• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:17
CET 22:17
KST 06:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ What happened to TvZ on Retro? SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2284 users

The Need For Continuity

Blogs > Slugbreath
Post a Reply
Slugbreath
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden201 Posts
April 27 2010 22:00 GMT
#1
[image loading]


StarCraft 2 has always been a hot topic amongst gamers here on Teamliquid.
When Blizzard stopped negotiating with KeSPA it caused some stir among the community and we wondered what would happen now. While some dreaded the demise of esports, others saw a new beginning with another organization than (Wiki)KeSPA leading the way. Some even turned to Economical theory to try to discern what might happen.

It’s not surprising that people have been discussing the ramifications of StarCraft 2 and Blizzard’s not-too-good relationship with KeSPA. After all, it could mean the end of StarCraft’s wide success as an esport. Amongst all of this, however, I can’t help but notice another trend. Fear.

People fear that StarCraft 2 won’t “feel” like StarCraft and won’t “be” StarCraft. This fear has brought the rather remarkable effect that whenever Blizzard announces a change from StarCraft 1, it’s bound to create a discussion, even if it’s such a thing as making the AI less buggy.



Being able to control the Dragoon despite it being a very buggy unit is one of the things that set the pros apart from the Slugbreaths and that has lead to a lot of very exiting moments in StarCraft 1.


We fear that StarCraft 2 won’t be as deep and as good as StarCraft 1 since it’s different from StarCraft 1. I am far from alone in making this observation, of course, and this year’s elaborate April’s fools joke is a great example of how strange this entire situation kind of is. Can you imagine any other game franchise where the fans would complain that the sequel was less buggy than its predecessor?

In a sense, this overzealous protectionism is one of the things that makes the StarCraft community so special. Gamers care so much about the game that the things that made the first game so deep and difficult are things we aren’t willing to throw away too easily, even if they happen to be bugs.

Concider this. If StarCraft 2 had totally different graphics, sound effects, music, names and so on and had been called something else, say Atrox 2, would we have been as interested in it as we are in StarCraft 2 even if the gameplay was identical? I doubt it.

[image loading]
(Wiki)SKELTON: one of few gamers who might be
as interested in a sequel to Atrox as a sequel to StarCraft.

Not only does the name Blizzard make us instantly know that the games will be good, but the name StarCraft makes us know that its in the StarCraft universe and with that comes a lot of expectations and a need. A need for continuity.

While most of us can agree on the fact that we don’t want StarCraft 2 to be just StarCraft 1 with better graphics, we can also agree that we do want StarCraft 2 to feel like a sequel to StarCraft 1. To sidetrack, this was one of my gripes with WarCraft III. It was a great game by its own right, but it just didn’t feel like a sequel to WarCraft II.



While an impressive game in its own right, did it really feel like a sequel to WarCraft II?


For StarCraft 2 to feel like a sequel to StarCraft 1 there is a need for continuity. We need things to be present in the sequel that was in the first game. While there technically isn’t anything stopping Blizzard from replacing the three combat basic units of StarCraft 1 (Zergling, Marine and Zealot) with three completely new units, they know that it would be a mistake to do so since it would cause unneeded controversy among the gamers. We would be in completely new waters and we wouldn’t like it.

This mixture of the familiar and the new will be crucial in making StarCraft 2 a true sequel and not just a remake with better graphics or a completely new game that has nothing to do with its predecessor.

Blizzard are of course aware of this nostalgia factor and that’s probably one of the reasons why they brought back (Wiki)Lost Temple amongst all the new maps. New and old, hand in hand.

[image loading]
By adding familiar content to StarCraft 2, the new content won’t feel as alien.


So while adding some nostalgic content to StarCraft 2 is a good thing in order to make the game feel right, there is of course a limit. If everything is the same, nothing is new and a new game hasn’t really been made. While a lot of changes are subtle and take a trained eye to spot, one is easy to see. The maps.

If Lost Temple was brought to StarCraft 2, which other maps might follow the same pattern? Will professional maps be made that are replicas of StarCraft 1 hits or will we see new maps emerge that quench the need for the old to be replicated?

While some gamers wish to bring the old classics such as (Wiki)Python back to StarCraft 2 (some have even started on this), others argue that StarCraft 1 maps should be left as StarCraft 1 maps.

As for me I am torn. While I am a nostalgic person by nature, I do see the importance of developing maps for StarCraft 2 independent of the ones made for StarCraft 1. StarCraft 2 has got different units and different tactics than its predecessor and that means that the maps will need to be different to reflect this. Despite this, there is however one map that I hope that Blizzard will remake for StarCraft 2.

[image loading]
(Wiki)Plains of Snow & baby!


Now, I know what a lot of you are thinking. “Plains of Snow? Why Plains of Snow?” and for good reason. It’s not the most original, influential nor balanced map in existence, so why have I singled out this map as my pick for a map I want to see in StarCraft 2? The answer is of course continuity.

You see, before Plains of Snow ’98 there was good ol’ Plains of Snow back in WarCraft 2.
+ Show Spoiler [Map image] +

[image loading]


When StarCraft was released, the map was remade and released as Plains of Snow '98 as a way to pay tribute to WarCraft 2. In fact, it was not the only map from WarCraft 2 to be remade for StarCraft. (Wiki)Bridge to Bridge Combat & and (Wiki)Friends ’98 are both remakes of classics.

However, when WarCraft III was released, the map Plains of Snow was once again brought to life.
+ Show Spoiler [Map image] +

[image loading]

As far as I know (though I am by no means “in the know” when it comes to WarCraft III maps) the other two maps listed previously, were not remade.

The fact that Plains of Snow was in WC2, SC and WC3 is for me reason enough to include it in SC2. You see, I am a collector and somebody who dislikes when continuity is skipped. For instance, in Magic: The Gathering, there are cards like Giant Growth that have been in the core sets of the game since the beginning.

[image loading]
[image loading]

Giant Growth, as seen in its first rendition (to the left)
and in it’s latest form (to the right)


And then there are cards like Llanowar Elves…

[image loading]

Llanowar Elves.


Llanowar Elves was first printed in Alpha and Beta, just like Giant Growth, and just like Giant Growth it was then continued to be released in the following core sets. In fact the list of core sets including Llanowar Elves is quite impressive:
Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th and 10th as well as the newest edition ”Magic 2010”.
Notice anything missing? Yup. 8th Edition.

The fact that Llanowar Elves wasn’t included in 8th Edition meant that the otherwise intact line of continuity, going all the way back to August 5, 1993, was broken in 2003.

While this might not seem like it would affect much in terms of game play, it changed the way Magic felt and most of all it was annoying for a nostalgic person such as myself to see the continuity being broken. This is something I wish to avoid in StarCraft.

So in order to have a complete and unbroken line of continuity for Blizzard, Plains of Snow should once again be remade, for the sake of continuity.

/Slugbreath

3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-27 22:21:35
April 27 2010 22:18 GMT
#2
1st post?!? lol don't understand the importance of it but wtf. Anyways, I hope blizzard remakes(in a more balanced version) Blood Bath as it is a classic.

edit: anyways, I hope Blood Bath is remade because it has been remade time and time again in SC:BW and I have a file composed of maps related to or just plain remakes of BB in different tilesets. I even played BB in the desert. In this folder I have a 6player version of Blood Bath and a mini LT that is hilarious when played on B.net because the opponent takes 10minutes just trying to figure out how to take their gas(gas position if off because of glitch). BB needs to be re-made by blizzard!
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Medzo
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States627 Posts
April 27 2010 23:22 GMT
#3
Ive had some GGs on all 3 games on plains of snow. Definitely not a balanced map though. I remember when I was very young plains of snow 98 was my favorite sc map. I would just get 12 hydralisk and go!
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
April 27 2010 23:52 GMT
#4
Nice writeup, I also remember the the old days playing plains of snow, Hunters, Blood Bath etc.
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
April 27 2010 23:54 GMT
#5
On April 28 2010 08:52 SC2Phoenix wrote:
Nice writeup, I also remember the the old days playing plains of snow, Hunters, Blood Bath etc.

still a classic
cw)minsean(ru
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IPSL
20:00
Ro16 Group A
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Liquipedia
BSL 21
20:00
ProLeague - RO32 Group D
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
LiquipediaDiscussion
Online Event
18:00
Coaches Corner 2v2
RotterdaM511
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 511
IndyStarCraft 176
SteadfastSC 147
Nathanias 109
DisKSc2 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 19045
ZZZero.O 271
scan(afreeca) 28
yabsab 13
Dota 2
Pyrionflax165
Counter-Strike
fl0m1089
pashabiceps685
allub272
kRYSTAL_85
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor304
Other Games
tarik_tv8858
gofns6561
Grubby4686
B2W.Neo777
Beastyqt418
ToD21
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream9351
Other Games
EGCTV803
gamesdonequick772
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 33
• davetesta27
• Adnapsc2 6
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach75
• FirePhoenix12
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler95
League of Legends
• Doublelift1381
Other Games
• imaqtpie1359
• Shiphtur249
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 43m
Wardi Open
14h 43m
Monday Night Weeklies
19h 43m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 14h
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 23h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
IPSL
6 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.