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the world press sees this as a great accomplishment but being from where i am i must say that its just a political move from the govenment..
There have been at five "partys" that are opposed to the govenment (the media groups that control the information and the news, the Farmer that produce the income of the country, the church that criticizes the govenment cause of their actions and neglects, The Opposite Political parties, and a Vicepresident that voted No to an Important law), almost every single one of the controversial laws that have been discussed in the senate these last 3 years are all just to give the governing power more control over every little aspect of the country.
The international press has covered it but some have forgotten that 2 years ago the big fight was the farmers vs the government that caused a downfall in the agrultural exports.
last year the big fight was against the multimedium that is Grupo clarin (a multinational media buinsess that had 30% of the media here in argentina including TV radio and newspaper press),
and now this year it is the Church this law is a huge FUCK YOU to the church and their wanting to control the "morals" of the traditionally immoral country. We may me seen as being very religious but in reality we arent, our politics isnt as Religious driven as the USA, there is no Republican vs Democrats here its a big grey area.
Of course, Many of you will be happy about this law but what i see is that over the past few years the Ex- President and his Wife the actual/current president have been eliminating the competition, their opposers, and any kind of criticizing and external pressures so as to have the peoples vote NEXT year.. yes NEXT year.. The kirchner have been ruleing for the past 7 years..
Also, The biggest opposition Politicaly and a Posible President is Mauricio Macri who now is being indicted for illegal tapping of phones. It was most likely a set up.
Meanwhile, This govenment gives cheap entertainment in the form of football, wine and Chorizos (hot dogs is the most similar thing you can find) entertaining and paying walfare to the poor making them easy votes or payable voters.
In addition to all this, over the past years the level of poverty (statistic wise) has been drawn and disfigured into a nice level as the INDEC (the principal statistic index of the country) has been lying about the inflation and the % of poverty, making the general public un aware of how deep in shit we really are
So in conclution, i am happy the law was passed it is a landmark and its good for turisim and trade but the The View I want to present is that this LAW was pass just to fuck up the church as they have been accusing the government of several things, Statistic tampering, paying for votes, disaproving every move they make
the Church has made their own polls and statistics that reveal a very bad economical situation that is more, that was more real and adecuate to reality that the situation that the INDEC shows.
This brought serious problems to the Government
This law was well We WILL FUCK YOU IN THE ASS to the Church.
What I see is that the real dangers, and the real problems are not adressed and the govenment only acts in its self interest and their greed for more power. it is not crazy to say these Two (Nestor kirchner and his wife) could say in the presidency for atleast 8 more years alternateing one and the other making themselfs rich and leaving a poor country with a huge debt behind.
I only Hope there is a law that is passed that directs the govements efforts to try to solve one just one of the real problems we as a country we face..
the Megamineing that is Tearing and polluting towns in the north, the ever increasing gap between the rich and the poor, the Huge Education deficit, the High College dropout rate, the Huge External Debt we have, the Gas crisis that is not being mentioned,
the always increasing INFLATION and the Huge transportation problem there is in the capital city BUENOS AIRES..
the Future of my country seems grim and I dont know what will happen to us in the future..
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Please explain more? I don't really understand what you're getting at.
The law simply "It gives same-sex couples equal marriage rights, including the ability to adopt children." Why do you see this as a bad thing? I'm sorry if I'm reading what you said wrong, but I've read it 3 times now and still do not understand.
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On July 16 2010 09:08 PanN wrote:
The law simply "It gives same-sex couples equal marriage rights, including the ability to adopt children." Why do you see this as a bad thing?
qft
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Wait a minute, how is it a political move when it's one of the most controversial things a government can do in a religious country? A political move of the cliff, maybe... (like the other people I didn't really understand the entire post so)
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this is a part from the blog..
The View I want to present is that this LAW is just Made to fuck up the church as they have been accusing the government of Statistic tampering by making their own polls and statistics that reveal a very bad economical situation that is more, that was more real and adecuate to reality that the situation that the INDEC shows. This law was well We WILL FUCK YOU IN THE ASS...
the govenment is using this law as they have used other laws to make the press the people and the senate and the "congress" vote these issues instead of the real issues.
I NEVER said the law was bad..
its just to win over some votes and we are not a religious country though we may seem as one..
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On July 16 2010 09:16 Redmark wrote:
Wait a minute, how is it a political move when it's one of the most controversial things a government can do in a religious country? A political move of the cliff, maybe... (like the other people I didn't really understand the entire post so)
the votes in this country arent made cause of religious intentions, people here vote cause they really like the candidate or not and not by how religious they are as some people do in the USA its not as black and white it is in the USA or CANADA for that matter, I dont know that much about canadas voting patterns or the sociology behind it..
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Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive?
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A government making decisions to undermine it's opposition and appeal to minority groups for votes?
FUCKIN' POLITICS, HOW DO THEY WORK?!
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On July 16 2010 09:41 Subversion wrote:
Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive?
yes. before liberal americans start blowing the Argentina government for their new law, they should look deeper in to the situation and see the real agenda for what it is.
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On July 16 2010 09:57 Cedstick wrote:
A government making decisions to undermine it's opposition and appeal to minority groups for votes?
FUCKIN' POLITICS, HOW DO THEY WORK?!
its not just an opposition its just fucking everybody that is against the government the only people who are in favor of the government are the ones who are getting PAYED to vote for them
WHERE IS THE DEMOCRACY IN THAT?
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On July 16 2010 10:00 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 09:41 Subversion wrote:
Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive? yes. before liberal americans start blowing the Argentina government for their new law, they should look deeper in to the situation and see the real agenda for what it is.
Thank you for understanding... Its things like this that shows that the current government is just covering up the real problems and passing very high-profile low-impact on the real problems laws that get them such good international press, when they are a Money-Power Hungry whores..
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On July 16 2010 10:00 caelym wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 09:41 Subversion wrote:
Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive? yes. before liberal americans start blowing the Argentina government for their new law, they should look deeper in to the situation and see the real agenda for what it is.
Sure, maybe the government doesn't deserve praise if it was for an agenda. But at least something good has happened?
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On July 16 2010 10:45 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 10:00 caelym wrote:On July 16 2010 09:41 Subversion wrote:
Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive? yes. before liberal americans start blowing the Argentina government for their new law, they should look deeper in to the situation and see the real agenda for what it is. Sure, maybe the government doesn't deserve praise if it was for an agenda. But at least something good has happened?
What I believe caelym is saying is that the euphoria of this "good" thing happening (I'm not against gay rights, though not really for it either, but I placed the word good in quotes because I believe we should hesitate before bringing "good" and "evil" into political discussion -- when you do that, you turn politics into a religion, which is in some ways even more dangerous than religion in its better known form) is distracting people from realizing what's really going on. And what's really going on, if what the OP has said is true, is probably going to effect society in a much, much bigger way.
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On July 16 2010 10:45 Subversion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 10:00 caelym wrote:On July 16 2010 09:41 Subversion wrote:
Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive? yes. before liberal americans start blowing the Argentina government for their new law, they should look deeper in to the situation and see the real agenda for what it is. Sure, maybe the government doesn't deserve praise if it was for an agenda. But at least something good has happened?
No one is saying it is a bad thing in itself. The point is that it is useful to be cognizant of the larger context.
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Er sorry edit fail turned into double post.
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is awesome32274 Posts
You are forgetting this law was not passed by the "government" block but by people from every party.
Senators from the government party also voted "no" for this law. So your way of though shatters instantly.
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is awesome32274 Posts
http://spreadsheets.google.com/lv?key=t9Yq8fHMIU3NOGHdg_Woi0Q&f=true&gid=0
Here you can see a list of the votes. "FPV" is the current governing block. You can see lines by FPV in red (meaning the voted "no") as well as lines by the opposition in green, meaning they voted "yes".
If anything the law was passed because the church + company's only argument to not pass the law was "children have the right to have a mother and a father" or citing old laws that mention the figure of a father and mother when referring to families.
Hell, even look at the spreadsheet and find "Gerardo Morales" (near the bottom). He voted yes to the law and he's the president to the main opposing block, the UCR.
If this really was Gov vs Opp, do you think the main figure for the opposing party would vote yes?
Stop buying what the media groups or the church sell to you.
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it doesnt shatter instantly cause you know part of it is right the legalization of same sex marriage is not Top PRIORITY and lately in the news the passing of the law, that warehouse that has been burning and the snow are the only things on it.. There are much bigger things that are not being talked about..
the Important things that need to be adressed is what this blog was about.. the law was passed and it helped the current govenment dispite it was been voted by all of the congress who has an opposing mayority.
I voted for a more democratic congress so i know how this law was passed..
the media will still be talking about how it helps the govenment. Some of my dumb theology teachers preached about how bad this law was and my argument stayed the same that its just to take away the heat the govenment can get over other issues...
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is awesome32274 Posts
How is equaling the rights of citizens not a priority? You are saying that because this doesn't affect you in any way at all.
I don't know what the point is. If anyone is to blame for reporting on snow and not important things is the media, not the government. Your argument makes no sense at all.
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On July 16 2010 10:02 HeadhunteR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 10:00 caelym wrote:On July 16 2010 09:41 Subversion wrote:
Does the reason really matter, when the result is positive? yes. before liberal americans start blowing the Argentina government for their new law, they should look deeper in to the situation and see the real agenda for what it is. Thank you for understanding... Its things like this that shows that the current government is just covering up the real problems and passing very high-profile low-impact on the real problems laws that get them such good international press, when they are a Money-Power Hungry whores..
he doesn't understand actually, the move was political, but the way he worded his response means his response comes from a place of hate and homophobia rather than political insight.
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You dont know what is a priority...safety and better education is a more important priority.. and the equaling of the rights does affect me it gives me more places to work and more people to help.
and you are talking about equaling of rights? what about the disabled? the old? and the orfans?
yeah my family has them and the govenment has done little to nothing to help any of them.
My aunt had to fight for months to get her now adopted childen that were saved from an abusive father who is now in prison thankfully , I only know half of the story and I still dont know how those little children could grow up to that. The judge was ruleing in favor of the mother that was a recovering alcoholic that had little to no income.. and my aunt has a master in Psicology she earns well and she works for the govenment.
My Disabled aunt always had to pay for her treatments cause there is no universal healthcare (thats a huge priority right there) and my dad and my mother had to help her out on everything cause there was no govenmental help on many of those stuff
What has the govenment done to make those a priority, they obligated macri to make his own police, they are making his job a living hell so he cant do things right, I dont like macri but he is bening pushed around. The law as a stated earlier is a very good law but there are many things that should and could have been addressed as something more important.
My right to be safe and to have a place where my family and friends can live safely is a priority, and that comes with education and with a better police force. I hate the police they do not make me feel safe.
There are a lot of things that have to be changed in this country and the equality of rights is just a step..
what about the right of musicians then? isnt that something the government has to take care of?
stop thinking this was an awesome move cause some 1st world countries havent done it, there are things we still have to think about..
Dont get me wrong I dont live bad im just thinking that this a shallow law it helps but there is much to be done..
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is awesome32274 Posts
On July 16 2010 14:05 HeadhunteR wrote:
You dont know what is a priority...safety and better education is a more important priority.. and the equaling of the rights does affect me it gives me more places to work and more people to help.
and if you are talking about equaling of rights? what about the disabled? the old? and the orfans?
yeah my family has them and the govenment has done little to none to help many of them.
The old? The government changed the retirement system so people are getting more money now that they were getting 1 year ago.
Do you know how much money the old private retirement system stole from the eldery? Do you know about the Clarin - AFJP case where the private retirement companies bought Clarin stock actions for 30$ and after they did they plumbered to 6$?
The orphans? Hopefully now that gay people can adopt more people can be adopted instead of living under those circumstances.
On July 16 2010 14:05 HeadhunteR wrote:
My aunt had to fight for months to get her now adopted childen that were saved from an abusive father who is now in prison thankfully , I only know half of the story and I still dont know how those little children could grow up to that. The judge was ruleing in favor of the mother that was a recovering alchoolic that had little to no income..
My Disabled aunt always had to pay for her treatments and my dad and my mother had to help her out on everything cause there was no govenmental regulation.
I won't comment on this since I can't comment on your particular case since I don't know you, or your aunt. Maybe if you cite some sources about how there is no regulation on the matter? (you said "was" which is really confusing, is there a regulation now?)
On July 16 2010 14:05 HeadhunteR wrote:
What has the govenment done to make those a priority, they obligated macri to make his own police, they are making his job a living hell so he cant do things right, I dont like macri but he is bening pushed around. The law as a stated earlier is a very good law but there are many things that should and could have been addressed as something more important.
The government never ogligated Macri to make their own police. Macri starting a new city police was his own idea.
Oh a Macri fan I see. Now I understand. You are basically defending the people who stole everything from our public institutions in the 90's. You should read a little more on Macri, his companies and his father. Maybe it will shed some light into what his actual intentions are.
On July 16 2010 14:05 HeadhunteR wrote:
My right to be safe and to have a place where my family and friends can live safely is a priority, and that comes with education and with a better police force. I hate the police they do not make me feel safe.
There are a lot of things that have to be changed in this country and the equality of rights is just a step.
How about the universal child quota the government applied? 25% more children are going to public schools in ONE year. That number seem little to you? This is in the whole country not just "your city". Kids that had to work in awful conditions will hopefully now get an education and get out of that situation.
About being safe. Do you know that when all the media started to report all those violent crimes the total number of violent crimes went down? Stop buying what they sell you. I feel like I'm listening to some conservative TV channel (FOX news I guess for those in the US) instead of talking to someone. How about you cite some facts instead of just spitting problems left and right.
On July 16 2010 14:05 HeadhunteR wrote:
what about the right of musicians then? isn't that something the government has to take care of?
stop thinking this was an awesome move cause some 1st world countries havent done it, there are things we still have to think about..
The right of musicians? What? I'm speechless lol.
If it's not much to ask for, could you dedicate some time to check your posts, they are pretty hard to read.
Oh, by the way you still haven't answered how this was a political move by the government. You still have not replied what we were actually talking about.
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is awesome32274 Posts
On July 16 2010 08:52 HeadhunteR wrote:
The international press has covered it but some have forgotten that 2 years ago the big fight was the farmers vs the government that caused a downfall in the agrultural exports.
Oh yeah?
http://en.mercopress.com/2010/02/12/abundant-rainfall-anticipates-a-record-soy-bean-crop-for-argentina
Stop predicting Armageddon on things you read nothing on HeadhundeR, please.
If you read any decent source, exports went downfall on 2009 for Argentina cause of the scarce rains we had.
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thanks for the insight, i was working with little info, i haven't talked about this stuff in a while. you made me realize im being to hot headed against the government, its that i don't like it how things are going right now. I see people around me that are suffering real problems the stuff going in the north, the lack of good support for schools and also people i know that were robbed recently it doesn't help.
And I said I dont like macri i think he is scum he hides behind a mask he acts friendly but he is just another menemista..
and about your question i have answered it the government is acting against the church, and the passing of the law helps the international public image of the Kirchnners.
oh and finally You cant tell me they are not robbing us, cause every president has. (yes even those presidents the 5 presidents in 1 week)
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is awesome32274 Posts
On July 16 2010 08:52 HeadhunteR wrote:
Huge transportation problem there is in the capital city BUENOS AIRES..
the Future of my country seems grim and I dont know what will happen to us in the future..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704518904575364523811330964.html
Argentina said it secured an agreement with China for the Asian giant to invest $10 billion in the South American country's railways, Beijing's latest move to extend its influence in Latin America through multibillion-dollar energy and infrastructure deals.
China to invest in 10 separate rail projects in Argentina over the next two to five years, including construction of rail lines and equipment. Among these is a $2.5 billion rail-renovation project in the capital, Buenos Aires, Mr. Schiavi said.
Oh yeah, you are right, they are nothing to solve this.
I should also mention that the government is about to finish 15Km of subway in the following months. Macri promised 15Km / year and he's not even done with 5Km (he has been the city mayor since Dec 10 2007).
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On July 16 2010 14:46 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2010 08:52 HeadhunteR wrote:
Huge transportation problem there is in the capital city BUENOS AIRES..
the Future of my country seems grim and I dont know what will happen to us in the future..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704518904575364523811330964.htmlShow nested quote +Argentina said it secured an agreement with China for the Asian giant to invest $10 billion in the South American country's railways, Beijing's latest move to extend its influence in Latin America through multibillion-dollar energy and infrastructure deals.
China to invest in 10 separate rail projects in Argentina over the next two to five years, including construction of rail lines and equipment. Among these is a $2.5 billion rail-renovation project in the capital, Buenos Aires, Mr. Schiavi said.
Oh yeah, you are right, they are nothing to solve this. I should also mention that the government is about to finish 15Km of subway in the following months. Macri promised 15Km / year and he's not even done with 5Km (he has been the city mayor since Dec 10 2007).
Holy crap that is very good news i cant believe it 2 billion? hell yeah i said public transportation is an issue.. see this is what im talking about this kind of stuff has to be adressed this is great news!!
I hope they do use those 2.5 billons, if not in 3-4 years ill be asking what the hell happened...
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is awesome32274 Posts
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I dont know if it is a political or not in this case, but that stuff is sometimes discouraging. Legitimate issues that are being used in political plays rather than an honest effort to do the right thing. Racism, sexism, PC etc is exploited like that a lot in North America for example.
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EPT
