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Apparently I have bad macro

Blogs > LG)Sabbath
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1 2 Next All
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-28 02:47:34
February 28 2010 02:45 GMT
#1
People have told me this over and over and I still don't see it myself. I think it's not that I have bad macro, just that my macro is worse than my other stuff.

In any case, late game TvZ seems the hardest to macro on. How can you macro out of 10+ buildings while ultra+defiler are running around and you have to control 5 groups of units? I always stack up 2000+ minerals late game TvZ, but not TvP or TvT. Any tips?

Actually I think a reason for this is how long it takes me to set up the hotkeys for new units in late game TvZ... marines are hard to click and you have to split them from medics, meanwhile $$$ piling up.

*
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
Not_Computer
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada2277 Posts
February 28 2010 03:05 GMT
#2
From your post I'm assuming you're playing TvZ with bio. Then yes, it is difficult to macro because if you are playing mech and your resources stack up, you can still deplete them relatively quickly due to the higher cost per unit, while marine and medics only use up 1/4th of those 2000 minerals from 10 barracks.

The only solution, aside from improving your macro since that takes time and practice, is to queue. One thing that differs from P/T and Z is that P/T can queue. While most P/T players would argue that Z has an enormous macro advantage from being able to have 3 larva waiting while they're not macroing, P/T should use their ability to queue units.

Sure it seems like a "noobie" thing to do having your queue filled to 5, but even pros do that in late game and endgame. If you are about to make an attack, queue it up. If you're going to expand, queue it up. If you see him about to attack, queue it up. If you are supply blocked or maxed and have nothing else to spend it on, queue it up.

But yes, it's really difficult for a player of lower apm or inefficient apm to distribute it proportionally among micro and macro. I can definitely say that my apm distribution is always lopsided. It's just experience and perhaps someone to tutor, practice, or just give general feedback to you.

It's really useful to watch a replay together with a friend and have him point out when you should have been doing what. Or as other (aka, most) strategy threads, watching the replay of your failed games is the most efficient way to improve. Yes it's painful, but you might find out things like whenever zerg players move out with ultraling+swarm they're prone to single-dropship drops, etc.

Also, playing aggressively can help; if you're successful and put pressure on your opponent and make him defensive, it will buy you time to expand and macro.
"Jaedong hyung better be ready. I'm going to order the most expensive dinner in Korea."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42605 Posts
February 28 2010 03:15 GMT
#3
Marines just produce faster than the stuff the other races have to macro. Protoss units take time to build and zerg macro is very forgiving due to the larva system. Barracks are tricky to use and non Flash progamers generally have bad macro TvZ. So no advice.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66158 Posts
February 28 2010 03:27 GMT
#4
it's fine to have up to 1k minerals in late game bio TvZ, even if you're running on 8-12 rax.

With that extra money though, I'll like to start another ninja expo and use that money to get factories/rax/bunkers/depots/turrets at that new expansion. That'll help to not only keep your resources low, but provides a good, safe insurance of having an expo.
POGGERS
Impervious
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada4199 Posts
February 28 2010 04:36 GMT
#5
If you think you have bad macro..... I have worse.....
~ \(ˌ)im-ˈpər-vē-əs\ : not capable of being damaged or harmed.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
February 28 2010 04:52 GMT
#6
you over-micro. try to be minimalistic in your actions.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
February 28 2010 06:01 GMT
#7
On February 28 2010 12:15 KwarK wrote:
Marines just produce faster than the stuff the other races have to macro. Protoss units take time to build and zerg macro is very forgiving due to the larva system. Barracks are tricky to use and non Flash progamers generally have bad macro TvZ. So no advice.


I'd disagree with that, pretty much all pros have good macro. And you don't have to be flash to have a good tvz macro, even though his is considered more than just good.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
February 28 2010 06:15 GMT
#8
On February 28 2010 15:01 GreEny K wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 12:15 KwarK wrote:
Marines just produce faster than the stuff the other races have to macro. Protoss units take time to build and zerg macro is very forgiving due to the larva system. Barracks are tricky to use and non Flash progamers generally have bad macro TvZ. So no advice.


I'd disagree with that, pretty much all pros have good macro. And you don't have to be flash to have a good tvz macro, even though his is considered more than just good.


this is false. the list of pro Terrans that can properly macro an SK style build is very small.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
February 28 2010 06:18 GMT
#9
On February 28 2010 15:15 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2010 15:01 GreEny K wrote:
On February 28 2010 12:15 KwarK wrote:
Marines just produce faster than the stuff the other races have to macro. Protoss units take time to build and zerg macro is very forgiving due to the larva system. Barracks are tricky to use and non Flash progamers generally have bad macro TvZ. So no advice.


I'd disagree with that, pretty much all pros have good macro. And you don't have to be flash to have a good tvz macro, even though his is considered more than just good.


this is false. the list of pro Terrans that can properly macro an SK style build is very small.


Wanna fight about it
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66158 Posts
February 28 2010 06:22 GMT
#10
I can only think of Flash right now who can keep his mineral count below 600 while going SK Terran.
POGGERS
doktorLucifer
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States855 Posts
February 28 2010 06:34 GMT
#11
You can use that extra minerals for more tech. Like vults+tanks, or even BC's.

Expoing seems to be a decent choice as long as you're pressuring the zerg/pushing his multitask to the limits as it is.
2minutevictory
Profile Joined December 2009
United States89 Posts
February 28 2010 06:55 GMT
#12
On February 28 2010 15:22 konadora wrote:
I can only think of Flash right now who can keep his mineral count below 600 while going SK Terran.


Sea.Really
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-28 07:14:23
February 28 2010 07:13 GMT
#13
Really's SK is lacking. The Terrans who can consistently macro an SK build are Flash, Sea[Shield], Hwasin, and Canata on a good day (which are few and far between)

Puma has the mechanical ability, but will lose to better zergs through inferior decision-making and micro, so he's hardly relevant.
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
February 28 2010 07:47 GMT
#14
You can always go BCs late game, they will reduce mineral/gas count
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
February 28 2010 08:28 GMT
#15
On February 28 2010 16:13 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
Really's SK is lacking. The Terrans who can consistently macro an SK build are Flash, Sea[Shield], Hwasin, and Canata on a good day (which are few and far between)

Puma has the mechanical ability, but will lose to better zergs through inferior decision-making and micro, so he's hardly relevant.


and KawaiiRice! ;p
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
February 28 2010 08:53 GMT
#16
I'm gonna have to agree with most of the other posters:

Don't be afraid to queue up to 2-3 infantry, that way you only have to go back to add everything (vessel, tank, 2-3 inf. units), instead of having to go back for infantry separately from the bigger units.
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-28 11:34:22
February 28 2010 11:32 GMT
#17
On February 28 2010 12:05 Not_Computer wrote:
The only solution, aside from improving your macro since that takes time and practice, is to queue. One thing that differs from P/T and Z is that P/T can queue. While most P/T players would argue that Z has an enormous macro advantage from being able to have 3 larva waiting while they're not macroing, P/T should use their ability to queue units.

Sure it seems like a "noobie" thing to do having your queue filled to 5, but even pros do that in late game and endgame. If you are about to make an attack, queue it up. If you're going to expand, queue it up. If you see him about to attack, queue it up. If you are supply blocked or maxed and have nothing else to spend it on, queue it up.

Yup, I think this is basically my problem. I don't queue too much, I just watch my mineral count, which works fine in other matchups but late TvZ micro is too intensive, especially vs defiler... I like your method, I'm gonna try it.

I'm also gonna try putting the rally points a little more far apart so that units are already evenly divided by the time I have to use them.

I gotta grab some nada or sea or flash fpvods, maybe I can find something else in there too.

BTW another issue is vessel micro. Is it just really hard to irradiate with 6+ vessels or is there something I'm missing? I have to take a long time to find the vessel that has 75 energy... god forbid I get attacked while I'm at it, my stuff will just die.

PS. thanks for the help!
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
GeneralStan
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States4789 Posts
February 28 2010 23:53 GMT
#18
On February 28 2010 20:32 LG)Sabbath wrote:
BTW another issue is vessel micro. Is it just really hard to irradiate with 6+ vessels or is there something I'm missing? I have to take a long time to find the vessel that has 75 energy... god forbid I get attacked while I'm at it, my stuff will just die.



Select ALL the vessels with your force and tell them to irradiate, while you're outside of irradiate range. Then they will start to fly towards the target,a nd you can shift deselect one of them
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
March 01 2010 00:28 GMT
#19
On February 28 2010 20:32 LG)Sabbath wrote:
BTW another issue is vessel micro. Is it just really hard to irradiate with 6+ vessels or is there something I'm missing? I have to take a long time to find the vessel that has 75 energy... god forbid I get attacked while I'm at it, my stuff will just die.

PS. thanks for the help!


Even Flash struggles to micro vessels perfectly. Try to scan the area you're moving to in advance, as the current trend has Zerg units hanging out with defilers at crucial map locations. From there you can just clone the vessels. In actual battles, it's just reaction time & micro. Remember it's far more important to save your marine force than to irradiate a bunch of lurkers, but irradiating defilers is top priority, cuz you can definitely make more marines
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
March 01 2010 00:33 GMT
#20
remember that when people talk about your macro, it might not be only production, but keeping worker production up and expoing at the right times - if you dont keep up with those two tasks, then you'll have a lot less units than you should as time goes on
posting on liquid sites in current year
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