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I was thinking alot today about how different progamers have different styles, on how some rely a bit more on incredible mechanics, some on innovative builds, some on cheese etc...
I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge on which progamers were the most "efficient" at playing, and by this I mean, who did the most with the least APM, I'm a firm believer that APM doesnt equal skill linearly, but something makes certain progamers able to compete with less APM than others, if so, do you know who these are? I remember hearing alot about how Savior had unusually low APM, its this I mean, Savior managed to do everything he had to do with remarkably (or compared to the others at least) few actions per minute.
So who are the players right now who manage to play really good with low APMs? Which players have really high APM?
Do you guys know?
 
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Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM
Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes
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I would really never imagine that Fantasy has comparatively low APM, especially how you often hear on the strategyforums that the strategies he employs, such as the Iloveoov Build (TvP) and doing Fake Mech etc are much more mechanically demanding (=moar APM) than the "regular" styles that you may learn from Flash.
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On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM
Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes
Definitely Stork, Flash and Fantasy. Movie does not belong in that group, simply because he's not at their level, so his lower apm might actually be hurting him.
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On February 21 2010 05:36 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
sea
Wow I never saw his apm due to him never going deep in the OSL, but I just checked his reps and 280-320 apm is pretty sick for him, although he is basically a Flash with unrefined builds/game sense.
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On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM
Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes
I think these are even a bit high. My bwchart averages for saved reps:
Stork: 245
Fantasy: 255
Flash: 295
compared to
Idra: 319
Bisu: 360
Jaedong: 391
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Stork, Flash, and Fantasy come to mind immediately, as mentioned before.
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United States3824 Posts
cgrinker: 23
That's pretty efficient.
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On February 21 2010 05:44 Mindcrime wrote:
Heaven[30D.O.M] imo
500 apm T lol
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On February 21 2010 05:40 3clipse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM
Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes I think these are even a bit high. My bwchart averages for saved reps: Stork: 245 Fantasy: 255 Flash: 295 compared to Idra: 319 Bisu: 360 Jaedong: 391
The thing is with replays, if you actually have a replay they are probably arent even playing their best in that game since PL/OSL/MSL games are not released and all you have is leaked practice games + foreign tourneys. Stork plays really low apm in foreign tourneys because he doesnt really care too much, and I would assume their apms are much higher in OSL matches where their career is dependant on it. Someone has to check some of the post osl records I guess.
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How much of this is really EAPM? I never do anything that... doesnt actually DO anything in my game, except warming up with 1212121212 in the beginning, and going F2F3F2F3 a few times to make sure my locations are working (same with comsats)
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forget eapm. Eapm is really flawed
Also i dont know if its the same as efficient but sea and bisu are known to be one of the cleanest pros mechanically. For efficient ill probably have to say oov and savior.
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by.hero is the least efficient for sure.
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jaedong..391 apm?
wtf..-_-; his fingers must be really good on bojis...
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Stork, Movie, Best and Fantasy are all sub 250. I've seen replays where Best and Movie go well below 200 late game.
Theres nothing special about these players, they spam less and probably have slightly weaker 1a2a3a4a5a and muscle reaction, but it doesn't matter too much.
Obviously Really is the main incredibly fast high level pro right now.
Most zergs are pushing 350 as well. Kwanro, hero, Jaedong, Luxury. Even amateurs like Terror had over 350.
Don't see what this thread is really meant to prove though, I have faster hands than Flash, but who'd win......
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On February 21 2010 05:58 Piy wrote:
Stork, Movie, Best and Fantasy are all sub 250. I've seen replays where Best and Movie go well below 200 late game.
Theres nothing special about these players, they spam less and probably have slightly weaker 1a2a3a4a5a and muscle reaction, but it doesn't matter too much.
Obviously Really is the main incredibly fast high level pro right now.
Most zergs are pushing 350 as well. Kwanro, hero, Jaedong, Luxury. Even amateurs like Terror had over 350.
Don't see what this thread is really meant to prove though, I have faster hands than Flash, but who'd win......
no
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On February 21 2010 05:23 samachking wrote:
Movie 240-270 APM
Stork 260-320 APM
Fantasy 280-320 APM
Flash 280-320 APM
Flash and Fantasy are definetly the most efficient, especially judging by their styles, you'd never think that Fantasy is a low APM player(terran wise). And ofc Oov/Savior back in their primes
Judging by OSL finals games, Movie is closer to 230 apm.
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i wonder if thats one of the main things cj coaches look for in new players. Like really strong decision making, creative and efficient players. Besides effort it just seems a lot of cj players are slower then most like iris, savior, bbyong, movie
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My gut reaction is iloveoov, but is the OP asking about current players or not? Oov dominated TvZ (arguably the most mechanically demanding matchup) for an entire year without losing a single game. He also has the most championships of a 'low APM' player, and has changed the metagame of StarCraft on multiple occasions.
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If you've seen Jaedong's FPVODs you have to count him definitely too.
He almost never spams, yet gets his APM to ~ 350.
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^ yeah just because someone is slow doesnt mean their efficient and just because they're fast doesnt mean they spam
I remember talking with ver about this about what it means to be efficient. Like ver and me have the same apm range yet what we do with our apm is so different. While im basically 1a2a3a and cycling my key constactly hes macroing, expanding with his.
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On February 21 2010 06:52 KP_CollectoR wrote:
My gut reaction is iloveoov, but is the OP asking about current players or not? Oov dominated TvZ (arguably the most mechanically demanding matchup) for an entire year without losing a single game. He also has the most championships of a 'low APM' player, and has changed the metagame of StarCraft on multiple occasions.
Indeed, Iloveoov didn't rely much on mechanics, would miss occational depots etc, but had such an amazing game sense that made up for this.
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Grubby - 180apm (you didn't mention they had to be SC pros).
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I judge efficiency on how consistent they are with production of units, therefore Flash has to be the most efficent. I've seen games of his where he's attacking, defending, and yet his CCs and factories go on producing units as usual.
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Baa?21242 Posts
Savior's APM is like 10.
OK more like 200 but still.
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Past players with "low" APM (relative to other players in similar/lower skill group):
Grrrr (maybe too old)
nalra
iloveoov
savior
Currently, movie probably has one of the lowest apms among players his level (<250 iirc from OSL finals). Flash probably has the lowest apm among the S class (not sure about stork).
Kwark has crazy low APM for someone his level; tt1 not as low, but still fairly slow comparatively.
edit:
I guess the point is that high APM is not a necessity, but it definitely helps once you are up there. Someone once made an analogy between APM in SC and height in basketball that I thought was very fitting.
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You can debate how good he is, but I had heard Upmagic averages about 210.
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how old are the flash replays those apms are from? i know he used to be slower but i think he tends to be up towards 350 now. him and jaedong also have the highest eapms ive seen by 10+
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should be almost a year ago
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What are you guys talking about with Flash being slow? 99% sure he's always been known to be one of the fastest along with Jaedong, able to average 400 in multiple games.
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show me games where he averages 400
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On February 24 2010 10:25 Pokebunny wrote:
What are you guys talking about with Flash being slow? 99% sure he's always been known to be one of the fastest along with Jaedong, able to average 400 in multiple games.
Well, if you download the Pro-replay leak, from a few of the replays I observed (note: I didn't check his APM too often), his APM was more around the 320-340 marks, generally in the 330 range. Granted, they are practice games, so its not a perfect indicator, but it wasn't 400 in those.
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Stork comes to mind easily. He's always been one of the best Protoss players and currently he's playing better than Bisu. He's always lamented over the fact that Bisu is much faster than him and he said he was putting more effort into playing faster last year a while ago.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
watching stork play live is so fun
he's not very fast but plays so cleanly
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On February 24 2010 10:25 Pokebunny wrote:
What are you guys talking about with Flash being slow? 99% sure he's always been known to be one of the fastest along with Jaedong, able to average 400 in multiple games.
youre probablythinking of casy/nada that both (well nada used to his recent reps show lower) go 400+ every game..
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EPT
