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CA10824 Posts
I figure that there are enough pre-med types on TL that it would be worth blogging about my MCAT experience.
I just graduated from USC (undergrad) about 1.5 months ago with a double major, one of them being Biology. I after graduation I took a 1 week break at my parents' place (ATL) before starting my full-time job here in FL.
Why am I taking the MCAT? Well, I'm not exactly your typical pre-med. My grades were pretty crappy in college, around a 3.1 GPA. I have a bunch of reasons why, but in the end they don't matter. I basically screwed up. Definitely not competitive for MD (Allopathic) which has an average of around 3.7 nor DO (Osteopathic) which is around 3.5. However it IS competitive for DPM (Doctor of Podiatric Medicine). At the moment my thought is to apply for podiatry school. I can see myself working as a podiatrist in the future, and I find foot/ankle reconstructive surgery fascinating. However, depending on my MCAT score I might consider applying to DO school. The MCAT averages for the different schools are: MD 31, DO 27, DPM 22. As you can see, DPM is by far the easiest to get into. That doesn't mean the curriculum is that much easier than MD/DO though. DPM is easy to get in, tough to get out. But that saying probably originates from the fact that there are fewer applicants, so less-qualified students barely make the cut and aren't able to keep up with the intense workload of professional school.
About 2 weeks ago, I registered for the September 11th MCAT (can you believe it costs $230 to take a computerized test? Insane). That night, I started studying for the MCAT in earnest. Because I have no money, I'm using the ExamKrackers study material (books checked out from the library plus Audio Osmosis downloaded for free) in combination with my textbooks from school. My friend also let me access her Princeton Review account so I can take a few practice exams for free over the next few weeks. For those who don't know, these test prep companies (Kaplan, Princeton Review, etc) charge ridiculous prices for their stuff. I think she told me her courses + online test material cost her around $1800!
So far I've been studying for around 3ish hours a day tackling one subject per day. Here's the ExamKrackers Home Study Method that I'm following. I would like to study more, but I'm working full time during the day so I only have time to study at night.
I've taken 2 practice tests for far: the AAMC 3 and 4. The AAMC 3 is supposedly by far the easiest exam so I took it as a pre-test 2 weeks ago before I began my study routine. I got a 8b8p10v totaling a composite of 26.
Some of you may be wondering what that means. Well, the MCAT the covers a variety of basic sciences plus writing and verbal reasoning. There are 3 sections (b/p/v) out of 15 points each for a maximum score of 45. There is also the writing component, which is scored on an alphabetic scale from J (worst) to T (best). "8b" means I got a score of 8 out of 15 in the biological sciences section, which includes general biology and organic chemistry. Likewise, 8p means I scored a 8/15 on the physical sciences sections (general chemistry and physics). 10v means I scored a 10/15 on the verbal reasoning section, which is basically a reading comprehension test. The writing sample portion isn't graded for free (you have to pay for it) so I haven't really prepared for that. But I'm not too concerned because unless you completely fail that part, schools don't care too much about your score. If you score an O or better most schools won't bat an eye unless you're aiming for a super elite school, where you'll want a Q or higher. This is why you see people write their scores as 29M, 33Q, etc.
I just completed another test about an hour ago and I scored a 10b7p10v, which is a 27. Improvement! (lol). Honestly though, I'm pretty happy with my score at this point in time. My weakest area is by far physics (I especially hate the topics of fluids, electricity, and magnetism), and that's what is dragging my score down. I couldn't even answer some of the physics problems because I haven't committed all the formulas to memory yet. But that's OK since I haven't covered that portion of the material in the study guides. I'm glad that my verbal is staying in the double-digit range and most importantly my biological sciences score went up by 2 points to 10! This is pretty amazing considering that I haven't even opened up the organic chemistry study guide yet.
According to the score report these are my percentiles
Biology: 75%ile
Organic Chemistry: 70%ile
General Chemistry: 60%ile
Physics: 25%ile LOLOLOLOL 
Verbal Reasoning: 75%ile
After reviewing my errors, I realized that I made a few stupid mistakes here and there which could have easily been avoided. I also need to stop over-thinking problems because I changed my answers to 3 or 4 problems from the correct choice to an incorrect one (doh).
I know that people tend to score on average around 2-3 points lower on the real exam than their practice exam due to nerves and stuff so I have to work hard to improve my score until I'm hitting consistent 32 or 33 on the practice exams.
Anyway it's already 3am here on the US east coast so it's time to go to bed. I have another full day of work and studying ahead of me. I cannot wait until 6pm, September 11th when I walk out of that MCAT test room. Until them, I'll keep you guys periodically updated on my progress!
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Oh man, the stuff you need to know for pre-med is mind-boggling =,= I'm an incoming freshman for college and have yet to decide what I am going to major in. Like any typical traditional Asian family, I pondered about going into medicine. But the competition in this field is ridiculous. I'm wondering if I should do finance but still lost :p Oh, and I'm going to a CC because I effed up my HS GPA T_T
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Hah def GL, I've only just completed my freshman year but i've talked to plenty upper classmen who tell me premed is touch as hell so i have somewhat of an idea of wut ur going through.
All this cramming about standardized tests remind me alot of my junior yr in high school where almost everyone i knew was worried bout the SAT...oh well i guess thats just how it is ;/
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26 on first exam is really good!
I got 27 on my diag and did more than 10 points higher on the actual test. If you keep working hard, you will be looking at a really good score, especially if your verbal is already 10 with little practice.
However, don't put much too faith into the aamc tests before 7. Theyre very different than the current tests (the current are significantly harder). 7-10 AAMC are good practice tests (but still easier than the current). Since you have your friend's TPR account, make sure you take a lot of TPR tests, which are more difficult than the AAMC ones and thus are good practice.
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Ah, this is so cool.
I will be just starting my 1st year in college this fall and my goal is to get into a good medical school.
Even though it's a few years off, just reading about this makes me feel... idk. that I'm not alone?
I hope that you will do well in your endeavors and good luck!
(And wow, pretty good score for your first try....? :O)
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Awesome! I'm doing a pre-med track as well - just finished my first year after some time off and I'll end up with an undergraduate degree in Biology with a minor in Chemistry. The biggest issue I'm having right now is trying to find all sorts of things that'll look good on a med school transcript. Half the crap that schools/people recommend seem like a full time investment in themselves - I have no clue how I'm going to get them done in 4 years.
Good luck to you, man. Keep at it and I'm sure you'll get into something.
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CA10824 Posts
On July 05 2010 16:08 ShoeFactory wrote:
26 on first exam is really good!
I got 27 on my diag and did more than 10 points higher on the actual test. If you keep working hard, you will be looking at a really good score, especially if your verbal is already 10 with little practice.
However, don't put much too faith into the aamc tests before 7. Theyre very different than the current tests (the current are significantly harder). 7-10 AAMC are good practice tests (but still easier than the current). Since you have your friend's TPR account, make sure you take a lot of TPR tests, which are more difficult than the AAMC ones and thus are good practice.
thanks for the advice about the AAMCs. i've heard the same info from other places but it's always good to hear it reinforced from different sources. i'm going to be taking another test at the end of this week. do you think i should try for one of the AAMC 7-10 or should i just take AAMC 5 since i haven't covered that much material yet? i'm on week 3 of 10 on the study schedule.
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Does your GPA translate into a distinction average? Australian grad med schools don't consider GPA as long as it is above a distinction average (to the best of my knowledge), so you might want to consider applying here. Our medicine uni's are generally pretty good, and it isn't hard to get an MBBS converted into an MD if you want to work in the states.
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On July 05 2010 16:19 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 16:08 ShoeFactory wrote:
26 on first exam is really good!
I got 27 on my diag and did more than 10 points higher on the actual test. If you keep working hard, you will be looking at a really good score, especially if your verbal is already 10 with little practice.
However, don't put much too faith into the aamc tests before 7. Theyre very different than the current tests (the current are significantly harder). 7-10 AAMC are good practice tests (but still easier than the current). Since you have your friend's TPR account, make sure you take a lot of TPR tests, which are more difficult than the AAMC ones and thus are good practice. thanks for the advice about the AAMCs. i've heard the same info from other places but it's always good to hear it reinforced from different sources. i'm going to be taking another test at the end of this week. do you think i should try for one of the AAMC 7-10 or should i just take AAMC 5 since i haven't covered that much material yet? i'm on week 3 of 10 on the study schedule.
Take TPR tests every 2 weeks at least. During the last month, take 2 per week. During the last 2 weeks, take a test every 2-3 days.
Don't waste your AAMCs right now. Take TPRs only. Start using your AAMCs in the last week. I don't think its even worth taking AAMC 5-6 unless you have a LOT of time left over.
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I'm taking mine in September also. For right now I'm going through the old AAMC tests. I'll probably hit up the Examcrackers in a bit. Good luck in your endeavors!
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One thing I've noticed personally about academic undertakings is that you tend to learn a lot about yourself, not just the subject material. Maybe that's me. Gl, hf.
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3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD
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GL sir. What you pretty much gotta do is maintain the other stuff while you bring up your poor subjects (physics in your case). Then play to your strengths and master a couple of the ones you know you can do good at.
Writing is pretty damn easy as long as you follow typical essay format.
I took it and did fairly well (above average) but ended up deciding to go to physical therapy school. Love this stuff better anyway. 
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CA10824 Posts
On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD
perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college.
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On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college.
It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%.
Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper.
Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply.
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Goodluck on studying for you're MCATs! I'll be taking mine next year and hope that I can get in to med school >.<, I never knew that the podiatrics exam and gpa was so low compared to the MD program. Perhaps make sure that you get some good job shadowing / volunteer opportunities?? Something like that is what I always hear as in how to bolster you're chances of getting in..
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On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply.
Do you really want to be in school until you're 34 though... and have debt out the wazoo?
Typically you'll be graduating college at 22... depending on MD/PhD program you'll be doing 4 years for PhD adn 4 years for med school = 30. Then you have your residency as an MD which, depending on your field is anywhere from 2-8+ years. Neurosurgery is like 10+ not really including fellowships, orthopedic surgery is at least 6 IIRC plus fellowships.... On average at residency you're probably looking at least at 3-4 years.
Then as a MD/PhD you're most likely going to be doing research.... and not making any money at all so you're pretty much a highly educated poor person. GL starting a family or doing anything you want to then.
edit: Not to dissuade you from actually wanting to do this if you want to do it.... but really you gotta consider what you want to do with your life in about 8-10 years... aka still in school or out in the real world and such.
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On July 05 2010 17:33 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply. Do you really want to be in school until you're 34 though... and have debt out the wazoo? Typically you'll be graduating college at 22... depending on MD/PhD program you'll be doing 4 years for PhD adn 4 years for med school = 30. Then you have your residency as an MD which, depending on your field is anywhere from 2-8+ years. Neurosurgery is like 10+ not really including fellowships, orthopedic surgery is at least 6 IIRC plus fellowships.... On average at residency you're probably looking at least at 3-4 years. Then as a MD/PhD you're most likely going to be doing research.... and not making any money at all so you're pretty much a highly educated poor person. GL starting a family or doing anything you want to then. edit: Not to dissuade you from actually wanting to do this if you want to do it.... but really you gotta consider what you want to do with your life in about 8-10 years... aka still in school or out in the real world and such.
Yea I am well-aware of that. I am not that interested in marriage or starting a family, though. If my parents push me too hard on this issue I will just "buy" a wife from a disadvantaged third world country (just need to check her for aids and it's all good)
:D:D
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Good luck. I thought about it in the past too, but I decided to just go for a Masters instead (Biomedical Engineering... more than 50% of my class was pre-med).
What are your plans if you don't get into med school? (i hope you get in, but just wondering what you're thinking about for other options)
Your verbal score from practice tests seems to be really good. I have some friends who do really well on every section besides the Verbal score.
Anyways, best of luck.
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not only that, but MD/PhD programs, atleast in the US are super competetive. But I do believe that the MD/PhD program takes around 6 years, don't quote me on this though >.< But best of luck to you to try to get in, to me, unless you love to do research, there is no benefit to getting a phd.
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mrmin123
Korea (South)2971 Posts
So glad I'm done with MCATs woooooooooooooooooo glglglg
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United States10774 Posts
good luck man you got this. fighting!
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On July 05 2010 17:42 sechkie wrote:
not only that, but MD/PhD programs, atleast in the US are super competetive. But I do believe that the MD/PhD program takes around 6 years, don't quote me on this though >.< But best of luck to you to try to get in, to me, unless you love to do research, there is no benefit to getting a phd.
Depends on the program... some are hybridized to 7 years (6 at absolute minimum though although I've never heard of one) but most are at least 8 year programs + MD residency.
Generally, they will have you do the first 2 years of med school and take your boards... then do PhD program for 4 years and get your doctorate.... then ship you back to med school for your rotations and then residency.
Yeah, if you don't love research then don't do this pretty much. Or want to have a life outside of work until after your mid-late 30s.
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So I understand my advice is unsolicited, but as a first year med student at an MD school, I will give it. In the present application environment, you absolutely cannot be competetive without a Kaplan or Princeton review course (or something similar). I earned a 33 on my first MCAT, and a 38 on my second after taking a course. Find the money. It's your future, they are worth it.
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On July 05 2010 17:42 sechkie wrote:
not only that, but MD/PhD programs, atleast in the US are super competetive. But I do believe that the MD/PhD program takes around 6 years, don't quote me on this though >.< But best of luck to you to try to get in, to me, unless you love to do research, there is no benefit to getting a phd.
Most likely. Well, just an MD is also fine assuming I can get in one. Whichever is easier, I guess.
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In general assuming at least a decent score on your mcat it's 3.7 for basically sure in, 3.4 to be competitive and 3.0 with a high mcat score. Schools be hurting for students right now btw..best time to get in.
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On July 05 2010 17:38 illu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:33 eshlow wrote:On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply. Do you really want to be in school until you're 34 though... and have debt out the wazoo? Typically you'll be graduating college at 22... depending on MD/PhD program you'll be doing 4 years for PhD adn 4 years for med school = 30. Then you have your residency as an MD which, depending on your field is anywhere from 2-8+ years. Neurosurgery is like 10+ not really including fellowships, orthopedic surgery is at least 6 IIRC plus fellowships.... On average at residency you're probably looking at least at 3-4 years. Then as a MD/PhD you're most likely going to be doing research.... and not making any money at all so you're pretty much a highly educated poor person. GL starting a family or doing anything you want to then. edit: Not to dissuade you from actually wanting to do this if you want to do it.... but really you gotta consider what you want to do with your life in about 8-10 years... aka still in school or out in the real world and such. Yea I am well-aware of that. I am not that interested in marriage or starting a family, though. If my parents push me too hard on this issue I will just "buy" a wife from a disadvantaged third world country (just need to check her for aids and it's all good) :D:D
this is sad but true. i'm starting med school in august, and the way things are looking, I might end up just buying a wife.
but really, if you keep up on all the evolutionary psychology, might be better off not marrying at all, and just being a serial long term relationship dater.
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On July 05 2010 17:42 sechkie wrote:
not only that, but MD/PhD programs, atleast in the US are super competetive. But I do believe that the MD/PhD program takes around 6 years, don't quote me on this though >.< But best of luck to you to try to get in, to me, unless you love to do research, there is no benefit to getting a phd.
they are 7 years from what I understand.
On July 05 2010 18:51 Jayme wrote:
In general assuming at least a decent score on your mcat it's 3.7 for basically sure in, 3.4 to be competitive and 3.0 with a high mcat score. Schools be hurting for students right now btw..best time to get in.
lol sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about.
now is more competitive than ever to get into med school. the recession is making it hella hard to get a job, so lots of people who are otherwise working are applying for grad school instead. and people who are otherwise applying for grad school are applying for med school.
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On July 05 2010 17:46 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:42 sechkie wrote:
not only that, but MD/PhD programs, atleast in the US are super competetive. But I do believe that the MD/PhD program takes around 6 years, don't quote me on this though >.< But best of luck to you to try to get in, to me, unless you love to do research, there is no benefit to getting a phd. Depends on the program... some are hybridized to 7 years (6 at absolute minimum though although I've never heard of one) but most are at least 8 year programs + MD residency. Generally, they will have you do the first 2 years of med school and take your boards... then do PhD program for 4 years and get your doctorate.... then ship you back to med school for your rotations and then residency. Yeah, if you don't love research then don't do this pretty much. Or want to have a life outside of work until after your mid-late 30s.
what the fuck. 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 4 years phd, then another 3-7 years residency, with perhaps 1-2 years more fellowship? let's add that up.
18 + 4+4+4+3 (or 7)+1 (or 2) = 34 if u are fast about it, and 39 if you take the standard route.
remember that this whole process is 80+ hours per week, competing nonstop with the best of the best at every turn.
where the hell are you supposed to get married?
no wonder all the top doctors are egomaniacs. it takes a specific type of personality to want to commit to this sort of thing, not to mention going through with it.
parents, don't force your children to do medicine.
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lol, you're looking at an egomaniac right here. I've got the whole shabang going on right now, except my parents wouldn't give me my education fund unless I took nursing first, which in all honesty is probably making my future harder. I feel like the med schools will think of nursing as an easier course and respect it less. But I can probably squeeze some easier marks out of it, and I'm also volunteering every summer at the hospital, and I'm learning stuff by myself (right now, clinical hypnosis, as I want to be a psychiatrist). And being a lifeguard can't hurt either (some some first aid rescues up in there). the MCAT is going to be a problem though, since nursing has absolutely no science in it, so I'm gonna have to teach myself that stuff.
On top of having good marks, it's also really important to be well rounded (is what I hear, so I'm not as worried as I could be). OP, good luck with your stuff, make sure you update us, cause this is important info.
EDIT: I think it's important to note that you need the right mindset in order to become a doctor. In the words of mighty yoda, there is no try, only do or do not (couldn't pass on a chance to quote yoda  ).
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26 isn't a bad place to start (My first test was an 8B8P10V)!
I've been doing a lot better now that I've taken the time to learn all the formulas and physiology they expect you to know. Once you master the subject material though, it almost becomes something of an IQ test.
I'm taking it on the 16th and only started studying last week, though, so I'd better get back to it
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To the OP: I think you are in excellent shape. 26 is an great score for your first diag. Here's a question though: why don't you just borrow the Princeton books from your friend also? In my experience, almost all the value of the Princeton course is in the books (and also the simulated exams). Maybe Exam Krackers is sufficient, but I really don't know anyone who used them as anything other than a supplement. Textbooks, I can almost guarantee you, are woefully inefficient when studying for standardized tests. What I do know is that of my friends who used TPR, they improved an average of ~10 pts from their first diag.
I don't want to count your chickens before they hatch, obviously. But given your first diag, I think you have a very decent shot at a DO school, and a fighter's punch at an MD school.
On July 05 2010 17:49 np.Resuscitate wrote:
So I understand my advice is unsolicited, but as a first year med student at an MD school, I will give it. In the present application environment, you absolutely cannot be competetive without a Kaplan or Princeton review course (or something similar). I earned a 33 on my first MCAT, and a 38 on my second after taking a course. Find the money. It's your future, they are worth it.
That's why I kind of agree with this, if you somehow can't get the books from a friend or some other method. $1800 is a drop in the bucket compared to how much you're gonna owe if you actually get in.
On July 05 2010 19:02 December12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:42 sechkie wrote:
not only that, but MD/PhD programs, atleast in the US are super competetive. But I do believe that the MD/PhD program takes around 6 years, don't quote me on this though >.< But best of luck to you to try to get in, to me, unless you love to do research, there is no benefit to getting a phd. they are 7 years from what I understand.
Most MD/PhD's at my school take 7-8 years.
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I don't know about MCAT but I did take GMAT. I took a kaplan course. Costed me 1500. I didn't think it was that worth it. For GMAT, we have manhattan prep, the books were realyl really good. Try to check them out. You also get free test stuff.
The only thing godo about kaplan is that they have a practice test where you get to take it AT the test centre. Only Kaplan has this deal with GMAC. It really helped get a feel what its like the first time around.
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There is always caribbean medical schools. Look up St. George and Ross.
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I don't know about the states, but here at UBC Canada, the marks alone won't get you into med school ... I've known people with very high gpa (at least 3.8, some 4.0) with very high MCAT scores, (35+), a bunch of awards, volunteer at at least 2 places, lots of extracurricular stuff, yet the competition is so high that they can't get in after the interview..
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On July 05 2010 20:34 eLiE wrote:lol, you're looking at an egomaniac right here. I've got the whole shabang going on right now, except my parents wouldn't give me my education fund unless I took nursing first, which in all honesty is probably making my future harder. I feel like the med schools will think of nursing as an easier course and respect it less. But I can probably squeeze some easier marks out of it, and I'm also volunteering every summer at the hospital, and I'm learning stuff by myself (right now, clinical hypnosis, as I want to be a psychiatrist). And being a lifeguard can't hurt either (some some first aid rescues up in there). the MCAT is going to be a problem though, since nursing has absolutely no science in it, so I'm gonna have to teach myself that stuff. On top of having good marks, it's also really important to be well rounded (is what I hear, so I'm not as worried as I could be). OP, good luck with your stuff, make sure you update us, cause this is important info. EDIT: I think it's important to note that you need the right mindset in order to become a doctor. In the words of mighty yoda, there is no try, only do or do not (couldn't pass on a chance to quote yoda ).
why would you do nursing before med school. the 2 are completely different, and nursing wont prepare you for medicine, nor will nursing classes help you with anything. your parents are fucking retarded.
don't worry about fucking funding. if you get in to a med school somewhere, federal loan will cover 100% of your shit. There is also a new federal policy now that says after your 4 years of med school, you are only allowed to use 10% of your salary to pay back your loans per year. and if your loans aren't totally paid off after 10 years, then the rest of it is forgiven.
cool . i want to do psychiatry too. 100% outpatient videoconferencing for the win! world traveler bitchesssss!!!!
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On July 06 2010 00:08 stalife wrote:
I don't know about the states, but here at UBC Canada, the marks alone won't get you into med school ... I've known people with very high gpa (at least 3.8, some 4.0) with very high MCAT scores, (35+), a bunch of awards, volunteer at at least 2 places, lots of extracurricular stuff, yet the competition is so high that they can't get in after the interview..
haha sucks for you guys, cause doctors in canada dont make that much either.
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Yeah, don't take nursing courses at all if you want to do medicine. Big no-no there.
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Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing.
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On July 05 2010 20:34 eLiE wrote:lol, you're looking at an egomaniac right here. I've got the whole shabang going on right now, except my parents wouldn't give me my education fund unless I took nursing first, which in all honesty is probably making my future harder. I feel like the med schools will think of nursing as an easier course and respect it less. But I can probably squeeze some easier marks out of it, and I'm also volunteering every summer at the hospital, and I'm learning stuff by myself (right now, clinical hypnosis, as I want to be a psychiatrist). And being a lifeguard can't hurt either (some some first aid rescues up in there). the MCAT is going to be a problem though, since nursing has absolutely no science in it, so I'm gonna have to teach myself that stuff. On top of having good marks, it's also really important to be well rounded (is what I hear, so I'm not as worried as I could be). OP, good luck with your stuff, make sure you update us, cause this is important info. EDIT: I think it's important to note that you need the right mindset in order to become a doctor. In the words of mighty yoda, there is no try, only do or do not (couldn't pass on a chance to quote yoda ).
Also to reply to this: If you're applying to medical school, you've had all the courses you need for the MCAT. Having a Biochemistry degree makes half of the biological sciences section and half of the physical sciences section a joke, but it's not like you didn't get that information in GChem/Biology anyway. You're going to be studying for the MCAT anyway, and having more than the pre-reqs can often make you over-think problems. It's especially true of the PS section if you've had PChem.
Honestly if I was younger, I would have done Nursing or EMS as a route into medicine. The main reason I chose Biochem was because it was the only degree I could do along with all the pre-reqs in three years.
ADCOMs won't look down on nursing at all; they understand that nursing is a lot more rigorous than gchem/ochem/bio. It'll also give you an advantage because they won't have any doubts that you know exactly what you're getting into. When it comes to Mr. Caucasian 22 y/o biology major, he has to have a bunch of extra ECs that prove he really wants this.
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On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing.
So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined.
In response to some of your points...
Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills.
"Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time.
The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38.
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On July 06 2010 01:25 radar14 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing. So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined. In response to some of your points... Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills. "Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time. The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38.
Yeah, I agree. It's not like a good student can't do their pre-reqs DURING the 4 year nursing degree, if that's their plan all along. Also I repeating some positive reasons to do nursing or RT or something like that on the way to medical school in response to the guys on the last page saying nursing was a complete waste and 100% useless.
Also the positive reasons I gave were the reasons a few PCP physician friends of mine gave me to try to talk me out of doing a science major. As I said, I ultimately decided not to on account of the timeline alone.
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Ok, no reason to get sarcastic and snarky. That's why I asked with my first sentence what you were saying. You said yourself that it takes longer. Why would it take longer if you can finish all that in 4 years?
And I guess you have no comment on all my other points.
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It's a side effect of me not reading my post again in the context of yours before posting it.
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Good Luck!
I'm taking the MCAT on August 12th >.<
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IMO the best MCAT preparation would be to follow this guide at the Student Doctor Network:
Did anyone think the verbal section in AAMC3 was too easy? I got a 12 there after averaging an 8 in the beginning of the 101 passages book...
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On July 06 2010 01:49 iamke55 wrote:IMO the best MCAT preparation would be to follow this guide at the Student Doctor Network: Did anyone think the verbal section in AAMC3 was too easy? I got a 12 there after averaging an 8 in the beginning of the 101 passages book...
AAMC3 is widely considered much easier than either any of the other practice tests or the real MCAT. Supposedly 8/9/10 are newer/more difficult and better indicators of the real thing.
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On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD
Maybe your GPA isn't out of 4.0 because 3.98 as the median is a little absurd.
I'm taking the MCAT next summer >.<. Gl man, and remember, if you score high enough on the MCAT you can still get into an allopathic program. Have you considered attending the Caribbeans for medical school?
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/07/caribbean-medical-schools-a-good-option/
http://www.studentdoctor.net/2009/09/why-i-chose-podiatry-school/
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UT is amazingly competitive. I have some Canadian classmates that are at the top of the class and didn't get sniff at UT (or any other Canadian schools for that matter). A median GPA of 3.98 wouldn't surprise me at all.
Dear god, some of those articles on SDN are so bad.
Also, I think DO is better than Caribbean MD for the purpose of getting a residency.
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On July 06 2010 02:15 radar14 wrote:UT is amazingly competitive. I have some Canadian classmates that are at the top of the class and didn't get sniff at UT (or any other Canadian schools for that matter). A median GPA of 3.98 wouldn't surprise me at all. Dear god, some of those articles on SDN are so bad. Also, I think DO is better than Caribbean MD for the purpose of getting a residency.
100% agree. I live near a DO school that sends about 50% of its students to allopathic residencies. Although most of them do primary care, that largely reflects the type of students that choose DO for whatever reason. If you have good board scores, you can usually get into the type of residency you want regardless of which pair of letters you sport.
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Don't take aamc 8 that is the most realistic one imo. Wait to take that one last. Also the TPR are harder then necessary but will be good training Good Luck
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
if you really want to go to an allopathic school, consider postbaccalaureate classes. a lot of people who have low gpas go for this route and take an extra year or two of classes to bring their gpas up and become more competitive. a master's degree wouldn't hurt your medical aspirations, although a 3.1 gpa suggests that you might have trouble keeping up in med school classes even if you are able to get in.
in any case, good luck and i hope you do well.
doing nursing if you want a medical degree is a waste of time and you might as well just go for being a physician's assistant since it's only 2 or so more years of schooling and they make around 100k which is not bad at all.
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in response to people about my nursing program, it's been an ongoing argument between me and my parents, things we're said, I kicked down a door, etc... but it's free room and board so I'm stuck here for now. The only positives I can really see is that it will help in my med school interview, because I can say I truly learned about holistic patient care. TBH, I'm so sick of caring, there's all these theoretical models for caring, and it's not that hard, just don't be an asshole to your patients. A lot of the program feels like filler to me, common sense thrown into a theory so it looks professional. The program is definitely easier and more hands on than a life science program, but it's still a ton of work like any uni program. I don't recommend any serious med student take it. The reason I'm in it is insurance for when I don't make it into med school (according to my parents) so I can get a job easily. If you are going nursing, make sure you do really well on that MCAT so they know you have the smarts for the job.
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On July 06 2010 01:25 radar14 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing. So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined. In response to some of your points... Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills. "Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time. The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38.
People do grad school which can take up to 6 years if not longer before med school, at least nursing doesn't hinge on your experiments.
Asshole nurses aren't asshole doctors, I picked this up pretty quickly shadowing some of the people around my regional hospital. They might act like pricks (ever so subtly) towards the patients and fellow residents but definitely not to their nurses, it's the quickest way to hinder your career.
Also, people want to be doctors, there's this social standing that goes with it. You don't get the same response from people if you say you're a physicians assistant than if you said you are a doctor. Funnily enough, there isn't this negative stigma attached to it either like there would be if you were a lawyer or a businessman.
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Oh man good luck with that. What schools are you looking into currently?
I'm afraid of medical school so there is no way in hell I'm going down that path.
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Get micronesia to tutor you to get that physics score up!
You seem like an underachiever with your GPA. From what I know GPA is mostly a measure of effort. And for you to be scoring that high on the MCAT means you didn't try hard enough.
Oh well; lord knows i'll never change
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Good luck! I don't know anything about what you are talking about, but I get the feeling that it's hard!
Study hard~
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CA10824 Posts
On July 06 2010 12:28 Faronel wrote:Get micronesia to tutor you to get that physics score up! You seem like an underachiever with your GPA. From what I know GPA is mostly a measure of effort. And for you to be scoring that high on the MCAT means you didn't try hard enough. Oh well; lord knows i'll never change
haha yeah i wish i had a physics tutor. i just can't stand the subject in general.
am i an underachiever? perhaps, perhaps not. i like to think of myself as someone who is reasonably intelligent, although from the people i've met at my university i've realized i'm far from actually being "smart", whatever that word means.
yes GPA is a measure of effort, but it's also a measure of how well you stack up against the competition. my school's bio and chem departments have rigid curves where the top 15% (out of 600 or so students) will receives A/A-, 25% Bs, 40% Cs, 15% Ds and 5% Fs. I am usually slightly above average but not enough to get into the A range at my university.
i will be the first to admit that i definitely could have tried harder, especially during my 1st and 3rd years. i had a lot of different circumstances that made it tough for me but i guess it's up for the adcom to decide whether or not my reasons are legit. + Show Spoiler +i had a lot of crap to go through in college. for example my 1st year i was in a LDRwith my gf and every night we'd talk on the phone for 2-3 hours which would make me exhausted every day since i'd be going to bed super late. i don't really regret this though because we're still together now. my finals/midterm schedules would always be terrible, oftentimes doubling up on the same day or having 3 back to back, etc. i always worked during college, working up to 3 jobs simultaneously at one point. my family's financial situation wasn't (and still isn't) really that great so i promised myself that i'd never ask them for money. i paid for all my textbooks, airfare, dorm/apartment essentials, etc. if any readers care, here's a link to a previous blog i wrote about myself if you want more background information. there was also a few other strange issues that went on with my family... like one of my uncles stole money from my grandparents and now we're basically estranged. that whole debacle happened during fall semester of my senior year of college. another would be finding out during junior year that my grandmother was diagnosed with cancer and she was going through really painful chemo treatments
i would always get super frustrated because i'd study with a group of friends and we'd approximately the same amount of stuff but they'd always end up with like 5 or 10 points higher than me on each midterm, which, at the end of the semester, would end up being the difference between a B and an A- or something like that. those friends were all accepted to allopathic schools lol.
anyway i try to keep a positive outlook on life though, i really believe that if i am able to apply myself and really bunker down and study hard i can pull off a score necessary for me to do become a doctor. oh, and to clarify i have no intention of applying for MD. i know i don't stand a chance. back to studying for now...
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On July 06 2010 12:06 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 01:25 radar14 wrote:On July 06 2010 00:53 Biochemist wrote:
Reasons to do nursing before medicine:
1) Nurses get a lot more hands-on experience that, depending on your specialty, can make you a better physician. Ever see a doctor try to draw blood? It's not pretty. Biochemistry may help you be a better medical student, but it surely won't help you be a better doctor.
2) Nursing experience will make you a much better medical student, both in the classroom and in the clinic.
3) People who have been nurses and are now medical students or doctors are much less likely to be asshats. I have several friends who are nurses or in nursing school who have to put up with all sorts of arrogant prickishness from med students who think they already walk on water.
Reasons NOT to do nursing before medicine:
1) It can screw up your GPA. Pre-nursing classes are easier than pre-medical classes, but a lot of the actual nursing classes can be pretty hard, especially if you don't have great professors. Just because you're smart enough to make it into medical school doesn't mean nursing is a cakewalk.
2) It takes longer. If you're looking for the fastest route into medicine, it's not nursing. So just to be clear, you're advocating that someone get a 4 year nursing degree, and then take 2 years of science requirements to take the MCAT and then apply to medical school? Constructing your argument the way you did is misleading, because reason #2 for reasons NOT to do nursing is far more important for most people than all your other reasons combined. In response to some of your points... Hands on experience: IMO, dubious. Sure, you'll learn how to put in Foleys and draw blood and put in IVs. If your future specialty requires that you be able to do this on a regular basis, you will obviously receive this training during residency and beyond. There are plenty of specialties that will never require such skills. "Nursing will make you a better student": As will going to pharmacy school, PA school, getting advanced degrees in pharmacology, physiology, etc. All these take time. The "asshat" issue: Disagree pretty hard here too. Asshole nurses will be asshole doctors. Cool nurses will be cool doctors. Those prickish medical students will understand what goes around comes around, when they are prickish residents and the nurses are paging them at 3 am for a temp of 38. People do grad school which can take up to 6 years if not longer before med school, at least nursing doesn't hinge on your experiments. Asshole nurses aren't asshole doctors, I picked this up pretty quickly shadowing some of the people around my regional hospital. They might act like pricks (ever so subtly) towards the patients and fellow residents but definitely not to their nurses, it's the quickest way to hinder your career. Also, people want to be doctors, there's this social standing that goes with it. You don't get the same response from people if you say you're a physicians assistant than if you said you are a doctor. Funnily enough, there isn't this negative stigma attached to it either like there would be if you were a lawyer or a businessman.
What? I feel like you somehow misinterpreted everything I wrote, or you just decided to write a bunch of tangents because you have some experience and just wanted to have an opinion.
EDIT: it's late and I'm cranky, but I will try to address those points.
Yes, people to indeed get a PhD before med school. I doubt many of them would say it is the plan they originally had, i.e. most of them did not start graduate school with the intent of going to medical school as this is a colossal waste of time and they would have just applied MD/PhD. What we were discussing is whether it is a good idea to decide to get a nursing degree with the intent of applying to medical school. Not really the same thing, right?
In regards to "asshats." The original point of contention was whether nurses who become doctors will be less arrogant/stuck-up in general, not whether they will treat nurses better. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
I'm guessing you were referring to the small line about what would make a better student. That was in response to a post saying that nursing would better prepare you for medical school. I was simply saying that there are many other things that could also prepare you for medical school, and that this shouldn't be considered an advantage specific to nursing.
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Bumping your MCAT thread
Taking mine on Friday.
I got a 26 (8/10/8) and then a 32 (10/9/13) on the two princeton review FLs
took the aamc#4 this morning and got a 34 (12/11/11)
Going to take three more monday/tuesday/wednesday and maybe a fourth on thursday depending on how burned out I am. Thursday evening I'll just go over all the physics formula flash cards again to make sure they're all cemented in there. Do people score lower on the more recent aamc tests and on the real thing than on these others? I need to get at least a 32, and I won't have even touched OChem or GChem since I'm basically studying for it in two weeks and haven't had the time.
Should I do aamc 8/9/10 as my last three?
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My personal philosophy with standardized tests is to not overwhelm yourself on the last week with practice exams since they are really just for evaluating your progress. I think you would be better served by reviewing materials and doing questions in your weaker areas. I would do two tests max. You do not want to be burned out by the time you actually take the test. You want to be well rested, relaxed, confident.
It sounds like you have been doing pretty well on the practice tests. No need to rock the boat and shake your confidence if you happen to not do well on a practice test considering the real exam is so close.
I would definitely not do anything too intensive the day before, probably just a few Verbal passages and review the short-term memory type stuff. Nothing after dinner obviously. Try to get a good night's sleep. Eat a good breakfast, e.g. oatmeal. Bring multiple layers of clothing so you can adjust to temperature extremes at the test site. Pack a light lunch that'll keep you going. Ignore/avoid all the neurotic crazies studying in between blocks.
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I'm Korean as well and I'm writing MCAT on 07/30... which is in 19 days!
I'm kinda freaking out... but you shouldn't
You still have PLENTY of time. Physics in AAMC is not that big of a deal once you get all the contents down. What I mean is that you have to memorize all formulas know when to use them. As well as being able to attack conceptual problems with proper reasoning. Fortunately, MCAT physics is not difficult, it's just a lot. With time I'm sure you can hit at least 12s in PS and BS. However, I don't recommend studying physics solely with EK. I consider it very dense and there are some unnecessary details in there that might throw you off as well as some details that are left out. I'm currently using TPR-Hyperlearning but people say Berkeley's is the best, so you should check different sources if you think EK is not thorough enough.
Another note on BS. Make sure you memorize everything in EK book. Like read through them for like 4 times at least. Also, you should take notes so that you can memorize things much faster. EK book helped me raise my practice score from 10 to 14. It's the best BIO source. Accompanying this with EK 1001 will help you cement the basics down cold. It's possible to go through book and the 1001 in a week, and it will get you at least 12 in BS.
Finally, 26 on first diagnostic is AMAZING. I scored like 18. 1 month into studying I got 26s. Now I'm getting low 30s, trying to finish up review so that I can get at least 35 on the real deal. Compared to me, you still have a bunch of time. Try to take notes and memorize everything. It will help you a tons.
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On July 12 2010 12:06 radar14 wrote:
My personal philosophy with standardized tests is to not overwhelm yourself on the last week with practice exams since they are really just for evaluating your progress. I think you would be better served by reviewing materials and doing questions in your weaker areas. I would do two tests max. You do not want to be burned out by the time you actually take the test. You want to be well rested, relaxed, confident.
It sounds like you have been doing pretty well on the practice tests. No need to rock the boat and shake your confidence if you happen to not do well on a practice test considering the real exam is so close.
I would definitely not do anything too intensive the day before, probably just a few Verbal passages and review the short-term memory type stuff. Nothing after dinner obviously. Try to get a good night's sleep. Eat a good breakfast, e.g. oatmeal. Bring multiple layers of clothing so you can adjust to temperature extremes at the test site. Pack a light lunch that'll keep you going. Ignore/avoid all the neurotic crazies studying in between blocks.
I kinda disagree with this. The MCAT has a limited amount of information on it, and a lot of it pops up on almost every test. As I take the tests I've been making lists of the things I didn't remember how to do, and then making sure I understood why I missed the question afterwards. I've gotten my speed up to where I can finish the science sections with 20-30 minutes left, and I think it's helping me with Verbal, too.
That said, I might skip the FL on Tuesday and go through the OChem book and practice my writing sample strategies a bit.
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haha this is nostalgic to my MCAT journy. I am applying right now
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Good luck dude, I'm taking my MCAT this Friday lol. Hoping to bust above a 38 (got a 34 my first time). Second year applying to med school, applied to some SMPs too just in case. Had a 3.6 GPA, applied too late in the cycle cause I'm retarded (December? Barely made the cutoff), didn't make it. One thing I can't stress enough is to keep taking practice tests, as many as possible. After a while, you'll get use to all the different types of questions and identifying them even though they look different. Good luck on getting in med school, have you thought about where you want to apply to?
If you want some help with information and stuff, studentdoctor.net is great for that. Not so much on advice cause they pretty much shoot down anyone with a GPA below 3.8 cause they're a bunch of overachieving pompous douches but they have TONS of info on everything medical school related. Cheers
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Jesus. I don't know how exactly that GPA factors into the equation, but does a 38 vs a 34 really matter THAT much, it warrants retaking the test? To my mind, that's like a 1540 vs a 1600 on the SAT (assuming old 1600 scoring system)... who really cares?
Things have changed a lot in 8 years, I guess. Sometimes it's good to be an old fart.
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On July 14 2010 13:39 sutureself wrote:Jesus. I don't know how exactly that GPA factors into the equation, but does a 38 vs a 34 really matter THAT much, it warrants retaking the test? To my mind, that's like a 1540 vs a 1600 on the SAT (assuming old 1600 scoring system)... who really cares? Things have changed a lot in 8 years, I guess. Sometimes it's good to be an old fart.
Depends on the school you want to go to. Medicine has certainly gotten more competitive; a 34 is the median if not below for matriculants at many top schools.
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What did you guys score on AAMC 8? I just took that and got a 28.
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On July 05 2010 17:33 eshlow wrote:
Typically you'll be graduating college at 22... depending on MD/PhD program you'll be doing 4 years for PhD adn 4 years for med school = 30. Then you have your residency as an MD which, depending on your field is anywhere from 2-8+ years. Neurosurgery is like 10+ not really including fellowships, orthopedic surgery is at least 6 IIRC plus fellowships.... On average at residency you're probably looking at least at 3-4 years.
Then as a MD/PhD you're most likely going to be doing research.... and not making any money at all so you're pretty much a highly educated poor person. GL starting a family or doing anything you want to then.
Can someone expound on this? I've been leaning more towards an MD/PhD because I really enjoy doing research. What irks me the most is that I'll be in school for so long yet I don't even know if I'll be able to even pay back the loans :/
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On July 15 2010 07:47 javy925 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:33 eshlow wrote:
Typically you'll be graduating college at 22... depending on MD/PhD program you'll be doing 4 years for PhD adn 4 years for med school = 30. Then you have your residency as an MD which, depending on your field is anywhere from 2-8+ years. Neurosurgery is like 10+ not really including fellowships, orthopedic surgery is at least 6 IIRC plus fellowships.... On average at residency you're probably looking at least at 3-4 years.
Then as a MD/PhD you're most likely going to be doing research.... and not making any money at all so you're pretty much a highly educated poor person. GL starting a family or doing anything you want to then.
Can someone expound on this? I've been leaning more towards an MD/PhD because I really enjoy doing research. What irks me the most is that I'll be in school for so long yet I don't even know if I'll be able to even pay back the loans :/
I believe MD/PhD's get their grant so tuition is practically free.
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On July 15 2010 07:56 premedsc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2010 07:47 javy925 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:33 eshlow wrote:
Typically you'll be graduating college at 22... depending on MD/PhD program you'll be doing 4 years for PhD adn 4 years for med school = 30. Then you have your residency as an MD which, depending on your field is anywhere from 2-8+ years. Neurosurgery is like 10+ not really including fellowships, orthopedic surgery is at least 6 IIRC plus fellowships.... On average at residency you're probably looking at least at 3-4 years.
Then as a MD/PhD you're most likely going to be doing research.... and not making any money at all so you're pretty much a highly educated poor person. GL starting a family or doing anything you want to then.
Can someone expound on this? I've been leaning more towards an MD/PhD because I really enjoy doing research. What irks me the most is that I'll be in school for so long yet I don't even know if I'll be able to even pay back the loans :/ I believe MD/PhD's get their grant so tuition is practically free.
ah, that's right :D. Where's the best place to get more information about going that path (MD/PhD)?
edit: this seems like a good resource: http://www.aamc.org/students/considering/research/mdphd/
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On July 15 2010 07:16 GrayArea wrote:
What did you guys score on AAMC 8? I just took that and got a 28.
I got a 36 on both 8 and 10 (13/11/12 and 14/10/12). 10 is supposed to have really brutal VR.
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On July 15 2010 09:35 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2010 07:16 GrayArea wrote:
What did you guys score on AAMC 8? I just took that and got a 28. I got a 36 on both 8 and 10 (13/11/12 and 14/10/12). 10 is supposed to have really brutal VR.
Are you rigged? How are you missing so few. Also, I seem to lose my stamina by the time bio comes around. Any tips?
Also, I am consistently scoring 9 on the verbal. I'm not really improving. Gah.
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Good luck to all! I remember those MCAT days.
I'm in 3rd year medical school right now and TL has kept me through those short, angst-filled nights between calls.
Bad news: you'll be taking exams for the rest of your life, each one feeling more important and stressful than the previous.
Good news: once your done with the MCATs, flush every aspect of it asap. Almost all that knowledge is useless for medical school and beyond. Party your brains out... while you still have the time
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On July 14 2010 13:39 sutureself wrote:Jesus. I don't know how exactly that GPA factors into the equation, but does a 38 vs a 34 really matter THAT much, it warrants retaking the test? To my mind, that's like a 1540 vs a 1600 on the SAT (assuming old 1600 scoring system)... who really cares? Things have changed a lot in 8 years, I guess. Sometimes it's good to be an old fart.
depends how many people get less than 38
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On July 15 2010 09:43 GrayArea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2010 09:35 Biochemist wrote:On July 15 2010 07:16 GrayArea wrote:
What did you guys score on AAMC 8? I just took that and got a 28. I got a 36 on both 8 and 10 (13/11/12 and 14/10/12). 10 is supposed to have really brutal VR. Are you rigged? How are you missing so few. Also, I seem to lose my stamina by the time bio comes around. Any tips? Also, I am consistently scoring 9 on the verbal. I'm not really improving. Gah.
I'm not sure what to say about verbal. Counting all my practice tests (first two were TPR, rest were official), my VR did something like 10-9-11-10-11 so no real change. I haven't studied it at all, since I've been focusing on the sciences.
I've been using process of elimination to great effect. I mark every question where I'm either unsure of the answer or am curious to see how they explain the answer, and my %correct of marked questions is between 60 and 75% most of the time.... so that's really where I pull ahead of the 30 crowd. Process of elimination saves you a lot of time. If you go through a question and you can't decide on an answer, read it again and then cross out all the WRONG ones. that usually gets me back to one or two, and if there's two it's a lot easier to compare them because I'm no longer distracted by the other ones.
Sometimes the MCAT likes to put really hard answers on there that they don't expect you to know, but they DO expect you to understand that the other three potential answers are wrong. A lot of people panic and guess on those when they shouldn't have to.
Given my attention span, I'm surprised that I haven't really had problems with running out of stamina on BS. Having a good system for the writing sample helps, because then the writing sample turns into an hour-long break instead of a stressful event. Don't worry about writing 6s, just get a solid three-paragraph-system down that'll usually get you a decent 4 or 5 essay. Medical schools don't care about the writing sample unless you get a K or something, so don't stress yourself out over it.
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I work at a hospital where one of the hospitalists went to American University in the Caribbean. Seems to be a pretty nice guy and good doctor.
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On July 15 2010 11:33 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2010 09:43 GrayArea wrote:On July 15 2010 09:35 Biochemist wrote:On July 15 2010 07:16 GrayArea wrote:
What did you guys score on AAMC 8? I just took that and got a 28. I got a 36 on both 8 and 10 (13/11/12 and 14/10/12). 10 is supposed to have really brutal VR. Are you rigged? How are you missing so few. Also, I seem to lose my stamina by the time bio comes around. Any tips? Also, I am consistently scoring 9 on the verbal. I'm not really improving. Gah. I'm not sure what to say about verbal. Counting all my practice tests (first two were TPR, rest were official), my VR did something like 10-9-11-10-11 so no real change. I haven't studied it at all, since I've been focusing on the sciences. I've been using process of elimination to great effect. I mark every question where I'm either unsure of the answer or am curious to see how they explain the answer, and my %correct of marked questions is between 60 and 75% most of the time.... so that's really where I pull ahead of the 30 crowd. Process of elimination saves you a lot of time. If you go through a question and you can't decide on an answer, read it again and then cross out all the WRONG ones. that usually gets me back to one or two, and if there's two it's a lot easier to compare them because I'm no longer distracted by the other ones. Sometimes the MCAT likes to put really hard answers on there that they don't expect you to know, but they DO expect you to understand that the other three potential answers are wrong. A lot of people panic and guess on those when they shouldn't have to. Given my attention span, I'm surprised that I haven't really had problems with running out of stamina on BS. Having a good system for the writing sample helps, because then the writing sample turns into an hour-long break instead of a stressful event. Don't worry about writing 6s, just get a solid three-paragraph-system down that'll usually get you a decent 4 or 5 essay. Medical schools don't care about the writing sample unless you get a K or something, so don't stress yourself out over it.
I really appreciate your input, thanks. Ya, I think I need to work on eliminating the ones I know are wrong right off the bat so I can pick out the right answer more quickly. I usually spend time debating between all 4 which really cuts me on time as well.
Some verbal passages (usually the easier ones that are interesting) just really click for me, and I'm able to get right answers right away. But some of them are so bleh that I miss like 3-4 on those passages and they add up.
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A lot of the BS stand-alones and passages are really easy for me given my background; I actually miss most of my BS points on the OChem. I did ochem in 9 weeks over the summer last year and don't remember most of it. I'll probably study it a little more tomorrow and go over my practice tests again, but other than that I'm just going to take the day off and relax.
Big day on Friday!
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In my opinion, MD/PhD is good for one thing: the free tuition. If four years of your life is worth that, more power to you. I'd say about 75% of my MD/PhD friends regret doing it.
You don't need a PhD in addition to an MD to contribute good research to the medical community. In fact, a lot of my friends got so burnt out by the time they finished their PhD that they really despise doing research now, which is not ideal if you want to stay in academia.
Just some musings from a 3rd year resident...
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On July 15 2010 12:50 sutureself wrote:
In my opinion, MD/PhD is good for one thing: the free tuition. If four years of your life is worth that, more power to you. I'd say about 75% of my MD/PhD friends regret doing it.
You don't need a PhD in addition to an MD to contribute good research to the medical community. In fact, a lot of my friends got so burnt out by the time they finished their PhD that they really despise doing research now, which is not ideal if you want to stay in academia.
Just some musings from a 3rd year resident...
You have a really good point and I do doubt that I need a PhD to do research.
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CA10824 Posts
On July 15 2010 12:27 Biochemist wrote:
A lot of the BS stand-alones and passages are really easy for me given my background; I actually miss most of my BS points on the OChem. I did ochem in 9 weeks over the summer last year and don't remember most of it. I'll probably study it a little more tomorrow and go over my practice tests again, but other than that I'm just going to take the day off and relax.
Big day on Friday!
good luck! i'm sure you'll kill it
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PS seemed a little harder than normal... but considering my last two practice tests got me a 13 and 14 in PS, I'm not terribly worried. It tested several concepts I hadn't really focused on though, so I might end up with a 10 or 11. Not the end of the world
VR seemed WAAAY easier than normal. Like, there's usually two or three passages that are filled with jargon and you have to spend 5 minutes just decrypting/translating before you can start making progress on it. Didn't have that problem, so even though the passages were all a paragraph or two longer I didn't really notice and still finished on time. For the first 3 passages especially I was pretty much 100% convinced of the correct answer, so I feel really good. I've never gotten more than an 11 in practice, so I'm hoping I might have actually done better than that.
BS... I'm not sure. I was getting burned out towards the end, and there was one passage involving polyadenylation that took me a long time to interpret... when I finally (I think) figured everything out, I ended up changing half of my answers. So we'll see... the ochem on it was pretty easy. Maybe an 11 or 12 if I'm lucky.
First writing sample prompt was easy and fun, second one was annoying and I ran out of time. Realized with about 50 seconds left that I was ALL OVER THE PLACE and had no unity at all... so tried to just tie everything together with two sentences at the end. Felt like the first one was 4.5-5, and the second one was like a 2. FML
Overall though, good enough to get a few acceptances I hope.
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I'm studying for MCATs as well. It's killing me. Everytime I feel confident, I get shut down...
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I've been seriously considering returning to school to enter pre-med. Over the past couple years I have found a strong passion for medical related topics. I spend hours reading medical studies in my own time just out of pure fascination. I finished school 3-4 years ago as a programming student, and feel that lack of passion is preventing me from making that step from "good" to "great". The more I think about it, and the more I talk to people, the more I want to make the change.
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Scores just came out: 35Q (12/11/12)
About what I expected. Was hoping for a 39, was worried about a 29. Really glad that's over with now.
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On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply.
Keep in mind the average Ph.D. takes 6 years to complete. It took me 5 1/2 years. After that you are probably close to 30 and will want to settle down, not begin spending 200K on a new degree. Food for thought.
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On August 18 2010 05:47 GreatFall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply. Keep in mind the average Ph.D. takes 6 years to complete. It took me 5 1/2 years. After that you are probably close to 30 and will want to settle down, not begin spending 200K on a new degree. Food for thought.
MD/PHD's are completely different from getting a traditional PHD and then an MD. You're entire education is subsidized with stipend, and everything is condensed into a single 7-year program that can be completed in 6 years for a select few because the MD and PHD curriculums are partially integrated. Still, from a monetary standpoint, its a terrible deal. However, its a great option if you want to be a academic doctor/medical school professor in your future. Amazingly, even though many people who go through this program don't finish their residencies until age 37, MD/PHD programs are very competitive.
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On August 18 2010 06:25 Try wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 05:47 GreatFall wrote:On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply. Keep in mind the average Ph.D. takes 6 years to complete. It took me 5 1/2 years. After that you are probably close to 30 and will want to settle down, not begin spending 200K on a new degree. Food for thought. MD/PHD's are completely different from getting a traditional PHD and then an MD. You're entire education is subsidized with stipend, and everything is condensed into a single 7-year program that can be completed in 6 years for a select few because the MD and PHD curriculums are partially integrated. Still, from a monetary standpoint, its a terrible deal. However, its a great option if you want to be a academic doctor/medical school professor in your future. Amazingly, even though many people who go through this program don't finish their residencies until age 37, MD/PHD programs are very competitive.
Yea, I understand that, but he was saying he wanted to do a Ph.D. 1st then do MD. That's just not a good idea IMO. When you do an MD/Ph.D. you actually are 'fast-tracked' through the Ph.D. part and it usually doesn't take more than 4 years. Strait-up Ph.D.s; however, have to spend an average of 6 years just to get their degrees because their committees don't want to let them go.
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On August 18 2010 06:28 GreatFall wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 06:25 Try wrote:On August 18 2010 05:47 GreatFall wrote:On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply. Keep in mind the average Ph.D. takes 6 years to complete. It took me 5 1/2 years. After that you are probably close to 30 and will want to settle down, not begin spending 200K on a new degree. Food for thought. MD/PHD's are completely different from getting a traditional PHD and then an MD. You're entire education is subsidized with stipend, and everything is condensed into a single 7-year program that can be completed in 6 years for a select few because the MD and PHD curriculums are partially integrated. Still, from a monetary standpoint, its a terrible deal. However, its a great option if you want to be a academic doctor/medical school professor in your future. Amazingly, even though many people who go through this program don't finish their residencies until age 37, MD/PHD programs are very competitive. Yea, I understand that, but he was saying he wanted to do a Ph.D. 1st then do MD. That's just not a good idea IMO. When you do an MD/Ph.D. you actually are 'fast-tracked' through the Ph.D. part and it usually doesn't take more than 4 years. Strait-up Ph.D.s; however, have to spend an average of 6 years just to get their degrees because their committees don't want to let them go.
Ah, ok. I didn't read his post all the way through.
From what I understand (both my parents being PhD's), the reason alot of PhD's take so long is because students start working other jobs, and put off writing their dissertations as long as possible .
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On August 18 2010 06:34 Try wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 06:28 GreatFall wrote:On August 18 2010 06:25 Try wrote:On August 18 2010 05:47 GreatFall wrote:On July 05 2010 17:24 illu wrote:On July 05 2010 17:13 LosingID8 wrote:On July 05 2010 17:03 illu wrote:
3.7 cGPA is pretty much garbage for Canadian medical schools.... the median for accepted applicants for University of Toronto's medical school was 3.98 a few years ago...
My cGPA is 3.85. Maybe I am competitive for American medical schools? Mmm...
Maybe I should apply! XD perhaps grade inflation occurs more frequently in canadian unis? that's speculation on my part though. all i know is that harvard's average incoming med student had a 3.80 gpa in college. It's actually because there are very few Canadian medical schools. The rate of acceptance for Ontario is about 4%. Also Canadian medical schools are cheaper. Anyways, I am still considering doing PhD/MD. However I really don't think I will have time to do MCAT this year (I haven't even started on GRE yet.. I need to take it before this November, pretty much). I might just try to get into a PhD program first then reapply. Keep in mind the average Ph.D. takes 6 years to complete. It took me 5 1/2 years. After that you are probably close to 30 and will want to settle down, not begin spending 200K on a new degree. Food for thought. MD/PHD's are completely different from getting a traditional PHD and then an MD. You're entire education is subsidized with stipend, and everything is condensed into a single 7-year program that can be completed in 6 years for a select few because the MD and PHD curriculums are partially integrated. Still, from a monetary standpoint, its a terrible deal. However, its a great option if you want to be a academic doctor/medical school professor in your future. Amazingly, even though many people who go through this program don't finish their residencies until age 37, MD/PHD programs are very competitive. Yea, I understand that, but he was saying he wanted to do a Ph.D. 1st then do MD. That's just not a good idea IMO. When you do an MD/Ph.D. you actually are 'fast-tracked' through the Ph.D. part and it usually doesn't take more than 4 years. Strait-up Ph.D.s; however, have to spend an average of 6 years just to get their degrees because their committees don't want to let them go. Ah, ok. I didn't read his post all the way through. From what I understand (both my parents being PhD's), the reason alot of PhD's take so long is because students start working other jobs, and put off writing their dissertations as long as possible .
I think it depends on the field. I don't have any substantial knowledge of MD/PhD's but I thought the long amount of time it takes to complete the PhD is completing the disseration (and then eventually a job market paper, depending on field), I don't really hear of anyone working 'other jobs' during their PhD (I think it's impossible really, there's too much pressure to complete your dissertation and then your JMP to secure a job in academia). At least this I know this to be true for Economics and Finance PhD's.
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Umm what? PhD's dont take so long because students flake out and work other jobs, its mostly just the luck of the draw with how relevant and effective your lab is, and how your results come out, that dictate whether or not you can put out results and publish enough to complete your dissertation. Entropic is right, from my experience with the sciences.
A few exaggerations and issues also with what people are saying about MD/PhD: the average right now is 8 years, though there are many 7 year programs, and the PhD portion (which is supposed to take 4 or 3 years) is usually dependent on all of the above factors as well, and sometimes can prolong total time to degree to 9+ years. MD/PhD offers a little bit more than an MD degree for those with a strong interest in translational or clinical research.
Money wise while you do end up pushing off your serious earning years another 3-4 years, you avoid a very large amount of debt that you usually incur as a MD student, so it's debatable. On the other side, you will almost certainly make more than a PhD student and have a much better chance of scoring an academic faculty position than him.
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On August 18 2010 07:55 duckett wrote:
Umm what? PhD's dont take so long because students flake out and work other jobs, its mostly just the luck of the draw with how relevant and effective your lab is, and how your results come out, that dictate whether or not you can put out results and publish enough to complete your dissertation. Entropic is right, from my experience with the sciences.
A few exaggerations and issues also with what people are saying about MD/PhD: the average right now is 8 years, though there are many 7 year programs, and the PhD portion (which is supposed to take 4 or 3 years) is usually dependent on all of the above factors as well, and sometimes can prolong total time to degree to 9+ years. MD/PhD offers a little bit more than an MD degree for those with a strong interest in translational or clinical research.
Money wise while you do end up pushing off your serious earning years another 3-4 years, you avoid a very large amount of debt that you usually incur as a MD student, so it's debatable. On the other side, you will almost certainly make more than a PhD student and have a much better chance of scoring an academic faculty position than him.
If you crunch the numbers, for the vast majority of specialties, MD/PhD is a terrible monetary investment. Take Radiology for example: starting salary over 300,000. You end up losing at least 800k worth of income (including taxes), while your loans shouldn't add up to nearly that amount, even considering interest. Plus, MD/PhD's are constantly worked to death in those extra three years. It's much more comfortable in a hospital/private practice setting after finishing residency. In any case, people who do MD/PhD for financial reasons are idiots. The only good reason to get a MD/PhD is if you want to do medical research/be a medical professor.
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MCAT Blog part two coming out anytime soon? It's been a week since September 11th.
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EPT
