• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:56
CEST 09:56
KST 16:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1838 users

The Need For Continuity

Blogs > Slugbreath
Post a Reply
Slugbreath
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden201 Posts
April 27 2010 22:00 GMT
#1
[image loading]


StarCraft 2 has always been a hot topic amongst gamers here on Teamliquid.
When Blizzard stopped negotiating with KeSPA it caused some stir among the community and we wondered what would happen now. While some dreaded the demise of esports, others saw a new beginning with another organization than (Wiki)KeSPA leading the way. Some even turned to Economical theory to try to discern what might happen.

It’s not surprising that people have been discussing the ramifications of StarCraft 2 and Blizzard’s not-too-good relationship with KeSPA. After all, it could mean the end of StarCraft’s wide success as an esport. Amongst all of this, however, I can’t help but notice another trend. Fear.

People fear that StarCraft 2 won’t “feel” like StarCraft and won’t “be” StarCraft. This fear has brought the rather remarkable effect that whenever Blizzard announces a change from StarCraft 1, it’s bound to create a discussion, even if it’s such a thing as making the AI less buggy.



Being able to control the Dragoon despite it being a very buggy unit is one of the things that set the pros apart from the Slugbreaths and that has lead to a lot of very exiting moments in StarCraft 1.


We fear that StarCraft 2 won’t be as deep and as good as StarCraft 1 since it’s different from StarCraft 1. I am far from alone in making this observation, of course, and this year’s elaborate April’s fools joke is a great example of how strange this entire situation kind of is. Can you imagine any other game franchise where the fans would complain that the sequel was less buggy than its predecessor?

In a sense, this overzealous protectionism is one of the things that makes the StarCraft community so special. Gamers care so much about the game that the things that made the first game so deep and difficult are things we aren’t willing to throw away too easily, even if they happen to be bugs.

Concider this. If StarCraft 2 had totally different graphics, sound effects, music, names and so on and had been called something else, say Atrox 2, would we have been as interested in it as we are in StarCraft 2 even if the gameplay was identical? I doubt it.

[image loading]
(Wiki)SKELTON: one of few gamers who might be
as interested in a sequel to Atrox as a sequel to StarCraft.

Not only does the name Blizzard make us instantly know that the games will be good, but the name StarCraft makes us know that its in the StarCraft universe and with that comes a lot of expectations and a need. A need for continuity.

While most of us can agree on the fact that we don’t want StarCraft 2 to be just StarCraft 1 with better graphics, we can also agree that we do want StarCraft 2 to feel like a sequel to StarCraft 1. To sidetrack, this was one of my gripes with WarCraft III. It was a great game by its own right, but it just didn’t feel like a sequel to WarCraft II.



While an impressive game in its own right, did it really feel like a sequel to WarCraft II?


For StarCraft 2 to feel like a sequel to StarCraft 1 there is a need for continuity. We need things to be present in the sequel that was in the first game. While there technically isn’t anything stopping Blizzard from replacing the three combat basic units of StarCraft 1 (Zergling, Marine and Zealot) with three completely new units, they know that it would be a mistake to do so since it would cause unneeded controversy among the gamers. We would be in completely new waters and we wouldn’t like it.

This mixture of the familiar and the new will be crucial in making StarCraft 2 a true sequel and not just a remake with better graphics or a completely new game that has nothing to do with its predecessor.

Blizzard are of course aware of this nostalgia factor and that’s probably one of the reasons why they brought back (Wiki)Lost Temple amongst all the new maps. New and old, hand in hand.

[image loading]
By adding familiar content to StarCraft 2, the new content won’t feel as alien.


So while adding some nostalgic content to StarCraft 2 is a good thing in order to make the game feel right, there is of course a limit. If everything is the same, nothing is new and a new game hasn’t really been made. While a lot of changes are subtle and take a trained eye to spot, one is easy to see. The maps.

If Lost Temple was brought to StarCraft 2, which other maps might follow the same pattern? Will professional maps be made that are replicas of StarCraft 1 hits or will we see new maps emerge that quench the need for the old to be replicated?

While some gamers wish to bring the old classics such as (Wiki)Python back to StarCraft 2 (some have even started on this), others argue that StarCraft 1 maps should be left as StarCraft 1 maps.

As for me I am torn. While I am a nostalgic person by nature, I do see the importance of developing maps for StarCraft 2 independent of the ones made for StarCraft 1. StarCraft 2 has got different units and different tactics than its predecessor and that means that the maps will need to be different to reflect this. Despite this, there is however one map that I hope that Blizzard will remake for StarCraft 2.

[image loading]
(Wiki)Plains of Snow & baby!


Now, I know what a lot of you are thinking. “Plains of Snow? Why Plains of Snow?” and for good reason. It’s not the most original, influential nor balanced map in existence, so why have I singled out this map as my pick for a map I want to see in StarCraft 2? The answer is of course continuity.

You see, before Plains of Snow ’98 there was good ol’ Plains of Snow back in WarCraft 2.
+ Show Spoiler [Map image] +

[image loading]


When StarCraft was released, the map was remade and released as Plains of Snow '98 as a way to pay tribute to WarCraft 2. In fact, it was not the only map from WarCraft 2 to be remade for StarCraft. (Wiki)Bridge to Bridge Combat & and (Wiki)Friends ’98 are both remakes of classics.

However, when WarCraft III was released, the map Plains of Snow was once again brought to life.
+ Show Spoiler [Map image] +

[image loading]

As far as I know (though I am by no means “in the know” when it comes to WarCraft III maps) the other two maps listed previously, were not remade.

The fact that Plains of Snow was in WC2, SC and WC3 is for me reason enough to include it in SC2. You see, I am a collector and somebody who dislikes when continuity is skipped. For instance, in Magic: The Gathering, there are cards like Giant Growth that have been in the core sets of the game since the beginning.

[image loading]
[image loading]

Giant Growth, as seen in its first rendition (to the left)
and in it’s latest form (to the right)


And then there are cards like Llanowar Elves…

[image loading]

Llanowar Elves.


Llanowar Elves was first printed in Alpha and Beta, just like Giant Growth, and just like Giant Growth it was then continued to be released in the following core sets. In fact the list of core sets including Llanowar Elves is quite impressive:
Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th and 10th as well as the newest edition ”Magic 2010”.
Notice anything missing? Yup. 8th Edition.

The fact that Llanowar Elves wasn’t included in 8th Edition meant that the otherwise intact line of continuity, going all the way back to August 5, 1993, was broken in 2003.

While this might not seem like it would affect much in terms of game play, it changed the way Magic felt and most of all it was annoying for a nostalgic person such as myself to see the continuity being broken. This is something I wish to avoid in StarCraft.

So in order to have a complete and unbroken line of continuity for Blizzard, Plains of Snow should once again be remade, for the sake of continuity.

/Slugbreath

3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-27 22:21:35
April 27 2010 22:18 GMT
#2
1st post?!? lol don't understand the importance of it but wtf. Anyways, I hope blizzard remakes(in a more balanced version) Blood Bath as it is a classic.

edit: anyways, I hope Blood Bath is remade because it has been remade time and time again in SC:BW and I have a file composed of maps related to or just plain remakes of BB in different tilesets. I even played BB in the desert. In this folder I have a 6player version of Blood Bath and a mini LT that is hilarious when played on B.net because the opponent takes 10minutes just trying to figure out how to take their gas(gas position if off because of glitch). BB needs to be re-made by blizzard!
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Medzo
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States627 Posts
April 27 2010 23:22 GMT
#3
Ive had some GGs on all 3 games on plains of snow. Definitely not a balanced map though. I remember when I was very young plains of snow 98 was my favorite sc map. I would just get 12 hydralisk and go!
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
April 27 2010 23:52 GMT
#4
Nice writeup, I also remember the the old days playing plains of snow, Hunters, Blood Bath etc.
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
April 27 2010 23:54 GMT
#5
On April 28 2010 08:52 SC2Phoenix wrote:
Nice writeup, I also remember the the old days playing plains of snow, Hunters, Blood Bath etc.

still a classic
cw)minsean(ru
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 4m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech69
OGKoka 10
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 1290
actioN 917
PianO 185
Leta 163
Dewaltoss 67
soO 66
Sharp 49
Noble 42
Sacsri 16
NaDa 13
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm138
XcaliburYe85
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K717
allub175
olofmeister1
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King34
Other Games
ceh9396
C9.Mang0331
XaKoH 181
SortOf116
Pyrionflax86
Trikslyr23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick440
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 33
• LUISG 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1184
• Stunt485
• HappyZerGling132
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
3h 4m
OSC
11h 4m
RSL Revival
1d 2h
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
1d 5h
RSL Revival
2 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.