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On May 05 2010 00:56 ohaicami wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 00:13 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
I'm stuck in silver and ama ctually having a hard time. I get all in cheesed every other game. I don't know how people everywhere are saying how easy it is to get to plat :/
I hate the way sc2 is played, sc1 so much better :/ Oh no. Were you ranked higher in sc1? I've loaded sc1 a few times to either watch a replay or try to get a better understanding of some of the older threads I was reading. But, I don't think I can ever go back. 
I find it so much more balanced. I hate how everything in sc2 has a hard counter. And just getting my game sense back sucks.. I never have any diea what my opponent is doing just because idk all the builds for every race
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On May 05 2010 00:41 Kralic wrote:
You can do it!
In patch 1 I went from Copper to Platinum took a lot more games than it does now, but it helped me improve at the game so much. Copper was about 30 games, bronze was about 60, silver was about 40 and gold was about 25. Of course as soon as I hit Platinum the first reset happened. I do miss silver, it was my most favourite league for the diversity of skill you played.
Interesting. I used to feel a bit self conscious when my ratio hit the 30/30 mark. I was wondering if I'm just playing way too many matches and should give up lol. Then, I realized the #1 in copper played 100+ games, so I'm not too worried now. Knowing that the 'higher' divisions mean less matches, it probably means quality > quantity, right?
Silver sounds dope. I wouldn't mind settling for Silver.
Thanks a lot :D
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Some people you are matched up against can be really bad, so just hope you get a bunch of those 
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I've loaded sc1 a few times to either watch a replay or try to get a better understanding of some of the older threads I was reading. But, I don't think I can ever go back.
Oh man, I'm having fun with beta enjoying the cool new toy if you will, but SC1 is still where it's at, maybe SC2 will get there but for now the strategical depth, the character of the units, the micro, etc. is just better in BW.
As far as getting better, at your level its like 90% about macro. Just keep those minerals low and the probes/drones/scv's flowing nonstop. Honestly, if you focus 95% on macro and maybe watch your army for a couple seconds to position as you make a big attack you'll notice a huge difference. Just get used to constatnt production from your production facilities, having enough production buildings, and not getting supply capped and you'll start to go on a tear in the lower divisions.
I lost my placement matches 0-5 so I could start in copper and work up, since i just got my key a few days ago and had read/watched a grand total of maybe 20 minutes of SC2 stuff ever a and didn't want to start out getting completely obliterated. So basically the only thing I really have going for me is acceptable mechanics yet I've been tearing through silver and gold players just trying to macro and get an expansion up at a reasonable time. I've lost some here and there to early attacks I wasn't expecting (mass viking, banshees (lol, didn't know they could cloak),early mass ling, etc.), but in general even against silver and low gold players I feel like I'm just steamrolling them with decent macro, even though my strategy and unit compositions tend to be suboptimal.
So I'd say the biggest thing is focus really hard on getting decent mechanics for couple weeks and then when it gets natural to keep minerals nice and low with good worker production and avoidance of supply caps, especially during battle/harass, start to think a little more about wha strategies to use and how to micro your units.
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On May 05 2010 00:49 gogogadgetflow wrote:Show nested quote +I'm the OCD type of person who disgustingly enjoys starting from the bottom and working their way up.
So I'm assuming you just try to get to the strongest units as soon as possible. I've never been in copper but I'm guessing you could faceroll everybody there just by constant scv production and being very aggressive as soon as you can get low tier units. This lets you focus on small parts of the game and prevents you from having to get in macro fests vs weak players while your mechanics (managing many units/structures) are still developing (to put it nicely) edit: also start hotkeying everything and using keyboard shortcuts instead of clicks ALWAYS - this takes time if you are new to rts but if you dont start now you will get stuck somewhere in bronze/silver anyways
I don't necessarily go for stronger units. (I admit, the very first match I played ever when I was demo-ing it at Blizzard HQ ... I made a battle cruiser just to hear the Russian), but I'm usually pretty loyal to a certain BO or strat. What happens, I guess, is I try to get fancy. Start with Reapers, plan to go Banshee's, then end up scrambling for MMM's midgame. Something stupid like that.
I mentioned this to someone else earlier, but I don't mind saying it again... I watched ONE terran match that TLO played against ... someone (can't remember) and I won like, 23+ games in one sitting. The concept of just being aggressive with low tier units completely lifted some retard-barrier I had on. Whenever I have my first cluster of Marines/Marauders I just send them in to harass. It's usually after that do I start getting
I've been very fluent with my SCV production, but I find myself not spending it on the right things. For some reason I'll focus on dropping another expansion or pumping out more units, as opposed to what someone suggested earlier (which was to add more production buildings). But, I will try to level up my mechanics, as you say it  . That seems to be key.
Oh, and I'm terrible with hotkeys. At least, I've never really gone further than hotkey-ing my CC's to 1, 2, 3 etc. For Mule's/Scans. I've played a bunch of RTS, but this is the first time I've actually taken it seriously. (Pretty much.. past the campaign and friendly 1v1's.)
Thank you so much for the advice
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On May 05 2010 01:07 Zidane wrote:Some people you are matched up against can be really bad, so just hope you get a bunch of those
I've had those haha. I think I blew it though when I hit 5th and started getting (allegedly) low silvers. Then I was stuck not knowing what to do because all I ever had experience from were the scrubs and freebies. Now, I guess, I'm really learning shit.
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On May 05 2010 01:13 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +I've loaded sc1 a few times to either watch a replay or try to get a better understanding of some of the older threads I was reading. But, I don't think I can ever go back. Oh man, I'm having fun with beta enjoying the cool new toy if you will, but SC1 is still where it's at, maybe SC2 will get there but for now the strategical depth, the character of the units, the micro, etc. is just better in BW. As far as getting better, at your level its like 90% about macro. Just keep those minerals low and the probes/drones/scv's flowing nonstop. Honestly, if you focus 95% on macro and maybe watch your army for a couple seconds to position as you make a big attack you'll notice a huge difference. Just get used to constatnt production from your production facilities, having enough production buildings, and not getting supply capped and you'll start to go on a tear in the lower divisions. I lost my placement matches 0-5 so I could start in copper and work up, since i just got my key a few days ago and had read/watched a grand total of maybe 20 minutes of SC2 stuff ever a and didn't want to start out getting completely obliterated. So basically the only thing I really have going for me is acceptable mechanics yet I've been tearing through silver and gold players just trying to macro and get an expansion up at a reasonable time. I've lost some here and there to early attacks I wasn't expecting (mass viking, banshees (lol, didn't know they could cloak),early mass ling, etc.), but in general even against silver and low gold players I feel like I'm just steamrolling them with decent macro, even though my strategy and unit compositions tend to be suboptimal. So I'd say the biggest thing is focus really hard on getting decent mechanics for couple weeks and then when it gets natural to keep minerals nice and low with good worker production and avoidance of supply caps, especially during battle/harass, start to think a little more about wha strategies to use and how to micro your units.
No kidding? Macro is what I've been hearing from everyone else as well. I had been told that my Micro game was my weak point. So, these past 10-15 games that I've played, I heavily concentrated on my Micro capability. I must have completely dropped Macro because the problems that I'm having are things that can be easily fixed by macro-ing properly. Haha, I even got yelled at because I beat some Z player with just Marines & Medivacs. Said something about learning how to macro and that I was a 15APM idiot. Lol. I wanted to apologize and tell him he's probably right since I'm in copper, though I'd really like to know what his excuse was.
He left game though :<
Minerals low is probably the main goal I plan to hit. I want to not only stay low, but be conscious of where they're going. I sometimes dump minerals into 10 or so marines, send them into battle, look away for one second, and realize that they were just obliterated by a Void Ray. Doh.
Supply Caps, CHECK. I feel completely stupid when I hear the embarassing "Not enough Supply Depots". I mean, really? Lol, but I can learn!
Thank you so much for the tips. I'm seriously taking them to the drawing board.
PS: sc1 will always have a place in my heart. I've been only a spectator in the sc1 scene, never really playing. Imagine a little kid who loves basketball, knows the teams, players, clutch moments, but only ever really plays in their own driveway. That was me. Sc2 has literally given me a chance to start clean, and hopefully, get to competitive level. (Though I secretly just want to commentate matches heh.)
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On May 05 2010 01:03 Ian Ian Ian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 00:56 ohaicami wrote:On May 05 2010 00:13 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
I'm stuck in silver and ama ctually having a hard time. I get all in cheesed every other game. I don't know how people everywhere are saying how easy it is to get to plat :/
I hate the way sc2 is played, sc1 so much better :/ Oh no. Were you ranked higher in sc1? I've loaded sc1 a few times to either watch a replay or try to get a better understanding of some of the older threads I was reading. But, I don't think I can ever go back. I find it so much more balanced. I hate how everything in sc2 has a hard counter. And just getting my game sense back sucks.. I never have any diea what my opponent is doing just because idk all the builds for every race
For a game that's been out as long as SC1 has, there's a lot of logic that either needs to be shed or learned. Both for new comers and veterans. I'm sure being an oldschool-er gives you a little bit of a heads up against the new guys.
Plus, I'm just looking forward to the already established Pro Players and see what they'll do with it.
But, I do hope you end up enjoying SC2
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No matter how fast you get, you're always wishing you could do more in certain situations. The best players are the ones who can decide and act upon the best actions when multiple things are taking up their attention at any given time.
Sometimes, micro can make the difference in games. I've been doing a lot of banshee rush/harass, and those first few banshees can win or lose me the game, depending on how well they do. If I can kill nearly every worker of my opponent, it matters little that my minerals climb to 1k, for instance. I just need to survive any counterattack, and then can just put down 5 or 6 barracks and another CC, and just macro to win at that point. Another example is scouting - if you can micro the worker/other unit well enough to gather that extra bit of information, it can make a huge difference in the overall result of the game.
However, having a lot of shit is what wins the games. Those 2 or so banshees can give me an edge, but I can't really kill anybody without an actual army..... That scouting is useless without making a unit composition that is effective against my opponent's composition, or finding holes in his defense and having units there and ready to bust through those holes. That is where macro comes in.
Everyone starts off at the "omg, what the hell is that? A scout? Why can't my zealots attack it?" phase. Relatively speaking, I'm a pretty terrible player myself. But I try to find the right balance of micro/macro for me. It's not easy, and I do lose games that I really could have won if I made a few different decisions. You should try to strive to find the right balance for you.
Learning a good build order is a smart way to improve your win/loss ratio, as well as help with finding the balance between micro and macro; but unless you understand why each building/unit is being made at that point, you will not improve as fast as you could. Also, what works for one person may not work well for you, so be willing to look for changes you can make to suit your own playstyle.
You'll work your way out of Copper eventually. Keep playing, keep studying, keep improving, and you can make Platinum. I'm not actually in platinum right now, but I'm right near the top of Gold at the moment (peaked at #2 recently, dunno if I'm still there). Really, it doesn't seem to be too hard to get into Platinum, I was just completely surprised at how effective Nydus worms were in one placement match, and lost to an overall inferior player, otherwise I would have been 5-0 and probably placed in Platinum.....
Most importantly though:
GL HF
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On May 05 2010 02:01 lMPERVlOUS wrote:
No matter how fast you get, you're always wishing you could do more in certain situations. The best players are the ones who can decide and act upon the best actions when multiple things are taking up their attention at any given time.
Sometimes, micro can make the difference in games. I've been doing a lot of banshee rush/harass, and those first few banshees can win or lose me the game, depending on how well they do. If I can kill nearly every worker of my opponent, it matters little that my minerals climb to 1k, for instance. I just need to survive any counterattack, and then can just put down 5 or 6 barracks and another CC, and just macro to win at that point. Another example is scouting - if you can micro the worker/other unit well enough to gather that extra bit of information, it can make a huge difference in the overall result of the game.
However, having a lot of shit is what wins the games. Those 2 or so banshees can give me an edge, but I can't really kill anybody without an actual army..... That scouting is useless without making a unit composition that is effective against my opponent's composition, or finding holes in his defense and having units there and ready to bust through those holes. That is where macro comes in.
Everyone starts off at the "omg, what the hell is that? A scout? Why can't my zealots attack it?" phase. Relatively speaking, I'm a pretty terrible player myself. But I try to find the right balance of micro/macro for me. It's not easy, and I do lose games that I really could have won if I made a few different decisions. You should try to strive to find the right balance for you.
Learning a good build order is a smart way to improve your win/loss ratio, as well as help with finding the balance between micro and macro; but unless you understand why each building/unit is being made at that point, you will not improve as fast as you could. Also, what works for one person may not work well for you, so be willing to look for changes you can make to suit your own playstyle.
You'll work your way out of Copper eventually. Keep playing, keep studying, keep improving, and you can make Platinum. I'm not actually in platinum right now, but I'm right near the top of Gold at the moment (peaked at #2 recently, dunno if I'm still there). Really, it doesn't seem to be too hard to get into Platinum, I was just completely surprised at how effective Nydus worms were in one placement match, and lost to an overall inferior player, otherwise I would have been 5-0 and probably placed in Platinum.....
Most importantly though:
GL HF
Such amazing advice, thank you! I'm extremely grateful. Having made this blog post, whether or not I knew what was coming to me, has literally leveled up my perception of the game. It helps that you're a Terran player, I'm not so well versed with the other classes.
I'll definitely give it all a shot. The mechanics, scouting, and macro seems to be my weak points. I'm going to be looking out for such things in the replays that I watch from this point moving forward.
Thanks again, it really does help to read wise words of wisdom . I cherish it!
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i dont get how ppl arent in platinum. my placement matches were worse than sc1 computers.
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On May 04 2010 20:07 The6357 wrote:
lol i thought bronze was lowest league...there's copper?
oh wait...what's better bronze or copper..they both sounds equally cheap...-_-
According to Blizzard, you can smelt copper and tin into bronze using this. xD
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Hm... I was demoted to silver but I've won every single game in Silver... I guess I'm learning the game. Still have 4 AP tests but I'm gonna get back up to Gold by Friday.
EDIT: 6th place in silver right now... It's taking longer than I though.
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On May 05 2010 17:29 madnessman wrote:
Hm... I was demoted to silver but I've won every single game in Silver... I guess I'm learning the game. Still have 4 AP tests but I'm gonna get back up to Gold by Friday.
EDIT: 6th place in silver right now... It's taking longer than I though.
Maybe someone just got bumped up. Were you at the bottom? I've seen people get demoted because someone else moved up. It might have been the same in your case.
Good luck on your tests & getting gold
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On May 05 2010 11:48 mlee wrote:
i dont get how ppl arent in platinum. my placement matches were worse than sc1 computers.
Well, maybe not everyone is as awesome as you.
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On May 05 2010 12:40 lotri wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2010 20:07 The6357 wrote:
lol i thought bronze was lowest league...there's copper?
oh wait...what's better bronze or copper..they both sounds equally cheap...-_- According to Blizzard, you can smelt copper and tin into bronze using this. xD
Lol! Must level up my smelting skills then.
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On May 05 2010 10:01 ohaicami wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2010 02:01 lMPERVlOUS wrote:
No matter how fast you get, you're always wishing you could do more in certain situations. The best players are the ones who can decide and act upon the best actions when multiple things are taking up their attention at any given time.
Sometimes, micro can make the difference in games. I've been doing a lot of banshee rush/harass, and those first few banshees can win or lose me the game, depending on how well they do. If I can kill nearly every worker of my opponent, it matters little that my minerals climb to 1k, for instance. I just need to survive any counterattack, and then can just put down 5 or 6 barracks and another CC, and just macro to win at that point. Another example is scouting - if you can micro the worker/other unit well enough to gather that extra bit of information, it can make a huge difference in the overall result of the game.
However, having a lot of shit is what wins the games. Those 2 or so banshees can give me an edge, but I can't really kill anybody without an actual army..... That scouting is useless without making a unit composition that is effective against my opponent's composition, or finding holes in his defense and having units there and ready to bust through those holes. That is where macro comes in.
Everyone starts off at the "omg, what the hell is that? A scout? Why can't my zealots attack it?" phase. Relatively speaking, I'm a pretty terrible player myself. But I try to find the right balance of micro/macro for me. It's not easy, and I do lose games that I really could have won if I made a few different decisions. You should try to strive to find the right balance for you.
Learning a good build order is a smart way to improve your win/loss ratio, as well as help with finding the balance between micro and macro; but unless you understand why each building/unit is being made at that point, you will not improve as fast as you could. Also, what works for one person may not work well for you, so be willing to look for changes you can make to suit your own playstyle.
You'll work your way out of Copper eventually. Keep playing, keep studying, keep improving, and you can make Platinum. I'm not actually in platinum right now, but I'm right near the top of Gold at the moment (peaked at #2 recently, dunno if I'm still there). Really, it doesn't seem to be too hard to get into Platinum, I was just completely surprised at how effective Nydus worms were in one placement match, and lost to an overall inferior player, otherwise I would have been 5-0 and probably placed in Platinum.....
Most importantly though:
GL HF Such amazing advice, thank you! I'm extremely grateful. Having made this blog post, whether or not I knew what was coming to me, has literally leveled up my perception of the game. It helps that you're a Terran player, I'm not so well versed with the other classes. I'll definitely give it all a shot. The mechanics, scouting, and macro seems to be my weak points. I'm going to be looking out for such things in the replays that I watch from this point moving forward. Thanks again, it really does help to read wise words of wisdom . I cherish it!
You're welcome.
I know exactly how you feel, when you talk about "levelling up my perception of the game". I went through the exact same thing when I started watching Day[9]. Seemingly overnight, I went from a struggling D to a solid C- player in SCBW, with no real increase in mechanical skill (a grand total of 1 apm increase between the two seasons). The fact that I played Zerg, and Day[9] is also a Zerg player helped a lot too. I highly recommend watching him as often as possible, and remembering which casts were particularily applicable to you, so you can re-watch them. Also, some of his podcasts, which you can find here, were very useful to me as well. Particularily useful to me were the ones on build orders (the 5 hatch hydra and variations, or the mindset behind build orders), or on other ones such as "playing against worse players", because it provides an insight to these specific, important issues that you would not normally find elsewhere.
And that is just the knowledge coming out of 1 person. TL has thousands and thousands of good players who have shared some of their knowledge on this site. All you have to do is look. TL is an excellent resource for anyone wanting to find ways of fueling their competitive fire.
If you need any specific help, don't be afraid to ask. Just don't be like those countless idiots (I was one myself at one point) and simply post a replay, and say "ZVT IMBA" and hope for help..... Point out specific things that you are unsure of, and ask questions related to that. The more effort you put into finding help, the more effort people will put into helping you, because it shows that you actually want help.
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Congrats on #1 in your copper division. You should be in bronze in no time. Just don't get to discouraged it is only the beta and all of the loses and wins you have will net you a lot of experience to take with you for when the game is released.
This has probably been mentioned before, but don't try to go for getting both your micro play and macro play to be at the same skill. Work on one more than the other, most recommend the macro first. If you concentrate on one more than the other you will be able to win games with that mechanic alone in the lower leagues. Once you are comfortable with one of them, practice the other one while doing the other as well as you have been with it alone. I work with about 70% micro and about 30% macro. My money is usually a lot higher then I want it to be, but my units last a lot longer. I am trying to work on keeping my money as low as possible but keep my units alive for a lot longer then usual if I can.
Just remember when the game comes out the match system should match you up with people who are "equal" in skill with you on paper. If your mechanics(micro/macro) and strategies are better you will most likely win the game against that opponent.
Keep on practicing and you will obtain your goal in no time!
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EPT
