• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:45
CEST 18:45
KST 01:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Path of Exile OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1801 users

Most efficient progamers?

Blogs > Catch]22
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 20:19 GMT
#1
I was thinking alot today about how different progamers have different styles, on how some rely a bit more on incredible mechanics, some on innovative builds, some on cheese etc...

I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge on which progamers were the most "efficient" at playing, and by this I mean, who did the most with the least APM, I'm a firm believer that APM doesnt equal skill linearly, but something makes certain progamers able to compete with less APM than others, if so, do you know who these are? I remember hearing alot about how Savior had unusually low APM, its this I mean, Savior managed to do everything he had to do with remarkably (or compared to the others at least) few actions per minute.

So who are the players right now who manage to play really good with low APMs? Which players have really high APM?
Do you guys know?

*
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
February 20 2010 20:23 GMT
#2
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 20:32 GMT
#3
I would really never imagine that Fantasy has comparatively low APM, especially how you often hear on the strategyforums that the strategies he employs, such as the Iloveoov Build (TvP) and doing Fake Mech etc are much more mechanically demanding (=moar APM) than the "regular" styles that you may learn from Flash.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
February 20 2010 20:32 GMT
#4
Nal_ra
And all is illuminated.
Sadistx
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
February 20 2010 20:33 GMT
#5
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

Definitely Stork, Flash and Fantasy. Movie does not belong in that group, simply because he's not at their level, so his lower apm might actually be hurting him.
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17741 Posts
February 20 2010 20:36 GMT
#6
sea
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
February 20 2010 20:39 GMT
#7
On February 21 2010 05:36 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
sea


Wow I never saw his apm due to him never going deep in the OSL, but I just checked his reps and 280-320 apm is pretty sick for him, although he is basically a Flash with unrefined builds/game sense.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
February 20 2010 20:40 GMT
#8
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

I think these are even a bit high. My bwchart averages for saved reps:

Stork: 245
Fantasy: 255
Flash: 295

compared to

Idra: 319
Bisu: 360
Jaedong: 391
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
February 20 2010 20:42 GMT
#9
Stork, Flash, and Fantasy come to mind immediately, as mentioned before.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
February 20 2010 20:44 GMT
#10
Heaven[30D.O.M] imo
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
February 20 2010 20:45 GMT
#11
cgrinker: 23


That's pretty efficient.
Hyperionnn
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Turkey4968 Posts
February 20 2010 20:45 GMT
#12
On February 21 2010 05:44 Mindcrime wrote:
Heaven[30D.O.M] imo


500 apm T lol
samachking
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Bahrain4949 Posts
February 20 2010 20:46 GMT
#13
On February 21 2010 05:40 3clipse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

I think these are even a bit high. My bwchart averages for saved reps:

Stork: 245
Fantasy: 255
Flash: 295

compared to

Idra: 319
Bisu: 360
Jaedong: 391


The thing is with replays, if you actually have a replay they are probably arent even playing their best in that game since PL/OSL/MSL games are not released and all you have is leaked practice games + foreign tourneys. Stork plays really low apm in foreign tourneys because he doesnt really care too much, and I would assume their apms are much higher in OSL matches where their career is dependant on it. Someone has to check some of the post osl records I guess.
"And then Earthlings discovered tools. Suddenly agreeing with friends could be a form of suicide or worse. But agreements went on, not for the sake of common sense, or decency, or self preservation, but for friendliness."
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 20:46 GMT
#14
How much of this is really EAPM? I never do anything that... doesnt actually DO anything in my game, except warming up with 1212121212 in the beginning, and going F2F3F2F3 a few times to make sure my locations are working (same with comsats)
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17741 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 20:51:01
February 20 2010 20:49 GMT
#15
forget eapm. Eapm is really flawed

Also i dont know if its the same as efficient but sea and bisu are known to be one of the cleanest pros mechanically. For efficient ill probably have to say oov and savior.
ils
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
dcberkeley
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada844 Posts
February 20 2010 20:54 GMT
#16
by.hero is the least efficient for sure.
Moktira is da bomb
The6357
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States1268 Posts
February 20 2010 20:56 GMT
#17
jaedong..391 apm?
wtf..-_-; his fingers must be really good on bojis...
2010 worldcup!! corea fighting!!!
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
February 20 2010 20:58 GMT
#18
Stork, Movie, Best and Fantasy are all sub 250. I've seen replays where Best and Movie go well below 200 late game.

Theres nothing special about these players, they spam less and probably have slightly weaker 1a2a3a4a5a and muscle reaction, but it doesn't matter too much.

Obviously Really is the main incredibly fast high level pro right now.

Most zergs are pushing 350 as well. Kwanro, hero, Jaedong, Luxury. Even amateurs like Terror had over 350.

Don't see what this thread is really meant to prove though, I have faster hands than Flash, but who'd win......
My. Copy. Is. Here.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
February 20 2010 21:04 GMT
#19
On February 21 2010 05:58 Piy wrote:
Stork, Movie, Best and Fantasy are all sub 250. I've seen replays where Best and Movie go well below 200 late game.

Theres nothing special about these players, they spam less and probably have slightly weaker 1a2a3a4a5a and muscle reaction, but it doesn't matter too much.

Obviously Really is the main incredibly fast high level pro right now.

Most zergs are pushing 350 as well. Kwanro, hero, Jaedong, Luxury. Even amateurs like Terror had over 350.

Don't see what this thread is really meant to prove though, I have faster hands than Flash, but who'd win......

no
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
February 20 2010 21:08 GMT
#20
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM

Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes

Judging by OSL finals games, Movie is closer to 230 apm.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Last Chance Qualifier
uThermal655
RotterdaM487
SteadfastSC101
Liquipedia
SC Evo League
13:00
StarCraft Evolution League #22
EnkiAlexander 60
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 655
RotterdaM 487
SteadfastSC 101
BRAT_OK 36
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39209
Calm 6689
Horang2 1113
Mini 657
firebathero 403
ggaemo 220
Dewaltoss 104
Backho 58
Hyun 32
HiyA 32
[ Show more ]
Rock 32
Aegong 27
yabsab 25
scan(afreeca) 18
GoRush 13
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
Gorgc5584
monkeys_forever240
Counter-Strike
fl0m2283
Fnx 1915
kRYSTAL_31
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor371
Other Games
singsing2214
FrodaN1669
B2W.Neo872
Grubby633
Beastyqt576
DeMusliM499
Hui .287
mouzStarbuck277
KnowMe124
Livibee89
BananaSlamJamma80
UpATreeSC24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick10015
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 446
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 23
• Adnapsc2 16
• iHatsuTV 12
• OhrlRock 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach36
• Michael_bg 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3436
• Jankos1790
• TFBlade575
Other Games
• WagamamaTV376
• Shiphtur270
Upcoming Events
BSL
2h 15m
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
7h 15m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 15m
RSL Revival
17h 15m
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
19h 15m
ByuN vs Rogue
Solar vs Ryung
Zoun vs Percival
Cure vs SHIN
BSL
1d 2h
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
1d 15h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 17h
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
1d 19h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 23h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.