This game is hard enough. I don't need Heartbreak Ridge making it any harder.
I'm already a dumbass and choose to play Terran as my main race. (seriously why am I playing terran? I think I asked why in a previous blog...) Terran on it's own is a fucking impossible race to play. Every game on any map is like uberhardmode. Now add this god awful map called Heartbreak Ridge to the equation and you get some ridiculously stupid mix of uberhardmode and impossibility.
What it should have been called was fuckyouintheass ridge.
I swear EVERY possible FUCKING thing that messes with your mind is in play on HBR. First of all it's a one on one map, so say hello to bullshit cheeses 24/7. Proxy gateway in ur main with pylon on ridge outside. How fucked up is that. If you spawn right side you have to wall or u pretty much get stolen gas which is pretty much gg. Especially since there are no ramps. Are you kidding me? No ramps even? At least on destination we had a ramp. As if no fucking ramps was bad enough, there's a LEDGE above your choke. rofl? Ledge above ramp is bad enough on colo2 but at least there you get a nested natural. Here any possible wall is on the inside so you still have to work your ass off to simply survive a 10/15 gate and then still have to work like a mofo for ur expo.
Your nat is a joke, positioning turrets vs muta harass is like rofl. You can place turrets above but they get picked off so easily. You can position stuff below but u have no vision and he just rapes scvs randomly and ur gas always gets raped. Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it. fucking homo.
There are multiple main paths to the enemy base. Your army can be pushing on one side while a million troops march for a counter and when you try to pull back all ur shit gets clusterfucked in the middle. Oh by the way why the FUCK is there a base in the middle. I swear it's probably more fucking retarded than the middle base on Andromeda. Good luck trying to take a 4th base TvP. Good luck taking out zerg expos at 11 or 5. If they position sunks correctly and have swarm the chokes into those bases is so small its gg no re. And it takes u an hour to get to those bases. Reminds me of Katrina when ur troops basically had to run 26 miles to take out zerg expos. hell even taking a 3rd base feels shitty. half the time when you try to take 1 or 7 your stuck covering with tanks on the low ground near one of the ridges. If you don't mine+position perfectly every time u get fucked. How stupid is that? I mean seriously this game is a fucking hardmode game already why... just why.
Did I mention the temple+mineral fucking idiotjoke behind ur natural yet? No? Well guess what, whoever decided this map wasn't a fucking homonightmare already decided to add this shit which u can mine out or glitch units through. glitching DT's through there is really fucking retarded. You can have turret positioned at ur nat and turrets in main but if he glitches a few dts or mines it out u can get fucked so easily.
I don't give a shit what the progaming stats are on this map btw this is the most imba and most retarded map ever. (I'm sure it's a "Terran" favored map, BULLCRAP)
I do believe this is the worst map to grace the competitive starcraft scene in my 11 year history of playing this stupid game. It's motw on iccup right now and easily the most popular map in random public games. F that and F HBR. All I can say is the next one on one map better fucking have choke ramps or there will be hell to pay.
Thats why pro terran players put an scv on each path to their base, later they use flying buildings, but up untill then you need an scv or like you said they just go around u and into your base.
Then guess what happens? u get clusterfucked in middle.
you can also use 2 supply depots and a rax to perfect wall ur nat.
the ridge above ur nat is agreeably retarded. zerg just 2hatch muta and pick off whatever ur using to sight the mineral then go into lurker and screw up ur nat. ive found that literally walling it with turrets works best.
i dont know if u were asking for advice or just ranting but i feel ur pain.
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
Everytime I read a rant about Terran being hard, I'm so fucking not annoyed at all. I feel so compassionate, so understanding, so warm... The feeling that I'm not the only one out there suffering.. We're all suffering together...
After losing to Terrans on Desti who go Mech and go into a game not wanting to attack and just camp their half I don't feel the slighest bit of sympathy.
On September 10 2009 13:26 LuckyFool wrote: Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it.
lmao you even whine about non-positional map imbalances in a mirror matchup
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
Hahaha great post :D Now i'm way more proud of my race
At topic - that's why I only play on this map total-camp-Flash-style-make-them-mine-out which inspired me in his GOM game vs Shuttle. Also it is quite good to do 10/10/10 vs 10/15. But then, I feel quite behind if they don't do 10/15... :[
heartbreak ridge is actually one of the most imbalanced TvP maps ever made. Infact, it is up there with Requiem. after the northeast lan, ill do a little guide on how to tvp it. im in my 5th day of hardcore studying/playing it, hardest map ever, dont feel bad if u lose all ur games on it.
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
I can picture tvp there being annoying i guess and pvz is a little annoying because zerg can do all kinds of allins (although you get very good at facing them after a while) but everything else is great
Yeah I suck at TvP on this map too. Perhaps because it's so easy to counter for protoss and the fact that it's hard to have more than 3 bases as Terran.
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
On September 10 2009 14:51 mrgerry wrote: After losing to Terrans on Desti who go Mech and go into a game not wanting to attack and just camp their half I don't feel the slighest bit of sympathy.
yeah this is exactly my thoughts. It's also not like PvZ is a walk in the park, dying to different ling allins 4 times in a row on HBR
On September 10 2009 14:51 mrgerry wrote: After losing to Terrans on Desti who go Mech and go into a game not wanting to attack and just camp their half I don't feel the slighest bit of sympathy.
yeah this is exactly my thoughts. It's also not like PvZ is a walk in the park, dying to different ling allins 4 times in a row on HBR
ZvP on heartbreak seems like
Zerg has the advantage for the first half of the game with the no ramp, behind nat minerals, wide natural, hard to take 3rd, easy to get contained terrain in many ways.
Then after that, if protoss takes a 3rd easily, splitting the map is hell for zerg, the map becomes smaller, drops work still, but the map is pretty small to travel when it occurs.
Most zergs on iccup prefer non-macro games however.. so i can see why you complain
On September 10 2009 14:51 mrgerry wrote: After losing to Terrans on Desti who go Mech and go into a game not wanting to attack and just camp their half I don't feel the slighest bit of sympathy.
yeah this is exactly my thoughts. It's also not like PvZ is a walk in the park, dying to different ling allins 4 times in a row on HBR
ZvP on heartbreak seems like
Zerg has the advantage for the first half of the game with the no ramp, behind nat minerals, wide natural, hard to take 3rd, easy to get contained terrain in many ways.
Then after that, if protoss takes a 3rd easily, splitting the map is hell for zerg, the map becomes smaller, drops work still, but the map is pretty small to travel when it occurs.
Most zergs on iccup prefer non-macro games however.. so i can see why you complain
I find ZvP on HBR very, very easy. The third is positioned such that it can easily be taken by a 3hatch spire -> 5hatch hydra build. When the toss tries to push in early to take it after forge FE, you can trap their army there and take it out with a hydra force, macro up a big one quickly, then take them out. Alternatively, 2hatch hydra break ftw.
This game is hard enough. I don't need Heartbreak Ridge making it any harder.
I'm already a dumbass and choose to play Protoss as my main race. (seriously why am I playing Protoss? I think I asked why in a previous blog...) Protosson it's own is a fucking hard race to play. Every game on any map is like uberhardmode. Now add this god awful map called Heartbreak Ridge to the equation and you get some ridiculously stupid mix of uberhardmode and impossibility.
What it should have been called was fuckyouintheass ridge.
I swear EVERY possible FUCKING thing that messes with your mind is in play on HBR. First of all it's a one on one map, so say hello to bullshit cheeses 24/7. Proxy barracks in ur main?. How fucked up is that. If you spawn right side you have to wall or u pretty much get stolen gas which is pretty much gg. Especially since there are no ramps. Are you kidding me? No ramps even? At least on destination we had a ramp. As if no fucking ramps was bad enough, there's a LEDGE above your choke. rofl? Ledge above ramp is bad enough on colo2 but at least there you get a nested natural. Here any possible wall is on the inside so you still have to work your ass off to simply survive a 10/15 gate and then still have to work like a mofo for ur expo.
Your nat is a joke, positioning cannons vs muta harass is like rofl. You can place canons above but they get picked off so easily. You can position stuff below but u have no vision and he just rapes probes randomly and ur gas always gets raped. Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it. fucking homo.
There are multiple main paths to the enemy base. Your army can be pushing on one side while a million troops march for a counter and when you try to pull back all ur shit gets clusterfucked in the middle. Oh by the way why the FUCK is there a base in the middle. I swear it's probably more fucking retarded than the middle base on Andromeda. Good luck trying to take a 4th base PvT. Good luck taking out zerg expos at 11 or 5. If they position sunks correctly and have swarm the chokes into those bases is so small its gg no re. And it takes u an hour to get to those bases. Reminds me of Katrina when ur troops basically had to run 26 miles to take out zerg expos. hell even taking a 3rd base feels shitty. half the time when you try to take 1 or 7 your stuck covering with goons on the low ground near one of the ridges. If you don't observer+zealot perfectly every time u get fucked. How stupid is that? I mean seriously this game is a fucking hardmode game already why... just why.
Did I mention the temple+mineral fucking idiotjoke behind ur natural yet? No? Well guess what, whoever decided this map wasn't a fucking homonightmare already decided to add this shit which u can mine out or glitch units through. glitching Vultures/Lings through there is really fucking retarded. You can have cannon positioned at ur nat and cannons in main but if he glitches a few vultures or mines it out u can get fucked so easily.
I don't give a shit what the progaming stats are on this map btw this is the most imba and most retarded map ever. (I'm sure it's a "Protoss" favored map, BULLCRAP)
I do believe this is the worst map to grace the competitive starcraft scene in my 11 year history of playing this stupid game. It's motw on iccup right now and easily the most popular map in random public games. F that and F HBR. All I can say is the next one on one map better fucking have choke ramps or there will be hell to pay.
Good read :D now I know where I will train my ZvT skills I will pay you for it with...
On September 10 2009 14:44 Grobyc wrote: Those sneaky fuckers are out to get us Lucky.
And fuck Zerg just because 2hatch is imba.
Add 2nd rax before CC. This is so simple. Use mineral trick to put like 2nd scout in Z's / P's base. edit + the same to make it leave your own base safely (so send like 2scvs and you need 3 to make those 2 leave your base). FOCUS FIRE MUTAS - 10 Marines with +0 kill 1 in 2 shots that is ~1second? Use hold?
@ cliffs behind nat: Dude, there is enough place to place a Hatchery (I've just checked) so place rax / depots there for vision and as a 2nd wall in?
BTW
On September 10 2009 22:36 ghermination wrote: This game is hard enough. I don't need Heartbreak Ridge making it any harder.
I'm already a dumbass and choose to play Protoss as my main race. (seriously why am I playing Protoss? I think I asked why in a previous blog...) Protosson it's own is a fucking hard race to play. Every game on any map is like uberhardmode. Now add this god awful map called Heartbreak Ridge to the equation and you get some ridiculously stupid mix of uberhardmode and impossibility.
What it should have been called was fuckyouintheass ridge.
I swear EVERY possible FUCKING thing that messes with your mind is in play on HBR. First of all it's a one on one map, so say hello to bullshit cheeses 24/7. Proxy barracks in ur main?. How fucked up is that. If you spawn right side you have to wall or u pretty much get stolen gas which is pretty much gg. Especially since there are no ramps. Are you kidding me? No ramps even? At least on destination we had a ramp. As if no fucking ramps was bad enough, there's a LEDGE above your choke. rofl? Ledge above ramp is bad enough on colo2 but at least there you get a nested natural. Here any possible wall is on the inside so you still have to work your ass off to simply survive a 10/15 gate and then still have to work like a mofo for ur expo.
Your nat is a joke, positioning cannons vs muta harass is like rofl. You can place canons above but they get picked off so easily. You can position stuff below but u have no vision and he just rapes probes randomly and ur gas always gets raped. Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it. fucking homo.
There are multiple main paths to the enemy base. Your army can be pushing on one side while a million troops march for a counter and when you try to pull back all ur shit gets clusterfucked in the middle. Oh by the way why the FUCK is there a base in the middle. I swear it's probably more fucking retarded than the middle base on Andromeda. Good luck trying to take a 4th base PvT. Good luck taking out zerg expos at 11 or 5. If they position sunks correctly and have swarm the chokes into those bases is so small its gg no re. And it takes u an hour to get to those bases. Reminds me of Katrina when ur troops basically had to run 26 miles to take out zerg expos. hell even taking a 3rd base feels shitty. half the time when you try to take 1 or 7 your stuck covering with tanks on the low ground near one of the ridges. If you don't mine+position perfectly every time u get fucked. How stupid is that? I mean seriously this game is a fucking hardmode game already why... just why.
Did I mention the temple+mineral fucking idiotjoke behind ur natural yet? No? Well guess what, whoever decided this map wasn't a fucking homonightmare already decided to add this shit which u can mine out or glitch units through. glitching Vultures/Lings through there is really fucking retarded. You can have cannon positioned at ur nat and cannons in main but if he glitches a few vultures or mines it out u can get fucked so easily.
I don't give a shit what the progaming stats are on this map btw this is the most imba and most retarded map ever. (I'm sure it's a "Protoss" favored map, BULLCRAP)
I do believe this is the worst map to grace the competitive starcraft scene in my 11 year history of playing this stupid game. It's motw on iccup right now and easily the most popular map in random public games. F that and F HBR. All I can say is the next one on one map better fucking have choke ramps or there will be hell to pay.
what's weird is that it's a TvZ favored map at pro level 18-13 or something, but TvZ seems really hard on that map. TvP really is imba lol. as P i can open with 12 nex ez and terran cant do jack shit :/ then i just get arbiters and my 3rd/4th and yeah recallu~~~
Good read :D now I know where I will train my ZvT skills I will pay you for it with...
On September 10 2009 14:44 Grobyc wrote: Those sneaky fuckers are out to get us Lucky.
And fuck Zerg just because 2hatch is imba.
Add 2nd rax before CC. This is so simple. Use mineral trick to put like 2nd scout in Z's / P's base. edit + the same to make it leave your own base safely (so send like 2scvs and you need 3 to make those 2 leave your base). FOCUS FIRE MUTAS - 10 Marines with +0 kill 1 in 2 shots that is ~1second? Use hold?
@ cliffs behind nat: Dude, there is enough place to place a Hatchery (I've just checked) so place rax / depots there for vision and as a 2nd wall in?
BTW
On September 10 2009 22:36 ghermination wrote: This game is hard enough. I don't need Heartbreak Ridge making it any harder.
I'm already a dumbass and choose to play Protoss as my main race. (seriously why am I playing Protoss? I think I asked why in a previous blog...) Protosson it's own is a fucking hard race to play. Every game on any map is like uberhardmode. Now add this god awful map called Heartbreak Ridge to the equation and you get some ridiculously stupid mix of uberhardmode and impossibility.
What it should have been called was fuckyouintheass ridge.
I swear EVERY possible FUCKING thing that messes with your mind is in play on HBR. First of all it's a one on one map, so say hello to bullshit cheeses 24/7. Proxy barracks in ur main?. How fucked up is that. If you spawn right side you have to wall or u pretty much get stolen gas which is pretty much gg. Especially since there are no ramps. Are you kidding me? No ramps even? At least on destination we had a ramp. As if no fucking ramps was bad enough, there's a LEDGE above your choke. rofl? Ledge above ramp is bad enough on colo2 but at least there you get a nested natural. Here any possible wall is on the inside so you still have to work your ass off to simply survive a 10/15 gate and then still have to work like a mofo for ur expo.
Your nat is a joke, positioning cannons vs muta harass is like rofl. You can place canons above but they get picked off so easily. You can position stuff below but u have no vision and he just rapes probes randomly and ur gas always gets raped. Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it. fucking homo.
There are multiple main paths to the enemy base. Your army can be pushing on one side while a million troops march for a counter and when you try to pull back all ur shit gets clusterfucked in the middle. Oh by the way why the FUCK is there a base in the middle. I swear it's probably more fucking retarded than the middle base on Andromeda. Good luck trying to take a 4th base PvT. Good luck taking out zerg expos at 11 or 5. If they position sunks correctly and have swarm the chokes into those bases is so small its gg no re. And it takes u an hour to get to those bases. Reminds me of Katrina when ur troops basically had to run 26 miles to take out zerg expos. hell even taking a 3rd base feels shitty. half the time when you try to take 1 or 7 your stuck covering with tanks on the low ground near one of the ridges. If you don't mine+position perfectly every time u get fucked. How stupid is that? I mean seriously this game is a fucking hardmode game already why... just why.
Did I mention the temple+mineral fucking idiotjoke behind ur natural yet? No? Well guess what, whoever decided this map wasn't a fucking homonightmare already decided to add this shit which u can mine out or glitch units through. glitching Vultures/Lings through there is really fucking retarded. You can have cannon positioned at ur nat and cannons in main but if he glitches a few vultures or mines it out u can get fucked so easily.
I don't give a shit what the progaming stats are on this map btw this is the most imba and most retarded map ever. (I'm sure it's a "Protoss" favored map, BULLCRAP)
I do believe this is the worst map to grace the competitive starcraft scene in my 11 year history of playing this stupid game. It's motw on iccup right now and easily the most popular map in random public games. F that and F HBR. All I can say is the next one on one map better fucking have choke ramps or there will be hell to pay.
wait you have the opportunity to win with "strategic play" and you don't want to? Are you sure you should be playing protoss? Terran is always looking for more recruits~
On September 10 2009 20:04 Artosis wrote: heartbreak ridge is actually one of the most imbalanced TvP maps ever made. Infact, it is up there with Requiem. after the northeast lan, ill do a little guide on how to tvp it. im in my 5th day of hardcore studying/playing it, hardest map ever, dont feel bad if u lose all ur games on it.
WORD!
If you think it's a terran map you should just be banned for spreading lies lol
Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
Good read :D now I know where I will train my ZvT skills I will pay you for it with...
On September 10 2009 14:44 Grobyc wrote: Those sneaky fuckers are out to get us Lucky.
And fuck Zerg just because 2hatch is imba.
Add 2nd rax before CC. This is so simple. Use mineral trick to put like 2nd scout in Z's / P's base. edit + the same to make it leave your own base safely (so send like 2scvs and you need 3 to make those 2 leave your base). FOCUS FIRE MUTAS - 10 Marines with +0 kill 1 in 2 shots that is ~1second? Use hold?
@ cliffs behind nat: Dude, there is enough place to place a Hatchery (I've just checked) so place rax / depots there for vision and as a 2nd wall in?
BTW
On September 10 2009 22:36 ghermination wrote: This game is hard enough. I don't need Heartbreak Ridge making it any harder.
I'm already a dumbass and choose to play Protoss as my main race. (seriously why am I playing Protoss? I think I asked why in a previous blog...) Protosson it's own is a fucking hard race to play. Every game on any map is like uberhardmode. Now add this god awful map called Heartbreak Ridge to the equation and you get some ridiculously stupid mix of uberhardmode and impossibility.
What it should have been called was fuckyouintheass ridge.
I swear EVERY possible FUCKING thing that messes with your mind is in play on HBR. First of all it's a one on one map, so say hello to bullshit cheeses 24/7. Proxy barracks in ur main?. How fucked up is that. If you spawn right side you have to wall or u pretty much get stolen gas which is pretty much gg. Especially since there are no ramps. Are you kidding me? No ramps even? At least on destination we had a ramp. As if no fucking ramps was bad enough, there's a LEDGE above your choke. rofl? Ledge above ramp is bad enough on colo2 but at least there you get a nested natural. Here any possible wall is on the inside so you still have to work your ass off to simply survive a 10/15 gate and then still have to work like a mofo for ur expo.
Your nat is a joke, positioning cannons vs muta harass is like rofl. You can place canons above but they get picked off so easily. You can position stuff below but u have no vision and he just rapes probes randomly and ur gas always gets raped. Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it. fucking homo.
There are multiple main paths to the enemy base. Your army can be pushing on one side while a million troops march for a counter and when you try to pull back all ur shit gets clusterfucked in the middle. Oh by the way why the FUCK is there a base in the middle. I swear it's probably more fucking retarded than the middle base on Andromeda. Good luck trying to take a 4th base PvT. Good luck taking out zerg expos at 11 or 5. If they position sunks correctly and have swarm the chokes into those bases is so small its gg no re. And it takes u an hour to get to those bases. Reminds me of Katrina when ur troops basically had to run 26 miles to take out zerg expos. hell even taking a 3rd base feels shitty. half the time when you try to take 1 or 7 your stuck covering with tanks on the low ground near one of the ridges. If you don't mine+position perfectly every time u get fucked. How stupid is that? I mean seriously this game is a fucking hardmode game already why... just why.
Did I mention the temple+mineral fucking idiotjoke behind ur natural yet? No? Well guess what, whoever decided this map wasn't a fucking homonightmare already decided to add this shit which u can mine out or glitch units through. glitching Vultures/Lings through there is really fucking retarded. You can have cannon positioned at ur nat and cannons in main but if he glitches a few vultures or mines it out u can get fucked so easily.
I don't give a shit what the progaming stats are on this map btw this is the most imba and most retarded map ever. (I'm sure it's a "Protoss" favored map, BULLCRAP)
I do believe this is the worst map to grace the competitive starcraft scene in my 11 year history of playing this stupid game. It's motw on iccup right now and easily the most popular map in random public games. F that and F HBR. All I can say is the next one on one map better fucking have choke ramps or there will be hell to pay.
Oh and I just found out recently u can siege tanks at the third and rape the other guys nat gas TvT and other guy can't do jack shit about it. fucking homo.
tvz could be insanely good on this map, you have to sit down and figure out what you doing something that artosis is good at. I do hope he is going to do the guide on tvz as well for HBR
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
On September 10 2009 14:07 lazz wrote: yeah bro, sounds like you shouldnt be playing terran if you find it so difficult/frustrating.. lol
Fuck that. Terran is the race of big dicked Vikings who rampage across the galaxies in huge battleships, rip up the ground with artillery spawned from the forges of hell, and send waves of valiant warriors to fight the freaks of science. Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop.
Awesome post! :D
I agree that TvP is retardedly hard on Heartbreak. I've had to deal with some sort of gay cheese every single game. So recently I decided that if they're gay to me, I'm gonna be gay back. I've started to proxy facs and float it inside they're main, go for heavy dropship play, all-in MnM+Tank combo (which has actually given me some succes) or going super turtle style. But it's hard. Really hard.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Thank you Fusion for speaking the truth.
Also, vultures (I assume that's what you're talking about) doesn't 2 shot workers. Even probes are sometimes 3 shot because of shield regeneration.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Shields suck because they take full damage. I'd take repair over recharge anyday. Therefore, I can be protected by a wall and get away unpunished with zero units because I can repair that wall and play greedy while if the other races did the same, their base would get torn up. SCV > Probe, and early early game worker harrass, you lose like, what? 1 worker? Try having 150% health in late/mid game (when it counts) and how much it saves your ass when there are units attacking ur workers and they pop so easily cuz they only have 40 life (which half of it take full damage)
Oh yeah, when did DTs ever 1 shot an SCV? If you lose few DTs, that will put a dent on your gas You lost a few vultures? Oh, so what? They only cost 75 mineral, lets make a billion more and put FREE mines all over the place
On September 10 2009 14:51 mrgerry wrote: After losing to Terrans on Desti who go Mech and go into a game not wanting to attack and just camp their half I don't feel the slighest bit of sympathy.
yeah this is exactly my thoughts. It's also not like PvZ is a walk in the park, dying to different ling allins 4 times in a row on HBR
It's really not any different then what P's do to T on Dest because they just don't want to deal with the lategame on the map.
On September 10 2009 20:04 Artosis wrote: heartbreak ridge is actually one of the most imbalanced TvP maps ever made. Infact, it is up there with Requiem. after the northeast lan, ill do a little guide on how to tvp it. im in my 5th day of hardcore studying/playing it, hardest map ever, dont feel bad if u lose all ur games on it.
artosis, you realize your comments on terran balance are basically useless at this point, right?
On September 11 2009 01:32 ghostWriter wrote: For some insane reason, the top player on iccup is Terran and has played Heartbreak exclusively. He's also b+. I really don't know how he does it.
The second-ranked player on iccup is a zerg who has played 129/132 games on Heartbreak. In fact, it seems like the only map the top-ranked players play is Heartbreak. Glancing through the top 20, all three races seem to be represented rather evenly. I didn't count though, so double check if you're interested. Considering that all the top players play Heartbreak and all races seem to be doing okay, at the very least I'd say Heartbreak is balanced at the pro level.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Shields suck because they take full damage. I'd take repair over recharge anyday. Therefore, I can be protected by a wall and get away unpunished with zero units because I can repair that wall and play greedy while if the other races did the same, their base would get torn up. SCV > Probe, and early early game worker harrass, you lose like, what? 1 worker? Try having 150% health in late/mid game (when it counts) and how much it saves your ass when there are units attacking ur workers and they pop so easily cuz they only have 40 life (which half of it take full damage)
Oh yeah, when did DTs ever 1 shot an SCV? If you lose few DTs, that will put a dent on your gas You lost a few vultures? Oh, so what? They only cost 75 mineral, lets make a billion more and put FREE mines all over the place
O yeah, repair owns because its automatic. OH WAIT YOU HAVE TO MANUALLY REPAIR EVERY UNIT AND BUILDING! You can't get away with zero units, a goon can snipe the shit out of scvs repairing the wall. in late/mid game, reaver and storm STILL rapes scvs despite their extra 20 hp. And if you rush DTs, what can a terran do to kill it? It's not like you can use a vulture/tank like you can use archon/zeal, using splash damage to kill a lurker. Oh what? You laid a million mines and one zealot walks through and one explodes, setting off all of the others and the zeal still has like 50 hp left?
I said in my OP and I'll say it again; I don't give a flying shit what the progaming stats are on the map. I'm a B- terran and I lose WAY more on that map than other maps. This is all that matters. progaming stats on the map mean about as much to me as what you ate for breakfast this morning- zilch.
It's as simple as that. You can stats hunt and argue until your blue in the face, the map is fucking imba and extremely difficult for terran laddering early in the season on iccup at D+ ranks.
On September 11 2009 05:26 LuckyFool wrote: I said in my OP and I'll say it again; I don't give a flying shit what the progaming stats are on the map. I'm a B- terran and I lose WAY more on that map than other maps. This is all that matters. progaming stats on the map mean about as much to me as what you ate for breakfast this morning- zilch.
It's as simple as that. You can stats hunt and argue until your blue in the face, the map is fucking imba and extremely difficult for terran laddering early in the season on iccup at D+ ranks.
It's true. The map is very, very difficult to play as terrans, stats don't mean that much, especially with such a small sample size.
i fucking love hbr cuz pvt is so easy. i beat c terrans regularly on that map without cheese. mmmm.
but yeah, seriously its imba.
BUT, it makes up for desti camp for 40 min terrans till you run out of minerals. that shit is lame, cuz the game takes so fucking long.
edit: and if it makes you feel any better, toss gets raped by zerg on that map (at least in my experiences) just because of the number of gay ass cheeses that they can do. srsly, the backdoor is 10x worse than destis AND the choke is bigger. so, take solace in that at least.
On September 10 2009 23:53 inertinept wrote: if i played terran I would play TvT TvZ ZvP as TvP is literally impossible unless your much better than your opponent, or the map is othello.
This man speaks the fuckin truth...
FUCK heartbreaker. ONlY TERRANS HAVE HEARTS, AND IT ONLY BREAKS OUR HEARTS.... Zerg got evolution chamubers, and protoss are retarded.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Thank you Fusion for speaking the truth.
Also, vultures (I assume that's what you're talking about) doesn't 2 shot workers. Even probes are sometimes 3 shot because of shield regeneration.
you can 2 shot drones if 2 vultures fire on one at the exact same time
but probes you can kill in 2 shots with one if there's no gap in the firing
On September 10 2009 23:53 inertinept wrote: if i played terran I would play TvT TvZ ZvP as TvP is literally impossible unless your much better than your opponent, or the map is othello.
This man speaks the fuckin truth...
FUCK heartbreaker. ONlY TERRANS HAVE HEARTS, AND IT ONLY BREAKS OUR HEARTS.... Zerg got evolution chamubers, and protoss are retarded.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Thank you Fusion for speaking the truth.
Also, vultures (I assume that's what you're talking about) doesn't 2 shot workers. Even probes are sometimes 3 shot because of shield regeneration.
you can 2 shot drones if 2 vultures fire on one at the exact same time
but probes you can kill in 2 shots with one if there's no gap in the firing
(sorry if you know this lol)
even hold-attack doesnt work for 2vultures vs 1drone... for some reason its just like INSTAREGEN
EDIT: woops double post... i somehow found this thread again and didnt recognize it... or see my last post
U could say Toss imba... cus I fucking cant win a ZvP on HBR... sometimes I kill like 100 probes with my mutas and make like 150 hydras after that but the toss just need to push with 20zealots + 3 archons and 4 HT and im dead... 2 good storm and insta GG.
FUCK TOSS, I was so fucking mad that I played toss my two next matches and guess what.. I WON FUCKING STORM IMBA! U CAN KILL 24 HYDRAS WITH A FUCKING STORM and my other match was a PvT on Othello... LOL IF U WANT I CAN SEND U THE REP BUT LOL TOSS IMBA I WAS SO LOSING BUT GUESS WHAT I MAKE 6 CARRIERS YEAH 6 FUCKING CARRIERS AND SNIPED THE GOLIATH BUILDING THING (THE ONE OF THE UPGRADES) AND I WON.
On September 11 2009 06:33 FranzF1 wrote: U could say Toss imba... cus I fucking cant win a ZvP on HBR... sometimes I kill like 100 probes with my mutas and make like 150 hydras after that but the toss just need to push with 20zealots + 3 archons and 4 HT and im dead... 2 good storm and insta GG.
FUCK TOSS, I was so fucking mad that I played toss my two next matches and guess what.. I WON FUCKING STORM IMBA! U CAN KILL 24 HYDRAS WITH A FUCKING STORM and my other match was a PvT on Othello... LOL IF U WANT I CAN SEND U THE REP BUT LOL TOSS IMBA I WAS SO LOSING BUT GUESS WHAT I MAKE 6 CARRIERS YEAH 6 FUCKING CARRIERS AND SNIPED THE GOLIATH BUILDING THING (THE ONE OF THE UPGRADES) AND I WON.
On September 11 2009 05:29 huameng wrote: I think you will have trouble finding a worse winrate than 45.5% for any race, chill.
rofl terran actually loses to protoss on othello 51%. I'm switching to zerg
ya 44% over this kind of sample is pretty huge.. medusa is about the same.
but it's far from unwinnable and zergs used to struggle with worse percentages against terran for years terrans are whiny
"so i have this unit with infinite mana that can make my units invincible and his units die in 1 hit. nah lets not use that" they deserved those percentages
you can make up funny stuff like that about more terran units than zerg or protoss units e.g. "whoa vultures 75 mineral units fastest in the game kills peons in 2 hits and blows up huge chunx of shit 3 times" I mean wtf a spider mine is more powerful than a scarab, you pay 15 minerals for each of those it's basically like you set 3 remote scarabs and then you have a free vulture for the price of a fucking zergling whoa tanks kill shit from a screen away
although I do agree defilers are the best units in the game, I win most zvt games I play through just rushing for them with hardly any micro or macro required and it works vs players way better than me
Did you vs me yesterday? If so, sorry about the counter when your big ball was attacking my nat and then stop lurking on the path back killing all of your MnM's.
gold thread 5/5 i agree and seriously the other day i got cannon rushed and my marine spawned on the other side of the wall and i cant do SHIT at all cannon plus zlot = auto win = FML
On September 11 2009 07:31 Liquid`Drone wrote: (...)
although I do agree defilers are the best units in the game, I win most zvt games I play through just rushing for them with hardly any micro or macro required and it works vs players way better than me
I was obsing my 2 friends (both C) offracing. One got Z, second one got T. Z went 5 pool, T defended it and made aca+3 raxes on 1 base (yes, it was stupid), Z rushed to defilers, using only few lurkers to prevent T from going out since scans are limited used, by the time he had defilers knocking to T's natural T didn't even begin making vessels. And guess what does it mean to have swarm on your nat w/o vessels. Insta kill, even if it is only like 3 lurkers + defiler + handful of lings as food
oh yea did i forget vultures needs good control we pay for our mines and speed and how shitty are they against goons and hydras might as well talk about how 2 storms kill your whole mining base
On September 11 2009 08:06 geegee1 wrote: oh yea did i forget vultures needs good control we pay for our mines and speed and how shitty are they against goons and hydras might as well talk about how 2 storms kill your whole mining base
yeah but if you lose those hts + shuttle that drop in the mineral line, you lost quite a bit of money
if you lose 4 vultures, thats barely anything in terms of cost
On September 11 2009 08:06 geegee1 wrote: oh yea did i forget vultures needs good control we pay for our mines and speed and how shitty are they against goons and hydras might as well talk about how 2 storms kill your whole mining base
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Shields suck because they take full damage. I'd take repair over recharge anyday. Therefore, I can be protected by a wall and get away unpunished with zero units because I can repair that wall and play greedy while if the other races did the same, their base would get torn up. SCV > Probe, and early early game worker harrass, you lose like, what? 1 worker? Try having 150% health in late/mid game (when it counts) and how much it saves your ass when there are units attacking ur workers and they pop so easily cuz they only have 40 life (which half of it take full damage)
Oh yeah, when did DTs ever 1 shot an SCV? If you lose few DTs, that will put a dent on your gas You lost a few vultures? Oh, so what? They only cost 75 mineral, lets make a billion more and put FREE mines all over the place
O yeah, repair owns because its automatic. OH WAIT YOU HAVE TO MANUALLY REPAIR EVERY UNIT AND BUILDING! You can't get away with zero units, a goon can snipe the shit out of scvs repairing the wall. in late/mid game, reaver and storm STILL rapes scvs despite their extra 20 hp. And if you rush DTs, what can a terran do to kill it? It's not like you can use a vulture/tank like you can use archon/zeal, using splash damage to kill a lurker. Oh what? You laid a million mines and one zealot walks through and one explodes, setting off all of the others and the zeal still has like 50 hp left?
Just because recharge is automatic doesn't mean its better. Actually, do you even know how slow it takes for a unit to recharge its shield? We're talking about a fast-paced macro-fest serious game here, do you really think the game's outcome is going to be slightly affected by shield regeneration? Shield regeneration can't make up for the COST of having shield take FULL damage. No sir
I was exaggerating on the zero unit part because it would be beyond unfair if 1 race can play greedy with 0 units while other race can't do shit to punish, but 1 tank is actually enough to stop 2~3 goons at your door if you have a wall + repair. And that tank isn't even sieged.
Don't compare Reaver + Storm to Vulture harrass, Reaver drops and Storm drops actually cost a handful of gas and investment (robo building, support bay building, tech research, gas cost, shuttle cost) while few vultures that can be used to harrass cost 75 mineral each. You lose a shuttle with 2 reaver, you just lost 600 minerals + 200 gas + scarab mineral cost. That's not including the cost of the Support Bay Building. You lose 5 Vultures? 375 minerals lost, big deal. Someone rushes DT, so what? You react like any other race using cloaked unit, you get detector or turrets. Once mid game hits, Terrans have so many scans that its pretty much maphack anytime
Yeah, in your exaggerated scenario, 1 lone zealot, as unbelievable as it sounds, could trigger a million mines somehow but at the end of the day, that zealot actually cost 100 minerals while 1 million mines cost ZERO minerals
See my point? T is the most cost efficient race. Why else can T with 2 bases compete with P with 3 bases?
i think the question is not why play terran, but why play HBR at all.
I am a protoss players, and I avoid that map, because I think the terran has it easy in that map. Mostly, because I rarely cheese, proxy, or 10/15 gate... once I did a proxy robo with reaver drop, but that is hardly something to worry much about.
Anyway, when the terran moves to the middle in that map, all hell breaks loose. The pathways connecting to the middle are so small, and planting mines there's make it almost impossible to break any push. Terran can easily defend the expos, I find and has an easy time harassing. As soon as they see my arbiter, they plant a shitload of mines in their mains and turrets every possible side wall.
Few games I won, was by recalling mid of map, and even so it is an attack that takes a lot of precisions to synchronize and organize.
Play in another motw. Tau Cross and Gaia are awesome for all races, imo
EDIT: Just wanted to add that those map statistics could be awfully biased. Imagine if only 2 people playing in iccup, By.Flash and I. Obviously, the map statitics for TvP would favor T, and make every map look like a T map. I think because Terran is harder race to play, there are a lot of newb D level terran who cant win a single match pulling down the ratios of Terran in all maps. Zergs just seem to dominate almost everywhere. I guess there are just more good zergs playing in iccup than other races.
On September 11 2009 00:21 AzureEye wrote: Terrans still got something to complain about after having the best win statistics in all broadcasted games played and proven to be the most overpowered race? Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
yeah, guess you'll just have to settle for rechargeable shields, fastest worker attack speed, fastest worker acceleration, fastest mining
OH and instead of being able to 2 shot workers (sometimes) you only have a unit that ONE SHOTS them. Luckily for you its also CLOAKED
Shields suck because they take full damage. I'd take repair over recharge anyday. Therefore, I can be protected by a wall and get away unpunished with zero units because I can repair that wall and play greedy while if the other races did the same, their base would get torn up. SCV > Probe, and early early game worker harrass, you lose like, what? 1 worker? Try having 150% health in late/mid game (when it counts) and how much it saves your ass when there are units attacking ur workers and they pop so easily cuz they only have 40 life (which half of it take full damage)
Oh yeah, when did DTs ever 1 shot an SCV? If you lose few DTs, that will put a dent on your gas You lost a few vultures? Oh, so what? They only cost 75 mineral, lets make a billion more and put FREE mines all over the place
O yeah, repair owns because its automatic. OH WAIT YOU HAVE TO MANUALLY REPAIR EVERY UNIT AND BUILDING! You can't get away with zero units, a goon can snipe the shit out of scvs repairing the wall. in late/mid game, reaver and storm STILL rapes scvs despite their extra 20 hp. And if you rush DTs, what can a terran do to kill it? It's not like you can use a vulture/tank like you can use archon/zeal, using splash damage to kill a lurker. Oh what? You laid a million mines and one zealot walks through and one explodes, setting off all of the others and the zeal still has like 50 hp left?
Just because recharge is automatic doesn't mean its better. Actually, do you even know how slow it takes for a unit to recharge its shield? We're talking about a fast-paced macro-fest serious game here, do you really think the game's outcome is going to be slightly affected by shield regeneration? Shield regeneration can't make up for the COST of having shield take FULL damage. No sir
I was exaggerating on the zero unit part because it would be beyond unfair if 1 race can play greedy with 0 units while other race can't do shit to punish, but 1 tank is actually enough to stop 2~3 goons at your door if you have a wall + repair. And that tank isn't even sieged.
Don't compare Reaver + Storm to Vulture harrass, Reaver drops and Storm drops actually cost a handful of gas and investment (robo building, support bay building, tech research, gas cost, shuttle cost) while few vultures that can be used to harrass cost 75 mineral each. You lose a shuttle with 2 reaver, you just lost 600 minerals + 200 gas + scarab mineral cost. That's not including the cost of the Support Bay Building. You lose 5 Vultures? 375 minerals lost, big deal. Someone rushes DT, so what? You react like any other race using cloaked unit, you get detector or turrets. Once mid game hits, Terrans have so many scans that its pretty much maphack anytime
Yeah, in your exaggerated scenario, 1 lone zealot, as unbelievable as it sounds, could trigger a million mines somehow but at the end of the day, that zealot actually cost 100 minerals while 1 million mines cost ZERO minerals
See my point? T is the most cost efficient race. Why else can T with 2 bases compete with P with 3 bases?
do you guys realize those are the small things that help balance the races out?
Each race has their own set of benefits, and they are all equally strong.
You pick a race based on which set of units you like to control best. If you think vultures are such a cool, powerful and cost efficient unit, go play Terran. If you think that HT and reaver drops can own the shit of any player, go for Protoss. If you think that cracklings + defiler = ggnore, go for Zerg.
All of them have a lot of window of opportunities to harm the opponent.
I play Protoss cuz they have ninjas, pirates and wizards. That's just as cool as it gets. Though you could argue that Terran has all the girls >_< Now, that is imba~!
well, perfect balance is obviously impossible to achieve with non-mirrored conditions (and is hence impossible in non-mirror match-ups), but SC generally comes close enough
that being said, I don't think HBR is terrible, but I'm certainly not a big fan either
On September 11 2009 10:36 LuckyFool wrote: Bring back hitchhiker. I miss that sexy map so much. Of course shit like that never ever ever gets as popular as a map like HBR. OF COURSE NOT.
but thats a two player map with a cliff over your natural.
On September 11 2009 05:26 LuckyFool wrote: I said in my OP and I'll say it again; I don't give a flying shit what the progaming stats are on the map. I'm a B- terran and I lose WAY more on that map than other maps. This is all that matters. progaming stats on the map mean about as much to me as what you ate for breakfast this morning- zilch.
It's as simple as that. You can stats hunt and argue until your blue in the face, the map is fucking imba and extremely difficult for terran laddering early in the season on iccup at D+ ranks.
Every map is hard this early in the season at D+ ranks. Not sure why you think it's the map's fault.
On September 11 2009 05:26 LuckyFool wrote: I said in my OP and I'll say it again; I don't give a flying shit what the progaming stats are on the map. I'm a B- terran and I lose WAY more on that map than other maps. This is all that matters. progaming stats on the map mean about as much to me as what you ate for breakfast this morning- zilch.
It's as simple as that. You can stats hunt and argue until your blue in the face, the map is fucking imba and extremely difficult for terran laddering early in the season on iccup at D+ ranks.
Every map is hard this early in the season at D+ ranks. Not sure why you think it's the map's fault.
All I know is if I play 30 games on desti I easily have a winning record. If I play 30 games on HBR I go 5-25. Hard to not think it's the maps fault.
Yeah, very T>P It's "turtle or die" kind of map. Because every protoss with a little PvT experience on this map will build spotting pylons and use observers to prevent drop play
I love the haters, (aka non T's) random statements with no facts to back it up. I say ur all just a buncha skilless newbies scared shitless of all the real men (T's) who play this game. Thus u all just try to bring us down.
HBR being a "hard" map just makes me want to play it more actually I've been playing HBR like 80% of my ladder games now.
On September 11 2009 05:26 LuckyFool wrote: I said in my OP and I'll say it again; I don't give a flying shit what the progaming stats are on the map. I'm a B- terran and I lose WAY more on that map than other maps. This is all that matters. progaming stats on the map mean about as much to me as what you ate for breakfast this morning- zilch.
It's as simple as that. You can stats hunt and argue until your blue in the face, the map is fucking imba and extremely difficult for terran laddering early in the season on iccup at D+ ranks.
Every map is hard this early in the season at D+ ranks. Not sure why you think it's the map's fault.
All I know is if I play 30 games on desti I easily have a winning record. If I play 30 games on HBR I go 5-25. Hard to not think it's the maps fault.
Why don't you play one of the 4 other motw? Neo medusa not balanced enough for you either?
On September 12 2009 00:53 LuckyFool wrote: I love the haters, (aka non T's) random statements with no facts to back it up. I say ur all just a buncha skilless newbies scared shitless of all the real men (T's) who play this game. Thus u all just try to bring us down.
HBR being a "hard" map just makes me want to play it more actually I've been playing HBR like 80% of my ladder games now.
This is the terran philosophy. We don't play terran because we think its the easiest. We play terran because we have self-respect
On September 12 2009 00:53 LuckyFool wrote: I love the haters, (aka non T's) random statements with no facts to back it up. I say ur all just a buncha skilless newbies scared shitless of all the real men (T's) who play this game. Thus u all just try to bring us down.
HBR being a "hard" map just makes me want to play it more actually I've been playing HBR like 80% of my ladder games now.
This is the terran philosophy. We don't play terran because we think its the easiest. We play terran because we have self-respect
Damn straight. Idra has said a number of times - it's the satisfaction of playing the hardest race. also
Yeah, very T>P It's "turtle or die" kind of map. Because every protoss with a little PvT experience on this map will build spotting pylons and use observers to prevent drop play
Statistics schmatistics. T has like the worst winning ratio in ~98% of ALL iccup maps, playing vs Protoss and Zerg alike. You can assume it is the player's fault, rather than the maps fault. Terran players at D, D- rank are an easy walk over for anyone, imo. Terran is the hardest to play if you are a beginner.
I think your guts and analytical skills are a far better teller of the truth than statistics.
Imo, Destination is a map that favors a lot of static play. There are pretty much 5 pathways dividing the map, where 2 of them kind of clog together. Fighting in the bridges is hard for both Terran and Protoss alike. Protoss cant flank, and Terran has a hard time setting units up to mobilize past the middle bridge. Both players will probably try to get control of their side of the map asap, while preventing the other from cornering them inside the natural. Both will probably try hard to prevent any set up behind the natural. I think the terran will have the best shot at targeting the back of the base, once it controls one of the middle side cliffs.
I think the protoss has a motivation to expand to the cliff third base, and the terran to the bridge third base (tanks from main can protect the bridge) and its a strategical position to move towards the middle side cliff.
The protoss by taking the cliff third base, can then easily protect the back of the main as well as getting a 4th base easily (mineral only).
Id expect a lot of carrier and divided map, in Destination, a bit like Nostalgia. But in any case, I really dont see what points in this map favors protoss over terran? Proxy cheese?
On September 12 2009 00:53 LuckyFool wrote: I love the haters, (aka non T's) random statements with no facts to back it up. I say ur all just a buncha skilless newbies scared shitless of all the real men (T's) who play this game. Thus u all just try to bring us down.
HBR being a "hard" map just makes me want to play it more actually I've been playing HBR like 80% of my ladder games now.
This is the terran philosophy. We don't play terran because we think its the easiest. We play terran because we have self-respect
Damn straight. Idra has said a number of times - it's the satisfaction of playing the hardest race. also
I used to play Terran because they are humans, and they have the COOLEST theme song. It really pumps me up. I have a lot of respect for Terran players, I know how much harder it is to play (though they TvZ kind of easy...)
Then one day I decided to play random, and notice I had a good win ratio PvZ, so I switched to Toss. After all, if I could easily beat Zergs, the other protoss MU are no problem, right?
On September 12 2009 00:53 LuckyFool wrote: I love the haters, (aka non T's) random statements with no facts to back it up. I say ur all just a buncha skilless newbies scared shitless of all the real men (T's) who play this game. Thus u all just try to bring us down.
HBR being a "hard" map just makes me want to play it more actually I've been playing HBR like 80% of my ladder games now.
This is the terran philosophy. We don't play terran because we think its the easiest. We play terran because we have self-respect
hahaha actually, i think you play terran so you can justify your awfulness at sc by telling yourself you play terran
On September 12 2009 05:19 Leath wrote: Statistics schmatistics. T has like the worst winning ratio in ~98% of ALL iccup maps, playing vs Protoss and Zerg alike. You can assume it is the player's fault, rather than the maps fault. Terran players at D, D- rank are an easy walk over for anyone, imo. Terran is the hardest to play if you are a beginner.
On September 12 2009 00:53 LuckyFool wrote: I love the haters, (aka non T's) random statements with no facts to back it up. I say ur all just a buncha skilless newbies scared shitless of all the real men (T's) who play this game. Thus u all just try to bring us down.
HBR being a "hard" map just makes me want to play it more actually I've been playing HBR like 80% of my ladder games now.
This is the terran philosophy. We don't play terran because we think its the easiest. We play terran because we have self-respect
hahaha actually, i think you play terran so you can justify your awfulness at sc by telling yourself you play terran
On September 12 2009 05:19 Leath wrote: Statistics schmatistics. T has like the worst winning ratio in ~98% of ALL iccup maps, playing vs Protoss and Zerg alike. You can assume it is the player's fault, rather than the maps fault. Terran players at D, D- rank are an easy walk over for anyone, imo. Terran is the hardest to play if you are a beginner.
So basically we're talking imbalance
hmm.. I wouldn't call it imbalance, just that terran takes a little bit more time to learn
This is my favorite map to play as Terran or Protoss. Unique timing and harassment options, especially since many of the cases both players end up getting just 3 gas or a mineral only, and even when a 4th base is established, it ends up being a hotly contested area...plus that spot can be used to ferry in drops and simultaneously while going through the 3rd gas 2nd expansion area, dropping back and forth between cliffs..real nice manipulation there.
I love all these Terran douches like Sadistx, LuckyFool, and Fusiondf who try to justify that their race is the hardest to play. Actually its not
For example, take a simple clash of Protoss Army vs Terran army. You all might say Toss is so easy 1a2a3a and just win, but if you do that, Siege tanks and mines will rape all ur goons and zealots
Thats why Protoss needs to Flank, Storm, Stasis, Zealot-bomb, mine drag while Terran simply needs to lay mines in front (press i ) and siege up (press o ). Build some cost efficient turrets and you're good to go
You need to look ahead? Oh no worries, I got some maphack called scan. Oh he upgraded? It's okay, my 1 upgrade is enough to cancel out 2.5 of his upgrades
Terran is the easiest race to play at high level. Everything you have is pretty much overpowered so please no more of these threads please. You all got nothing to whine about
On September 12 2009 11:00 AzureEye wrote: I love all these Terran douches like Sadistx, LuckyFool, and Fusiondf who try to justify that their race is the hardest to play. Actually its not
For example, take a simple clash of Protoss Army vs Terran army. You all might say Toss is so easy 1a2a3a and just win, but if you do that, Siege tanks and mines will rape all ur goons and zealots
Thats why Protoss needs to Flank, Storm, Stasis, Zealot-bomb, mine drag while Terran simply needs to lay mines in front (press i ) and siege up (press o ). Build some cost efficient turrets and you're good to go
You need to look ahead? Oh no worries, I got some maphack called scan. Oh he upgraded? It's okay, my 1 upgrade is enough to cancel out 2.5 of his upgrades
Terran is the easiest race to play at high level. Everything you have is pretty much overpowered so please no more of these threads please. You all got nothing to whine about
I agree completely with AzureEye... put some tanks on top of those ridges and some mines and protoss is fucked...your zealots get raped and then your goons cant even do anything i swear its gay as shit just try it...
And those vulture runbyes...they're so fast that they can get in and out without much hassle...
actually xel naga is the hardest race to play, i mean common just think about it for one damn second and you will realize that your race is easy compared to theirs.
On September 12 2009 11:33 CosmicAC wrote: I agree completely with AzureEye... put some tanks on top of those ridges and some mines and protoss is fucked...your zealots get raped and then your goons cant even do anything i swear its gay as shit just try it...
And those vulture runbyes...they're so fast that they can get in and out without much hassle...
On September 12 2009 11:00 AzureEye wrote: I love all these Terran douches like Sadistx, LuckyFool, and Fusiondf who try to justify that their race is the hardest to play. Actually its not
For example, take a simple clash of Protoss Army vs Terran army. You all might say Toss is so easy 1a2a3a and just win, but if you do that, Siege tanks and mines will rape all ur goons and zealots
Thats why Protoss needs to Flank, Storm, Stasis, Zealot-bomb, mine drag while Terran simply needs to lay mines in front (press i ) and siege up (press o ). Build some cost efficient turrets and you're good to go
You need to look ahead? Oh no worries, I got some maphack called scan. Oh he upgraded? It's okay, my 1 upgrade is enough to cancel out 2.5 of his upgrades
Terran is the easiest race to play at high level. Everything you have is pretty much overpowered so please no more of these threads please. You all got nothing to whine about
You're probably the greatest anti-terran troll of all time on TL. Keep it up.
why the fuck are all the "other races are so imba" whiners terrans these days? zvt is near impossible on hbr b/c of all the chokes and ledges, if you don't know how to type bt 10 times in a row thats your own problem
On September 12 2009 16:52 iamho wrote: why the fuck are all the "other races are so imba" whiners terrans these days? zvt is near impossible on hbr b/c of all the chokes and ledges, if you don't know how to type bt 10 times in a row thats your own problem
really? how about you don't fight them at the chokes, back door? muta harrass better. turret placement is hard and they neeeeed so many. such a fun map.
On September 12 2009 23:59 KawaiiRice wrote: Choke + Swarm?
Lol...
no doubt.
And the vally's are so narrow you can just push with swarm and T can't flank or go around, forced to just head back to nat where u get clusterfucked in 5 seconds.
On September 12 2009 11:00 AzureEye wrote: I love all these Terran douches like Sadistx, LuckyFool, and Fusiondf who try to justify that their race is the hardest to play. Actually its not
For example, take a simple clash of Protoss Army vs Terran army. You all might say Toss is so easy 1a2a3a and just win, but if you do that, Siege tanks and mines will rape all ur goons and zealots
Thats why Protoss needs to Flank, Storm, Stasis, Zealot-bomb, mine drag while Terran simply needs to lay mines in front (press i ) and siege up (press o ). Build some cost efficient turrets and you're good to go
You need to look ahead? Oh no worries, I got some maphack called scan. Oh he upgraded? It's okay, my 1 upgrade is enough to cancel out 2.5 of his upgrades
Terran is the easiest race to play at high level. Everything you have is pretty much overpowered so please no more of these threads please. You all got nothing to whine about
watch turn vs moon then we will talk about how easy it is in the high level
I think Asians is the imbalanced race. Blizzard should patch the Asians to even them out, remove some APM, or add some sort of crazy clairvoyance to all foreigners so we can compete.
On September 13 2009 02:07 Leath wrote: I think Asians is the imbalanced race. Blizzard should patch the Asians to even them out, remove some APM, or add some sort of crazy clairvoyance to all foreigners so we can compete.
On September 13 2009 05:34 geegee1 wrote: i also forgot observers are permanent cheap and can dector stuff if you talking about terran map hack dont be talking since observers are everywhere
Nothing you just said is true. It's useful to coat the map in observers, but every 2 observers are one ht, and good terrans build turrets everywhere it's worthwhile to observe and deny it pretty easily, or at the very least force you to take them off patrol and make many many more. They aren't really cheap at all, and you always need a few with your army, and they don't do anything like the Vessel does (emp/defense) so it's useless to get two robos. You can also see the thing move and snipe it with goliaths/rine with a scan.
This season, I resolved to get some 1:1 games in, and try to improve my mechanical rythym and gamesense.
Vs protoss, I thought sometimes, I'd be too greedy. I get my CC in main at like 20 something, then float it over as I mass 5-6 rines with some tanks, and siege on the way.
This is the part where I get steam rolled by mass goons. If I siege up before pushing into my own nat, it helps, but somehow, I still die as I move out.
It also probably isn't helping that I usually play during those Korean hours. So far, I'm like 0-15 this season. ~_~
On September 13 2009 05:34 geegee1 wrote: i also forgot observers are permanent cheap and can dector stuff if you talking about terran map hack dont be talking since observers are everywhere
Nothing you just said is true. It's useful to coat the map in observers, but every 2 observers are one ht, and good terrans build turrets everywhere it's worthwhile to observe and deny it pretty easily, or at the very least force you to take them off patrol and make many many more. They aren't really cheap at all, and you always need a few with your army, and they don't do anything like the Vessel does (emp/defense) so it's useless to get two robos. You can also see the thing move and snipe it with goliaths/rine with a scan.
i probably wont reach vessels stage if every toss wants to cheese me every game im trying to get a standard game all day and all i get is annoying toss cheese
On September 12 2009 11:00 AzureEye wrote: I love all these Terran douches like Sadistx, LuckyFool, and Fusiondf who try to justify that their race is the hardest to play. Actually its not
For example, take a simple clash of Protoss Army vs Terran army. You all might say Toss is so easy 1a2a3a and just win, but if you do that, Siege tanks and mines will rape all ur goons and zealots
Thats why Protoss needs to Flank, Storm, Stasis, Zealot-bomb, mine drag while Terran simply needs to lay mines in front (press i ) and siege up (press o ). Build some cost efficient turrets and you're good to go
You need to look ahead? Oh no worries, I got some maphack called scan. Oh he upgraded? It's okay, my 1 upgrade is enough to cancel out 2.5 of his upgrades
Terran is the easiest race to play at high level. Everything you have is pretty much overpowered so please no more of these threads please. You all got nothing to whine about
I disagree on the bolded part very much
I think I've read it in GTR's blog, about a guy called new Nal_Ra after his 3 dts did a minedrag that killed like 25vults and 10tanks... I'd like to see this game one day ;P
On September 13 2009 22:45 Manifesto7 wrote: Just for you my terran brother, from the D ranks.
The Toss guy had 100 supply when you had 150. His supply wasn't down because of the initial vulture drop because it barely did any damage, its just the skill level difference
He is clearly D level but you seem to be D+ at least
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/getoverit.png)
![[image loading]](http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6679/chillsatool.png)
![[image loading]](http://i27.tinypic.com/sq4cwn.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://209.85.62.26/12390/191/emo/rage.gif)
Sigh when will people stop being so ungrateful! I would fucking cry tears of joy when my workers have 150% health than other races while my harrassing unit can 2 shot every worker
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/66xHY.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.repdepot.net/img/thumbs/20981.jpg)
