyone who reads this post, please keep hating Idra, distain his bm behavior, watch every game he plays and root for his opponent, however do not insult his ability as a starcraft player simply because you dislike him! Give credit where credit is due.
 
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I agree, everyone does have a favorite player and there is no one in this world who are "completely" unbiased. I personally have not seen any of your casts or anything but I do agree with your points.
Personally I think IdrA does have his angry moments but people lash at him as much as he lashes at people.
AS for losses. Starcraft is a hard game. Even if you are "the best player in the world" you still lose games once in awhile. Nony is obviously one of the better players, he has great game sense talent. As for IdrA's lose at MLG to Nazgul. I like to say Nazgul played good instead of saying IdrA played bad.
Me personally am not a big fan of threads such as this one which end up fueling the fire.
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i dont follow sc2 progaming very much, but idra has always been considered good, and so has nony.
obviously there are other good players around now.
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He made gls all three times, only haters say he isn't good. Mostly I respect his play of trying to reduce the luck in his builds. It takes a very solid player (although maybe lacking creativity) to win simply off of macro builds all the time. And more importantly he does it with everyone knowing that he isn't going to cheese.
As far as his bm, it does add some excitement (see jason lee's opinion).
P.S. the pictures helped diggity :D
P.P.S. I dont think your casts are bias
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Another thing people dont usually talk about or maybe Ive missed it is giving credit to IdrA for his love and dedication to this game, look how long he's survived in Korea and how he managed to stay and never complain much about living in a progaming house where he dont speak the language... I admire him for staying in CJ for so long and working hard at being a good player... everyone has personalities and he's bm and he knows it... I dunno why people rage so much over him being bm, hes been like this forever, how can people not get used to it?
I think he has hella dedication and love for this game which people should look up to, not everyone would be so strong minded like him, imo...
What do you think?
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I didn't read all of it, but really, there's nothing wrong with picking a side when casting a game, at least if you don't let it cloud your analysis.
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it is OK if u r a fan of a player. even if u cast, u can be a fan of a player. but u must not let fanship make ur commentaries biased. if u need some help being fair balanced casts and not being 2 biased to idra, check out some experienced casters like husky or HD, they do a good job of being excited about both players usually
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Haha baller is right, you should try and learn something from husky and/or HD 
IdrA <3
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Canada2480 Posts
I belive diggity actually has more experience then HD and Husky (including his BW years)
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yo, diggity has been casting for years now. I watch both hd and husky but IMO diggity is a much better caster.
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On November 20 2010 10:47 Gaius Romanus wrote:
yo, diggity has been casting for years now. I watch both hd and husky but IMO diggity is a much better caster.
caster is like women, some fans like 1 caster some fans like other. u cannot say 1 is better or worse bc its personal opinions (other than subscriber #s). but this blog not about comparing caster, its about diggity and idra, plz dont turn it into another debate.
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First of all let me say that as far as I can tell Idra never releases replays of his victories.
Or his opponents only release their wins against him...
I agree that bm doesn't necessarily mean bad, but isn't that totally obvious?
People point to Idra's losses to Nony as evidence of his lack of skill. This is taking HUGEEEEE credit from Nony. Nony classically has had some of the strongest PvZ outside of Korea. He simply understands the matchup. He almost made it through courage in his first run!
1. I hate how you generalize throughout this post. You're directing it at the few there are way too many of. But they're really not worth mentioning imo. - You main point of post does not reflect a general understanding of the issue.
2. You simply cannot compare bw pvz to sc2 pvz and Tyler's bw pvz skills has no say in how is doing in sc2 in that specific matchup.
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This is a great, definitive IdrA defense thread. Thanks Diggity! I've been getting really tired of all the "lol BM idra!!! lololol" comments on every game. Hopefully this blog will lessen that.
I casted a ladder game with IdrA once because I thought it showed some cool PvZ and most of the comments were about how IdrA didn't GG. :/
edit: Thanks for creating your "how to record SC2 and other games" video on youtube, Diggity btw! It was hugely helpful to me!
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I don't see how anyone can discredit Idra's skill.
only foreigner to qualify for all 3 GSLs,advanced the farthest of any foreigner in both GSLs (Tied TLO in GSL1), winner of MLG DC, runner up at IEM europe (the one with Morrows reapers), winner of the KOTB, and beat Huk pretty badly in EG laptop finals match.
honestly considering how rapidly the game changes (like the foxer style TvZ, the goofy ass ZvZ matchup that no one knows what to do in, and the emergence of all these really aggressive/good PvZ builds) its amazing how consistently Idra gives people the business.
im a pretty big fanboy though so what do I know
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Honestly, I don't see a problem here at all.
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has he really been that bm in sc2?
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On November 20 2010 10:00 Diggity wrote:
First of all let me say that as far as I can tell Idra never releases replays of his victories. Most likely because he wants to maintain a competitive edge (I assume Tyler does the same).
I learned this the hard way as I tried desperately to find a long drawn out macro fight featuring high level zerg players. I very quickly realized that every replay featuring Idra outside of mlg resulted in an Idra loss. It was almost a spoiler downloading the replay itself.
Wow I didn't realize that. Has anyone (ie Artosis or IdrA) confirmed this? You have me really curious now.
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Yup I agree with this 100%. A lot of people say Idra is over rated (and I still laugh everytime someone says it I mean as a foreigner he's done more in tournaments then any other foreigner so far). He is a good player and I honestly do believe he can hold his own against top top korean players.
Thanks for the Blog was a great read :D
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the ratings for reality shows with hated contestants (e.g. Omarosa on The Apprentice) always have 1/3 to 1/2 higher ratings than the same show after they are kicked off.
for better or for worse, bad manners are entertaining and if you want good ratings you need them sometimes. in esports, consider yourself lucky that your Omarosa is someone who has earned their position, rather than just cast in a role as a troublemaker for nothing other than entertainment.
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It's true. I hate when I see people harping on about how Idra is "overrated" or just a plain bad player, when they're simply basing these assumptions off the bad mannerisms they see from Idra. The way you act in a game towards a person, is not necessarily indicative of your skill level. I think Idra's strong success in competition, particular in GSL, MLG etc. is a pretty strong testament to his skill as a player, and even things like listening to him on podcasts, or when he did a sample cast in GSL2 was a real showcase of his knowledge and indepth understanding of the game itself. He's not some fucking lower level diamond, he knows his shit and he knows how to play his game.
I find his bm entertaining to be honest, people who vent about how it's disgusting, rude, gives a bad name to e-sports.. any publicity is good publicity. And sc2 NEEDS publicity. Every sport has its heroes, and they have their villains. It's these rivalries and excitement which make for a better viewing experience. Sure it's great to see two people being polite and honourable, and playing out a great match, but seeing a darker, ruder side to a player is just as exciting, and hilarious honestly.
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Great article Diggity! I dislike Idra's behavior at times, although of late, he's been super good for the community publicly. I'm not sure if privately during his ladder games he's not, but i cant confirm or deny this.
There are two main reasons I root for Idra. One is because he represents the foreigner community and took the cracks of a B-team progamer, which few people have been able to duplicate. The other is because as a zerg player, the ways that Idra loses are the same ways I lose. There are very few games where Idra is outmacro'd, although i bet they do exist. When he loses it's because he didn't account for this or that, or there was hidden tech, or hidden expo, or X-unit that happens to crush his composition. As a normal run-of-the-mill diamond NA player that's EXACTLY how i lose! It's frustrating and infuriating. In that way, he really does represent myself, but on a pro level.
Another thing is that his confidence and work ethic are admirable. People rant about that he hasn't won that many 1st place titles, but has anyone yet? I don't think you can say that any one player, Korean or foreigner that has really dominated as much as their fans would like.
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On November 20 2010 10:00 Diggity wrote:
First of all let me say that as far as I can tell Idra never releases replays of his victories. Most likely because he wants to maintain a competitive edge (I assume Tyler does the same).
I learned this the hard way as I tried desperately to find a long drawn out macro fight featuring high level zerg players. I very quickly realized that every replay featuring Idra outside of mlg resulted in an Idra loss. It was almost a spoiler downloading the replay itself.
On November 20 2010 16:07 gotlucky wrote:
Wow I didn't realize that. Has anyone (ie Artosis or IdrA) confirmed this? You have me really curious now.
Several months ago Artosis made an interview with Idra on behalf of his fanclub, with questions collected by us. When asked whether he plans to start releasing replays at all, he said he's not going to and he never has because he doesn't want people to see how he plays and that usually people who publish replays are just bragging anyway.
People point to Idra's losses to Nony as evidence of his lack of skill. This is taking HUGEEEEE credit from Nony. Nony classically has had some of the strongest PvZ outside of Korea. He simply understands the matchup. He almost made it through courage in his first run! He fielded builds against Idra that were later emulated to the destruction of a lot of Zerg.
It was not just Tyler's build. The whole Liquid clan had been preparing strategies aimed at Idra specifically during their preparation for MLG.
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Fuck the haters, don't hate if you can't cross. That's what I think. This is IdrA or anyone else. That does NOT FUCKING MATTER. Keep your ideas about his gameplay or BM for himself, or try to teach him on the hard way. Because "ZOMG I hate idra he's so bm and he always insults us, the terran players" is just not good any more.
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I think Idra spends his concentration way too much on macro, and that is a huge weakness. You match another pure macro player up against him, yeah he has a good chance to win. And in this day and age that's what most B-teamers are, and that's what everyone in the foreign community is looking at when they see top level play. But when you see a smart player duke it out with Idra, or even a player who just knows there is more to SC than macro, you see Idra lose to some stuff he really shouldn't be for someone who is so glorified by Artosis.
I think Idra is extremely skilled at macro, but I don't think he's a well rounded player which in my own subjective definition of the term, is not a good player. Hopefully he'll be in a game house with a smart player who speaks English and can teach him the value of other parts of the game.
Edit: I don't even care about Idra BM. I might not have thought much of it in the beginning when he was a nobody, but now that it is kind of his thing, it's hard to go back now. I don't even think he truly believes what he says now, although if he does it might be the reason he keeps losing to styles of play he doesn't approve of.
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Yeah, Diggity, watch some experienced casters why dontcha! lolololol
But yeah, I never understand people who criticize Idra's play... maybe if he wasn't top 30 in the world I could see your opinion of him as a person running over into your thoughts on his play, but since he is it's just ridiculous to make such claims.
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I agree that people calling Idra skill-less is a bit overrated, but I also think his skills don't deserve the amount and intensity of his fans.
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tbh diggity you are probably one of the casters who pretty blatantly favor one player throughout a cast.
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On November 20 2010 10:32 baller wrote:
it is OK if u r a fan of a player. even if u cast, u can be a fan of a player. but u must not let fanship make ur commentaries biased. if u need some help being fair balanced casts and not being 2 biased to idra, check out some experienced casters like husky or HD, they do a good job of being excited about both players usually
On November 20 2010 10:54 baller wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2010 10:47 Gaius Romanus wrote:
yo, diggity has been casting for years now. I watch both hd and husky but IMO diggity is a much better caster. caster is like women, some fans like 1 caster some fans like other. u cannot say 1 is better or worse bc its personal opinions (other than subscriber #s). but this blog not about comparing caster, its about diggity and idra, plz dont turn it into another debate.
Hahahahahaha. These posts are so hilarious. If it wasn't baller, I would have totally thought they were serious. Excellent parody.
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I frankly can't believe anyone would accuse Diggity of anything other than being NPR for SC. His smooth delivery and clever insight both inform and entertain us. Sure, like NPR, he may or may not have a certain inclination to 100% organic, fair-trade, cruelty-free, hemp Zerg players, i.e. IdrA, but that surely doesn't impugn his journalistic integrity.
Diggity is a legend, like Paul Bunyon, Santa Claus, or Global Warming, but bigger, nicer, and hotter, than those respectively. Diggity is so good at casting, his wife made him sign a contract when they got married that he'd have to narrate her play-by-play for at least one day per week, but he goes ahead and does it every day because he knows how much it means to her.
Diggity is so nice that instead of competing in Korea and becoming the true BW Bonjwa, he tutored Jaedong and then Flash, because he knew it meant more for Koreans to stay on top.
Klaz didn't quit casting because he got tired or didn't have the time, he stopped because, like the Elves in Tolkien novels, his era had ended and he got on a ship to some to sacred place no one has ever returned from (the Bahamas). He left knowing that Diggity would be there to keep up safe from bad casting and missing great games.
Diggity, without you, the American access to Korean BW would have been a fraction as well informed or soothed by your ability to express Manlove for the Mantoss that each and every nerd has struggled with his own ability to convey in ways consistent with a largely homophobic and hostile community.
Thank you for your time, sir. Thank you for saving the world, in your own special way.
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EPT
