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Hmm.. Ive been Active Army for almost 6 years now and i dont regret it one bit. Just remember, if you treat the army good, they will treat you good. If your single you live in the barracks, which really isnt that bad at all. The army is slowly progressing into having civilians run the barracks instead of your chain of command. Of course you have random inspections and stuff, but if u dont let small stuff like that bother you, you'll be banking some cash.
Um.. the GI Bill is amazing. You can always ask a recruiter more about it. The army helps pay for college while your still active as well. If you do that however, i recommend just taking 1 course at a time, just the basic stuff. Then when you get out you can use your GI Bill to go learn whatever you really wanna learn.
ASVAB is easy. Your local recruiting station should have classes or some lessons which can help you prepare for it.
The army isnt for anyone however. Most people make it seem worse then it really is from my experience though. Alot of it depends on the unit your stationed at as well. Some units can make Army life glorious, others can make it feel like hell. And then obviously since we're at war right now, you will be going to Afghanistan. Some people dont have problems with it but if you do, then i suggest you rethink going Infantry(unless you really want to do that).
I would suggest a field more into Signal, (communications and networking shit) rather than combatives. Infantry, field artillery, etc.. you wont learn anything that will help you out in the real world. Anyways, i gtg now. I'll post some more shit later.
Good luck
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Recruiters are bullshit. Don't listen to them—you are just a number once you're in, and you go where more numbers are needed. Listen to friends actually in service. You'll obviously need to talk to a recruiter at some point to sign the papers, but sure as shit don't listen to them for any actual advice. They're trying to fill quotas.
The test is also a joke. Don't even fret that. You'll notice your average military dude isn't a rocket scientist. If you have a HS education, you will pass.
Branch is entirely dependent on what you wanna do. See shit and be safe: Navy or AF. Wanna be a number or meat for the grinder?? Go marines or army, or anything that will land you on the ground in Afghanistan/iraq. Almost all branches all for some kind of education while in service, and you get funding for when you are out. Dunno specifics about that though.
But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay? The biggest perk education pay. The rest blows. God forbid you get ill or injured. Look how many veterans get fuckin boned by the govt. when trying to collect and get health benefits. The govt. can give two shits about you unless they can use you in some kind of operation, or they can use you as a gushy light hearted PR piece about how you were a hero, save 5 comrades and got your legs blown off.
If you're cool with that, go for it. But just know what you;re gettin in to.
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because I am not sure what I want to do in my life; I went into college because I felt like I had to and being in college was better than not right (lol TT)? So in my mind going into the military would help me get my life together w/o wasting my parents time/money and also from what I understand they can help pay for your college once you get out; plus I think if I die in service my parents get the life insurance money?
I really hope you are doing this for yourself, and not for your parents.
Your parents ain't paying you anything soon, but i wonder how would they react to this idea. I bet they would rather help you financially till you find a job than having you in a 'danger' when you get shipped. (what will most likely happen(?). Or the worst scenario, when you get killed.
So think twice what you want to do. Do you want to try to get a job harder, or do you want to go to the army. I myself, would ask my parents opinion about it, or atleast tell them early what you have decided, but thats just me.
I don't know shit about army life or the experience because i haven't been there or even live in US. But its pretty clearly what i would do and consider in this situation.
I Think Hawk's post was pretty good, and you should definitely read that. And you probably will.
Good luck, whatever will be your choice!
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Some of these posts piss me off generally because its mainly from people who have never first hand experienced the military or they listen to their friends who hate it. And most of the time thats because of the individual themself. The military isnt for everyone like i mentioned earlier. So yeah, make sure you make a decision you wont regret. To others, the military is a stepping stone. Atleast it was and still is for me.
The army has a wider variety of MOS choices than any other branch. Yes, you will be deployed. Yes you might see combat and get mortared ever so often. That goes for all branches. Its the military.
On September 17 2010 02:44 Hawk wrote:
But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay?
This is the most ignorant statement ive seen. You know how many friends ive made in the Army? That i even still keep in touch with? Do you know how many "friends" ive had back home after i left that i realized were complete losers and held me back from alot of shit?
And individuality? I dont even understand what you were trying to say right there. You think their's no privacy in the military? Oh no, a room inspection.. big fucking deal. Unless you live like a nasty fuck who cant take care of themselves, then yeah.. you might not like it.
Shit pay? Most people STAY in the army because of the benefits and the pay(especially married soldiers!). What other job is there that pays you 24/7, even when your on leave(vacation)? What other job provides you 3 meals a day, everyday of the week? What other job provides you a place to live(which arent as bad as what people claim, the room im living in right now is nice as fuck)? Yeah ill agree the pay isnt that high, but the benefits out of it are amazing. Only bills i got are my insurance, cable, and cellphone. The army does take care of its people if you take care of it.
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I would recommend looking into a job that has a career path after the military. You may be gung ho and decide on getting 30 years in, or you may decide that 4 was more than you ever should have sign up for.
There are jobs that are fun while you're in that won't put you in a particularly good place when you leave, and jobs that will leave you looking good in the civilian world.
I'm in the Navy, so I can give you a few examples of jobs with good post Navy career potential:
IT: Computer specialist. Pretty much always in demand outside, and you can take away a valuable skillset
Nuke: If you can make it through the school, civilian employers will pretty much think you're the shit coming out, especially since the reality is you're only a year and a half away from being a high-school graduate
ET: Electronics technician. Good for a lot of electrical/electronic repair specialties on the outside.
Of course a lot depends on what you do while you're in (being a lazy piece of shit while you're in won't get you anywhere on the outside). The basic idea is think of what you're going to do outside of the Navy with your rating. There isn't much demand for Aviation warfare types and gunner's mates outside the service, so you'll pretty much have to talk up the fact that you were in at all.
Also, LS is the easiest rate in the Navy
Also, IT is still the best if you're set on Army ^^
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On September 17 2010 05:30 Tenryu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 02:44 Hawk wrote:
But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay?
This is the most ignorant statement ive seen. You know how many friends ive made in the Army? That i even still keep in touch with? Do you know how many "friends" ive had back home after i left that i realized were complete losers and held me back from alot of shit? And individuality? I dont even understand what you were trying to say right there. You think their's no privacy in the military? Oh no, a room inspection.. big fucking deal. Unless you live like a nasty fuck who cant take care of themselves, then yeah.. you might not like it. Shit pay? Most people STAY in the army because of the benefits and the pay(especially married soldiers!). What other job is there that pays you 24/7, even when your on leave(vacation)? What other job provides you 3 meals a day, everyday of the week? What other job provides you a place to live(which arent as bad as what people claim, the room im living in right now is nice as fuck)? Yeah ill agree the pay isnt that high, but the benefits out of it are amazing. Only bills i got are my insurance, cable, and cellphone. The army does take care of its people if you take care of it.
That was actually supposed to say freedom, dunno where that came from
And uh, yeah, there's a just.... tad bit less individuality and freedom in the military. I don't even see how you can argue that. It's much more than 'wanting to live like a nasty fuck'. Wanna sleep in? Tough shit. Wanna go home and relax?? Tough shit, you're in Iraq. Ever heard of don't ask, don't tell??
regarding pay, let's take a look, shall we??
http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_LG12000015.html
Median for Army Staff Sgt: $29,608 (you probably don't wanna even look at enlisted pay)
http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-Mcdonalds
Average salary at McDonalds: $34,000
Again, the benefits, the only thing that's awesome is the education funding. Most of the people in the military come from economically challenged backgrounds, so they'd probably qualify for assistance in the first place for school, so that's bunk. Not to mention, he doesn't even care for school, so the main perk is worthless to him.
Again, the health benefits and shit?? I'm sure you know a lot of old time Vets, just like I do. Go ask them how the govt. treats you after you're done serving them and you're crippled from getting shot, maimed or agent orange rots your balls.
Is the military good for some people?? Sure. I have a number of friends who love it, and the common trait between most of those dudes is that they are all adrenaline junkies and major patriots/career dudes who were inspired by a relative. But it's completely and totally disingenuous to pretend this shit is for everyone, that life on the inside is anything like civilian life in any way, or that the govt. actually gives a flying fuck about its Vets once they are done serving.
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On September 17 2010 07:51 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2010 05:30 Tenryu wrote:On September 17 2010 02:44 Hawk wrote:
But basically, it boils down to this: Are you cool with pissing away all your friends and indviduality for a dangerous job and shit pay?
This is the most ignorant statement ive seen. You know how many friends ive made in the Army? That i even still keep in touch with? Do you know how many "friends" ive had back home after i left that i realized were complete losers and held me back from alot of shit? And individuality? I dont even understand what you were trying to say right there. You think their's no privacy in the military? Oh no, a room inspection.. big fucking deal. Unless you live like a nasty fuck who cant take care of themselves, then yeah.. you might not like it. Shit pay? Most people STAY in the army because of the benefits and the pay(especially married soldiers!). What other job is there that pays you 24/7, even when your on leave(vacation)? What other job provides you 3 meals a day, everyday of the week? What other job provides you a place to live(which arent as bad as what people claim, the room im living in right now is nice as fuck)? Yeah ill agree the pay isnt that high, but the benefits out of it are amazing. Only bills i got are my insurance, cable, and cellphone. The army does take care of its people if you take care of it. That was actually supposed to say freedom, dunno where that came from And uh, yeah, there's a just.... tad bit less individuality and freedom in the military. I don't even see how you can argue that. It's much more than 'wanting to live like a nasty fuck'. Wanna sleep in? Tough shit. Wanna go home and relax?? Tough shit, you're in Iraq. Ever heard of don't ask, don't tell?? regarding pay, let's take a look, shall we?? http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_LG12000015.htmlMedian for Army Staff Sgt: $29,608 (you probably don't wanna even look at enlisted pay) http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-McdonaldsAverage salary at McDonalds: $34,000 Again, the benefits, the only thing that's awesome is the education funding. Most of the people in the military come from economically challenged backgrounds, so they'd probably qualify for assistance in the first place for school, so that's bunk. Not to mention, he doesn't even care for school, so the main perk is worthless to him. Again, the health benefits and shit?? I'm sure you know a lot of old time Vets, just like I do. Go ask them how the govt. treats you after you're done serving them and you're crippled from getting shot, maimed or agent orange rots your balls. Is the military good for some people?? Sure. I have a number of friends who love it, and the common trait between most of those dudes is that they are all adrenaline junkies and major patriots/career dudes who were inspired by a relative. But it's completely and totally disingenuous to pretend this shit is for everyone, that life on the inside is anything like civilian life in any way, or that the govt. actually gives a flying fuck about its Vets once they are done serving.
In a strange twist, it turns out that a Staff Sergeant actually is an Enlisted rank! (oopsies)
Not to mention comparing the BASE pay of a military man to the overall take home of a McDonald's employee is ridiculous. For one, the statistic you threw out includes titles like "Architectural Drafter" "Executive Director" and "Director of Sales and Managing", so is not an average of a McDonald's minimum wage employee, which is clearly what you intended to convey.
So, what you've proven so far is that an enlisted man takes home BASE what an average employee in McDonald's corporate ladder takes home.
But wait, there's more! The Base Pay of the said ENLISTED Staff Sergeant is his pay. On top of this he's entitled to: Free housing, which in the form of BAH, this would likely net an average of $1400 a month (or a place to live, usually not as good, tbh), which is quite spiffy, bringing his pay up to $46,408 overall. Free food, which in the form of BAS would net an average of $320 a month(or free food from the um, whatever Army people call it) which brings him up to $50000, which is starting to look more like the salary of a mid level McDonald's corporate manager than that of a shift worker.
But there's more! US Military earnings are among the least taxed in the land. Only that base $29000 is taxable by Uncle Sam, leading to a much higher overall earnings for our Staff Sergeant that a McDonald's schmuck taking home 50 g's. And there are other pays that a soldier could be entitled to (such as hazard pay and separation pay).
All in all, the money in the Army seems to be quite good, despite the somber case made by the erstwhile Hawk.
So really there's two ways about it. You can listen to the people in the military who are saying it's pretty cool, or you can listen to a shill who doesn't know the difference between officer and enlisted, and obviously has something against the military.
And for fun, we'll say a O-6 (that's an Officer Pay Grade 6, or a Colonel to those not familiar with military lingo) with 12 years of service:
Base pay: $85,584
BAH: $ 16,128 (without dependents. more like $21,000 with)
Overall pay: $101,712. Heck, that even beats a McDonald's executive director!
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Ahh I had exams today so I was studying my ass off last night... but WOW so much information to digest here T_T. thanks for the info guys. I'll try to come up with an intelligent post tomorrow as I still have some questions; I want to be as informed as possible before talking to a recruiter so I can tell if he is either lying or withholding information.
quick question: tenryu what's your job in the army and how is it?
edit: thanks again everyone for your information/opinions! I appreciate the time you took to respond and help me out and voicing your concerns/opinions as to why I should join or not.
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Definitely take a lot of shit recruiters have to say with a grain of salt. I have a buddy who joined the airforce and was told all sorts of great shit. He was pretty smart in high school, but his family is pretty poor so he figured it would be easier to join military.
Don't make mistakes he did like signing for 6 years, expecting a job you want, and dont expect you will get any of your top choices for where you will be based.
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Some things about the infantry (coming from a man who has gone this path):
- You will deploy, you will 'go out,' you will shoot people, you will get shot at, you will lose friends (if not killed, then maimed), you will work shitty hours, you will live in substandard conditions (in comparison to your pampered civilian life), you will question your government's intentions and the legality and point of the war, and you will lose a piece of your humanity.
- At the same time, you will develop friends for life, you will acquire raw life experience and adjusted perspectives on life and death, and you will be much more thankful for EVERYTHING, among other things.
- Do not go regular infantry. Do yourself favor, join a higher-caliber group of individuals and do not settle for mediocrity. If you aren't in line to be heading to one of these units, I HIGHLY recommend you fix that now. Don't be, may months down the road, doing presence patrols in broad daylight instead of out kicking doors in and taking it to the enemy with a higher caliber group of individuals.
- Expect weeping and gnashing of teeth for your first year. Basic training especially is fucking stupid and terrible. This is coming from a person who has graduated from Ranger School. You're stuck with a bunch of fucking idiot kids, in an environment that restricts you from expressing any sort of individuality and away from all the emotional comforts of your home, while being treated like dog shit and told what to do 24/7. The things that kept me from completely losing it were letters from home and knack for daydreaming. This one girl in particular used to lace her letters with perfume... they drove me through the fucking roof. Smelling something so sweet in such an intellectually and emotionally draining environment kept me intact. That's how detached I was.
- As far as money is concerned, it's a lot better than the general public makes it out to be. Unless you are absolutely lost in managing your money, you will live quite comfortably, as far as amenities go. Deployment will make your pockets especially full.
That's all I could think of right now. If anything sounds a little over dramatic, then I apologize. I'm a pretty passionate person when I have even an ounce of alcohol in me. Good luck in your decisions, and don't hesitate to ask me anything
edit: no longer mass wall of text
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Yes, the fact that I didn't use the right military lingo completely negates the fact that military pay for your average dude is dick. $29k + housing to put your life on the line every day. You can make that money doing so many other completely unskilled things and not have to worry about some homemade bomb blowing your legs across the street
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he deserted, got researched, and shot himself.
this is little bit scary : /
but i understand ppl going to military cause im thinking about it too, im waking up early and go run and every second day i got gym for last 2 years. i feel really good and healthy. i dont like that idea that you should fight for your stupid country problems in Irak or so on but i like that idea about being healthy and can take care of your family what ever happend
EDIT: BTW what are you doing on that tests ?
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On September 17 2010 21:43 Hawk wrote:
Yes, the fact that I didn't use the right military lingo completely negates the fact that military pay for your average dude is dick. $29k + housing to put your life on the line every day. You can make that money doing so many other completely unskilled things and not have to worry about some homemade bomb blowing your legs across the street
Im going to have to go against you on this one as well.
You are still lowballing the salary of military members.
$29k
Housing - or money for housing so you can live where you want with extra to pay for utilities.
Utilities
Food - $3,886 a year, grociery stores are tax free and on average 25% below cost of civilian, so that food allowance would be worth about $1,165 cash in pocket after food.
Health care - no deductions on check, even if you get health care through your employer in a good HMO and your employer pays a good percentage of it you probably still pay $200 a month for it, or $2,400 a year, so deduct that for civilian wages.
Education - $4,500 per year while active to take classes as well as ( I did a mock benefit for myself at a local college) the GI Bill which in its first year alone would give me $16,079 for school tuition and living arangements, note that only 1 class has to be physicaly taken at the school, the rest can be online.
Bonuses - RIght now I had the oppotunity to take a $20k enlistment bonus but chose not to take it and took a job as 68w (health care specialist, aka combat medic)
Clothing Allowance
One major flaw in your thinking as well is "$29k + housing to put your life on the line every day."
You are not in a combat zone for 4 years straight. You may end up somewhere dangerous you may not. Most likely with his hope of infantry based jobs he would be. But the MAJORITY of your military life will not be in a hostile enviornment.
Plus when you are in a combat zone you pay ZERO taxes on all income earned, including re-enlistment bonuses. You also recieve, Combat area pay and Seperation pay which can come out to around $500 a month or $6,000 on a one year deployment. Honestly there is more then this also but these are most common ones.
Finaly your Mcdonalds salary is just plain rediculous.
Crew members (the most common position at a MCD's) is about $7.50 an hour, thats $15600 or about half of the military member's base salary alone. (this was based on my area)
The only position at a MCD's that would make more then the military member's base would be the store manager.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Salaries-E432.htm
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EPT
