• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 14:29
CET 20:29
KST 04:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview2RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1834
StarCraft 2
General
Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Innova Crysta on Hire
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1631 users

Hypocrisy in E-Sports - Page 2

Blogs > Delerium
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
DeckOneBell
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-30 17:14:37
September 30 2010 17:13 GMT
#21
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-licensing3.htm

Educate yourself.

Bands almost never play a part in the licensing of their music other than possibly by what contract they choose to sign.

I'm sure you realize the RIAA sues at the drop of a hat (as shown by their actions against illegal downloads) so you realize that OGN and MBC game HAS to be licensing their shit. How the hell do you think they manage to get Paramore's music playing during breaks, an internationally known band's music, without causing an international incident? That shit is money.

Yeah, these bands might be damn well near unknown, which might be why GOM TV chose them. Their licensing fees are probably dirt cheap, and, if you understand how advances work for recording artists, they might never even see the money, it might just go to paying off their advance that the label gave them.

This is ridiculous. Your assumptions are unfounded, and you don't understand how music licensing works (government entity should get a pass? Uh, no, the United States Postal Service pays for the music in their commercials too.)

It's not "blantantly hypocritical." You're just making false assumptions on shaky grounds.
Delerium
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States324 Posts
September 30 2010 17:15 GMT
#22
Yes. And you're posting before reading the whole thread!

I do that sometimes, too. But not when the thread is only one page long =o

I kind of want to steal that mod edit on brood's post for a sig. Seems like I need more Chill.
DeckOneBell
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-30 17:25:39
September 30 2010 17:18 GMT
#23
I started my post before I saw your post at the bottom of the first page (it hadn't been posted yet), but my points still stand in regards to your original post. I'm addressing the fact that your assumptions are entirely ludicrous as well as the fact they're wrong.
Delerium
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States324 Posts
September 30 2010 17:25 GMT
#24
Well, they're not necessarily wrong... just probably wrong ;]

I've learned over the years that "knowing" is a difficult thing. It's hard to "know" something for certain. Most of what we think we know is just educated guesses. Usually, those are fine. But sometimes...

The premise of this thread is actually an interesting example of how the human mind can work. If you're upset about something, in this case the turmoil of korean e-sports, it can cloud your judgment. If you want something to latch onto with your emotion, you will do so unreasonably as soon as you identify a candidate.

I and many other people I know have always presumed that the music wasn't being paid for. Actually, it still may not be, even if there is a vehicle for it-- there's no way to know (but that neither supports nor excuses the accusation). Even so, I didn't question the presumption when I got myself worked up about it, which was a mistake.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
September 30 2010 17:31 GMT
#25
Guess I'm the only one who liked your blog . I don't think there would be a pro scene as we know it (no market to invade for GOMTV) if it wasn't for KESPA. This is not really related to what you said about copyright though.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
September 30 2010 17:44 GMT
#26
Yo Delerium,
well everyone is hammering you on the hypocrisy thing, and I guess you got triggered by the assumption of the song thing;
but I just wanna say:
I bought 2 copies of SC2; one in Korean and one in Australia (so I could nearly have full worldwide coverage lol, Europe is no point in Korea) so anyway,
even though I've bought the game, actually, I have an 'unlimited' account.
I wonder if one day it will suddenly change to 'limited' keke,
but I get your main point about it if you see the game as a platform;
and I think for SCBW you're right,
but as the corporate wheels turn, by its nature, SC2 now is set-up so that isn't the case, it isn't an open platform now as SCBW .

Its hard to say either way; if its the professional sports model I agree with you, but if blizzard choses to treat the game as content then yeah, its their prerogative, but I get what you're saying and for me, its not something I can agree with blizzard or disagree with them, its just a commercial decision that may hand them some short term profits or fuck up their long term prospects and ultimate market potential in sales. They very well may be shooting themselves in the foot and then after 4 years when their sales are like zero, very well ease up on this... or else the momentum of SC2 will keep on raging and it will have been a great decision and SC3 will come out a bit sooner than expected for a cost of 150 USD per unlimited license (joke blizzard, it's expensive enough!)
Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
YiukeDukem
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States125 Posts
September 30 2010 17:46 GMT
#27
rated 1/5, they pay licensing fees as OGN/MBC are parts of the larger TV networks that do so.
unless you show otherwise with direct proof that they don't pay for the rights to the music, your rant means nothing
quye
Delerium
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States324 Posts
September 30 2010 17:51 GMT
#28
Yes, Elroi... though misguided, this was a vehicle for me to express my displeasure at what's happening to KeSPA because of SC2. I know Korean fans tend to hate dogspa, but I love Proleague...

I get irritated whenever Dan and Nick say on the air that the GSL is better because it's not closed off, then in the same breath they say that the sc2 teams are looking for sponsors. I don't particularly want to return to the days when teams had to eat ramen because they had no money, but I promised I wouldn't get back into that debate in that thread, so I won't.
Jaw
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States274 Posts
September 30 2010 17:57 GMT
#29
OGN and MBC do pay licensing fees. they play the same 3-4 songs for the players over and over in osl/msl Group Selection.
Gdarkness
Profile Joined November 2009
United States40 Posts
September 30 2010 18:08 GMT
#30
I'm against I.P Law because the only backing that it "supposedly" has is utilitarian, which I don't think is particularly strong. Essientitally, people rationalize that if the creator can't extort some payment from anyone who uses/copies/samples, then creators lose incentive to create. And so the logic for I.P law is that it is needed to "protect" (protectionsim comes to mind) the fragile profitibility of creative works. Of course, there are examples that prove this wrong. Clothing and Fashion for the most part have no laws on them (some countries do, but, not surprisingly, the countries WITHOUT I.P Law on Clothes/Fashion have the highest gross in total sales), and they still have many designers with innovation.

The way I think of it that is hard to dispute, is that the commodities of ideas/music/video games are non-scarce; meaning, you can literally infinitely reproduce them, so that everyone can experience it WITHOUT theft/ loss of property. We can't share a car, if you drive it, then I can't; but if you have a CD, I can copy that CD on mine, we both have that CD. There's that Thomas Jefferson quote about it, along the lings of "someone who lights the candle of ideas with the flame of mine has not taken from me, nor at the expense of me."

Fun Fact: When Xerox Copiers became available, there was a big uproar over how bad that would be for authors because anyone could just photocopy your work.
be internet.
composition
Profile Joined September 2008
98 Posts
September 30 2010 18:39 GMT
#31
On October 01 2010 02:25 Delerium wrote:
The premise of this thread is actually an interesting example of how the retard mind can work.



User was warned for this post
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
September 30 2010 19:28 GMT
#32
Wow, I never thought about it from this angle...
Delerium
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States324 Posts
September 30 2010 20:45 GMT
#33
oh ho, while I was away from my computer I pondered embellishing my post about the psychology of this blog entry, but I see someone has already fake-quoted and gotten warned for it! good thing I waited.

In all seriousness, I had made a remark to a starcraft-watching friend of mine about the music before, and he agreed that it was hypocritical. But really, the origin of that thought was a lot longer-standing than a recent conversation. As I said, many people besides myself presumed that that's what was going on, since e-sports is not a really profitable business- how could they afford to pay for all that music? Some of you may recall that the point of e-sports was to create cheap television programming. I had never seen discussion of it, so I wanted to post about it.

I had come to view the Blizzard-sponsored e-sports establishment as the enemy of Korean e-sports, so this detail acted as a symbol. It came to represent what was upsetting me: the possible disbanding of Proleague and the pro team houses, the death of the MSL and probably OSL. That became attached to the music I was hearing (which was presumed to be used inconsistently with the way Blizzard wanted StarCraft to be used). Then, when I heard it, it acted as a trigger. That whole process with the attachment of meaning was the part I found interesting.

Another interesting thing for all you armchair psychologists out there is that I had some self-awareness of this. I knew that I couldn't prove what I was saying in spite of how strongly I felt about it. So, there is an out. If you're vigilant about what's happening in your mind, you can stop yourself from putting your foot in your mouth!
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
September 30 2010 22:53 GMT
#34
One thing that you left out (I think) but is important in your op (and you told me this a lot) is that they pick music that noone's heard. Like small local bands that just put stuff on their myspace and probably wont watch GSL anyway. OSL and MSL did this too so I guess you're right in calling them out as illegal (and thus making them hypocrites) but you don't have a point without showing us proof. I reckon you're right but without having a black-on-white what's the point.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
baller
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
527 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-01 05:50:21
October 01 2010 05:48 GMT
#35
On October 01 2010 05:45 Delerium wrote:
oh ho, while I was away from my computer I pondered embellishing my post about the psychology of this blog entry, but I see someone has already fake-quoted and gotten warned for it! good thing I waited.

In all seriousness, I had made a remark to a starcraft-watching friend of mine about the music before, and he agreed that it was hypocritical. But really, the origin of that thought was a lot longer-standing than a recent conversation. As I said, many people besides myself presumed that that's what was going on, since e-sports is not a really profitable business- how could they afford to pay for all that music? Some of you may recall that the point of e-sports was to create cheap television programming. I had never seen discussion of it, so I wanted to post about it.

ya man totally SHOCKING that GSL and OGN can pay 4 the music. they pay millions for studio, broadcasters, prize money, camera crew, observers, makeup, artists, video producers, booths, computers, advertising, internet streams for millions of ppl, or to have their own TV channel. all of this is no problem, but like 10k for a few songs they play over and over, now that's just crazy yo, glad ur here 2 spot how weird that is. maybe u should call CNN right now.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 600
JuggernautJason103
UpATreeSC 96
EmSc Tv 33
MindelVK 18
IndyStarCraft 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23768
Shuttle 374
firebathero 143
Dewaltoss 133
Hyun 70
Mong 53
HiyA 13
Bale 12
Dota 2
420jenkins423
BananaSlamJamma195
League of Legends
C9.Mang0143
Counter-Strike
fl0m2143
byalli1061
Fnx 119
adren_tv80
Other Games
Grubby2660
Liquid`RaSZi2084
FrodaN1208
Beastyqt938
Harstem324
Liquid`Hasu266
Mlord155
ToD153
QueenE141
KnowMe124
mouzStarbuck35
Mew2King19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2289
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 33
EmSc2Tv 33
Other Games
BasetradeTV17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 74
• maralekos11
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix21
• HerbMon 20
• 80smullet 19
• Azhi_Dahaki4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1821
• Shiphtur547
Other Games
• imaqtpie1202
Upcoming Events
All-Star Invitational
6h 46m
INnoVation vs soO
Serral vs herO
Cure vs Solar
sOs vs Scarlett
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
16h 31m
AI Arena Tournament
1d
All-Star Invitational
1d 6h
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
OSC
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
6 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-14
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.