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edit
I understand very well reasons why this had to be done but
Since it was my translation that caused this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=111991
On February 10 2010 14:59 TL.net Bot wrote:<font size=3> Tarson Penalized For Leaking Results</font> It has come to our attention that Tarson spoiled the results of his Ro16 match with Nony by posting on a Polish forum. These posts happened immediately after his match with Nony and several hours before the TSL Ro16 Broadcast that showed his games. Tarson's Posts(Translation from Polish included): + Show Spoiler [Show Posts] +"I advise you to not watch my games." "I'm just saying do not watch those fucking games, fucked up... [more expletives, grief, regret] ... fucking starcraft. I can't believe myself what has happened" "Where did I write result ? I'm saying to not watch [those] games, that's all lol ;]" We understand the frustration and anger that comes with losing, especially in the way that Tarson lost. However, it does not excuse a player's actions. Here, the results were leaked in a Polish forum accessible by many people. While Tarson initially argued that he did not technically reveal results, what he said essentially gives away the final result of the series and encourages people not to watch. Later, Tarson admitted what he posted was incorrect, and issued an apology to us: Show nested quote +Tarson wrote:
As you probably know I kinda revealed my results vs Nony on a Polish forum. I was very frustrated after my loss but I shouldn't have said that. I want to apologize everyone for my behavior. Normally, we would simply punish the player by taking away his prize money. However, this is the first incident we've had, and taking into consideration Tarson's apology, we feel that a 50% prize reduction ($125 penalty) is more appropriate. The penalized money will be donated to a charity to be determined later. This action is not about the actual monetary amount, but more about sending a message that leaking results is a serious offense. Temporary anger or frustration after a loss does not mean a player escapes responsibility for his own choices and actions. For those that feel the penalty is still too harsh, remember that the TSL can only exist if results are not leaked by players. The players earn their prizes not only because they win, but because they generate a quality product for our advertisers. Spoiling results to anyone is one of the most damaging things a player can do to our broadcast. It greatly harms the TSL and our ability to secure sponsorship for future tournaments. Players were informed prior to the TSL that any spoilers would result in possible forfeiture of their prize money. It is unfortunate that we were forced to do this. Aside from this one incident, Tarson was an exemplary player and dealt with us very professionally. However, we will not hesitate to punish future leaks with a full revocation of prize money. Hopefully, now that this incident is resolved, we will not have to do this in the future. --TSL Staff
The way you handled this makes me think you at least have not consulted my translation with any other person with enough knowledge of Polish and English.
I strongly believe that anyone who has shown support of your decision, like for example iNc
On February 10 2010 18:09 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
YES
Bout friggin time someone started punishing for these kind of things.
"Too harsh" bullshit. This is a HUGE tourney and Tarson KNEW he wasn't supposed to do that but he let his emotions get the best of him. I'm tired of the general scbw community wanting a slap on the wrist for these kind of things.. bring the fucking hammer.
GW tl
would not know about what Tarson wrote on netwars.pl if there would be no thread about punishing Tarson.
Whatever result are, TSL games are not meant to be read about. They are meant to be watched!
Moreover I posted this after 2 games have already been played - punishing Tarson would make sense if results were leaked (long before) any games were casted.
In these circumstances it can not be understood as as leaking results but only as Tarson's resentment of the way he performed in his match as a whole.
If you believe that this translation damages your broadcast then THE VERY FIRST THING YOU SHOULD DO is to contact with me about it and/or ban me as a person responsible for bringing this to you.
Punishing Tarson wasn't my motive behind this!
This decision doesn't need to be magnified by lowering Tarson's prize.
Please revert this as he is not losing any money in this way; if you will not I will send him exact amount of money he may lose by your decision.
edit:
On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught.
I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way?
 
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Thats noble of you, but if you hadn't translated it, someone else would have. I don't think it can really be argued that this is your fault at all.
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Why would they ban you?
OP makes no sense
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He shouldn't have said anything to anyone. It has nothing to do with the translations. Word of mouth is very powerful.
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United States24637 Posts
In this event players agree ahead of time that they will keep their mouth shut until after the match.... he didn't... he revealed some pretty key information there. He doesn't have to say "I lost" to spoil it. It's possible he wouldn't have been 'caught' if not for your translation but that's irrelevant to whether or not the TSL should penalize him and his prize. If I were in your position I wouldn't send him the 125 dollars since I am not the one who violated the rules of the TSL... just possibly did something unethical.
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Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here.
Still, based on that time stamp I can't see how Tarson didn't post this before the games were over, which still constitutes a breach of (verbal, I guess) contract.
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I don't think anyone would make screenshots or even just copy paste and translate this.
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United States24637 Posts
On February 11 2010 05:30 maareek wrote:
Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here.
OP should correct me if I'm wrong... but the Tarson posts were well before the broadcast.
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I am 100% certain this would not happen if 3rd game of that set would look any different than it did
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1-31-10 16:38 (I'm assuming CET) would be right around the start of broadcast, I think. Again, not defending Tarson here, just trying to make the OP a little clearer (at least what I got from it).
Edit at below: it's a preemptive strike at the principal of the thing. No leaking means no leaking. Anywhere.
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For me 125 bucks for this is just too much, specially in aforum thats not that big and mainly didnt influence most of the people watching the TSL -_-
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On February 11 2010 05:31 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:30 maareek wrote:
Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here. OP should correct me if I'm wrong... but the Tarson posts were well before the broadcast.
Did he post this on TL? No he didn't, taking all circumstances into consideration there is no need to split his prize.
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results!
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United States24637 Posts
On February 11 2010 05:31 beetlelisk wrote:
I am 100% certain this would not happen if 3rd game of that set would look any different than it did
Irrelevant since he agreed not to do this beforehand. The conditions by which he was caught doesn't really matter since no rules/laws prevent the TSL staff from acting on the info they were provided with for punishing him. Perhaps the TSL should either make their investigation more thorough or explain what else they did besides use your translation though.
On February 11 2010 05:32 ZeroCartin wrote:
For me 125 bucks for this is just too much, specially in aforum thats not that big and mainly didnt influence most of the people watching the TSL -_-
He agreed beforehand not to do this. His prize is void. They are giving him half anyway. It's pretty generous and demonstrates that the TSL staff DOES in fact care.
On February 11 2010 05:33 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:31 micronesia wrote:On February 11 2010 05:30 maareek wrote:
Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here. OP should correct me if I'm wrong... but the Tarson posts were well before the broadcast. Did he post this on TL? No he didn't, taking all circumstances into consideration there is no need to split his prize. The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results!
The fact that he didn't post this on TL is irrelevant. As I said before he also doesn't need to say "I lost" to point out that he probably lost. He needs to keep quiet until the broadcast like everyone else or he runs the risk of exactly what happened. He got caught disseminating the information. Don't give incontrol a hard time as if he doesn't know this topic very well... he had to keep the WCG Ultimate Gamer info quiet for a while with a MUCH greater penalty at stake than this.
Edit: you are not being reasonable so I won't discuss this with you anymore. I'm sorry you feel responsible but you shouldn't and he's gonna get half his prize so this isn't horrible.
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I don't see anything wrong in showing that TSL cares. I am against making this so harsh.
I repeat:
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results
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On February 11 2010 05:33 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:31 micronesia wrote:On February 11 2010 05:30 maareek wrote:
Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here. OP should correct me if I'm wrong... but the Tarson posts were well before the broadcast. Did he post this on TL? No he didn't, taking all circumstances into consideration there is no need to split his prize. The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results!
Would he have said "I played terrible, don't bother watching" if he beat Nony? Or even had a decent series? Those comments make it blatantly obvious who won, which is just the same as saying he lost. Just like "omg, the games are freaking awesome everybody check 'em out holy shit it was amazing" would be borderline spoiling it the other way (though it'd get him huge props if he lsot and did that, he might get in trouble if he did it and won. It sounds like Tarson has already admitted the mistake and gotten over it, so it would probably be best if you let it go, as well. It's a sad situation, but the TSL admins are being lenient here, not harsh.
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On February 11 2010 05:36 beetlelisk wrote:
I don't see anything wrong in showing that TSL cares. I am against making this so harsh.
I repeat:
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results
Ok, so if I were to post after a big tournament series "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly"
You wouldn't think I lost?
Wtf don't dance around technicalities, that's stupid.
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On February 11 2010 05:36 beetlelisk wrote:
I don't see anything wrong in showing that TSL cares. I am against making this so harsh.
I repeat:
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results
He didn't leak the information but the comments he made on his performance would make it pretty obvious what the results were to anyone.
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On February 11 2010 05:38 maareek wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:33 beetlelisk wrote:On February 11 2010 05:31 micronesia wrote:On February 11 2010 05:30 maareek wrote:
Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here. OP should correct me if I'm wrong... but the Tarson posts were well before the broadcast. Did he post this on TL? No he didn't, taking all circumstances into consideration there is no need to split his prize. The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results! Would he have said "I played terrible, don't bother watching" if he beat Nony? Or even had a decent series? Those comments make it blatantly obvious who won, which is just the same as saying he lost. Just like "omg, the games are freaking awesome everybody check 'em out holy shit it was amazing" would be borderline spoiling it the other way (though it'd get him huge props if he lsot and did that, he might get in trouble if he did it and won. It sounds like Tarson has already admitted the mistake and gotten over it, so it would probably be best if you let it go, as well. It's a sad situation, but the TSL admins are being lenient here, not harsh.
You can say this after you have seen all games. There is a huge prize pool and reputation (mostly in Polish BW scene) involved in this, assuming he spoiled the results isn't fully justified.
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decision seems to be very uptight. not as bad as having the policy to disqualify ppl for saying ppp, but its just very uptight. maybe u should do something else, rather than cut half of the prize money that he worked for days to get... and managed to fuk it up by just a single post..
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Hrmm gotta keep serious face to acquire future sponsors so tl staff took excellent decision imo. I'm pretty sure all of us can relate to Tarson and the staff
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On February 11 2010 05:40 LordWeird wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:36 beetlelisk wrote:
I don't see anything wrong in showing that TSL cares. I am against making this so harsh.
I repeat:
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results Ok, so if I were to post after a big tournament series "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" You wouldn't think I lost? Wtf don't dance around technicalities, that's stupid.
His "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" can be spoiling results of the match as a whole but anyone who saw it live could say the very same thing after 1st 2 games were played. There was no groundshacking info in this.
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On February 11 2010 05:45 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Hrmm gotta keep serious face to acquire future sponsors so tl staff took excellent decision imo. I'm pretty sure all of us can relate to Tarson and the staff
There is no problem in showing care, there is a problem with penalty.
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On February 11 2010 05:46 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:40 LordWeird wrote:On February 11 2010 05:36 beetlelisk wrote:
I don't see anything wrong in showing that TSL cares. I am against making this so harsh.
I repeat:
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results Ok, so if I were to post after a big tournament series "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" You wouldn't think I lost? Wtf don't dance around technicalities, that's stupid. His "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" can be spoiling results of the match as a whole but anyone who saw it live could say the very same thing after 1st 2 games were played. There was no groundshacking info in this.
but he said it before the games were broadcasted : /
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It doesn't matter that the result was obvious. He agreed to not release the results and he did. That hurts everybody because it hurts the integrity of the TSL, which is a product paid for by a sponsor. In order to keep sponsors, you have to show that this is not tolerated, so whoever leaked the results has to be punished. Tarson did it, he admitted it, and he has been punished. TL.net should have it's possibility of acquiring sponsors intact.
If they did not penalize him, it could be seen by potential sponsors as a mark of a poorly run operation and, possibly, endanger the chance of future TSLs happening because of a lack of funding. Tarson forced their hand with this, and it's sad it happened, but this was really the nicest way, in relation to Tarson, that TL.net could legitimately handle this. If you aren't going to argue that he didn't leak them, then you have no leg to stand on here, frankly.
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Translation's good and its damn obvious that he lost the series (in both polish and english)
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On February 11 2010 05:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:46 beetlelisk wrote:On February 11 2010 05:40 LordWeird wrote:On February 11 2010 05:36 beetlelisk wrote:
I don't see anything wrong in showing that TSL cares. I am against making this so harsh.
I repeat:
The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results Ok, so if I were to post after a big tournament series "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" You wouldn't think I lost? Wtf don't dance around technicalities, that's stupid. His "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" can be spoiling results of the match as a whole but anyone who saw it live could say the very same thing after 1st 2 games were played. There was no groundshacking info in this. but he said it before the games were broadcasted : /
In this case you have no idea about things like this until someone translates it.
Can I even ask for TL staff statement about anyone posting how Tarson trashed himself on netwars.pl (I mean no direct translations)? Especially now when situation is fresh, heads red and hardly anyone else speaks Polish here?
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Telling people not to watch, and that he played bad etc. is obviously disrespectful to what TL is trying to do. Incidents like this have to be punished, and if many of them happen, there might not be another TSL. It's the issue we face since we have to do this pseudo live, but TSL has to prove that it brings in viewers to get sponsors. Discouraging viewership is just a dick move. TL gave Tarson the opportunity, and he should have been smart enough to return the favour.
Mistakes happen, and it's not so scandalous everything has been ruined, but it does need to be taken seriously.
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On February 11 2010 05:21 beetlelisk wrote:
Please revert this as he is not losing any money in this way; if you will not I will send him exact amount of money he may lose by your decision.
somehow, i doubt it... feel free to prove me wrong though
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On February 11 2010 05:52 maareek wrote:
It doesn't matter that the result was obvious. He agreed to not release the results and he did. That hurts everybody because it hurts the integrity of the TSL, which is a product paid for by a sponsor. In order to keep sponsors, you have to show that this is not tolerated, so whoever leaked the results has to be punished. Tarson did it, he admitted it, and he has been punished. TL.net should have it's possibility of acquiring sponsors intact.
If they did not penalize him, it could be seen by potential sponsors as a mark of a poorly run operation and, possibly, endanger the chance of future TSLs happening because of a lack of funding. Tarson forced their hand with this, and it's sad it happened, but this was really the nicest way, in relation to Tarson, that TL.net could legitimately handle this. If you aren't going to argue that he didn't leak them, then you have no leg to stand on here, frankly.
Once again: I am all for TSL staff noticing this and reacting to this. I am against overreacting.
Saying this was a leak is overreacting caused in my opinion by other problems and defects.
I understand that this TSL and previous one are crucial, key for good sponsoring in the future; however base of this verdict isn't strong enough, putting stress on language barriers. 90% of users that now know of this, do know of this only because it has been made official.
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Just be happy he only got 50% penalized. IMO he shouldn't get a single penny. It's an unspoken rule that since TSL is run by replays players should take up most caution when talking before their matches are broadcasted. Stop crying about TSL staff being harsh and a mistake. You're pretty arrogant to say that hardworking staff who put the whole freakin' tournament made a mistake. So shut the fuck.
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On February 11 2010 06:00 prototype. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:21 beetlelisk wrote:
Please revert this as he is not losing any money in this way; if you will not I will send him exact amount of money he may lose by your decision. somehow, i doubt it... feel free to prove me wrong though
Don't worry I will
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The punishment isn't really harsh at all. I would have expected ban from future TSLs, this is just 100 bucks =/
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Sounds like a good decision on TSL's part. Tarson knew of the agreement when he spoiled the results and should be willing to accept the consequences. Only doing 50% sounds like a generous gesture imo.
Seems like Tarson made a mistake and admits making a mistake. This wasn't TSL's mistake.
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On February 11 2010 06:06 Chef wrote:
The punishment isn't really harsh at all. I would have expected ban from future TSLs, this is just 100 bucks =/
QFT
Also,this is you claiming that the whole staff of TSL made a mistake....
You who just watch against TSL staff who donate numerous time and effort to bring this to us....
Why don't you stop overreacting and just enjoy what they provide us?
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why are people on tl so willing to give money to complete strangers?
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beetlelisk, it doesn't matter that he didn't do it here. It doesn't matter where he did it. If it was a blog with no visitors, it would still be a violation of the rules and mean he forfeits all his winnings. You aren't at fault and by translating it when you did you probably made things much better for all involved. What Tarson did broke the rules, no matter where he posted it, and as it is the TSL admins gave him the lightest penalty they could while still remaining firm on their rules.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught.
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On February 11 2010 05:57 Chef wrote:
Telling people not to watch, and that he played bad etc. is obviously disrespectful to what TL is trying to do. Incidents like this have to be punished, and if many of them happen, there might not be another TSL. It's the issue we face since we have to do this pseudo live, but TSL has to prove that it brings in viewers to get sponsors. Discouraging viewership is just a dick move. TL gave Tarson the opportunity, and he should have been smart enough to return the favour.
Mistakes happen, and it's not so scandalous everything has been ruined, but it does need to be taken seriously.
He warned his countrymen, on forums that of all things resemble fucking 4chan more than TL or maybe gosugamers.
Consider this, something I was going to post and translate in heat of donation for Polish BW players so 3 of them not 1 could go to China.
There was a whiner, guy who didn't like concept of donating at all; who wrote about this in 1 thread and then made his own.
Short translation is GTFO, GTFO fucking whore
Not a single person was banned for this.
Of all things I would rather think Tarson was scared of being bashed for his performance than spoiling any results to innocent ENGLISH SPEAKING spectators
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There is no argument here. If the player agreed to terms and conditions stating that he could not leak anything in any sort of way, and he did, then there must be a punishment. The only thing to argue is what type of punishment that may be and how severe.
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On February 11 2010 05:33 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 05:31 micronesia wrote:On February 11 2010 05:30 maareek wrote:
Based on what he's saying and the time stamp of those posts, what I'm assuming the OP is saying is that Tarson posted this while the matches were being casted. It would take a little more comparing to see just where the timing was, but I think that's what the OP is trying to get across here. OP should correct me if I'm wrong... but the Tarson posts were well before the broadcast. Did he post this on TL? No he didn't, taking all circumstances into consideration there is no need to split his prize. The thing is there was no leak at all, he commentated his performance not results!
I really don't get your point to be honest. I mean yeah, he didn't say out loud "damn I lost", but he implied him loosing in a very obvious way.
So if he wrote this on a polish website, polish SC fans still got spoiled, no?
It's not your fault at all. It's his fault, and the judgement done by the TSL staff is correct imo.
On February 11 2010 05:46 beetlelisk wrote:His "Fuck this, fuck starcraft, i can't believe this... i did so poorly" can be spoiling results of the match as a whole but anyone who saw it live could say the very same thing after 1st 2 games were played. There was no groundshacking info in this.
Actually yes there was. He basically said that he lost the games, thus spoiling the broadcast.
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South Africa4316 Posts
Beetlelisk, we found out that he had spoiled the games before you translated those posts. Your posts just translated exactly what he said. The fact that it happened on a polish site is no excuse either. There are lots of Polish fans watching the TSL, and spoiling the results for them alone is unacceptable. However, like it has already been said, word of mouth allows information like this to travel quickly, and even while the games were being played, people mentioned that Tarson said he lost on a Polish forum. As the original post says, there are few things more harmful to the TSL than results being spoiled:
For those that feel the penalty is still too harsh, remember that the TSL can only exist if results are not leaked by players. The players earn their prizes not only because they win, but because they generate a quality product for our advertisers. Spoiling results to anyone is one of the most damaging things a player can do to our broadcast. It greatly harms the TSL and our ability to secure sponsorship for future tournaments. Players were informed prior to the TSL that any spoilers would result in possible forfeiture of their prize money.
Tarson was upset and he made a bad decision which spoiled good games for many viewers. However, we appreciate all the hard work that he has put into the tournament, and also that he made an honest apology. Because of this, we have only penalized him with half his prize, a compromise which we believe is fair. If players know that they will be penalised if they leak the results, then we won't have this situation when the semi-finals or finals are played (which would be a disaster). On the other hand, Tarson is still rewarded for his hard work and for participating in the TSL. We believe that this is the most fair decision given the situation.
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Posting on a polish forum mitigates the damage of what he did, but it doesn't excuse it in anyway.
What if he had posted on an english site like gosugamers or tlnet? People would be clamoring for his head. He got off really lucky, and I think the tl staff are being very lenient.
So much work goes into TSL, and it's incredible and all he has to do is shut up for a few days
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On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught.
I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way?
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On February 11 2010 06:22 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught. I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way?
That is just damage control though. You need to get to the root of the problem, which is Tarson talking about the games on a forum when he's not supposed to.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On February 11 2010 06:22 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught. I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way?
Did you post the translation before or after the broadcast?
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If they tried to cover it up, then eventually somebody else who speaks Polish will bring it up and then everybody will be in shit. TL will be disgraced, Tarson must be perma banned and the TSL will be hard to keep going. That's not even remotely a good solution.
These kinds of things have happened before, at some point you have to stop slapping wrists and start laying down punishment. Sadly, this time it hit on Tarson, but he got off pretty easy and hopefully it sends a message that will keep this from happening again.
This wasn't an attack on Tarson personally, it was laying down the law on what will not be tolerated. No other solution makes as much sense as what the TSL admins did here.
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On February 11 2010 06:27 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 06:22 beetlelisk wrote:On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught. I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way? Did you post the translation before or after the broadcast?
After 2 games have been played and 3rd was well on the way.
If I remember correctly NonY didn't reach Tarson's ramp yet, he was about to do it.
What happened then couldn't have been foreseen in any way, could it?
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On February 11 2010 06:29 maareek wrote:
If they tried to cover it up, then eventually somebody else who speaks Polish will bring it up and then everybody will be in shit. TL will be disgraced, Tarson must be perma banned and the TSL will be hard to keep going. That's not even remotely a good solution.
These kinds of things have happened before, at some point you have to stop slapping wrists and start laying down punishment. Sadly, this time it hit on Tarson, but he got off pretty easy and hopefully it sends a message that will keep this from happening again.
This wasn't an attack on Tarson personally, it was laying down the law on what will not be tolerated. No other solution makes as much sense as what the TSL admins did here.
I don't mean pretending as if nothing happened.
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Then why would they remove your post? If they make it look like it wasn't Tarson who said something, it will lead to bad things because someone will point out that it was. If they show that it was Tarson, then they must punish him, which brings us right back to where we are now.
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why are we still having this discussion?
tarson knew the rules and didn't abide by it
he didn't even receive the full penalty
beetlelisk i know you're upset but even tarson acknowledged his mistake, so just live with it and give him the 125$ you said you would give him because you're weird like that
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On February 11 2010 06:17 Daigomi wrote:Beetlelisk, we found out that he had spoiled the games before you translated those posts. Your posts just translated exactly what he said. The fact that it happened on a polish site is no excuse either. There are lots of Polish fans watching the TSL, and spoiling the results for them alone is unacceptable. However, like it has already been said, word of mouth allows information like this to travel quickly, and even while the games were being played, people mentioned that Tarson said he lost on a Polish forum. As the original post says, there are few things more harmful to the TSL than results being spoiled: Show nested quote +For those that feel the penalty is still too harsh, remember that the TSL can only exist if results are not leaked by players. The players earn their prizes not only because they win, but because they generate a quality product for our advertisers. Spoiling results to anyone is one of the most damaging things a player can do to our broadcast. It greatly harms the TSL and our ability to secure sponsorship for future tournaments. Players were informed prior to the TSL that any spoilers would result in possible forfeiture of their prize money. Tarson was upset and he made a bad decision which spoiled good games for many viewers. However, we appreciate all the hard work that he has put into the tournament, and also that he made an honest apology. Because of this, we have only penalized him with half his prize, a compromise which we believe is fair. If players know that they will be penalised if they leak the results, then we won't have this situation when the semi-finals or finals are played (which would be a disaster). On the other hand, Tarson is still rewarded for his hard work and for participating in the TSL. We believe that this is the most fair decision given the situation.
Thank you for clearing that you knew about this before translation...
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On February 11 2010 06:29 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 06:27 Rekrul wrote:On February 11 2010 06:22 beetlelisk wrote:On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught. I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way? Did you post the translation before or after the broadcast? After 2 games have been played and 3rd was well on the way. If I remember correctly NonY didn't reach Tarson's ramp yet, he was about to do it. What happened then couldn't have been foreseen in any way, could it?
Then blame yourself and apologize to Tarson and pay him 125$ like you said. Once again, just because no harm came from his actions, doesn't mean they weren't wrong.
Please revert this as he is not losing any money in this way; if you will not I will send him exact amount of money he may lose by your decision.
Sorry buddy, but he's losing money because of his decision. And he would have gotten away with it (maybe? lol) if it weren't for your decision to translate and leak it. TL.net's decision is correct. Whether or not he should be given that 125$ penalty or not is up to individual discretion...some may feel thats not fair some feel it's totally justified. Either way what you or anyone thinks doesn't really matter as the power and integrity of this tournament lies in TL.net's hands and they are doing a damn better job than anyone else could.
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Dude you seriously need to calm down. He spoiled the results regardless of whether or not what
time it was, who was subjected to it, etc.. If tl did nothing then anybody could break the rules and there would be no control.
Did tarson like threaten you or something or so you just feel really bad or what? You just wrote the stuff out, somebody else probably would have done it if it wasn't you. He ruined some results (regardlesss of whether or not you think that's spoiling, and it is because it reveals some sort of results whether or not they were directly stated), and that's that.
TL made the right decision.
Edit: for spelling errors
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If you agree to a non-disclosure sort of agreement then it does not even matter if measurable damage has occurred or not, breach of the contract is enough to warrant a penalty.
If anything, he got off lightly. I'm sure if it happens again that player will receive a much harsher penalty.
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It's Tardson what did you expect?
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I wouldn`t treat it like a punishment ; More as a way to prevent such things from repetetion in the future, by giving out a clear message - players cannot spoil.
Price reduction by 50 %.
There is a need for being that harsh - because it makes players respect the rules and more importantly - remember about them at times of frustration and anger, like after a disheartening loss.
Tarson failed hard and it is then, at these times of frustration and anger - when players have to remember not to make it worse.
However I think that it could be lowered to 25 % . Even 50 $ won by playing starcraft is enough to have motivation to not spoil tsl and further in this tournament : 25 % is 100 $ - so I don`t see anyone ignoring it.
Price reduction by 50 % - is it necessary in this case ? The goal of motivating players to not spoil is already achieved, either 50 % or 25 % does this. So in this light, 50 % is a harshness that doesn`t serve anyone. Its not necessary for it to be 50 %.
Reverting this decision is out of question.
Modifyng it - maybe not.
Tl.net would need a solid , really [b[solid[/b] reason to change such decision. Even if it had - still it might be not enough - because reputation of tl.net matters too, if the players are to respect the rules.
This reason might be that this harshness, even though not that harsh, doesn`t serve its purpose.
The purpose of this punishment is achieved by 25 % price reduction anyways.
However, the current decision should and is appreciated , its good and fair.
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On February 11 2010 06:36 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 06:29 beetlelisk wrote:On February 11 2010 06:27 Rekrul wrote:On February 11 2010 06:22 beetlelisk wrote:On February 11 2010 06:12 Rekrul wrote:
beetlelisk:
A breach of contract is a breach of contract. It is irrelevant if what Tarson did actually caused any harm or not. It's about the implications that such behavior that could potentially damage the event. You're right, it is indeed very minor of an offense especially in this case especially how it was posted on such an obscure forum using a language hardly anybody speaks only a short time before the broadcasts. But the fact of the matter is SC tournaments / ladders have gone on far too long without any self-protection and finally TL.net is taking steps to ensure the integrity and entertainment value of it's own tournament along with setting precedent and making an example for other tournaments to come. TL.net has always been a very simple user-oriented site but with many companies like pokerstrategy willing to put up huge prizes on the horizon (sc2 etc) it's important to act more professionally and hold to the contract/rules to a T unless special circumstances arise.
I know what you're trying to argue right now is that these are special circumstances as results were pretty much not spoiled for anyone at all and he didn't say anything exactly and it was language bs blah blah. You also said TL.net is trying to find 'scapegoats.' You are completely wrong. In TL's explanation of the matter they clearly stated that they have sympathy for Tarson and realize what he did was a simple mistake in the heat of the moment. Adding to that they only removed 50% of his prize money instead of 100% which they were totally in their right to do seeing as how he was completely in breach of contract.
If you walk around town shooting a silenced gun in the air for fun with no intention of harming anyone and no one sees you you're not going to get in trouble. That doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong and that you won't be punished in the event you're caught. I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way? Did you post the translation before or after the broadcast? After 2 games have been played and 3rd was well on the way. If I remember correctly NonY didn't reach Tarson's ramp yet, he was about to do it. What happened then couldn't have been foreseen in any way, could it? Then blame yourself and apologize to Tarson and pay him 125$ like you said. Once again, just because no harm came from his actions, doesn't mean they weren't wrong. Show nested quote +Please revert this as he is not losing any money in this way; if you will not I will send him exact amount of money he may lose by your decision. Sorry buddy, but he's losing money because of his decision. And he would have gotten away with it (maybe? lol) if it weren't for your decision to translate and leak it. TL.net's decision is correct. Whether or not he should be given that 125$ penalty or not is up to individual discretion...some may feel thats not fair some feel it's totally justified. Either way what you or anyone thinks doesn't really matter as the power and integrity of this tournament lies in TL.net's hands and they are doing a damn better job than anyone else could.
I edited what I wrote about looking for scapegoats out.
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Tough for me to side with anybody but the mods here. If i am understanding correctly, the main offense here was Tarson's posting on the Polish site, not beetlelisk's translating the posts. Tarson broke the contract the second he posted on the Polish site, not when beetlelisk translated. TL very easily could have taken all 250. They didn't, they only took half and are giving that half to charity... in my opinion, if there is going to be any disagreement with this decision it should be that harsher punishment could be deserved, not lighter.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
goddamn polish bastard ._. sprzedawczyk ehhh
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How stupid can a person be?... It's tarson's problem if he isn't able to keep calm for a few days, although he knows that he will be punished if he's not capable of doing it.
What have we recognized so far? -> The TSL2 is a well-run tournament with strict rules no one should disobey. All players were informed and accepted these rules before playing...
It's the fault of the players that are not able to play fair. How can a person dare to disobey these rules even after the hard (but good) punishment which occured right after the ladderstage? How is this possible? 8[
So please get it: we, the spectators and fans, want a cheat-, abuse- and spoilerfree tournament. The TSL Team has done a great job so far and hopefully players will stop doing such shit in future.
Personally I have nothing against Tarson. Always thought that he is quite a nice guy. But for the sake of this and future tournaments punishment has to be carried out.
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On February 11 2010 07:37 Crucifix wrote:
goddamn polish bastard ._. sprzedawczyk ehhh
tl.staff says its not because of him, so they might have known anyways
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On February 11 2010 07:37 Crucifix wrote:
goddamn polish bastard ._. sprzedawczyk ehhh
gtfo dude, noone fucking cares what you think
seriously it's so fucking annoying that the whole polish scene now wants to crucify beetlelisk just because he did a stupid thing. meanwhile forgeting that it was Tarson's own fault
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
So basically you feel bad because you think you narced on Tarson.
You didn't we knew about it as soon as it happened - we had multiple polish sources translate it. This has nothing to do with you.
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A leak is a leak. Look up the meaning of word: leak. And the penalty is less harsh than expected. IMO, I think it should have been sterner but what's been decided sounds tolerable to me.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On February 11 2010 08:45 Kennigit wrote:
So basically you feel bad because you think you narced on Tarson.
You didn't we knew about it as soon as it happened - we had multiple polish sources translate it. This has nothing to do with you.
You should have let him send the 125 to tarson first!
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On February 11 2010 08:45 Kennigit wrote:
So basically you feel bad because you think you narced on Tarson.
You didn't we knew about it as soon as it happened - we had multiple polish sources translate it. This has nothing to do with you.
I'm sure that's why you used his (really bad by the way) translation in the post announcing the penalty for Tarson. No reason to take the weight off his shoulders, he fully deserves the shit he's getting, nobody likes rats.
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Loyalty to tarson over a concept of fairness and respect to tl? Anyone giving beetlelisk shit is a fucking noob. Nobody likes a rat? What a joke. Everyone on tl who isn't from Poland doesn't mind one.
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On February 12 2010 05:09 Mentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 08:45 Kennigit wrote:
So basically you feel bad because you think you narced on Tarson.
You didn't we knew about it as soon as it happened - we had multiple polish sources translate it. This has nothing to do with you. I'm sure that's why you used his (really bad by the way) translation in the post announcing the penalty for Tarson. No reason to take the weight off his shoulders, he fully deserves the shit he's getting, nobody likes rats.
Maybe they don't want to give out their sources? Doesn't really matter.
This is Tarson's fault. No one elses.
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On February 12 2010 05:09 Mentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2010 08:45 Kennigit wrote:
So basically you feel bad because you think you narced on Tarson.
You didn't we knew about it as soon as it happened - we had multiple polish sources translate it. This has nothing to do with you. I'm sure that's why you used his (really bad by the way) translation in the post announcing the penalty for Tarson. No reason to take the weight off his shoulders, he fully deserves the shit he's getting, nobody likes rats.
Never knew I was back in high school.
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On February 12 2010 06:54 Subversive wrote:
Loyalty to tarson over a concept of fairness and respect to tl? Anyone giving beetlelisk shit is a fucking noob. Nobody likes a rat? What a joke. Everyone on tl who isn't from Poland doesn't mind one.
'nobody likes a rat' is just a generic saying, it's not supposed to indicate how TL users feel, something that can't be said about your statement.
You sure weren't raised properly by your society if you appreciate rats, especially in a case like this where Tarson didn't hurt anyone and it can still be argued if what he posted was a leak or not. Not to mention that anyone not speaking polish wasn't affected at all, so how about you get your facts straight before you mouth off to me?
Also, grasp the meaning of the 'word' noob and its proper application before you use it again, idiot.
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On February 12 2010 07:27 Mentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2010 06:54 Subversive wrote:
Loyalty to tarson over a concept of fairness and respect to tl? Anyone giving beetlelisk shit is a fucking noob. Nobody likes a rat? What a joke. Everyone on tl who isn't from Poland doesn't mind one. 'nobody likes a rat' is just a generic saying, it's not supposed to indicate how TL users feel, something that can't be said about your statement. You sure weren't raised properly by your society if you appreciate rats, especially in a case like this where Tarson didn't hurt anyone and it can still be argued if what he posted was a leak or not. Not to mention that anyone not speaking polish wasn't affected at all, so how about you get your facts straight before you mouth off to me? Also, grasp the meaning of the 'word' noob and its proper application before you use it again, idiot.
Lawl. Any respectability you had in your argument was thrown out the window when you said it was arguable if it was a leak or not. Again, not sure how polish people do it, but I would assume no-one celebrates victories by swearing over and over again and then saying they played like shit and not to watch the games.
"FUCK GUYS! I can't believe how badly I played that game. Starcraft is so dumb sometimes! Definitely don't watch my games because I totally managed to come back and win that."
Do you see now why that makes no goddamn sense?
Also, no one likes a rat? What is this, prison?
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So we have 2 country stereotypes now:
Romania - Sarcasm failure
Poland - Common sense failure
We need more, 1 for each country!
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On February 11 2010 05:21 beetlelisk wrote:
I understand but couldn't it just be silenced by removing my post from live report thread and still releasing a warning for anyone who spoils the results in any way?
You're still missing the point. Tarson's post basically says "I lost" which may discourage people from watching the cast. People watching the cast is the whole reason pokerstrategy.com is sponsoring the event. Stop making this about you.
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Sunday, January 31st, 2010
Broadcast: 11:00 PST / 14:00 EST / 20:00 CET / 04:00 TL Time (next day)
(P)(us)Liquid`NonY < Bo5 > (T)(pl)iG.Tarson
(T)(pe)mouz.Fenix < Bo5 > (Z)(de)mouz.Kolll
Tarson actually posted this the same day the broadcast were being played.
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hey beetlelisk you're pretty awesome for trying to stand up for Tarson. You a good guy too, I mean I've plaed a few games with you out on US West. But yeah seriously, since he's getting some of his prize money, don't feel too bad 
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On February 12 2010 07:27 Mentos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2010 06:54 Subversive wrote:
Loyalty to tarson over a concept of fairness and respect to tl? Anyone giving beetlelisk shit is a fucking noob. Nobody likes a rat? What a joke. Everyone on tl who isn't from Poland doesn't mind one. 'nobody likes a rat' is just a generic saying, it's not supposed to indicate how TL users feel, something that can't be said about your statement. You sure weren't raised properly by your society if you appreciate rats, especially in a case like this where Tarson didn't hurt anyone and it can still be argued if what he posted was a leak or not. Not to mention that anyone not speaking polish wasn't affected at all, so how about you get your facts straight before you mouth off to me? Also, grasp the meaning of the 'word' noob and its proper application before you use it again, idiot.
I've grasped it dude. I meant you were a noob at life. And plenty of people here think it was hurtful from admins to regulars. And it was obviously a leak. Again you're in a massive minority arguing otherwise.
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