EPTTried to get into SC2, as a spectator - Page 6
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:02 Wargizmo wrote: I challenge anyone to watch game 1 of TLO vs Hyperdub and still think Sc2 is boring. It was pretty good I must say. Probably the most entertaining in SC2 yet. Well, to the people that say old bw games were bad, I still prefer Coca Cola OSL final (2001), game 3 for instance, was much better than anything I've seen in SC2 (quite a lot in fact for various reasons). I'm not comparing it to more modern games of course, would be too easy =) So yeah, it takes a big comeback from a crowd favorite for SC2 to be interesting to watch =) | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
I agree with konadora that SC2's units quickly become a giant blog in which it's hard to tell wtf is going on, especially if you are on a lower stream quality. This is such a problem in the current games, because a lot of the games don't feature much drop play and do just end up with a lot of 1a play, which is crap to watch anyway and even worse with SC2's units. I think this could be really helped by a new map pool to suit e-sports, these maps have already been played to death and lot of the maps aren't very good anyway. But, I really don't know when Blizz are gonna update their map pool, since they want to keep the ladder pool for everyone the same as the tourny pool which fails. Hope we don't see another WC3 situation. EDIT: That is new maps to help more interesting plays, rather than 1 base a move stuff, on split map then a move. | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:02 Wargizmo wrote: I challenge anyone to watch game 1 of TLO vs Hyperdub and still think Sc2 is boring. Game 1 was fairly entertaining I agree. It doesn't stop the game having huge visual clarity issues and sound problems. In terms of spectating it just makes watching it a chore at times trying to figure out what is going on. It's been said before but it has to be said again in the hope that Blizzard picks up on the problems and improves... The whole point of having a good game that is also a spectator event is being able to tell what the hell is going on. I found the Dark Swarm comment earlier in the thread pretty strange because it's damn obvious that Dark Swarm is up and you CAN see units under it. Compare it to PDD in SC2 and you seriously have to squint hard and concentrate right on the raven to see if a PDD goes down, it is so hard to see in comparison to dark swarm I just.. don't know what Blizzard was thinking. The sounds... compare Mutalisks in both games. SC2 Muta: ftt t ftt t ftt t BW Muta: ROOOOOOOARRRRRCH CHH CHH ROOOOOOOARRRRRCH CHH CHH ROOOOOOOARRRRRCH CHH CHH Hydras also stand out as having the same problem... along with about every other unit to a certain degree. The sound designers who worked on Brood War were absolute geniuses, you can tell every unit apart from what it sounds like, you can tell when things die and you can tell who is winning from the sounds alone. Combine this with super clear obvious graphics and you have something that is easy to watch and as a result easy to enjoy good play. When I watch a battle in SC2 everything just blurs together, the sounds don't have enough power or uniqueness. Mirror matches are the worst - I honestly can't tell who has what units most of the time. Even if I am playing in 1920x1080 res on max on my 27 inch monitor I still have trouble on some maps because they are so dark... the question is why? And yes I agree, SC2 is worse than WC3 in terms of visual clarity and sound design. | ||
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Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On September 20 2010 22:55 vek wrote: In terms of spectating it just makes watching it a chore at times trying to figure out what is going on. I hear this time and time again, but I've never understood how people can think BW is easier to follow than Sc2. Sc2 has so many observer tools like the production and unit tabs - as long as the observer knows what he's doing you always know what people are building and what strategies they are going and exactly who is ahead. Sc1 matches don't even show the food count for each player unless it's the OSL who have that custom screen edited in. I often have to look at the chatroom or LR thread to figure out who's winning. The units themselves I find are FAR clearer in Sc2; in Sc1 I see a mutalisk stack and I have no idea if it's 4 mutalisks or 12 mutalisks I'm watching. Dark swarm just looks ugly and confuses the action for me and some spells like irradiate on a burrowed unit doesn't even show up at all. I would like to see the opinions of a non-Sc1 player on whether it's easier to follow than Sc2 or not because I have a feeling a lot of Sc1 veterans are so used to the game that they don't even realise stuff is actually quite hard to pick up on to the untrained eye. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66158 Posts
On September 20 2010 21:02 Wargizmo wrote: I challenge anyone to watch game 1 of TLO vs Hyperdub and still think Sc2 is boring. i never said it was boring i said it's freaking hard to make out what's going on + lack of sounds makes it less "connected" and "real" as compared to bw, because of all the points i mentioned in the first post content-wise, that game was good, i won't deny it. | ||
7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On September 20 2010 18:20 ArvickHero wrote: New strategies and stronger players won't really bring forth a more entertaining experience. Lower level BW is still damn entertaining for a normal spectator, even more than SC2's higher level games. My god you're subjective. What exactly do you mean by "normal spectator" .. I suppose you mean yourself? I've got several friends I tried to get into watching BW and I never managed to achieve that, the same people, however, now enjoy watching SC2 a lot. Oh and on a completely unrelated note, since this is your blog On September 20 2010 13:10 konadora wrote: lol haha I officially hate you now, konadora  + Show Spoiler + just kidding | ||
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HeadhunteR
Argentina1258 Posts
On September 20 2010 23:58 konadora wrote: i never said it was boring i said it's freaking hard to make out what's going on + lack of sounds makes it less "connected" and "real" as compared to bw, because of all the points i mentioned in the first post content-wise, that game was good, i won't deny it. that game was good and sc2 should develop a bit more for me to make a final statement but its much easier on the eyes to watch a bw game. The more i watch sc2 the more I crave to see what is happening but the graphics turn the excitement a bit off. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32049 Posts
And jesus, the stuff in this thread. There's a group of people complaining that it's only 1 base play and it never goes past it. Then on 5, there's a bunch of people complaining that it's only 200/200 blobs each game. IT CAN'T BE BOTH PEOPLE. So many people want and treat SC2 like it's BW, and just can't accept it's a different game in the same cannon | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
But I think the rest is a lack of experience. I can look at any thing at anytime and figure out what's going on. There is some issues like Zerglings being hard to spot on the creep on Ultra but with all the great observer tools (production tab is the greatest thing ever) I think you need to know more what's going on. It's no different than BW, when I first started watching competitive play in BW I had NO CLUE what was going on until I knew what to look for, much like SCII. | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
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-Frog-
United States514 Posts
Either way, maybe you should try playing the game some more and as a result you may find it easier to watch. If you've already played a lot of games then my apologies, I'm simply stating what happened in my experience. | ||
CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
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mahnini
United States6862 Posts
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On September 21 2010 01:36 Hawk wrote: I don't see how you could possibly make such huge, sweeping judgements based on a stream that is obviously inferior to actual game quality... would anyone take me seriously if I loaded up atdhe.net, flipped on a crappy NFL stream and said, 'this blows, I can't tell what's going on'?? And jesus, the stuff in this thread. There's a group of people complaining that it's only 1 base play and it never goes past it. Then on 5, there's a bunch of people complaining that it's only 200/200 blobs each game. IT CAN'T BE BOTH PEOPLE. So many people want and treat SC2 like it's BW, and just can't accept it's a different game in the same cannon Of course we can. As a spectator, what we have are the streams. and iirc kona is watching Korean VODs, which is far better quality than american ones. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 21 2010 01:36 Hawk wrote: I don't see how you could possibly make such huge, sweeping judgements based on a stream that is obviously inferior to actual game quality... would anyone take me seriously if I loaded up atdhe.net, flipped on a crappy NFL stream and said, 'this blows, I can't tell what's going on'?? Or if Al Michaels and Chris Colinsworth talked about the shape of a goalpost while the camera panned on a water cooler, as a play was going on. :x This morning watching GSL, I also felt like super exciting SC2 stuff was hard to watch/follow, but I think a lot of it falls on the observing. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:33 Milkis wrote: Of course we can. As a spectator, what we have are the streams. and iirc kona is watching Korean VODs, which is far better quality than american ones. The Korean obs is pretty terrible too. I didn't last night but up until that Youtube channel got taken down, I was watching Korean video + English audio. Korean obs was also late to engagements and never pulled up important unit tabs. | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:38 Jibba wrote: The Korean obs is pretty terrible too. I didn't last night but up until that Youtube channel got taken down, I was watching Korean video + English audio. Korean obs was also late to engagements and never pulled up important unit tabs. I'm not talking about obs -_- | ||
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