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On September 19 2019 03:52 KwarK wrote:
There are no shortage of white supremacist forums out there if you’d like to go evangelize them. You don’t need tl to host them and divert forum space from the discussion of the subject of the topic for that.
I don't get to choose where people go or do not go. If his line of conversation was merely off-topic, that in itself is not a bannable offense as far as I know? You yourself willingly engaged in the discourse as did numerous others, so arguing this point is hypocritical. I'm merely suggesting an alternative approach to the interaction that you already had.
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United States43829 Posts
On September 19 2019 04:03 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 03:52 KwarK wrote:
There are no shortage of white supremacist forums out there if you’d like to go evangelize them. You don’t need tl to host them and divert forum space from the discussion of the subject of the topic for that. I don't get to choose where people go or do not go. If his line of conversation was merely off-topic, that in itself is not a bannable offense as far as I know? You yourself willingly engaged in the discourse as did numerous others, so arguing this point is hypocritical. I'm merely suggesting an alternative approach to the interaction that you already had.
And I’m refuting the idea that the ban caused a lost opportunity to debate white supremacy with white supremacists. That opportunity still exists. If anyone believes that it would be a productive use of their time they are more than welcome to do it, but they can do it somewhere else.
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On September 19 2019 04:27 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 04:03 Jealous wrote:On September 19 2019 03:52 KwarK wrote:
There are no shortage of white supremacist forums out there if you’d like to go evangelize them. You don’t need tl to host them and divert forum space from the discussion of the subject of the topic for that. I don't get to choose where people go or do not go. If his line of conversation was merely off-topic, that in itself is not a bannable offense as far as I know? You yourself willingly engaged in the discourse as did numerous others, so arguing this point is hypocritical. I'm merely suggesting an alternative approach to the interaction that you already had. And I’m refuting the idea that the ban caused a lost opportunity to debate white supremacy with white supremacists. That opportunity still exists. If anyone believes that it would be a productive use of their time they are more than welcome to do it, but they can do it somewhere else.
I am not asserting that it was a lost opportunity in this case, I am asserting that it is a hasty MO wherein you diagnosed a user with cancer when they could have just as easily had pneumonia. The fact that they did indeed have cancer was proven by someone else and with different investigative outcomes than what you were privy to, and the fact that you were right does not necessarily distinguish you as a cancer specialist from a human incarnation of WebMD.
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On September 19 2019 04:33 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 04:27 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 04:03 Jealous wrote:On September 19 2019 03:52 KwarK wrote:
There are no shortage of white supremacist forums out there if you’d like to go evangelize them. You don’t need tl to host them and divert forum space from the discussion of the subject of the topic for that. I don't get to choose where people go or do not go. If his line of conversation was merely off-topic, that in itself is not a bannable offense as far as I know? You yourself willingly engaged in the discourse as did numerous others, so arguing this point is hypocritical. I'm merely suggesting an alternative approach to the interaction that you already had. And I’m refuting the idea that the ban caused a lost opportunity to debate white supremacy with white supremacists. That opportunity still exists. If anyone believes that it would be a productive use of their time they are more than welcome to do it, but they can do it somewhere else. I am not asserting that it was a lost opportunity in this case, I am asserting that it is a hasty MO wherein you diagnosed a user with cancer when they could have just as easily had pneumonia. The fact that they did indeed have cancer was proven by someone else and with different investigative outcomes than what you were privy to, and the fact that you were right does not necessarily distinguish you as a cancer specialist from a human incarnation of WebMD. It was a post literally talking about how Europe needs to ensure racial purity, and when confronted with this immediately seek to drag the conversation away to discussing the outlying details of the accusation to deflect away from the core idea of racial purity.
He knew he was spouting nazi rhetoric and made a (bad) attempt to deflect when confronted.
It doesn't take an expert to realise further discussion is going to be very unproductive.
Your not going to convince a nazi to stop being a nazi over an internet forum and you don't need to debate them to learn where they stand on topics, their nazi's. its pretty clear.
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On September 19 2019 04:33 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 04:27 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 04:03 Jealous wrote:On September 19 2019 03:52 KwarK wrote:
There are no shortage of white supremacist forums out there if you’d like to go evangelize them. You don’t need tl to host them and divert forum space from the discussion of the subject of the topic for that. I don't get to choose where people go or do not go. If his line of conversation was merely off-topic, that in itself is not a bannable offense as far as I know? You yourself willingly engaged in the discourse as did numerous others, so arguing this point is hypocritical. I'm merely suggesting an alternative approach to the interaction that you already had. And I’m refuting the idea that the ban caused a lost opportunity to debate white supremacy with white supremacists. That opportunity still exists. If anyone believes that it would be a productive use of their time they are more than welcome to do it, but they can do it somewhere else. I am not asserting that it was a lost opportunity in this case, I am asserting that it is a hasty MO wherein you diagnosed a user with cancer when they could have just as easily had pneumonia. The fact that they did indeed have cancer was proven by someone else and with different investigative outcomes than what you were privy to, and the fact that you were right does not necessarily distinguish you as a cancer specialist from a human incarnation of WebMD.
And if we were to adopt this attitude, the message we'd send as a community is that it's extremely not okay to be a totally intentional and obvious white supremacist, but if you cop to being a little misguided, or perhaps just pretend you don't know what Nazism entails, then that's totally okay and we'll listen to what you have to say and debate with you all week.
In case it hasn't been established, you don't do this with Nazis. That's what they want. They want a platform, and they'll put their agenda under 8 layers of plausible deniability and ignorance to get people to listen to them. If you really made an honest mistake and didn't want to sound like a Nazi, then being banned is a great opportunity to look at yourself and go "holy fuck that was bad, how do I not look like a Nazi in the future?" You're putting the onus where it doesn't belong.
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Based on the previous two posts, I have to concede that I must not have understood/remembered his latter posts as everyone else did. I'll withdraw my criticism.
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I don't suppose I could request JimmiC not be allowed to put positions in my mouth without supporting evidence (like the quote) at this point?
He's demonstrated multiple times a failure to make reasonable interpretations of the arguments presented to him (not just by me btw).
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its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
User was banned for this post.
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United States43829 Posts
On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account.
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On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account.
lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection).
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Edit: based on KwarK’s post below and what has occurred, the statement I had posted is not accurate.
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United States43829 Posts
On September 19 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account. lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection).
Nothing was revoked. He went mod shopping for an unban and didn’t get one, and was told that trying to sneak back with a new account was the only option. He wasn’t invited back or anything.
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On September 19 2019 23:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account. lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection). Nothing was revoked. He went mod shopping for an unban and didn’t get one, and was told that trying to sneak back with a new account was the only option. He wasn’t invited back or anything.
Ah that makes more sense.
you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior
gave me the impression he was recommended to rather than it being sarcastic (as in "don't make a new account we don't want you here period").
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On September 19 2019 23:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account. lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection). Nothing was revoked. He went mod shopping for an unban and didn’t get one, and was told that trying to sneak back with a new account was the only option. He wasn’t invited back or anything.
I understand what you're saying, but that's probably bad advice to give to people who get banned. It can easily be misunderstood as "it's ok if only you make a new account".
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On September 19 2019 23:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account. lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection). Nothing was revoked. He went mod shopping for an unban and didn’t get one, and was told that trying to sneak back with a new account was the only option. He wasn’t invited back or anything.
dude that's not what happened at all. why are you trying to misconstrue things?
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/HIdgLDl.png)
"mod shopping" is misleading to give the impression that multiple moderators backed up your opinion. when in reality some of the most respected mods on here (way more than you) said the ban was stupid. now it is obvious to everyone that you are not so confident anymore.
User was banned for this post.
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On September 20 2019 03:55 mrfefil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 23:34 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account. lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection). Nothing was revoked. He went mod shopping for an unban and didn’t get one, and was told that trying to sneak back with a new account was the only option. He wasn’t invited back or anything. dude that's not what happened at all. why are you trying to misconstrue things? "mod shopping" is misleading to give the impression that multiple moderators backed up your opinion. when in reality some of the most respected mods on here (way more than you) said the ban was stupid. now it is obvious to everyone that you are not so confident anymore.
The plot thickens
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United States43829 Posts
On September 20 2019 03:55 mrfefil wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2019 23:34 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 23:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 19 2019 23:17 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2019 16:54 lifef wrote:
its alright guys ill just stay in the brood war section, im sorry for all the trouble, i love and respect TL.
i think i used language that was too blunt. i am receptive to being proven wrong but of course on another platform. love you all.
btw, pvz 2 base arbiter, try it sometime.
edit: i saw nony beat mondragon in TSL LIVE, that was sick
I know you were advised to make a new account and avoid repeating the behavior that got you in trouble but it’s normal to try a little harder than this to stay under the radar and avoid the negative reputation of the old account. lmao I was wondering. No one reported it but the PBU aspect and the "too blunt" kinda undermines the "we don't want people like that here" and reinforces the "we want them to be better at disguising it". I'm sure it came about as some sort of compromise, but I just have to acknowledge the credit for the decisive ban has to be revoked (despite it's main objector backing off his objection). Nothing was revoked. He went mod shopping for an unban and didn’t get one, and was told that trying to sneak back with a new account was the only option. He wasn’t invited back or anything. dude that's not what happened at all. why are you trying to misconstrue things? "mod shopping" is misleading to give the impression that multiple moderators backed up your opinion. when in reality some of the most respected mods on here (way more than you) said the ban was stupid. now it is obvious to everyone that you are not so confident anymore. User was banned for this post.
I don’t know which mods you contacted (“some of the most respected?”) but none have expressed any disagreement to me about the ban. There is no ongoing discussion of the ban in the mod forum that I know of. My confidence is undimmed by the suggestion of unnamed respected mods disagreeing with me (and Chill), no disagreement has been brought to me by any mod.
It’s also surprising to me that you begged other mods to unban you and then when told explicitly by Chill that only admins can unban and that you’d need to contact them proceeded to threaten me by PM with going to admins if I didn’t unban you. I’m not sure how you thought that was going to work. Either you thought I had the power to unban, in which case the threat of contacting admins would be contacting me, or you thought I didn’t, in which case I’d have to contact the admins or risk you contacting admins. Or I guess option 3, you’re a moron.
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Also not very smart to parade around the fact your dodging a ban...
Just not a very smart person.
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Also there's the "they came at me for my Right-wing views" boogeyman, in full attendance. Pro-tip: you can be an asshole or a moron, regardless of political affiliation. Being a thinly veiled Nazi doesn't help.
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EPT
