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Prozen
United States338 Posts
Even if there are replays of progamers playing against each other, it's usually over Battle.net and typically a friendly game. Don't get me wrong, they're still progamers and their play is superb, but I still have an inkling of doubt that in these replays, the progamers are not playing seriously as opposed to playing a game where there's money at stake. Is it really necessary to restrict the distribution of league games as replays?  | ||
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old times sake
165 Posts
On the other hand, if you have the cash you can have a competition that releases the replays. WCG replays are usually released IIRC... | ||
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RoieTRS
United States2569 Posts
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GTR
51589 Posts
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
On December 07 2009 14:40 Prozen wrote: @GTR: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by your statement. Could you elaborate? I think what he means is if replays were released to the public, less people would tune into the TV program (which makes money thru ad revenue) and just download and watch the replays later. Maybe? somethin like that. | ||
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wswordsmen
United States987 Posts
That and MBC and OGN get more ad revenue when they force you to watch their vods instead of replays. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17735 Posts
On December 07 2009 15:19 Prozen wrote: Progamers are able to save the replays after a game if they wish anyway so distribution of replays doesn't really have a great impact on that aspect. Look at Bisu. He eventually discovered a way to counter against Flash's build against Protoss after playing against Flash for quite some time. It's clear that Bisu probably saved the replays after the games and analyzed Flash's gameplay. Actually i was about to use that example. Bisu figured out how to play against flash's style and build. But this actually took a few months. Imagine if bisu figured it out in less then a week. Thats what releasing the reps would do. Also i always thought it myself. After a game you always see pros watching the rep of the game after. I always wondered whats stopping the pros from sending the rep to like their email or save it on a usb? The only possiblity i have is in some pc rooms i went to they had a pirated version of sc installed and for some reason i couldnt find the starcraft folder in the comp and could never upload reps onto any sites. Maybe thats how they stop pros from getting the reps. | ||
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
On December 07 2009 15:22 Ilikestarcraft wrote: Actually i was about to use that example. Bisu figured out how to play against flash's style and build. But this actually took a few months. Imagine if bisu figured it out in less then a week. Thats what releasing the reps would do. Also i always thought it myself. After a game you always see pros watching the rep of the game after. I always wondered whats stopping the pros from sending the rep to like their email or save it on a usb? The only possiblity i have is in some pc rooms i went to they had a pirated version of sc installed and for some reason i couldnt find the starcraft folder in the comp and could never upload reps onto any sites. Regardless of that fact, I was referring to zulu's statement that progamers would be able to pick up other progamer's strategies if the replays of their games were released after they played each other for the league. This option is already available. Each individual progamer is allowed to save replays of the games after the match. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17735 Posts
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On December 07 2009 14:53 Prozen wrote: I still don't see how cutting down replay distribution will reduce VOD viewership. If the replays were released AFTER the VODs were shown, I doubt the amount of people viewing the matches would decrease. Starcraft is viewed on two cable channels in Korea. That means there are people who could be watching the VODs that don't play Starcraft and releasing replays of these games after the VODs are shown could probably not have a significant effect at all in terms of viewership. I don't understand your reasoning at all. It's simple, if people are watching replays, people will have less time to watch starcraft live, some people won't be interested in watching live. Why would OGN and MBCgame release replays when they have nothing to gain from it? | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
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Atrioc
United States1866 Posts
they simply unplug their keyboard and mouse and leave, so there is no way for them to take a replay with them. They do often, however, watch the replay immediately after the game before the next one starts to see why they lost | ||
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eXigent.
Canada2419 Posts
On December 07 2009 17:12 Atrioc wrote: i'm pretty sure progamers do NOT get to keep replays they play in televised leagues they simply unplug their keyboard and mouse and leave, so there is no way for them to take a replay with them. They do often, however, watch the replay immediately after the game before the next one starts to see why they lost True, they only view them while in the booth. They are not allowed to take them back and study them, otherwise players would be countering builds in days, rather than weeks/months. Fantasy's mech build would of been figured out in 24hours.....ETC. They don't get to study them. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On December 07 2009 17:12 Atrioc wrote: i'm pretty sure progamers do NOT get to keep replays they play in televised leagues they simply unplug their keyboard and mouse and leave, so there is no way for them to take a replay with them. They do often, however, watch the replay immediately after the game before the next one starts to see why they lost I can confirm this because I actually asked Artosis once if IdrA gets to keep them lol. He does not, and the replays are never outside of the studio 99.99% of the time. | ||
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DIMJkE
Bulgaria425 Posts
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GTR
51589 Posts
On December 07 2009 18:46 DIMJkE wrote: Your best chance is to hack the commentators computers and download. I think they are allowed to take them home and analyse. no they are not, because it increases the risk of leakage. last progame i've seen leaked was back in 2006, anytime vs july (?) so it's kind of a good message on how tight they keep it from leaking. | ||
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DIMJkE
Bulgaria425 Posts
On December 07 2009 19:21 GTR wrote: no they are not, because it increases the risk of leakage. last progame i've seen leaked was back in 2006, anytime vs july (?) so it's kind of a good message on how tight they keep it from leaking. Half the GSI was leaked. | ||
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GTR
51589 Posts
honestly the coolest solution would be to release osl/msl/pl games 3 or so years after they have been played, offline qualifiers 2 years and courage 1 year. because maps and strategies used at that certain time period are most likely going to be rendered obsolete in the current modern day play. | ||
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Prozen
United States338 Posts
@T.O.P.: The solution is simple. Simply release the replays AFTER the games are streamed live on TV. People watching replays isn't necessarily correlated to the loss of viewers on Starcraft. | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
On December 07 2009 15:53 T.O.P. wrote: Why would OGN and MBCgame release replays when they have nothing to gain from it? | ||
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old times sake
165 Posts
On December 08 2009 07:46 Ver wrote: The weird part is that they don't release the games from years ago. Releasing recent games would be really stupid but All the KPGA games were released a few years ago and I doubt anyone really was hurt by seeing Nada 2 rax cc Yellow to death. Stuff up till 05/06 would seem reasonable to release. I like this idea. It would be nice if replays would come out after N years, but this could still hurt sales I guess because they can sell DVDs, or show reruns, etc. They should sell old replays! | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On December 09 2009 08:35 old times sake wrote: I like this idea. It would be nice if replays would come out after N years, but this could still hurt sales I guess because they can sell DVDs, or show reruns, etc. They should sell old replays! I doubt they would sell replays. For one thing, I would imagine it probably goes against Blizzard`s EULA (although I will admit, I am not certain). And for another, VOD`s allow them more commercial exposure. This will probably stay the same once SC2 is released, unless Blizzard implements some sort of advertisement bar in replay mode. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7499 Posts
Watching pro's replays demystifies their play. Watch jaedong vs stork on colo2 from wcg on vod. Then watch it on replay and notice the million tiny mistakes. Do the same for any match where there is a vod vs replay. After seeing jaedong vs arew for the first time I understood how 3 hat lair -> 5 hat eco play worked. From watching it once. While no matter what I tried I could not figure it out from vods .... That lack of detail to detail knowledge is what seperates us from them and by not seeing every single thing our hero's seem much more godlike. For instance watch how many times jaedong gets 2 or more hatches with 3 larva vs stork on tau. before seeing that I assumed it never happend at his level. I was wrong. Even though jaedong is the greatest zerg of all time, seeing those imperfect holes in his game made his play more human to me. Now I've begun noticing alot more of his tiny tiny mistakes , not in a bad way but only because I'm aware that he althought playing on the highest level IS still making small mistakes. I really believe this to be why they aren't released. If I'm wrong or insane lemme know  | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On December 09 2009 15:59 AttackZerg wrote: Flat out it is this simple. Watching pro's replays demystifies their play. Watch jaedong vs stork on colo2 from wcg on vod. Then watch it on replay and notice the million tiny mistakes. Do the same for any match where there is a vod vs replay. After seeing jaedong vs arew for the first time I understood how 3 hat lair -> 5 hat eco play worked. From watching it once. While no matter what I tried I could not figure it out from vods .... That lack of detail to detail knowledge is what seperates us from them and by not seeing every single thing our hero's seem much more godlike. For instance watch how many times jaedong gets 2 or more hatches with 3 larva vs stork on tau. before seeing that I assumed it never happend at his level. I was wrong. Even though jaedong is the greatest zerg of all time, seeing those imperfect holes in his game made his play more human to me. Now I've begun noticing alot more of his tiny tiny mistakes , not in a bad way but only because I'm aware that he althought playing on the highest level IS still making small mistakes. I really believe this to be why they aren't released. If I'm wrong or insane lemme know Somehow, I can`t sympathise with you. Personally, I nevet get "demystified" by pro replays. On the contrary, I think it only serves to magnify the attention to detail that progamers have over regular players. Yes, mistakes happen, progamers are only human afterall. That does not (or at least should not) make their gameplay any less impressive. Do not get me wrong, VOD`s are superior from a purely spectator standpoint. But that has more to do with the fact that VOD`s make every game a mini-spectacle (with the shots of the various players and the crowd and the ocassional funny reaction from the commentators) whereas replays are nothing more but raw gameplay. | ||
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old times sake
165 Posts
On December 09 2009 15:59 AttackZerg wrote: Watching pro's replays demystifies their play. Watch jaedong vs stork on colo2 from wcg on vod. Then watch it on replay and notice the million tiny mistakes. Do the same for any match where there is a vod vs replay. After seeing jaedong vs arew for the first time I understood how 3 hat lair -> 5 hat eco play worked. From watching it once. While no matter what I tried I could not figure it out from vods .... That lack of detail to detail knowledge is what seperates us from them and by not seeing every single thing our hero's seem much more godlike. This point is interesting because, if we agree on it, it means that there is something to be gained by restricting replays. It reminds me of when there were no replays. Back then, even your opponent could mystify you! Imagine... | ||
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