• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:22
CEST 02:22
KST 09:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence5Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups3WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Playing StarCraft as 2 people on the same network
Tourneys
[IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1471 users

Most efficient progamers? - Page 2

Blogs > Catch]22
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
February 20 2010 21:21 GMT
#21
i wonder if thats one of the main things cj coaches look for in new players. Like really strong decision making, creative and efficient players. Besides effort it just seems a lot of cj players are slower then most like iris, savior, bbyong, movie
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
February 20 2010 21:52 GMT
#22
My gut reaction is iloveoov, but is the OP asking about current players or not? Oov dominated TvZ (arguably the most mechanically demanding matchup) for an entire year without losing a single game. He also has the most championships of a 'low APM' player, and has changed the metagame of StarCraft on multiple occasions.
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
February 20 2010 21:55 GMT
#23
If you've seen Jaedong's FPVODs you have to count him definitely too.

He almost never spams, yet gets his APM to ~ 350.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-20 22:06:02
February 20 2010 22:03 GMT
#24
^ yeah just because someone is slow doesnt mean their efficient and just because they're fast doesnt mean they spam

I remember talking with ver about this about what it means to be efficient. Like ver and me have the same apm range yet what we do with our apm is so different. While im basically 1a2a3a and cycling my key constactly hes macroing, expanding with his.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Catch]22
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden2683 Posts
February 20 2010 22:03 GMT
#25
On February 21 2010 06:52 KP_CollectoR wrote:
My gut reaction is iloveoov, but is the OP asking about current players or not? Oov dominated TvZ (arguably the most mechanically demanding matchup) for an entire year without losing a single game. He also has the most championships of a 'low APM' player, and has changed the metagame of StarCraft on multiple occasions.


Indeed, Iloveoov didn't rely much on mechanics, would miss occational depots etc, but had such an amazing game sense that made up for this.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17341 Posts
February 20 2010 23:07 GMT
#26
Grubby - 180apm (you didn't mention they had to be SC pros).
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
GW.Methos
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States249 Posts
February 20 2010 23:29 GMT
#27
flash all day
i.pwn.n00bs
buickskylark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada664 Posts
February 20 2010 23:30 GMT
#28
I judge efficiency on how consistent they are with production of units, therefore Flash has to be the most efficent. I've seen games of his where he's attacking, defending, and yet his CCs and factories go on producing units as usual.
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
February 20 2010 23:38 GMT
#29
Not By.Hero hehehe.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
February 21 2010 00:20 GMT
#30
Savior's APM is like 10.

OK more like 200 but still.
TranslatorBaa!
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 03:23:06
February 21 2010 03:21 GMT
#31
Past players with "low" APM (relative to other players in similar/lower skill group):

Grrrr (maybe too old)
nalra
iloveoov
savior

Currently, movie probably has one of the lowest apms among players his level (<250 iirc from OSL finals). Flash probably has the lowest apm among the S class (not sure about stork).

Kwark has crazy low APM for someone his level; tt1 not as low, but still fairly slow comparatively.

edit:

I guess the point is that high APM is not a necessity, but it definitely helps once you are up there. Someone once made an analogy between APM in SC and height in basketball that I thought was very fitting.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
ragnasaur
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States804 Posts
February 21 2010 19:58 GMT
#32
tsunami: 70 apm
| (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) George Forman doesnt have any fingerprints
Imagist
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia484 Posts
February 23 2010 16:03 GMT
#33
You can debate how good he is, but I had heard Upmagic averages about 210.
I enjoy Starcraft when I'm not too busy being dynamic and attractive.
MonkeyMania
Profile Joined February 2010
United States3 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-23 16:44:04
February 23 2010 16:43 GMT
#34
--- Nuked ---
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
February 23 2010 16:53 GMT
#35
how old are the flash replays those apms are from? i know he used to be slower but i think he tends to be up towards 350 now. him and jaedong also have the highest eapms ive seen by 10+
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
February 24 2010 01:17 GMT
#36
should be almost a year ago
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
February 24 2010 01:25 GMT
#37
What are you guys talking about with Flash being slow? 99% sure he's always been known to be one of the fastest along with Jaedong, able to average 400 in multiple games.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17727 Posts
February 24 2010 04:21 GMT
#38
show me games where he averages 400
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18918 Posts
February 24 2010 04:32 GMT
#39
On February 24 2010 10:25 Pokebunny wrote:
What are you guys talking about with Flash being slow? 99% sure he's always been known to be one of the fastest along with Jaedong, able to average 400 in multiple games.

Well, if you download the Pro-replay leak, from a few of the replays I observed (note: I didn't check his APM too often), his APM was more around the 320-340 marks, generally in the 330 range. Granted, they are practice games, so its not a perfect indicator, but it wasn't 400 in those.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
February 24 2010 04:35 GMT
#40
Stork comes to mind easily. He's always been one of the best Protoss players and currently he's playing better than Bisu. He's always lamented over the fact that Bisu is much faster than him and he said he was putting more effort into playing faster last year a while ago.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
Mid Season Playoffs #2
CranKy Ducklings39
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 254
SpeCial 52
CosmosSc2 42
Vindicta 18
RuFF_SC2 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 773
ggaemo 83
sSak 16
Counter-Strike
fl0m1199
Stewie2K385
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0208
Other Games
summit1g4741
Grubby3399
shahzam908
JimRising 364
SortOf122
Maynarde115
Trikslyr71
Nathanias20
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick832
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta30
• OhrlRock 2
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 25
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22169
• WagamamaTV496
• Ler43
Other Games
• Scarra998
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 38m
Afreeca Starleague
9h 38m
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
2v2
10h 38m
PiGosaur Monday
23h 38m
LiuLi Cup
1d 10h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.