EPTUS Politics Feedback Thread - Page 301
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11928 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7811 Posts
On June 27 2020 01:08 Nebuchad wrote: Do you think what makes Lenin bad (or even, worth mentioning) was the anticapitalism? Probably the fact that basically revolutions inspired by literal, à la lettre marxism ended with various combos of massacres, deportations, starvations, dictatorship and were generally speaking miserable failures. And I am not saying that there is nothing to learn from Marx - although I think there are more interesting philosophers, and economists - to read. But to just regurgitate marxism orthodoxy as if none of that had been tried makes zero sense to me. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland11928 Posts
Now, of course, nothing I've said was antidemocratic, so you have an issue there. I literally do not advocate for a revolution. The system that you prefer has more authoritarianism within it, with bosses deciding what happens in their companies with their own profit in mind rather than the good of everyone in the company, than the system I prefer, where there is democracy in the workplace. I could call you an authoritarian for it - you know, if I was silly. I'm technically not even a marxist (lol), but then again, I don't think Marx was either so I'll let that one slide. | ||
tofucake
Hyrule18979 Posts
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ChristianS
United States3187 Posts
See you soon GH, hope a couple days away from that thread does your mental health good (it probably would mine). | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22720 Posts
On July 01 2020 11:21 JimmiC wrote: I took this out of the politics thread because it didn't belong there. I would respond via PM but I would be scared of you starting a drama that I'm harassing you. I've learned it is best to put it out in the open. I was pointing out your hyperbole by picking the most obvious measurable, from 0-1. And the soap box comment was about how you were again straw manning and putting yourself above others as the morale authority on racism and politics. I had read enough of your posts to know you were full of shit. + Show Spoiler + The thing is that you made it even clearer when it came to Venezuela. You spend a good 80% of your time both sidesing on the USpol and trying to point out how bad the dems are and that people are too partisan to notice. And then at the same time you, some times within minutes, are saying Maduro is is justified in shooting unarmed Indigenous people going for food because it is a coup and the US is sneaking arms in with the food. The coup never happened and yet you still believe it did. Basically if Trump's party was named the socialist party of America, you would believe all his tweets, that the capitalist class (deep state) was behind everything bad. And the protesters were not the upset people but that they are agents of the capitalist class (antifa). Heck you at one point were calling the refugee's that number in the millions part of the capitalist class. When the police killed people, it would be justified because they were agents of capitalism. (in reality the FAES killed SO many more than the US police its not even funny, but them you support https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/venezuela-violence-police-faes/) And so on, it is why it irks me when you go all Holier than thou, all the while supporting and defending some of the worst humans on the planet. If you ever held the authoritarian's that call themselves socialists despite their lack of socialist policies accountable it would at least give you the slightest bit of credibility. There is no authenticity to what you write. You still have some who believe you are a victim of others and not a victim of your continued awful behavior. You only treat a select few with any grace, people who you consider elites. Which is actually kind of fitting since the governments you support also only take care of a select few elites while blaming all their problems on others. There will be people who come and go on the US pol threads, but one thing will remain constant as it has since you started posting, you will find some one to blame for why you're being a jerk, it won't be your fault. You can try to blame me all you want, but whether I'm posting or not you find a way to get into fights. I believe the count is now at 5 (or like 9 if you count all the different people) that I have done the experiment and you have delivered. The you and Biff is a decent example but he is punching back as you are straw manning his posts and dodging his straight forward questions that thank goodness others are able to answer. So it is not as obvious as it was when you were calling Uldridge, SR18, ChistianS, Falling and so on all bad faith for asking you questions about a topic you should be a expert on, want to talk about, and you had nothing but insults and condescension. The best analogy I can give is you know how people who cheat on their partners are always accusing their partners of cheating because they do it they think everyone is doing it. This is you and arguing in bad faith. There is not a constant supply of bad faith posters on the TL politics thread. But there is a endless supply of people (for at least what 5 years?) that you accuse and insult. This would lead any unbiased person to the conclusion that you are the problem. If someone did one of those boards they show on crime TV with the strings out to each connection for every bit of drama on the USpol thread it would become extremely obvious that you were at the center and had by far the most connections often to people who sit left of you on many issues. To reiterate it is not your politics I or almost anyone else have a problem with. For the most part we don't even really know what they are past the slogans. It is how you constantly strawman to the worst possible assumption and then treat that assumption like a fact while being a complete jerk to whoever. Often disregarding entire posts while arguing one sentence minus the context that surrounds it. Not going to rehash this (or Venezuela wth?) with you but I think this is useful. I was pointing out your hyperbole by picking the most obvious measurable, from 0-1. And the soap box comment was about how you were again straw manning and putting yourself above others as the morale authority on racism and politics. I had read enough of your posts to know you were full of shit. knowing that's what was behind it makes it look more bad faith, not less imo. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22720 Posts
On July 01 2020 11:43 JimmiC wrote: Of course it does, because you always assume the worst and treat it as fact and ignore actual facts if it does not fit your narrative. You asked I answered, im part of the everyone but you club who does so when asked.a question. The hope was that distanced from the moment, and in the current context of BLM actions, folks would more clearly see why your answer was offensively dismissive of the premise and not emblematic of good-faith engagement So that if I was hostile, it was actually a reflection of hostility they might not have perceived, but was there (even if unintended by you). That's not an excuse if I was hostile (I think I was dismissive amid a slew of other hostile arguments I was fielding), which to be fair is still not something I'm proud of but I thought fair in the moment. It's a point that's particularly resonate since it's being highlighted in the context of how men behave around women and how being outside the group that is targeted has an inhibiting impact on their perspective. So much so that behavior meant to be neutral or even positive is actually highly negative. I don't really care about settling all that other stuff with you, but I would really like to settle this particular part that seems at the root of it. So the "others" in the post was an appeal to level headed folks that could help parse that so that you could stop with what you've been doing for everyone's sake. EDIT: I should add for some additional context that "but the president/AG is/was Black" was a popular but offensive Republican refrain to dispute that racism was still a problem in the US. One I had argued against pretty thoroughly several times. Once in particular after xDaunt asserted specifically that racism was no longer a major problem deserving of significant attention. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22720 Posts
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Jealous
10098 Posts
Pic relevant. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/MpbGqVU.png) | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22720 Posts
On July 01 2020 12:42 Jealous wrote: I'm not even sure if this topic is even worth discussing anymore, to be honest. All regular posters/readers are aware of it, GH has certainly been made aware of it, and the mods are aware of it. Whenever GH crosses the line a bit too far, he gets slapped for it, as does everyone else. Report and move on, I guess, is my suggestion. The constant arguments in this thread haven't really generated any consistently positive outcomes, from what I could tell. + Show Spoiler + Pic relevant. It is strange to me you are so invested in my posting in a thread you don't even contribute to? You're consistently here to shitpost about how hopeless I am/the situation is with seemingly no intention of good-faith engagement. It's a strange hill to die on imo. For context some may be missing, Jealous has ostensibly innocuously articulated arguments for how the last few alt-right folks that have been banned/demoted or whatever might have been unaware of the problematic nature of their posting. Could be coincidence, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't suspicious. Could be irony I didn't get for instance. | ||
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Jealous
10098 Posts
On July 01 2020 12:48 GreenHorizons wrote: It is strange to me you are so invested in my posting in a thread you don't even contribute to? You're consistently here to shitpost about how hopeless I am/the situation is with seemingly no intention of good-faith engagement. It's a strange hill to die on imo. No one's dying on any hill. In fact, nothing about what I said above paints you as "hopeless," and in fact I am suggesting that we cease the topic of your posting or your disagreements with JimmiC altogether instead of piling onto it. I can see how you might interpret my last statement as being reflective of that, but what I meant was that you and JimmiC talking about each other's posting habits hasn't led to any resolutions between you two, and thus no progress in your personal dynamic, which often clouds both this thread and the main. This brings me to addressing your other point, which is that I don't contribute to that other thread. You're right, I don't. I enjoy reading it and hearing other people's opinions, and I am not very politically involved so I think it better to not participate given that I am not very well-informed on many of the common topics. In fact, I read it so that I could be somewhat better informed - when, of course, it doesn't devolve into garbage. Not gonna get baited any further either, deuces oov | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22720 Posts
On July 01 2020 12:57 Jealous wrote: No one's dying on any hill. In fact, nothing about what I said above paints you as "hopeless," and in fact I am suggesting that we cease the topic of your posting or your disagreements with JimmiC altogether instead of piling onto it. I can see how you might interpret my last statement as being reflective of that, but what I meant was that you and JimmiC talking about each other's posting habits hasn't led to any resolutions between you two, and thus no progress in your personal dynamic, which often clouds both this thread and the main. This brings me to addressing your other point, which is that I don't contribute to that other thread. You're right, I don't. I enjoy reading it and hearing other people's opinions, and I am not very politically involved so I think it better to not participate given that I am not very well-informed on many of the common topics. In fact, I read it so that I could be somewhat better informed - when, of course, it doesn't devolve into garbage. Not gonna get baited any further either, deuces oov It's mostly your repeated arguments (the pic helps) to get me permed from which I draw the inference that you think not only resolving the dispute with JimmiC is hopeless but my continued participation in the US politics thread (which I was noting as odd for someone who doesn't contribute to it). If the purpose was to just opine that since you see resolution between JimmiC and I as hopeless and that it should just never be discussed I disagree, but that's a relatively reasonable disagreement. If the latter scenario is indeed the case, I apologize for my confusion. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8929 Posts
But there is still way to many non-answers, abusive insinuations, blatant dismissals, and general assholery for the thread to stay on track. Bringing in personal anecdotes and accusing posters here of being complacent or even complicit in your demise is ludicrous on so many levels I can't believe I even read it. There's too much high horsing, man in the castle, etc going on. If you can't argue your own point well enough or can't explain it succinctly without calling in other people to fight your battles, don't pick them. It's nauseating having to wait for IgnE or Farva to clarify points because people are too lazy to respond or too embarrassed to admit they don't know what the hell they're talking about. Even the lurkers that chime in get snapped on or picked for a side they didn't want to be part of. The thread isn't anyone's personal playpen or sandbox. It's a community and if you don't like it, then don't participate. You don't get to make the rules of what is discussed, who can have the discussion, and you certainly can't claim people are ignorant for not knowing your positions on topics when they're never really explained. The source we are reading is you. You have to communicate your and by extension, other ideas effectively well enough. If you cannot, then again, do not participate with the only goal to be negative. There's enough of that in the real world, why drag it in here? My 2 yen. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
I've travelled around more than most in the thread, and experienced many different cultures and thought I would add my personal thoughts and experiences to the discussion. But as soon as I saw how toxic it became from the GH crowd, I deleted what I wrote and declined to add anything. And I am glad I did, because in doing so, I would experience what Biff experienced but worse. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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brian
United States9610 Posts
Biff did not act even remotely similarly to GH and to insinuate otherwise is disingenuous. Can you just stop being such a fucking douchebag? is some next level bullshit. defend it as you will. (sorry, on edit i misquoted this bit, now shown below.) when the thread was reopened the first rule was no personal insults, and that post is nothing but. and it’s over the top and rude as shit. it is vastly different to insult ones position, than it is to insult the person. and even if it weren’t, to compare them is still off the mark. that post is shameful. on the off chance some are reading this without context, or god forbid arguing in favor of it without even having read it : On July 01 2020 07:20 Biff The Understudy wrote: Here is the real question, GH, why do you so consistently need to be such a fucking douchebag? I came here to answer someone who was not you and I use my field because, yeah, culture is my business you see. So I am interested. And the discussion is pretty darn interesting, whether it's Inge answers, or Drone's or whoever. And when you started posting, I was really ready to engage in a civil dialogue and hear your take on the question even though the three last times we have exchanged you have been such a complete douche. But then again, you come with your shitty attitude, and you transform what could be a nice discussion into a shitshow of insults, insinuation and of course, you don't give answers to anything because it's so much more fun to instead attack people. As you always do. It's a pity because I like this thread, and I like the people on this thread and you make it a genuinely unpleasant experience. Just talk like a civilized person if that's not too much to ask. Christ sake. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Jealous
10098 Posts
I'm re-reading the thread while trying to put myself in Biff's shoes, for example, as a result of the above posts. In doing so, I'm understanding more and more why Biff might have gotten frustrated enough to make such a post. It certainly didn't come out of nowhere. Do I think it's entirely justified? Definitely not the language used, but overall, I can understand why it was made. | ||
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