so what's the deal with cheese? - Page 2

On August 23 2010 20:33 Vanka wrote:


lol if that were true, no one would cheese at diamond. Half my games are diamond, though I guess some people wouldn't classify terran one base all-ins as cheese since they take more than 5 minutes.

To OP


There's no reason you shouldn't be able to hold off 3 gate with 14 pool unless it's proxied really close to your base. 3 gate also means that the first zealot is going to come later than 2gate, which means you have more time to get up spines and lings. Not if you throw down the hatch after you scout, though. Start spamming lings, get your queen asap, and throw down some spines when you can afford it (need to make sure you can afford constant ling production as well). Send a couple lings at a time to his base to distract him and bide time, but leave most of the force at home until you either have enough defense to hold even if he attacks when you move out, or he goes in. If it doesn't look like your army by itself can hold, pull drones immediately until the spines that will presumable be building are up. If you hold without losing half your drones, you're significantly ahead.

You have to realize that 14 pool 15 hatch is a risky build, however. The "safe" ZvP build is not 10 pool or 8 pool or 6 pool, but speedling expo, which would deal with 3 gate no problem if you scout it in time.

The difference between diamond and silver does include preparation, though it also includes multitask, apm, decision making, and so on, but not in the sense that you mean. You have be aware that the opponent can cheese you, or exploit an vulnerability. Rather than give up, you should know your build well, and how your build reacts to rushes. For instance, I gave you a response to 3 gate. Against a bunker rush, you need to pull drones, against banshee, get another queen, and so on. You just need to know how to respond in what situations, and that just comes with practice and time, so don't give up and declare it unbeatable, because in most situations, it's not. There are very few auto-win situations in starcraft.

On August 24 2010 01:29 Hawk wrote:
Are you kidding?? There are tons of differences between silver and diamond. You proved it yourself by doing a dumb risky macro build, scouting late, noticing an obvious non-standard build and STILL dredged along with your dumb build. And then you get all indignant because he cheesed and you didn't bother to react.

Gee, I wonder what the issue is.

On August 24 2010 15:08 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

12000 + posts an that's the best you came up with? The OP was asking for constructive advice, he even included a replay which most people don't bother with. As a fellow silver player I have exactly the same problem as the OP, I love macro and late game but many times I never live to see it because of some cheesy build.

That beng said OP you should not have FEd after seeing nothing in his base, I'm a toss so I'm not to familiar with ling or spine timing but you should still be able to get enough units to defend if you start massing right when you scout his base.