i like both, but i sorta wish the banshees were buffed in another way, so that they could actually be a part of a terran army instead of just being a harassing unit.

imJealous

United States1371 Posts

July 09 2013 03:11 GMT

As much as I hate hellbats, they are something new that shook up the game and I feel like this change will just straight up end their use all together. Would have preferred removal of their healing 100x. On top of that I'm really not looking forward to a resurgence of incredibly lame cloak banshee rush strategies in ZvT because they are never a good game... either I scout and counter it and the game is over or they catch me by surprise and the game is over... was fun the first five times back in 2010 but now I'd like to actually play games out -.-

That said, I still voted somewhat approve

Sherklok

United States34 Posts

July 09 2013 03:14 GMT

As much as a slight hellbat nerf was needed for tvt the banshee buff won't fix the matchup.

ladysman09

237 Posts

July 09 2013 03:51 GMT

Now terran has no good or reliable harass units against Zerg.

KrazyTrumpet

United States2520 Posts

July 09 2013 04:11 GMT

I think the hellbat change doesn't really solve the core problem of hellbats, and the banshee change is -_-

Really not a fan of this patch, but something really had to be done about TvT.

Advantageous

China1129 Posts

July 09 2013 04:12 GMT

banshee needs a research timer inc imo

DavoS

United States1909 Posts

July 09 2013 04:29 GMT

The Banshee change is gonna make me have to relearn a bunch of timings for my TvZ, but it's worth it to have something other than hellbat drops in TvT

Sunshinewalker

Germany32 Posts

July 09 2013 06:47 GMT

The hellbat change is good, although i would have preferred removing the biotag aswell. The banshee change though just takes decision making out of the game, since you won't ever not research cloak anymore if you build a banshee. Maybe they could give banshees another upgrade or utility spell that makes them more useful lategame/in your army.

asdfOu

United States2086 Posts

July 09 2013 09:14 GMT

i think that banshee buff is a bit too extreme

BlackPanther

United States871 Posts

July 09 2013 09:28 GMT

#10

On July 09 2013 12:11 imJealous wrote:
As much as I hate hellbats, they are something new that shook up the game and I feel like this change will just straight up end their use all together. Would have preferred removal of their healing 100x.

Hellbat usage will drop in TvP for sure but should remain the same in the other matchups in the mid / late game. Removing healing would have guaranteed no one using it ever again.

Fus

Sweden1104 Posts

July 09 2013 09:34 GMT

#11

On July 09 2013 12:51 ladysman09 wrote:
Now terran has no good or reliable harass units against Zerg.

Marine drops are pretty reliable imo

Thor.Rush

Sweden699 Posts

July 09 2013 12:48 GMT

#12

I somewhat approve, but this takes us back to WoL TvP

guN-viCe

United States678 Posts

July 09 2013 15:37 GMT

#13

Banshee are a great harass unit, and a very good fighting unit.

Stacked banshee are very dangerous.

I'm excited..

Sianos

580 Posts

July 09 2013 16:26 GMT

#14

I really like it. Hellbat drops were boring to watch and a simple unit for only 100 minerals shouldn´t be able to kill all my scvs if I react one second too late

Also banshees will become popular again in TvT. It´s a good space control unit and easily pays for itself. Imagine you build 2 banshees with cloak (400 minerals, 300 gas), you only need to kill 8 marines/scvs to get the minerals back + your opponent needs to build turrets and use scans. The banshee vs marine micro was always more fun to watch than watching scvs running away from hellbats.

I hope they also implement a space control unit for TvP, because I really like those early exchanges for map control :D The reaper changes were a good start but I feel it´s more like a scouting unit than a space control unit since a stalker can chase a reaper away. I would like some sort of change to make concussive marrauder openings viable for tvp. The only thing that comes into my mind would be to remove the requirement of an ebay for turrets combined with a slight buff for oracles, so that marrauders and oracles could also be used as space control units.

Amestir

Netherlands2123 Posts

July 09 2013 21:47 GMT

#15

I suddenly remebered that I hate cloacked banshees even more then hellbats. But for the sake of TvT this is still good.

renlynn

United States276 Posts

July 10 2013 01:45 GMT

#16

I was hoping they'd nerf medivac speed boost, like giving it an actual cost or something, but will see how this turns out I guess

LowEloPlayer

United States198 Posts

July 10 2013 03:18 GMT

#17

the hellbat nerf is strange to be honest... the early game harass really wasn't the problem because people were able to fend it off. Now hellbat drops are basically completely useless because getting 3 shots off drones when the hellbats are that slow is improbable against any decent player. And hellbat drops were the main way to tech to hellbat because it keeps you safe (they can't attack because you have the threat always lingering) so it'll be a lot harder to tech to hellbats now and thus use them with their option of drops becoming obsolete. and the banshee... I really don't know the rationale behind that. It seems blizzard were kinda like 'oh we nerfed hellbats, let's just give them some random buff. Oh, banshee's aren't being used that often! Let's buff them somehow... hmmm... why not just lower cloak cost! Brilliant!!" not really sure what it's going to do. It'll make teching to cloak on 1 base a lot easier but really, who does that anymore. On two base it helps a little bit of course but it's nothing game changing, ESPECIALLY since siege tech doesn't need 100/100 after hots. Overall I think the changes are weird. Usually I say "oh but let's just see how it plays out since that will be the ultimate test" but for these changes I'm not sure if i can really say that. i just don't see the rationale.

boxerfred

Germany8350 Posts

July 10 2013 09:14 GMT

#18

The banshee buff wasn't neceressary at all.

Pandahunterz

Netherlands74 Posts

July 10 2013 10:15 GMT

#19

blizz wanted to decrease the amount of hellbat drops as 99% of TvT use hellbat drops and in over half of them the succes of the drops gives a lead resulting in the win. As banshee and drops are both made from the starport the idea of blizz was to make hellbats less strong, while at the same time making the alternative (banshee) better. Theoretically people will now also choose for banshee's at early game, making them unable to do hellbat drops too. dunno for sure if it will work yet, and alot of other changes would have been better than this one imo, but a nerf to hellbatdrops were needed and a buff to and alternative to make sure terran wouldn't get too weak, so something had to be done, therefore I think the change was better than leaving it the way it was, but i would like to see them working on a better solution before the next major patch.

Aulisemia

United States121 Posts

July 10 2013 11:25 GMT

#20

I think the Hellbat changes are completely fine and should have their intended effect. I don't think that the Banshee buff is required at all and you'll see the majority of Terrans opening with it for harass, not any different than having every Terran open Hellbats.

The goal should be a variety of different openings being completely viable, not shoehorning into one great harass strategy.