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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3024 Posts
In any case, late game TvZ seems the hardest to macro on. How can you macro out of 10+ buildings while ultra+defiler are running around and you have to control 5 groups of units? I always stack up 2000+ minerals late game TvZ, but not TvP or TvT. Any tips? Actually I think a reason for this is how long it takes me to set up the hotkeys for new units in late game TvZ... marines are hard to click and you have to split them from medics, meanwhile $$$ piling up.   | ||
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Not_Computer
Canada2277 Posts
The only solution, aside from improving your macro since that takes time and practice, is to queue. One thing that differs from P/T and Z is that P/T can queue. While most P/T players would argue that Z has an enormous macro advantage from being able to have 3 larva waiting while they're not macroing, P/T should use their ability to queue units. Sure it seems like a "noobie" thing to do having your queue filled to 5, but even pros do that in late game and endgame. If you are about to make an attack, queue it up. If you're going to expand, queue it up. If you see him about to attack, queue it up. If you are supply blocked or maxed and have nothing else to spend it on, queue it up. But yes, it's really difficult for a player of lower apm or inefficient apm to distribute it proportionally among micro and macro. I can definitely say that my apm distribution is always lopsided. It's just experience and perhaps someone to tutor, practice, or just give general feedback to you. It's really useful to watch a replay together with a friend and have him point out when you should have been doing what. Or as other (aka, most) strategy threads, watching the replay of your failed games is the most efficient way to improve. Yes it's painful, but you might find out things like whenever zerg players move out with ultraling+swarm they're prone to single-dropship drops, etc. Also, playing aggressively can help; if you're successful and put pressure on your opponent and make him defensive, it will buy you time to expand and macro. | ||
KwarK
United States43350 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
With that extra money though, I'll like to start another ninja expo and use that money to get factories/rax/bunkers/depots/turrets at that new expansion. That'll help to not only keep your resources low, but provides a good, safe insurance of having an expo. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On February 28 2010 12:15 KwarK wrote: Marines just produce faster than the stuff the other races have to macro. Protoss units take time to build and zerg macro is very forgiving due to the larva system. Barracks are tricky to use and non Flash progamers generally have bad macro TvZ. So no advice. I'd disagree with that, pretty much all pros have good macro. And you don't have to be flash to have a good tvz macro, even though his is considered more than just good. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On February 28 2010 15:01 GreEny K wrote: I'd disagree with that, pretty much all pros have good macro. And you don't have to be flash to have a good tvz macro, even though his is considered more than just good. this is false. the list of pro Terrans that can properly macro an SK style build is very small. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On February 28 2010 15:15 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: this is false. the list of pro Terrans that can properly macro an SK style build is very small. Wanna fight about it  | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
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doktorLucifer
United States855 Posts
Expoing seems to be a decent choice as long as you're pressuring the zerg/pushing his multitask to the limits as it is. | ||
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2minutevictory
United States89 Posts
On February 28 2010 15:22 konadora wrote: I can only think of Flash right now who can keep his mineral count below 600 while going SK Terran. Sea.Really | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
Puma has the mechanical ability, but will lose to better zergs through inferior decision-making and micro, so he's hardly relevant. | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On February 28 2010 16:13 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Really's SK is lacking. The Terrans who can consistently macro an SK build are Flash, Sea[Shield], Hwasin, and Canata on a good day (which are few and far between) Puma has the mechanical ability, but will lose to better zergs through inferior decision-making and micro, so he's hardly relevant. and KawaiiRice! ;p | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
Don't be afraid to queue up to 2-3 infantry, that way you only have to go back to add everything (vessel, tank, 2-3 inf. units), instead of having to go back for infantry separately from the bigger units. | ||
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3024 Posts
On February 28 2010 12:05 Not_Computer wrote: The only solution, aside from improving your macro since that takes time and practice, is to queue. One thing that differs from P/T and Z is that P/T can queue. While most P/T players would argue that Z has an enormous macro advantage from being able to have 3 larva waiting while they're not macroing, P/T should use their ability to queue units. Sure it seems like a "noobie" thing to do having your queue filled to 5, but even pros do that in late game and endgame. If you are about to make an attack, queue it up. If you're going to expand, queue it up. If you see him about to attack, queue it up. If you are supply blocked or maxed and have nothing else to spend it on, queue it up. Yup, I think this is basically my problem. I don't queue too much, I just watch my mineral count, which works fine in other matchups but late TvZ micro is too intensive, especially vs defiler... I like your method, I'm gonna try it. I'm also gonna try putting the rally points a little more far apart so that units are already evenly divided by the time I have to use them. I gotta grab some nada or sea or flash fpvods, maybe I can find something else in there too. BTW another issue is vessel micro. Is it just really hard to irradiate with 6+ vessels or is there something I'm missing? I have to take a long time to find the vessel that has 75 energy... god forbid I get attacked while I'm at it, my stuff will just die. PS. thanks for the help! | ||
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GeneralStan
United States4789 Posts
On February 28 2010 20:32 LG)Sabbath wrote: BTW another issue is vessel micro. Is it just really hard to irradiate with 6+ vessels or is there something I'm missing? I have to take a long time to find the vessel that has 75 energy... god forbid I get attacked while I'm at it, my stuff will just die. Select ALL the vessels with your force and tell them to irradiate, while you're outside of irradiate range. Then they will start to fly towards the target,a nd you can shift deselect one of them | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On February 28 2010 20:32 LG)Sabbath wrote: BTW another issue is vessel micro. Is it just really hard to irradiate with 6+ vessels or is there something I'm missing? I have to take a long time to find the vessel that has 75 energy... god forbid I get attacked while I'm at it, my stuff will just die. PS. thanks for the help! Even Flash struggles to micro vessels perfectly. Try to scan the area you're moving to in advance, as the current trend has Zerg units hanging out with defilers at crucial map locations. From there you can just clone the vessels. In actual battles, it's just reaction time & micro. Remember it's far more important to save your marine force than to irradiate a bunch of lurkers, but irradiating defilers is top priority, cuz you can definitely make more marines  | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3024 Posts
On March 01 2010 09:28 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Even Flash struggles to micro vessels perfectly. Try to scan the area you're moving to in advance, as the current trend has Zerg units hanging out with defilers at crucial map locations. From there you can just clone the vessels. In actual battles, it's just reaction time & micro. Remember it's far more important to save your marine force than to irradiate a bunch of lurkers, but irradiating defilers is top priority, cuz you can definitely make more marines Yeah I was talking about using irradiate while in battle. Like, zerg moving in, you have to irradiate his defilers while dodging hydra/scourge and not letting your army die horribly. | ||
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YPang
United States4024 Posts
but yes TvZ is all mechanics, i doubt there's any good trick except knowing when to stop microing and macro, often times players get carried awayy with microing the battle and forget to macro and just watch the battle which is completely useless. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17732 Posts
On February 28 2010 16:13 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Really's SK is lacking. The Terrans who can consistently macro an SK build are Flash, Sea[Shield], Hwasin, and Canata on a good day (which are few and far between) Puma has the mechanical ability, but will lose to better zergs through inferior decision-making and micro, so he's hardly relevant. would think ruby is up there too | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
It's just that he likes to smash into fights with abandon, and even though it's scary because of his strong macro and love for big lategame fights, his tendency to just hurl his forces makes him lose games. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17732 Posts
 Wtf killing zerg's 3rd gas and then attacking lurkers with only rines losing them all and getting swarmed at your nat. | ||
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