Hello TL this is my 2nd blog post and I usually try not to post unless I feel I need to.
Well i'll get straight to the point. I am thinking of enlisting in the military, not sure what branch yet but i'm leaning toward the Army and possibly Marines. The reason is this: I am 21 years old, been in a community college for 3 years, don't have a job ( hadn't had one since my freshman year of HS), and I feel like I am wasting my parent's time/money (I am dependent on them). My dad talked to me earlier in the week and told me that in the next semester (january) that I would have to start getting loans as they will not pay for my college anymore.
I was starting to feel this way already, because I am not sure what I want to do in my life; I went into college because I felt like I had to and being in college was better than not right (lol TT)? So in my mind going into the military would help me get my life together w/o wasting my parents time/money and also from what I understand they can help pay for your college once you get out; plus I think if I die in service my parents get the life insurance money? In my mind these are some of the pros of going through with this decision; the cons that I can think of are: you could die when you get shipped out, also I heard they can extend your service w/o your consent or something like that.
So if there is anyone who is or was or just knows about this stuff, I have some questions:
1. I kind of researched online a little about this and one of the things i'm worried about is the test that we have to take? the AVSAB/AFQT (or w/e) is the test hard and how difficult would it be for a HS graduate? And how much should I study for it?
2. What are some other pros/cons of enlisting in the military? As you can see I haven't really looked into yet but really considering it, so I want to be informed of the pros/cons before I make this huge, life changing decision.
3. Also what branch should I think of enlisting in? Right now my knowledge of the different branches is limited as to what job opportunities they would have but I know I do not want to be in the Coast Guard, Reserve, or National Guard. This sound stupid but I want to also get out and see the world (so possibly Navy). Like I said earlier I am leaning toward the Army, because if I enlisted I am thinking of just being an infantryman or a combat medic.
These are just some of the questions I have so far and I know I should see a recruiter, but I want to be informed as much as possible before I step into the devil's lair (haha XD). Any criticism you guys have, please keep it civil/manner and if there are reasons as to why I should/shouldn't join please do so.
Hopefully you guys can help as TL's member's come from different walks of life and I would like to hear the (well-informed) responses from people on why I should/shouldn't join and what other information they can tell me.
You go to the military if you believe that's really what would suit you. That's something I personally don't understand at all, but there are some people who apparently like the whole thing.
Going to the army just because you don't really see other option right now is the worst thing to do. If you are conscious that you waste your parents money, work really hard and you'll make yourself a situation in life.
The only person I know who went to French army is a friend of an ex gf, who went for the Para's commandos, the most hardcore section of French army infantry. The day he woke up in the middle of his colleagues puke (good joke for the newcomer, haha?), he deserted, got researched, and shot himself.
Now, that's just a story of one guy, and I don't know which kind of person you are. But seriously, I believe everybody on earth has better things to do than getting killed or fighting for an unknown cause against people you don't share anything with and who have good reason to hate you in Irak or Afghanistan. That's just not very sexy.
If your recruiter makes you a promise, there is something you need to do before the end of the recruiting process. GET THAT PROMISE IN WRITING. This especially applies to Marine recruiters. Just make sure that you get it in writing before you sign anything binding.
1. The test is not difficult. If you got above a 1200 (out of 1600) on the SAT, you should do fine on the non-mechanical parts. If you didn't, there are study guides out for it.
2. The big pro is that if you aren't married, you'll likely have more money than you really need. An army life is a pretty comfortable one, financially. It's tougher if you have a family to support, but tax-free shopping, really cheap food at the commissary, and a housing allowance makes your situation much, much more manageable than if you were working retail or something similar.
Another pro is that you get out what you put into the military. It's pretty much a pure meritocracy, with some exceptions.
3. It's up to you. Well, actually, one word of advice: Shoot for a job that's not just regular infantry. My impression is that any kind of specialization that you achieve in the military makes you a more important cog in the wheel of the machine (which can be good for self-esteem when you're out in the middle of the desert) and will lead to you learning more skills, which can be applied to your job search post-military.
It's actually sort of baffling to me how many people just accept a job as an infantryman.
Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
i just signed up today, not even joking. i took the asvab yesterday and that shit is pretty easy. i just graduated from highschool and have had no further education and i got in the 97 percentile. As long as you get above like 50 percentile, which you will like no problem, you are pretty much good to go. also there are parts of the quiz that are like electronics, visual stuff, and other mechanical things (like car parts and simple physics sort of things) but these parts dont go into your percentile at the end so dont worry if you dont know shit on this part. you might score low in these areas but it's really no biggy. no studying required for the test, just go take it and you will do well. if you enlist you can get $45k a year in financial aid for college, there is the possibility you will get deployed though which can interrupt your education. if you score well on the asvab my recruiter told me to either go into military intelligence, something mechanical, or being a medic as these will give you really good skills and you can immediately get a job right out of the army. the army offers the most careers in terms of all the branches. if you join now you probably won't even have to go to basic until like january/february cuz people dont generally get sent to basic this time of year with thanksgiving and christmas coming up.
the guys at the recruiting center i went to were really chill and they were really honest with me and they really try to help you out. you can go take the asvab and shit and then if you decide not to you can walk away. just whatever you do, don't join then quit later as it completely fucks over your recruiter, so really think before you join (dont be like "oh i can just quit later")
so yeah, just go to the recruiter station and tell them you are interested in joining. they will answer all your questions pretty truthfully (at least they did in my case, be careful though and try to be skeptical of everything they say).
Honestly, I thought alot like you. I took quite a lot of time off after high school just shitting around. Then I was sorta pushed to go to a local community college. I did, after a year, I didn't have much to show for it, I fucking hated it, wasted over $2k on it. I knew I wasn't going back to college, least not for awhile so I filled out job apps all over, noyone was hiring I guess.
I had the same thought, mind as well try the military. I decided on the Air Force. Went through MEPs, worked my ass off getting in shape before I went, only to to get there and be leaving 3 weeks later. Dunno, I hated it. I quickly realized the first time I had a T.I screaming in my face that I really had no reason to be there, no motivation. I had simply signed up because I was bored and had nothing to do.
Nowadays I still kinda kick myself for not putting much effort into it (my ASVAB scores were quite high, so I qualified for a bunch of jobs that would have been nice).
I would really suggest you research everything you can, the recruiters won't tell you everything you really need to know (though, mine was actually pretty cool). Read the UCMJ, that shit will be your bible while you are in, if you have any problems with anything in it, don't bother signing up in the first place.
Also, why would you want to be a grunt? with some college experience you can easily sign up for the Air Force, and Navy, both infinitely safer. I have a cousin that just got back from Afghanistan, another that will be going later this year, and its scary shit. Have you talked to your family about this, and how they feel if you were to get deployed? It is a huge burden to put on your family.
Also for your questions:
1. I kind of researched online a little about this and one of the things i'm worried about is the test that we have to take? the AVSAB/AFQT (or w/e) is the test hard and how difficult would it be for a HS graduate? And how much should I study for it?
I barely studied. If you REALLY want to you can get a study book, its alot like the ones they have for the SAT's. It is stupidly easy though, incredibly basic. They have the odd question about shit like cars, electronics, etc. so if you took any vocational classes in high school it would come in handy. Overall I dont know, they have alot of info on Wiki about it. How much you study is up to you, its pretty general knowledge stuff, either you know it or you don't.
2. What are some other pros/cons of enlisting in the military? As you can see I haven't really looked into yet but really considering it, so I want to be informed of the pros/cons before I make this huge, life changing decision.
Well, the pro's for me were pretty simple. They pay for college, you get free housing (if you stay on base), if you live off base then they give you a housing alowance to help pay for it. Free medical/dental. My dad is retired navy so I used to have Tricare Prime, which was fucking amazing. Also, the opportunity to travel is pretty big with people, personally I lived in Scotland and Spain while my dad was in, it was definantly a once in a lifetime experience.
The con's are pretty clear. First and formost, if you are in the Marines, Army, or National Gaurd, you have the highest possibility of all the branches to get deployed to hostile areas (Afghanistan). They tell you what to do, if they tell you to cook, or clean up shit, or scrub floors, you will do it or get shafted up the ass. Also I hope you don't value privacy because there is no such thing while you are in.
3. Also what branch should I think of enlisting in? Right now my knowledge of the different branches is limited as to what job opportunities they would have but I know I do not want to be in the Coast Guard, Reserve, or National Guard. This sound stupid but I want to also get out and see the world (so possibly Navy). Like I said earlier I am leaning toward the Army, because if I enlisted I am thinking of just being an infantryman or a combat medic.
I really thing you should try to get into the Air Force first, which should'nt be an issue for you (unless you have a tattoo, they are pretty anal about that). The Navy is also a solid choice, though be prepared to be out at sea for months at a time your first year or so. If you like the ocean alot I guess Navy would be cool. Coast Gaurd, I have heard good things about, but I personally don't know anyone who served in it.
Once again I really implore you to rethink joining the marines/army. If you want to be a medic that bad, you could always try for a Corpsman in the Navy.
i'd do it. i'm actually considering this also, not as an easy way to get money or a career, it seems like a very interesting learning experience.
really, don't let anyone discourage your decisions.
as said before even it is an easy option, daa-daa-da, you'll go through an entirely different experience, nothing like you ever have before (from what i heard).
doing something rather than doing nothing is still progression.
On September 16 2010 07:29 Scorcher2k wrote: Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
Funny, if it wasn't for the money US military wouldn't even have enough troops to cut lawns around their barracks. This is so idealistic and crazy it made me smile. Most people in the military are the ones that couldn't make it on the outside or had the worst luck ever. You will hear countless stories from people with ruined credit history, criminals, potheads etc.
Well, I'll start by saying I think you are doing the right thing by researching it first. I myself am going into the Air Force for pararescue. You may have seen the episode on Surviving the Cut... I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to this, but it is something I have thoroughly researched. It also isn't quite the same as enlisting for a "regular" job. The reason I say that is because when you first enlist and you get through basic, you aren't done yet with your training. You go to your tech school or whatever, but they still treat you like a child. There are some pretty good reasons for this (think of all the kids fresh out of high school getting paychecks), but if you're not fresh out of high school I can't imagine it being all that great. When I get to indocrination, they're not going to treat me like a kid. I'll have to man up, or quit. It'll be awhile before you'll be "on your own."
There are a lot of good reasons to join, but I think you need to find jobs that interest you. The ASVAB is easy if you've gotten a decent education. I studied 4 hours just to get in test mode, and I got perfect scores. So, figure out what you might want to do and make sure you qualify for it with test scores and physical ability (i.e. vision, medical history, fitness).
Realize that you are not just starting a regular job, the military will own your ass. You can't quit, until your enlistment runs out. The part about them keeping you for longer is called "stop loss" I believe. They can hold you for longer, but considering that Iraq is drawing down and Afghanistan may cool down a bit in the next few years... it might not be very common to be extended. I think only the Army and Marines extended anyone. Just be aware that it could happen. You aren't entitled to very much. When you pick a job, you will likely get a slot and everything for it, but if something goes wrong (you fail tech school, you are medically DQed) they can move you wherever they want, as far as I know.
The Air Force has the best standard of living, hands down (aka Chair Force). It is also really difficult to get into right now, unless you qualify for a job where they need people. The Navy is difficult to get into as well, but they need SEALs and people going to their nuclear programs. Not sure what else is a big need for them. I heard the Fleet sucks though. At least from people who didn't make it through BUD/S and forever regretted quitting. Army and Marines have poorer standards of living. A whole lot more opportunities in the Army I believe and it is easier to get into . Marines are... Marines? They have that whole attitude thing going on and they slay dragons on commercials and have good looking uniforms. Maybe you'd look good in a high and tight? If you want to be a medic, the Navy has corpsman as well.
No one can really tell you whether you should or should not join. Make that decision for yourself. Just learn as much as you can about it, so you don't wind up somewhere you never thought you'd be. For me, I have no interest in being anything other than a pararescueman and hopefully that gives me some of the motivation I need to make it through training and beyond.
Go see all the services' recruiters. They'll just ask you the basic questions to see if they should even waste their time on you. Then you'll take a practice ASVAB, which takes 15 minutes so then they can see what jobs that you might even qualify for. Of course they have their own agenda, but at least you'll see what is out there and if you can even get in in the first place.
I know my post is very unorganized, but I hope I helped some. Also, I'm certainly no expert, so take what I wrote with a grain of salt. If you have any other questions, shoot.
Thanks for the replies so far guys it has helped me see some things I never thought of before.
@Biff
Good point about just working hard to improve my situation. The thing is I have to be motivated to work hard/strive for something. Right now I am unsure about staying in college as the current degree I was working towards (BS in nursing) I find hard to motivate myself to continue doing as I do not enjoy/not interested in taking those classes (I only chose that major because that's what my parents want me to do). I only have like 7(?) classes completed so far in it so yeah. But your response has helped me think more about my motivations in enlisting and I am sure to think more deeply about it.
@motbob Ahh were you in the military? if so what service? Also the part about getting things in writing is one of the things that has me hesitant. It seems like I have to hold up my end of the bargain while they can fuck you over if they want. Which is also why I am trying to be informed as much as possible before I talk to a recruiter. I am thinking of doing something medical, but only because I don't know what other specializations they have. @Scorcher
As much as I would love to do that, it would be difficult for me to take a year off as I do not have a job. I have been looking/applying to many places the last 2 years and so far my lack of work experience is really kicking my ass (I haven't worked since my freshman year in HS and that was as a semi-janitor after school with other kids). I hope that sometime this semester (sooner than later) I find something that I am interested in/passionate about to pursue.
@Nitrogen
Yeah I looked at some of the study guides for the ASVAB at a bookstore last night and the parts that scared me were the mechanical, electronics, and visual stuff (I think there were others but I forgot which)because I am shit at anything mechanical (I had no vocational classes in HS). From what I got in the beginning of the book, it says that you don't have to worry about scoring high in these subtests unless you are actually going to be like a mechanic/maintenance... I think. Also a question about that 45k a year to help pay for college, does that only apply WHILE you are in service or after? Can't they just keep deploying you to keep you busy (I guess this is why I shouldn't be a grunt? XD)? But your post had some good info thx!
@Enki I am considering Air Force and Navy too its just that I don't know that much about those branches. I heard that mostly smart people get into those branches compared to the Army/Marines. Also I don't know what jobs a person can have in those branches; like I said I am uninformed about those branches ( research time!). As for me being a medic I don't know why I wanted to be that, but in HS I really really wanted to be one. I guess maybe some inner desire to be wanted/needed? Or to help save someone? rofl I don't know.
@GreyCone holy shit I just wikipedia'd your job. Wow pararescue sounds so hardcore lol. Their training sounds hella tough too. but I guess if you're saving lives you'd want someone well trained instead of a scrub right? XD
Also what are the minimum requirements for getting into the Navy or Air Force? I never took the SAT to get into college only the CPT tests once I was in the community college. Also getting a perfect score on the ASVAB must've been something! what did the recruiters say about your score? from the looks of it, it seems like a high score opens up soooo many job oppurtunities in the military. Also for the physical/fitness test did they have u do a circuit of physical activities? And do you have to pass it in order to get in? Im not that physically in shape right now so I am planning to start running/working out in the next 3 months to get in shape. But I also think there are some medical jobs in the Army and Navy? Also if I was a corpsman it is to my understanding that I would be deployed with Marines? Haha my cousin was in the Navy he told some pretty interesting stories about his sailing life lol. but yeah I have until next semester to make a decision.
yeah don't worry about the mechanical parts and the visual part. the visual part is fucking impossible at the end because it keeps getting faster and faster. you're completely right though, the mechanical sections and electronics dont go into your asvab percentile at the end which is really what matters along with your line scores (individual sections). i have my test score report right next to me right now, the sections that count towards your AFQT percentile i believe are general science, arithmetic reasoning, word knowledge, paragraph comprehension and math knowledge. the extra sections are electronics info, autoshop, mechanical comprehension, assembling objects and the visual thingy. if you want the composite score sections for each branch of the military so you know what you have to do well on if you want to do a specific thing just let me know and i'll list them all out here.
i believe the 45k/year is just if you are in the army, but after you are out you get the GI bill (essentially if you pay like $100 each month for a year you get like 40-50k afterwords).
i have no idea about the whole contract continuation thing, i'll ask my recruiter tomorrow (going to take the d-lab!). i doubt they would purposely keep deploying you just so you wouldn't go to college though. once your contract is done you are in the reserve i believe, so i guess technically you can be deployed.
also remember if you take the asvab and your recruiter shows you all the jobs available on his computer, those aren't the only jobs. the one i'm going for (35 whiskey) wasn't listed but your recruiter can just call some people up and ask if there are any available. a guy near me in the recruiting station got a 68 whiskey (combat medic) job even though it wasn't listed after he took the asvab. also as long as you score above 60 on the asvab you will have the same job options as someone who got 99 pretty much.
for the physical when getting accepted into the military you don't have to be in shape at all, just be healthy pretty much. the physical is kinda weird though, you have to do all these weird walks when you're in your underwear in front of like 50 other guys to show that you don't have any health problems or anything. then they do a piss test and a blood test etc. one of the guys at my recruiting station i was talking to said he could do like 2 pushups when he went to basic, so you don't really have to be in shape at all, just healthy like i said. he also said you'll see lotsa fat people there so really don't worry about what kind of shape you're in before basic or the physical or anything.
Is the army really what you want? Have you given a thought about what are you going to do longterm? I can't imagine how many people in the same situation as you are end up in the army, hopefully you don't end up there.
On September 16 2010 07:29 Scorcher2k wrote: Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
Funny, if it wasn't for the money US military wouldn't even have enough troops to cut lawns around their barracks. This is so idealistic and crazy it made me smile. Most people in the military are the ones that couldn't make it on the outside or had the worst luck ever. You will hear countless stories from people with ruined credit history, criminals, potheads etc.
And you also have people like Colin Powell who was admittedly an unmotivated C average kid before joining the military. While a lot of the experience is out of your control, like anything in life every person can make something different out of it.
Since you've already been in college for 3 years, why don't you finish up and apply to be an officer instead? Your school may even have an ROTC program you can join which might pay for the rest of your education. It's worth checking out at least.
i like all the detailed responses to OP, TL is so helpful <3
i personally have no experience on this topic, but i've heard from my sister (her fiance is in the US navy) that they're going to get a lot of benefits when he's done his training. i'm not sure, but i think he's in nuke school, and is getting paid a good amount to study with the navy, and i think they will also help him + my sister when they get married with their college educations.
if you don't know what you want to do with your life, i'm not sure that the military is the best place to figure out what you want to do. however, you will probably get a lot of benefits that will help you pay for your college education now that your parents aren't going to help you with it. plus, i'm sure that it will be an invaluable experience that will help you throughout your life, regardless of what you choose to do after that.
honestly, i think you should go to a recruiter for answers on these questions. after you get those answers, you can go home and reconsider enlisting in the military. just don't let the recruiter pressure you into enlisting before you're sure about this.
On September 16 2010 07:29 Scorcher2k wrote: Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
Funny, if it wasn't for the money US military wouldn't even have enough troops to cut lawns around their barracks. This is so idealistic and crazy it made me smile. Most people in the military are the ones that couldn't make it on the outside or had the worst luck ever. You will hear countless stories from people with ruined credit history, criminals, potheads etc.
Those "most people" also sign up on a whim. They don't post on a starcraft community site looking for insight and/or opinions. There is nothing crazy about being idealistic either.
As much as I would love to do that, it would be difficult for me to take a year off as I do not have a job. I have been looking/applying to many places the last 2 years and so far my lack of work experience is really kicking my ass (I haven't worked since my freshman year in HS and that was as a semi-janitor after school with other kids). I hope that sometime this semester (sooner than later) I find something that I am interested in/passionate about to pursue.
Jobs are certainly hard in most places to find. I just really wanted to throw out more ideas as it seems like you feel as if you're backed into a corner from your post. There are also things like environmental work where they pay you a little bit and provide room/board to do it or the peace core. The benefits certainly aren't there but it's just another choice. Please don't take this as me being some kind of anti military/goverment hippie or something. I have close friends who have done both and they have had mixed experiences with both as well. So again, just trying to throw out some ideas. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I remember taking the ASVAB in high school to get out of a Biology AP Exam and remembering how easy it was. i made something like a 97, 98 or 99 something in that manner. Its an incredibly easy test and the only part i didn't really know about was the Car and Mechanics part as I'm not really into car parts and what not.
From advice from my friends who joined the armed forces, try getting as many benefits as you can from those recruiters. They will offer you a base amount of benefits but if you talk with them saying how its not worth it or how you need some time to think, they can give you some more money or whatever in order to entice you to sign with them that day because they know if you dont sign up that day, most likely you'll never set foot in their recruitment office ever again. My best friend's brother got about 5-8K cash extra when he signed up.
Guess I'll give some input. This will be geared towards the Army.
1. The asvab is too easy. If you had 3 years of community college, you should be fine. Go review those sat study guide book for a day, and you'll exceed the standard. You only need a GT score of 110 and you will qualify for majority of jobs. Seriously, 10th, 11th graders take it and do well on it. Don't sweat it.
2. Pro/con of military depends all on you, the branch you in, the job, etc. Pro: healthcare, steady pay check, GI Bill. Con: minimum freedom/rights, long hours, etc
3. You said you wanted to explore the world and want to be an infantryman or medic. I'll tell you right now, you won't be enjoying the world with a job as infantryman. Pick another job. Also, as far as know, in the army the only major overseas assignment stations are in Korea, Germany, and Italy. As a new recruit, you can't pick a duty station, normally. Now, there are exceptions to everything.. If you still want a cool job like infantryman and want to explore the world, ie. third world countries and also have a lil heart and somewhat fit, go tell your recruiter you want 18X contract.
Only real tip for you is to sign your contract only, ONLY for 3 years. No 4, 5, 6 year bull shit. Regardless of bonus amount, you could always re-enlist if you like it then and get the bonus.
Uh, there are 4 year, or 6 year enlistment contracts, Also, at least in 2008 when I was signing up, the Air Force was having 2 year contracts because so many people were already in it, staying in, and trying to get in. No idea if it changed since then though, I would guess not.
Regardless of your enlistment though, you are obligated for 8 years, which means after your 4 or 6 years are up, you will still be in a reserve unit for the remainder of the time.
Go see all recruiters of all branches. Even the coast guard. They do some pretty interesting stuff in the Gulf of Mexico like drug interdiction. Once you get all your info, make a well informed decision with your parents. Its not my place to say but i think you owe them that much seeing how they paid for the first three years of your college education.
Once you get out theres the post 9/11 Montgomery GI Bill which will pay for your education. I dont know too much about it so i suggest you research into it. Plus military service looks good on a resume.
Try not to delve on the dying or the life insurance at all. No parent deserves to go through the death of their child.
Hmm.. Ive been Active Army for almost 6 years now and i dont regret it one bit. Just remember, if you treat the army good, they will treat you good. If your single you live in the barracks, which really isnt that bad at all. The army is slowly progressing into having civilians run the barracks instead of your chain of command. Of course you have random inspections and stuff, but if u dont let small stuff like that bother you, you'll be banking some cash.
Um.. the GI Bill is amazing. You can always ask a recruiter more about it. The army helps pay for college while your still active as well. If you do that however, i recommend just taking 1 course at a time, just the basic stuff. Then when you get out you can use your GI Bill to go learn whatever you really wanna learn.
ASVAB is easy. Your local recruiting station should have classes or some lessons which can help you prepare for it.
The army isnt for anyone however. Most people make it seem worse then it really is from my experience though. Alot of it depends on the unit your stationed at as well. Some units can make Army life glorious, others can make it feel like hell. And then obviously since we're at war right now, you will be going to Afghanistan. Some people dont have problems with it but if you do, then i suggest you rethink going Infantry(unless you really want to do that).
I would suggest a field more into Signal, (communications and networking shit) rather than combatives. Infantry, field artillery, etc.. you wont learn anything that will help you out in the real world. Anyways, i gtg now. I'll post some more shit later.
Recruiters are bullshit. Don't listen to them—you are just a number once you're in, and you go where more numbers are needed. Listen to friends actually in service. You'll obviously need to talk to a recruiter at some point to sign the papers, but sure as shit don't listen to them for any actual advice. They're trying to fill quotas.
The test is also a joke. Don't even fret that. You'll notice your average military dude isn't a rocket scientist. If you have a HS education, you will pass.
Branch is entirely dependent on what you wanna do. See shit and be safe: Navy or AF. Wanna be a number or meat for the grinder?? Go marines or army, or anything that will land you on the ground in Afghanistan/iraq. Almost all branches all for some kind of education while in service, and you get funding for when you are out. Dunno specifics about that though.
But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay? The biggest perk education pay. The rest blows. God forbid you get ill or injured. Look how many veterans get fuckin boned by the govt. when trying to collect and get health benefits. The govt. can give two shits about you unless they can use you in some kind of operation, or they can use you as a gushy light hearted PR piece about how you were a hero, save 5 comrades and got your legs blown off.
If you're cool with that, go for it. But just know what you;re gettin in to.
because I am not sure what I want to do in my life; I went into college because I felt like I had to and being in college was better than not right (lol TT)? So in my mind going into the military would help me get my life together w/o wasting my parents time/money and also from what I understand they can help pay for your college once you get out; plus I think if I die in service my parents get the life insurance money?
I really hope you are doing this for yourself, and not for your parents.
Your parents ain't paying you anything soon, but i wonder how would they react to this idea. I bet they would rather help you financially till you find a job than having you in a 'danger' when you get shipped. (what will most likely happen(?). Or the worst scenario, when you get killed.
So think twice what you want to do. Do you want to try to get a job harder, or do you want to go to the army. I myself, would ask my parents opinion about it, or atleast tell them early what you have decided, but thats just me.
I don't know shit about army life or the experience because i haven't been there or even live in US. But its pretty clearly what i would do and consider in this situation.
I Think Hawk's post was pretty good, and you should definitely read that. And you probably will.
Some of these posts piss me off generally because its mainly from people who have never first hand experienced the military or they listen to their friends who hate it. And most of the time thats because of the individual themself. The military isnt for everyone like i mentioned earlier. So yeah, make sure you make a decision you wont regret. To others, the military is a stepping stone. Atleast it was and still is for me.
The army has a wider variety of MOS choices than any other branch. Yes, you will be deployed. Yes you might see combat and get mortared ever so often. That goes for all branches. Its the military.
On September 17 2010 02:44 Hawk wrote: But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay?
This is the most ignorant statement ive seen. You know how many friends ive made in the Army? That i even still keep in touch with? Do you know how many "friends" ive had back home after i left that i realized were complete losers and held me back from alot of shit?
And individuality? I dont even understand what you were trying to say right there. You think their's no privacy in the military? Oh no, a room inspection.. big fucking deal. Unless you live like a nasty fuck who cant take care of themselves, then yeah.. you might not like it.
Shit pay? Most people STAY in the army because of the benefits and the pay(especially married soldiers!). What other job is there that pays you 24/7, even when your on leave(vacation)? What other job provides you 3 meals a day, everyday of the week? What other job provides you a place to live(which arent as bad as what people claim, the room im living in right now is nice as fuck)? Yeah ill agree the pay isnt that high, but the benefits out of it are amazing. Only bills i got are my insurance, cable, and cellphone. The army does take care of its people if you take care of it.
I would recommend looking into a job that has a career path after the military. You may be gung ho and decide on getting 30 years in, or you may decide that 4 was more than you ever should have sign up for.
There are jobs that are fun while you're in that won't put you in a particularly good place when you leave, and jobs that will leave you looking good in the civilian world.
I'm in the Navy, so I can give you a few examples of jobs with good post Navy career potential:
IT: Computer specialist. Pretty much always in demand outside, and you can take away a valuable skillset Nuke: If you can make it through the school, civilian employers will pretty much think you're the shit coming out, especially since the reality is you're only a year and a half away from being a high-school graduate ET: Electronics technician. Good for a lot of electrical/electronic repair specialties on the outside.
Of course a lot depends on what you do while you're in (being a lazy piece of shit while you're in won't get you anywhere on the outside). The basic idea is think of what you're going to do outside of the Navy with your rating. There isn't much demand for Aviation warfare types and gunner's mates outside the service, so you'll pretty much have to talk up the fact that you were in at all.
Also, LS is the easiest rate in the Navy
Also, IT is still the best if you're set on Army ^^
On September 17 2010 02:44 Hawk wrote: But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay?
This is the most ignorant statement ive seen. You know how many friends ive made in the Army? That i even still keep in touch with? Do you know how many "friends" ive had back home after i left that i realized were complete losers and held me back from alot of shit?
And individuality? I dont even understand what you were trying to say right there. You think their's no privacy in the military? Oh no, a room inspection.. big fucking deal. Unless you live like a nasty fuck who cant take care of themselves, then yeah.. you might not like it.
Shit pay? Most people STAY in the army because of the benefits and the pay(especially married soldiers!). What other job is there that pays you 24/7, even when your on leave(vacation)? What other job provides you 3 meals a day, everyday of the week? What other job provides you a place to live(which arent as bad as what people claim, the room im living in right now is nice as fuck)? Yeah ill agree the pay isnt that high, but the benefits out of it are amazing. Only bills i got are my insurance, cable, and cellphone. The army does take care of its people if you take care of it.
That was actually supposed to say freedom, dunno where that came from
And uh, yeah, there's a just.... tad bit less individuality and freedom in the military. I don't even see how you can argue that. It's much more than 'wanting to live like a nasty fuck'. Wanna sleep in? Tough shit. Wanna go home and relax?? Tough shit, you're in Iraq. Ever heard of don't ask, don't tell??
Again, the benefits, the only thing that's awesome is the education funding. Most of the people in the military come from economically challenged backgrounds, so they'd probably qualify for assistance in the first place for school, so that's bunk. Not to mention, he doesn't even care for school, so the main perk is worthless to him.
Again, the health benefits and shit?? I'm sure you know a lot of old time Vets, just like I do. Go ask them how the govt. treats you after you're done serving them and you're crippled from getting shot, maimed or agent orange rots your balls.
Is the military good for some people?? Sure. I have a number of friends who love it, and the common trait between most of those dudes is that they are all adrenaline junkies and major patriots/career dudes who were inspired by a relative. But it's completely and totally disingenuous to pretend this shit is for everyone, that life on the inside is anything like civilian life in any way, or that the govt. actually gives a flying fuck about its Vets once they are done serving.
On September 17 2010 02:44 Hawk wrote: But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay?
This is the most ignorant statement ive seen. You know how many friends ive made in the Army? That i even still keep in touch with? Do you know how many "friends" ive had back home after i left that i realized were complete losers and held me back from alot of shit?
And individuality? I dont even understand what you were trying to say right there. You think their's no privacy in the military? Oh no, a room inspection.. big fucking deal. Unless you live like a nasty fuck who cant take care of themselves, then yeah.. you might not like it.
Shit pay? Most people STAY in the army because of the benefits and the pay(especially married soldiers!). What other job is there that pays you 24/7, even when your on leave(vacation)? What other job provides you 3 meals a day, everyday of the week? What other job provides you a place to live(which arent as bad as what people claim, the room im living in right now is nice as fuck)? Yeah ill agree the pay isnt that high, but the benefits out of it are amazing. Only bills i got are my insurance, cable, and cellphone. The army does take care of its people if you take care of it.
That was actually supposed to say freedom, dunno where that came from
And uh, yeah, there's a just.... tad bit less individuality and freedom in the military. I don't even see how you can argue that. It's much more than 'wanting to live like a nasty fuck'. Wanna sleep in? Tough shit. Wanna go home and relax?? Tough shit, you're in Iraq. Ever heard of don't ask, don't tell??
Again, the benefits, the only thing that's awesome is the education funding. Most of the people in the military come from economically challenged backgrounds, so they'd probably qualify for assistance in the first place for school, so that's bunk. Not to mention, he doesn't even care for school, so the main perk is worthless to him.
Again, the health benefits and shit?? I'm sure you know a lot of old time Vets, just like I do. Go ask them how the govt. treats you after you're done serving them and you're crippled from getting shot, maimed or agent orange rots your balls.
Is the military good for some people?? Sure. I have a number of friends who love it, and the common trait between most of those dudes is that they are all adrenaline junkies and major patriots/career dudes who were inspired by a relative. But it's completely and totally disingenuous to pretend this shit is for everyone, that life on the inside is anything like civilian life in any way, or that the govt. actually gives a flying fuck about its Vets once they are done serving.
In a strange twist, it turns out that a Staff Sergeant actually is an Enlisted rank! (oopsies)
Not to mention comparing the BASE pay of a military man to the overall take home of a McDonald's employee is ridiculous. For one, the statistic you threw out includes titles like "Architectural Drafter" "Executive Director" and "Director of Sales and Managing", so is not an average of a McDonald's minimum wage employee, which is clearly what you intended to convey.
So, what you've proven so far is that an enlisted man takes home BASE what an average employee in McDonald's corporate ladder takes home.
But wait, there's more! The Base Pay of the said ENLISTED Staff Sergeant is his pay. On top of this he's entitled to: Free housing, which in the form of BAH, this would likely net an average of $1400 a month (or a place to live, usually not as good, tbh), which is quite spiffy, bringing his pay up to $46,408 overall. Free food, which in the form of BAS would net an average of $320 a month(or free food from the um, whatever Army people call it) which brings him up to $50000, which is starting to look more like the salary of a mid level McDonald's corporate manager than that of a shift worker.
But there's more! US Military earnings are among the least taxed in the land. Only that base $29000 is taxable by Uncle Sam, leading to a much higher overall earnings for our Staff Sergeant that a McDonald's schmuck taking home 50 g's. And there are other pays that a soldier could be entitled to (such as hazard pay and separation pay).
All in all, the money in the Army seems to be quite good, despite the somber case made by the erstwhile Hawk.
So really there's two ways about it. You can listen to the people in the military who are saying it's pretty cool, or you can listen to a shill who doesn't know the difference between officer and enlisted, and obviously has something against the military.
And for fun, we'll say a O-6 (that's an Officer Pay Grade 6, or a Colonel to those not familiar with military lingo) with 12 years of service: Base pay: $85,584 BAH: $ 16,128 (without dependents. more like $21,000 with)
Overall pay: $101,712. Heck, that even beats a McDonald's executive director!
Ahh I had exams today so I was studying my ass off last night... but WOW so much information to digest here T_T. thanks for the info guys. I'll try to come up with an intelligent post tomorrow as I still have some questions; I want to be as informed as possible before talking to a recruiter so I can tell if he is either lying or withholding information.
quick question: tenryu what's your job in the army and how is it?
edit: thanks again everyone for your information/opinions! I appreciate the time you took to respond and help me out and voicing your concerns/opinions as to why I should join or not.
Definitely take a lot of shit recruiters have to say with a grain of salt. I have a buddy who joined the airforce and was told all sorts of great shit. He was pretty smart in high school, but his family is pretty poor so he figured it would be easier to join military.
Don't make mistakes he did like signing for 6 years, expecting a job you want, and dont expect you will get any of your top choices for where you will be based.
Some things about the infantry (coming from a man who has gone this path):
- You will deploy, you will 'go out,' you will shoot people, you will get shot at, you will lose friends (if not killed, then maimed), you will work shitty hours, you will live in substandard conditions (in comparison to your pampered civilian life), you will question your government's intentions and the legality and point of the war, and you will lose a piece of your humanity.
- At the same time, you will develop friends for life, you will acquire raw life experience and adjusted perspectives on life and death, and you will be much more thankful for EVERYTHING, among other things.
- Do not go regular infantry. Do yourself favor, join a higher-caliber group of individuals and do not settle for mediocrity. If you aren't in line to be heading to one of these units, I HIGHLY recommend you fix that now. Don't be, may months down the road, doing presence patrols in broad daylight instead of out kicking doors in and taking it to the enemy with a higher caliber group of individuals.
- Expect weeping and gnashing of teeth for your first year. Basic training especially is fucking stupid and terrible. This is coming from a person who has graduated from Ranger School. You're stuck with a bunch of fucking idiot kids, in an environment that restricts you from expressing any sort of individuality and away from all the emotional comforts of your home, while being treated like dog shit and told what to do 24/7. The things that kept me from completely losing it were letters from home and knack for daydreaming. This one girl in particular used to lace her letters with perfume... they drove me through the fucking roof. Smelling something so sweet in such an intellectually and emotionally draining environment kept me intact. That's how detached I was.
- As far as money is concerned, it's a lot better than the general public makes it out to be. Unless you are absolutely lost in managing your money, you will live quite comfortably, as far as amenities go. Deployment will make your pockets especially full.
That's all I could think of right now. If anything sounds a little over dramatic, then I apologize. I'm a pretty passionate person when I have even an ounce of alcohol in me. Good luck in your decisions, and don't hesitate to ask me anything
Yes, the fact that I didn't use the right military lingo completely negates the fact that military pay for your average dude is dick. $29k + housing to put your life on the line every day. You can make that money doing so many other completely unskilled things and not have to worry about some homemade bomb blowing your legs across the street
but i understand ppl going to military cause im thinking about it too, im waking up early and go run and every second day i got gym for last 2 years. i feel really good and healthy. i dont like that idea that you should fight for your stupid country problems in Irak or so on but i like that idea about being healthy and can take care of your family what ever happend
On September 17 2010 21:43 Hawk wrote: Yes, the fact that I didn't use the right military lingo completely negates the fact that military pay for your average dude is dick. $29k + housing to put your life on the line every day. You can make that money doing so many other completely unskilled things and not have to worry about some homemade bomb blowing your legs across the street
Im going to have to go against you on this one as well.
You are still lowballing the salary of military members.
$29k
Housing - or money for housing so you can live where you want with extra to pay for utilities.
Utilities
Food - $3,886 a year, grociery stores are tax free and on average 25% below cost of civilian, so that food allowance would be worth about $1,165 cash in pocket after food.
Health care - no deductions on check, even if you get health care through your employer in a good HMO and your employer pays a good percentage of it you probably still pay $200 a month for it, or $2,400 a year, so deduct that for civilian wages.
Education - $4,500 per year while active to take classes as well as ( I did a mock benefit for myself at a local college) the GI Bill which in its first year alone would give me $16,079 for school tuition and living arangements, note that only 1 class has to be physicaly taken at the school, the rest can be online.
Bonuses - RIght now I had the oppotunity to take a $20k enlistment bonus but chose not to take it and took a job as 68w (health care specialist, aka combat medic)
Clothing Allowance
One major flaw in your thinking as well is "$29k + housing to put your life on the line every day." You are not in a combat zone for 4 years straight. You may end up somewhere dangerous you may not. Most likely with his hope of infantry based jobs he would be. But the MAJORITY of your military life will not be in a hostile enviornment.
Plus when you are in a combat zone you pay ZERO taxes on all income earned, including re-enlistment bonuses. You also recieve, Combat area pay and Seperation pay which can come out to around $500 a month or $6,000 on a one year deployment. Honestly there is more then this also but these are most common ones.
Finaly your Mcdonalds salary is just plain rediculous. Crew members (the most common position at a MCD's) is about $7.50 an hour, thats $15600 or about half of the military member's base salary alone. (this was based on my area)
The only position at a MCD's that would make more then the military member's base would be the store manager.
EPT
