Hello TL this is my 2nd blog post and I usually try not to post unless I feel I need to.
Well i'll get straight to the point. I am thinking of enlisting in the military, not sure what branch yet but i'm leaning toward the Army and possibly Marines. The reason is this: I am 21 years old, been in a community college for 3 years, don't have a job ( hadn't had one since my freshman year of HS), and I feel like I am wasting my parent's time/money (I am dependent on them). My dad talked to me earlier in the week and told me that in the next semester (january) that I would have to start getting loans as they will not pay for my college anymore.
I was starting to feel this way already, because I am not sure what I want to do in my life; I went into college because I felt like I had to and being in college was better than not right (lol TT)? So in my mind going into the military would help me get my life together w/o wasting my parents time/money and also from what I understand they can help pay for your college once you get out; plus I think if I die in service my parents get the life insurance money? In my mind these are some of the pros of going through with this decision; the cons that I can think of are: you could die when you get shipped out, also I heard they can extend your service w/o your consent or something like that.
So if there is anyone who is or was or just knows about this stuff, I have some questions:
1. I kind of researched online a little about this and one of the things i'm worried about is the test that we have to take? the AVSAB/AFQT (or w/e) is the test hard and how difficult would it be for a HS graduate? And how much should I study for it?
2. What are some other pros/cons of enlisting in the military? As you can see I haven't really looked into yet but really considering it, so I want to be informed of the pros/cons before I make this huge, life changing decision.
3. Also what branch should I think of enlisting in? Right now my knowledge of the different branches is limited as to what job opportunities they would have but I know I do not want to be in the Coast Guard, Reserve, or National Guard. This sound stupid but I want to also get out and see the world (so possibly Navy). Like I said earlier I am leaning toward the Army, because if I enlisted I am thinking of just being an infantryman or a combat medic.
These are just some of the questions I have so far and I know I should see a recruiter, but I want to be informed as much as possible before I step into the devil's lair (haha XD). Any criticism you guys have, please keep it civil/manner and if there are reasons as to why I should/shouldn't join please do so.
Hopefully you guys can help as TL's member's come from different walks of life and I would like to hear the (well-informed) responses from people on why I should/shouldn't join and what other information they can tell me.
You go to the military if you believe that's really what would suit you. That's something I personally don't understand at all, but there are some people who apparently like the whole thing.
Going to the army just because you don't really see other option right now is the worst thing to do. If you are conscious that you waste your parents money, work really hard and you'll make yourself a situation in life.
The only person I know who went to French army is a friend of an ex gf, who went for the Para's commandos, the most hardcore section of French army infantry. The day he woke up in the middle of his colleagues puke (good joke for the newcomer, haha?), he deserted, got researched, and shot himself.
Now, that's just a story of one guy, and I don't know which kind of person you are. But seriously, I believe everybody on earth has better things to do than getting killed or fighting for an unknown cause against people you don't share anything with and who have good reason to hate you in Irak or Afghanistan. That's just not very sexy.
If your recruiter makes you a promise, there is something you need to do before the end of the recruiting process. GET THAT PROMISE IN WRITING. This especially applies to Marine recruiters. Just make sure that you get it in writing before you sign anything binding.
1. The test is not difficult. If you got above a 1200 (out of 1600) on the SAT, you should do fine on the non-mechanical parts. If you didn't, there are study guides out for it.
2. The big pro is that if you aren't married, you'll likely have more money than you really need. An army life is a pretty comfortable one, financially. It's tougher if you have a family to support, but tax-free shopping, really cheap food at the commissary, and a housing allowance makes your situation much, much more manageable than if you were working retail or something similar.
Another pro is that you get out what you put into the military. It's pretty much a pure meritocracy, with some exceptions.
3. It's up to you. Well, actually, one word of advice: Shoot for a job that's not just regular infantry. My impression is that any kind of specialization that you achieve in the military makes you a more important cog in the wheel of the machine (which can be good for self-esteem when you're out in the middle of the desert) and will lead to you learning more skills, which can be applied to your job search post-military.
It's actually sort of baffling to me how many people just accept a job as an infantryman.
Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
i just signed up today, not even joking. i took the asvab yesterday and that shit is pretty easy. i just graduated from highschool and have had no further education and i got in the 97 percentile. As long as you get above like 50 percentile, which you will like no problem, you are pretty much good to go. also there are parts of the quiz that are like electronics, visual stuff, and other mechanical things (like car parts and simple physics sort of things) but these parts dont go into your percentile at the end so dont worry if you dont know shit on this part. you might score low in these areas but it's really no biggy. no studying required for the test, just go take it and you will do well. if you enlist you can get $45k a year in financial aid for college, there is the possibility you will get deployed though which can interrupt your education. if you score well on the asvab my recruiter told me to either go into military intelligence, something mechanical, or being a medic as these will give you really good skills and you can immediately get a job right out of the army. the army offers the most careers in terms of all the branches. if you join now you probably won't even have to go to basic until like january/february cuz people dont generally get sent to basic this time of year with thanksgiving and christmas coming up.
the guys at the recruiting center i went to were really chill and they were really honest with me and they really try to help you out. you can go take the asvab and shit and then if you decide not to you can walk away. just whatever you do, don't join then quit later as it completely fucks over your recruiter, so really think before you join (dont be like "oh i can just quit later")
so yeah, just go to the recruiter station and tell them you are interested in joining. they will answer all your questions pretty truthfully (at least they did in my case, be careful though and try to be skeptical of everything they say).
Honestly, I thought alot like you. I took quite a lot of time off after high school just shitting around. Then I was sorta pushed to go to a local community college. I did, after a year, I didn't have much to show for it, I fucking hated it, wasted over $2k on it. I knew I wasn't going back to college, least not for awhile so I filled out job apps all over, noyone was hiring I guess.
I had the same thought, mind as well try the military. I decided on the Air Force. Went through MEPs, worked my ass off getting in shape before I went, only to to get there and be leaving 3 weeks later. Dunno, I hated it. I quickly realized the first time I had a T.I screaming in my face that I really had no reason to be there, no motivation. I had simply signed up because I was bored and had nothing to do.
Nowadays I still kinda kick myself for not putting much effort into it (my ASVAB scores were quite high, so I qualified for a bunch of jobs that would have been nice).
I would really suggest you research everything you can, the recruiters won't tell you everything you really need to know (though, mine was actually pretty cool). Read the UCMJ, that shit will be your bible while you are in, if you have any problems with anything in it, don't bother signing up in the first place.
Also, why would you want to be a grunt? with some college experience you can easily sign up for the Air Force, and Navy, both infinitely safer. I have a cousin that just got back from Afghanistan, another that will be going later this year, and its scary shit. Have you talked to your family about this, and how they feel if you were to get deployed? It is a huge burden to put on your family.
Also for your questions:
1. I kind of researched online a little about this and one of the things i'm worried about is the test that we have to take? the AVSAB/AFQT (or w/e) is the test hard and how difficult would it be for a HS graduate? And how much should I study for it?
I barely studied. If you REALLY want to you can get a study book, its alot like the ones they have for the SAT's. It is stupidly easy though, incredibly basic. They have the odd question about shit like cars, electronics, etc. so if you took any vocational classes in high school it would come in handy. Overall I dont know, they have alot of info on Wiki about it. How much you study is up to you, its pretty general knowledge stuff, either you know it or you don't.
2. What are some other pros/cons of enlisting in the military? As you can see I haven't really looked into yet but really considering it, so I want to be informed of the pros/cons before I make this huge, life changing decision.
Well, the pro's for me were pretty simple. They pay for college, you get free housing (if you stay on base), if you live off base then they give you a housing alowance to help pay for it. Free medical/dental. My dad is retired navy so I used to have Tricare Prime, which was fucking amazing. Also, the opportunity to travel is pretty big with people, personally I lived in Scotland and Spain while my dad was in, it was definantly a once in a lifetime experience.
The con's are pretty clear. First and formost, if you are in the Marines, Army, or National Gaurd, you have the highest possibility of all the branches to get deployed to hostile areas (Afghanistan). They tell you what to do, if they tell you to cook, or clean up shit, or scrub floors, you will do it or get shafted up the ass. Also I hope you don't value privacy because there is no such thing while you are in.
3. Also what branch should I think of enlisting in? Right now my knowledge of the different branches is limited as to what job opportunities they would have but I know I do not want to be in the Coast Guard, Reserve, or National Guard. This sound stupid but I want to also get out and see the world (so possibly Navy). Like I said earlier I am leaning toward the Army, because if I enlisted I am thinking of just being an infantryman or a combat medic.
I really thing you should try to get into the Air Force first, which should'nt be an issue for you (unless you have a tattoo, they are pretty anal about that). The Navy is also a solid choice, though be prepared to be out at sea for months at a time your first year or so. If you like the ocean alot I guess Navy would be cool. Coast Gaurd, I have heard good things about, but I personally don't know anyone who served in it.
Once again I really implore you to rethink joining the marines/army. If you want to be a medic that bad, you could always try for a Corpsman in the Navy.
i'd do it. i'm actually considering this also, not as an easy way to get money or a career, it seems like a very interesting learning experience.
really, don't let anyone discourage your decisions.
as said before even it is an easy option, daa-daa-da, you'll go through an entirely different experience, nothing like you ever have before (from what i heard).
doing something rather than doing nothing is still progression.
On September 16 2010 07:29 Scorcher2k wrote: Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
Funny, if it wasn't for the money US military wouldn't even have enough troops to cut lawns around their barracks. This is so idealistic and crazy it made me smile. Most people in the military are the ones that couldn't make it on the outside or had the worst luck ever. You will hear countless stories from people with ruined credit history, criminals, potheads etc.
Well, I'll start by saying I think you are doing the right thing by researching it first. I myself am going into the Air Force for pararescue. You may have seen the episode on Surviving the Cut... I can't tell you how much I am looking forward to this, but it is something I have thoroughly researched. It also isn't quite the same as enlisting for a "regular" job. The reason I say that is because when you first enlist and you get through basic, you aren't done yet with your training. You go to your tech school or whatever, but they still treat you like a child. There are some pretty good reasons for this (think of all the kids fresh out of high school getting paychecks), but if you're not fresh out of high school I can't imagine it being all that great. When I get to indocrination, they're not going to treat me like a kid. I'll have to man up, or quit. It'll be awhile before you'll be "on your own."
There are a lot of good reasons to join, but I think you need to find jobs that interest you. The ASVAB is easy if you've gotten a decent education. I studied 4 hours just to get in test mode, and I got perfect scores. So, figure out what you might want to do and make sure you qualify for it with test scores and physical ability (i.e. vision, medical history, fitness).
Realize that you are not just starting a regular job, the military will own your ass. You can't quit, until your enlistment runs out. The part about them keeping you for longer is called "stop loss" I believe. They can hold you for longer, but considering that Iraq is drawing down and Afghanistan may cool down a bit in the next few years... it might not be very common to be extended. I think only the Army and Marines extended anyone. Just be aware that it could happen. You aren't entitled to very much. When you pick a job, you will likely get a slot and everything for it, but if something goes wrong (you fail tech school, you are medically DQed) they can move you wherever they want, as far as I know.
The Air Force has the best standard of living, hands down (aka Chair Force). It is also really difficult to get into right now, unless you qualify for a job where they need people. The Navy is difficult to get into as well, but they need SEALs and people going to their nuclear programs. Not sure what else is a big need for them. I heard the Fleet sucks though. At least from people who didn't make it through BUD/S and forever regretted quitting. Army and Marines have poorer standards of living. A whole lot more opportunities in the Army I believe and it is easier to get into . Marines are... Marines? They have that whole attitude thing going on and they slay dragons on commercials and have good looking uniforms. Maybe you'd look good in a high and tight? If you want to be a medic, the Navy has corpsman as well.
No one can really tell you whether you should or should not join. Make that decision for yourself. Just learn as much as you can about it, so you don't wind up somewhere you never thought you'd be. For me, I have no interest in being anything other than a pararescueman and hopefully that gives me some of the motivation I need to make it through training and beyond.
Go see all the services' recruiters. They'll just ask you the basic questions to see if they should even waste their time on you. Then you'll take a practice ASVAB, which takes 15 minutes so then they can see what jobs that you might even qualify for. Of course they have their own agenda, but at least you'll see what is out there and if you can even get in in the first place.
I know my post is very unorganized, but I hope I helped some. Also, I'm certainly no expert, so take what I wrote with a grain of salt. If you have any other questions, shoot.
Thanks for the replies so far guys it has helped me see some things I never thought of before.
@Biff
Good point about just working hard to improve my situation. The thing is I have to be motivated to work hard/strive for something. Right now I am unsure about staying in college as the current degree I was working towards (BS in nursing) I find hard to motivate myself to continue doing as I do not enjoy/not interested in taking those classes (I only chose that major because that's what my parents want me to do). I only have like 7(?) classes completed so far in it so yeah. But your response has helped me think more about my motivations in enlisting and I am sure to think more deeply about it.
@motbob Ahh were you in the military? if so what service? Also the part about getting things in writing is one of the things that has me hesitant. It seems like I have to hold up my end of the bargain while they can fuck you over if they want. Which is also why I am trying to be informed as much as possible before I talk to a recruiter. I am thinking of doing something medical, but only because I don't know what other specializations they have. @Scorcher
As much as I would love to do that, it would be difficult for me to take a year off as I do not have a job. I have been looking/applying to many places the last 2 years and so far my lack of work experience is really kicking my ass (I haven't worked since my freshman year in HS and that was as a semi-janitor after school with other kids). I hope that sometime this semester (sooner than later) I find something that I am interested in/passionate about to pursue.
@Nitrogen
Yeah I looked at some of the study guides for the ASVAB at a bookstore last night and the parts that scared me were the mechanical, electronics, and visual stuff (I think there were others but I forgot which)because I am shit at anything mechanical (I had no vocational classes in HS). From what I got in the beginning of the book, it says that you don't have to worry about scoring high in these subtests unless you are actually going to be like a mechanic/maintenance... I think. Also a question about that 45k a year to help pay for college, does that only apply WHILE you are in service or after? Can't they just keep deploying you to keep you busy (I guess this is why I shouldn't be a grunt? XD)? But your post had some good info thx!
@Enki I am considering Air Force and Navy too its just that I don't know that much about those branches. I heard that mostly smart people get into those branches compared to the Army/Marines. Also I don't know what jobs a person can have in those branches; like I said I am uninformed about those branches ( research time!). As for me being a medic I don't know why I wanted to be that, but in HS I really really wanted to be one. I guess maybe some inner desire to be wanted/needed? Or to help save someone? rofl I don't know.
@GreyCone holy shit I just wikipedia'd your job. Wow pararescue sounds so hardcore lol. Their training sounds hella tough too. but I guess if you're saving lives you'd want someone well trained instead of a scrub right? XD
Also what are the minimum requirements for getting into the Navy or Air Force? I never took the SAT to get into college only the CPT tests once I was in the community college. Also getting a perfect score on the ASVAB must've been something! what did the recruiters say about your score? from the looks of it, it seems like a high score opens up soooo many job oppurtunities in the military. Also for the physical/fitness test did they have u do a circuit of physical activities? And do you have to pass it in order to get in? Im not that physically in shape right now so I am planning to start running/working out in the next 3 months to get in shape. But I also think there are some medical jobs in the Army and Navy? Also if I was a corpsman it is to my understanding that I would be deployed with Marines? Haha my cousin was in the Navy he told some pretty interesting stories about his sailing life lol. but yeah I have until next semester to make a decision.
yeah don't worry about the mechanical parts and the visual part. the visual part is fucking impossible at the end because it keeps getting faster and faster. you're completely right though, the mechanical sections and electronics dont go into your asvab percentile at the end which is really what matters along with your line scores (individual sections). i have my test score report right next to me right now, the sections that count towards your AFQT percentile i believe are general science, arithmetic reasoning, word knowledge, paragraph comprehension and math knowledge. the extra sections are electronics info, autoshop, mechanical comprehension, assembling objects and the visual thingy. if you want the composite score sections for each branch of the military so you know what you have to do well on if you want to do a specific thing just let me know and i'll list them all out here.
i believe the 45k/year is just if you are in the army, but after you are out you get the GI bill (essentially if you pay like $100 each month for a year you get like 40-50k afterwords).
i have no idea about the whole contract continuation thing, i'll ask my recruiter tomorrow (going to take the d-lab!). i doubt they would purposely keep deploying you just so you wouldn't go to college though. once your contract is done you are in the reserve i believe, so i guess technically you can be deployed.
also remember if you take the asvab and your recruiter shows you all the jobs available on his computer, those aren't the only jobs. the one i'm going for (35 whiskey) wasn't listed but your recruiter can just call some people up and ask if there are any available. a guy near me in the recruiting station got a 68 whiskey (combat medic) job even though it wasn't listed after he took the asvab. also as long as you score above 60 on the asvab you will have the same job options as someone who got 99 pretty much.
for the physical when getting accepted into the military you don't have to be in shape at all, just be healthy pretty much. the physical is kinda weird though, you have to do all these weird walks when you're in your underwear in front of like 50 other guys to show that you don't have any health problems or anything. then they do a piss test and a blood test etc. one of the guys at my recruiting station i was talking to said he could do like 2 pushups when he went to basic, so you don't really have to be in shape at all, just healthy like i said. he also said you'll see lotsa fat people there so really don't worry about what kind of shape you're in before basic or the physical or anything.
Is the army really what you want? Have you given a thought about what are you going to do longterm? I can't imagine how many people in the same situation as you are end up in the army, hopefully you don't end up there.
On September 16 2010 07:29 Scorcher2k wrote: Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
Funny, if it wasn't for the money US military wouldn't even have enough troops to cut lawns around their barracks. This is so idealistic and crazy it made me smile. Most people in the military are the ones that couldn't make it on the outside or had the worst luck ever. You will hear countless stories from people with ruined credit history, criminals, potheads etc.
And you also have people like Colin Powell who was admittedly an unmotivated C average kid before joining the military. While a lot of the experience is out of your control, like anything in life every person can make something different out of it.
Since you've already been in college for 3 years, why don't you finish up and apply to be an officer instead? Your school may even have an ROTC program you can join which might pay for the rest of your education. It's worth checking out at least.
i like all the detailed responses to OP, TL is so helpful <3
i personally have no experience on this topic, but i've heard from my sister (her fiance is in the US navy) that they're going to get a lot of benefits when he's done his training. i'm not sure, but i think he's in nuke school, and is getting paid a good amount to study with the navy, and i think they will also help him + my sister when they get married with their college educations.
if you don't know what you want to do with your life, i'm not sure that the military is the best place to figure out what you want to do. however, you will probably get a lot of benefits that will help you pay for your college education now that your parents aren't going to help you with it. plus, i'm sure that it will be an invaluable experience that will help you throughout your life, regardless of what you choose to do after that.
honestly, i think you should go to a recruiter for answers on these questions. after you get those answers, you can go home and reconsider enlisting in the military. just don't let the recruiter pressure you into enlisting before you're sure about this.
On September 16 2010 07:29 Scorcher2k wrote: Don't do it just as a seemingly easy next step or something for money. Going into the military should be something you do when you feel that the military is your calling imo. Why not just take a year off from school, get a job, save up money and think about what you want to do. Maybe backpack europe or something. Get some life experience to help you find your calling.
Funny, if it wasn't for the money US military wouldn't even have enough troops to cut lawns around their barracks. This is so idealistic and crazy it made me smile. Most people in the military are the ones that couldn't make it on the outside or had the worst luck ever. You will hear countless stories from people with ruined credit history, criminals, potheads etc.
Those "most people" also sign up on a whim. They don't post on a starcraft community site looking for insight and/or opinions. There is nothing crazy about being idealistic either.
As much as I would love to do that, it would be difficult for me to take a year off as I do not have a job. I have been looking/applying to many places the last 2 years and so far my lack of work experience is really kicking my ass (I haven't worked since my freshman year in HS and that was as a semi-janitor after school with other kids). I hope that sometime this semester (sooner than later) I find something that I am interested in/passionate about to pursue.
Jobs are certainly hard in most places to find. I just really wanted to throw out more ideas as it seems like you feel as if you're backed into a corner from your post. There are also things like environmental work where they pay you a little bit and provide room/board to do it or the peace core. The benefits certainly aren't there but it's just another choice. Please don't take this as me being some kind of anti military/goverment hippie or something. I have close friends who have done both and they have had mixed experiences with both as well. So again, just trying to throw out some ideas. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
I remember taking the ASVAB in high school to get out of a Biology AP Exam and remembering how easy it was. i made something like a 97, 98 or 99 something in that manner. Its an incredibly easy test and the only part i didn't really know about was the Car and Mechanics part as I'm not really into car parts and what not.
From advice from my friends who joined the armed forces, try getting as many benefits as you can from those recruiters. They will offer you a base amount of benefits but if you talk with them saying how its not worth it or how you need some time to think, they can give you some more money or whatever in order to entice you to sign with them that day because they know if you dont sign up that day, most likely you'll never set foot in their recruitment office ever again. My best friend's brother got about 5-8K cash extra when he signed up.
Guess I'll give some input. This will be geared towards the Army.
1. The asvab is too easy. If you had 3 years of community college, you should be fine. Go review those sat study guide book for a day, and you'll exceed the standard. You only need a GT score of 110 and you will qualify for majority of jobs. Seriously, 10th, 11th graders take it and do well on it. Don't sweat it.
2. Pro/con of military depends all on you, the branch you in, the job, etc. Pro: healthcare, steady pay check, GI Bill. Con: minimum freedom/rights, long hours, etc
3. You said you wanted to explore the world and want to be an infantryman or medic. I'll tell you right now, you won't be enjoying the world with a job as infantryman. Pick another job. Also, as far as know, in the army the only major overseas assignment stations are in Korea, Germany, and Italy. As a new recruit, you can't pick a duty station, normally. Now, there are exceptions to everything.. If you still want a cool job like infantryman and want to explore the world, ie. third world countries and also have a lil heart and somewhat fit, go tell your recruiter you want 18X contract.
Only real tip for you is to sign your contract only, ONLY for 3 years. No 4, 5, 6 year bull shit. Regardless of bonus amount, you could always re-enlist if you like it then and get the bonus.
Uh, there are 4 year, or 6 year enlistment contracts, Also, at least in 2008 when I was signing up, the Air Force was having 2 year contracts because so many people were already in it, staying in, and trying to get in. No idea if it changed since then though, I would guess not.
Regardless of your enlistment though, you are obligated for 8 years, which means after your 4 or 6 years are up, you will still be in a reserve unit for the remainder of the time.
Go see all recruiters of all branches. Even the coast guard. They do some pretty interesting stuff in the Gulf of Mexico like drug interdiction. Once you get all your info, make a well informed decision with your parents. Its not my place to say but i think you owe them that much seeing how they paid for the first three years of your college education.
Once you get out theres the post 9/11 Montgomery GI Bill which will pay for your education. I dont know too much about it so i suggest you research into it. Plus military service looks good on a resume.
Try not to delve on the dying or the life insurance at all. No parent deserves to go through the death of their child.
EPT
