• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:40
CET 13:40
KST 21:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April WardiTV Team League Season 10
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea How much money terran looses from gas steal? mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group B 2026 Changsha Offline Cup
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Cricket [SPORT] 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1421 users

Most efficient progamers?

Blogs > Catch]22
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 20:19 GMT
#1
I was thinking alot today about how different progamers have different styles, on how some rely a bit more on incredible mechanics, some on innovative builds, some on cheese etc...

I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge on which progamers were the most "efficient" at playing, and by this I mean, who did the most with the least APM, I'm a firm believer that APM doesnt equal skill linearly, but something makes certain progamers able to compete with less APM than others, if so, do you know who these are? I remember hearing alot about how Savior had unusually low APM, its this I mean, Savior managed to do everything he had to do with remarkably (or compared to the others at least) few actions per minute.

So who are the players right now who manage to play really good with low APMs? Which players have really high APM?
Do you guys know?

*
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
February 20 2010 20:23 GMT
#2
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 20:32 GMT
#3
I would really never imagine that Fantasy has comparatively low APM, especially how you often hear on the strategyforums that the strategies he employs, such as the Iloveoov Build (TvP) and doing Fake Mech etc are much more mechanically demanding (=moar APM) than the "regular" styles that you may learn from Flash.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
February 20 2010 20:32 GMT
#4
Nal_ra
And all is illuminated.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
February 20 2010 20:33 GMT
#5
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

Definitely Stork, Flash and Fantasy. Movie does not belong in that group, simply because he's not at their level, so his lower apm might actually be hurting him.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17733 Posts
February 20 2010 20:36 GMT
#6
sea
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
February 20 2010 20:39 GMT
#7
On February 21 2010 05:36 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
sea


Wow I never saw his apm due to him never going deep in the OSL, but I just checked his reps and 280-320 apm is pretty sick for him, although he is basically a Flash with unrefined builds/game sense.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
February 20 2010 20:40 GMT
#8
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

I think these are even a bit high. My bwchart averages for saved reps:

Stork: 245
Fantasy: 255
Flash: 295

compared to

Idra: 319
Bisu: 360
Jaedong: 391
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
February 20 2010 20:42 GMT
#9
Stork, Flash, and Fantasy come to mind immediately, as mentioned before.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
February 20 2010 20:44 GMT
#10
Heaven[30D.O.M] imo
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
February 20 2010 20:45 GMT
#11
cgrinker: 23


That's pretty efficient.
Hyperionnn
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Turkey4968 Posts
February 20 2010 20:45 GMT
#12
On February 21 2010 05:44 Mindcrime wrote:
Heaven[30D.O.M] imo


500 apm T lol
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
February 20 2010 20:46 GMT
#13
On February 21 2010 05:40 3clipse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

I think these are even a bit high. My bwchart averages for saved reps:

Stork: 245
Fantasy: 255
Flash: 295

compared to

Idra: 319
Bisu: 360
Jaedong: 391


The thing is with replays, if you actually have a replay they are probably arent even playing their best in that game since PL/OSL/MSL games are not released and all you have is leaked practice games + foreign tourneys. Stork plays really low apm in foreign tourneys because he doesnt really care too much, and I would assume their apms are much higher in OSL matches where their career is dependant on it. Someone has to check some of the post osl records I guess.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 20:46 GMT
#14
How much of this is really EAPM? I never do anything that... doesnt actually DO anything in my game, except warming up with 1212121212 in the beginning, and going F2F3F2F3 a few times to make sure my locations are working (same with comsats)
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17733 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 20:51:01
February 20 2010 20:49 GMT
#15
forget eapm. Eapm is really flawed

Also i dont know if its the same as efficient but sea and bisu are known to be one of the cleanest pros mechanically. For efficient ill probably have to say oov and savior.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
dcberkeley
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada844 Posts
February 20 2010 20:54 GMT
#16
by.hero is the least efficient for sure.
Moktira is da bomb
The6357
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States1268 Posts
February 20 2010 20:56 GMT
#17
jaedong..391 apm?
wtf..-_-; his fingers must be really good on bojis...
2010 worldcup!! corea fighting!!!
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
February 20 2010 20:58 GMT
#18
Stork, Movie, Best and Fantasy are all sub 250. I've seen replays where Best and Movie go well below 200 late game.

Theres nothing special about these players, they spam less and probably have slightly weaker 1a2a3a4a5a and muscle reaction, but it doesn't matter too much.

Obviously Really is the main incredibly fast high level pro right now.

Most zergs are pushing 350 as well. Kwanro, hero, Jaedong, Luxury. Even amateurs like Terror had over 350.

Don't see what this thread is really meant to prove though, I have faster hands than Flash, but who'd win......
My. Copy. Is. Here.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
February 20 2010 21:04 GMT
#19
On February 21 2010 05:58 Piy wrote:
Stork, Movie, Best and Fantasy are all sub 250. I've seen replays where Best and Movie go well below 200 late game.

Theres nothing special about these players, they spam less and probably have slightly weaker 1a2a3a4a5a and muscle reaction, but it doesn't matter too much.

Obviously Really is the main incredibly fast high level pro right now.

Most zergs are pushing 350 as well. Kwanro, hero, Jaedong, Luxury. Even amateurs like Terror had over 350.

Don't see what this thread is really meant to prove though, I have faster hands than Flash, but who'd win......

no
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
February 20 2010 21:08 GMT
#20
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

Judging by OSL finals games, Movie is closer to 230 apm.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
12:00
King of the Hill #242
Liquipedia
WardiTV Team League
12:00
Group A
BASILISK vs Team Liquid
WardiTV434
TKL 139
3DClanTV 35
Liquipedia
KCM Race Survival
10:00
Grand Final
Protoss vs Terran
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 2486
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 139
ProTech137
SortOf 127
Rex 82
IndyStarCraft 79
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 2937
Bisu 1792
BeSt 1259
Mini 1012
Snow 431
Light 420
firebathero 385
EffOrt 380
Rush 178
Last 174
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 136
Larva 126
Backho 113
ggaemo 113
Soma 96
Pusan 79
ZerO 71
Sea.KH 58
Sharp 55
ToSsGirL 51
hero 41
sSak 35
Hm[arnc] 34
sorry 32
Bale 32
Shine 28
Barracks 27
[sc1f]eonzerg 25
Free 25
Shinee 24
Icarus 17
GoRush 15
Nal_rA 15
soO 12
zelot 11
SilentControl 10
Terrorterran 9
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma345
XcaliburYe206
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1338
kennyS929
x6flipin425
edward106
markeloff96
Other Games
singsing1956
Liquid`RaSZi795
Lowko250
crisheroes248
hiko220
Fuzer 173
Livibee112
Sick111
Mew2King96
Hui .63
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH334
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade533
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 20m
Replay Cast
11h 20m
WardiTV Team League
23h 20m
Big Brain Bouts
1d 4h
Fjant vs SortOf
YoungYakov vs Krystianer
Reynor vs HeRoMaRinE
RSL Revival
1d 21h
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
1d 23h
Platinum Heroes Events
2 days
BSL
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-25
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.