Why is it that the games that are played in the progamer leagues such as OSL, Proleague, and MSL are never released as replays? I understand that most progamers do not want to have the general public study their gamestyles, but it's ridiculous how not even a single replay is available of the games played in those respective leagues. It irks me that when I want to analyze Flash's gameplay against Bisu in the Bacchus OSL 2008 on Katrina, arguably one of 2008's best games, I can't find it anywhere because it was never distributed as a replay.

Even if there are replays of progamers playing against each other, it's usually over Battle.net and typically a friendly game. Don't get me wrong, they're still progamers and their play is superb, but I still have an inkling of doubt that in these replays, the progamers are not playing seriously as opposed to playing a game where there's money at stake. Is it really necessary to restrict the distribution of league games as replays?

old times sake

165 Posts

December 07 2009 05:36 GMT

A single replay can give away more than they want.

On the other hand, if you have the cash you can have a competition that releases the replays. WCG replays are usually released IIRC...

RoieTRS

United States2569 Posts

December 07 2009 05:37 GMT

At least wcg releases them all.

GTR

51589 Posts

December 07 2009 05:38 GMT

revenue from advertising

Prozen

United States338 Posts

December 07 2009 05:40 GMT

I'm aware that WCG releases replays. Still, I'd really like to see replays from the Korean professional leagues as well.

Prozen

United States338 Posts

December 07 2009 05:40 GMT

@GTR: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by your statement. Could you elaborate?

meeple

Canada10211 Posts

December 07 2009 05:42 GMT

Well players complain about releasing replays... it cramps their style.

zOula...

United States898 Posts

December 07 2009 05:45 GMT

On December 07 2009 14:40 Prozen wrote:
@GTR: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by your statement. Could you elaborate?

I think what he means is if replays were released to the public, less people would tune into the TV program (which makes money thru ad revenue) and just download and watch the replays later. Maybe? somethin like that.

wswordsmen

United States987 Posts

December 07 2009 05:46 GMT

The companys that sponsor the tournaments want you to watch the vods because that way their name is plastered everywhere and you are reminded to buy their product. If they distributed the replays then the amount of advertising they could do would go down.

That and MBC and OGN get more ad revenue when they force you to watch their vods instead of replays.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 07 2009 05:46 GMT

#10

what gtr said, copyright, strategy/builds, etc.

Megalisk

United States6095 Posts

December 07 2009 05:48 GMT

#11

They should make maps with company names on them, then well get all the replays we want :D.

Prozen

United States338 Posts

December 07 2009 05:53 GMT

#12

I still don't see how cutting down replay distribution will reduce VOD viewership. If the replays were released AFTER the VODs were shown, I doubt the amount of people viewing the matches would decrease. Starcraft is viewed on two cable channels in Korea. That means there are people who could be watching the VODs that don't play Starcraft and releasing replays of these games after the VODs are shown could probably not have a significant effect at all in terms of viewership.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 07 2009 06:01 GMT

#13

Thats perhaps true but there's still the strategy part which will always stay that way.

Prozen

United States338 Posts

December 07 2009 06:06 GMT

#14

That's the thing though. Even if the replays were distributed, it's not like any player would be able to pick up a progamer's strategy, incorporate it into their gameplay, and go pro. There's still timing concepts, map utilization, and gamesense still involved. Eventually, all the progamers' strategies are discovered anyway so what's the point of keeping these replays from the public?

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

December 07 2009 06:14 GMT

#15

Progamers WILL pick up other progamer's strategies, study them, make them less effective and so on if replays get released. Progamers don't care if the public watch their replays, it's the people they are competing with they are worried about.

Prozen

United States338 Posts

December 07 2009 06:19 GMT

#16

Progamers are able to save the replays after a game if they wish anyway so distribution of replays doesn't really have a great impact on that aspect. Look at Bisu. He eventually discovered a way to counter against Flash's build against Protoss after playing against Flash for quite some time. It's clear that Bisu probably saved the replays after the games and analyzed Flash's gameplay.

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17735 Posts

December 07 2009 06:22 GMT

#17

On December 07 2009 15:19 Prozen wrote:
Progamers are able to save the replays after a game if they wish anyway so distribution of replays doesn't really have a great impact on that aspect. Look at Bisu. He eventually discovered a way to counter against Flash's build against Protoss after playing against Flash for quite some time. It's clear that Bisu probably saved the replays after the games and analyzed Flash's gameplay.

Actually i was about to use that example. Bisu figured out how to play against flash's style and build. But this actually took a few months. Imagine if bisu figured it out in less then a week. Thats what releasing the reps would do.

Also i always thought it myself. After a game you always see pros watching the rep of the game after. I always wondered whats stopping the pros from sending the rep to like their email or save it on a usb? The only possiblity i have is in some pc rooms i went to they had a pirated version of sc installed and for some reason i couldnt find the starcraft folder in the comp and could never upload reps onto any sites. Maybe thats how they stop pros from getting the reps.

Prozen

United States338 Posts

December 07 2009 06:26 GMT

#18

On December 07 2009 15:22 Ilikestarcraft wrote:

Show nested quote +

Regardless of that fact, I was referring to zulu's statement that progamers would be able to pick up other progamer's strategies if the replays of their games were released after they played each other for the league. This option is already available. Each individual progamer is allowed to save replays of the games after the match.

Ilikestarcraft

Korea (South)17735 Posts

December 07 2009 06:28 GMT

#19

They can save the reps but im pretty sure they're somehow not able to take the reps out. They can probably watch the rep once or something while waiting for the next game.

T.O.P.

Hong Kong4685 Posts

December 07 2009 06:53 GMT

#20

On December 07 2009 14:53 Prozen wrote:
I still don't see how cutting down replay distribution will reduce VOD viewership. If the replays were released AFTER the VODs were shown, I doubt the amount of people viewing the matches would decrease. Starcraft is viewed on two cable channels in Korea. That means there are people who could be watching the VODs that don't play Starcraft and releasing replays of these games after the VODs are shown could probably not have a significant effect at all in terms of viewership.

I don't understand your reasoning at all.

It's simple, if people are watching replays, people will have less time to watch starcraft live, some people won't be interested in watching live.

Why would OGN and MBCgame release replays when they have nothing to gain from it?