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On September 23 2016 08:15 KwarK wrote:
I subscribe to the view that all of us, myself included, hold stereotypes and treat people of different races differently, even if we don't do so consciously. Your duty isn't to be somehow immune to the social context that causes that and be colourblind but rather just to identify your own racism and try to work on that. I think it is incredibly obvious in the current election that a large segment of the American population embraces those racist traits and rather than seeing them as a problem seeks to define themselves with them. xDaunt is a good example of that. Not only is he racist, as pretty much everyone is to a degree, he is openly and unapologetically racist.
first step to solving a problem is admitting there is one
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On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around.
iirc he said why earlier in this thread. something about being too close to the situation making it harder to moderate fairly.
I do agree that more aggressive moderation could've nipped this issue in the bud and avoided it for the most part.
one day, my plan will succeed and i'll get my power, mwahahahahha!
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On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around.
It wouldn't be good to have someone posting like that banning people.
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On September 23 2016 10:02 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around. iirc he said why earlier in this thread. something about being too close to the situation making it harder to moderate fairly.
I don't expect all mod actions to be fair. Considering people can be unbanned at the click of a button I'd rather see people more aggressively moderated and then overturned. If people think someone was unjustly banned they'll make it known in website feedback and it can be changed. Giving people a few hour ban to cool off when they talk past each other for ten pages wouldn't really be a tragedy.
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On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around.
How exactly do you propose keeping the discussion civil when a mod is posting stuff like this?
On September 23 2016 10:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 10:05 GoTuNk! wrote:On September 23 2016 09:58 KwarK wrote:On September 23 2016 09:51 Doodsmack wrote:
People do need to start seeing more nuance in these police shootings. If this guy in Charlotte had a gun, it's pretty clear the cop was justified. What even is the Second Amendment? Americans are allowed guns, even the black ones. Pointing one at a cop is another matter but I'm always amazed at the way the right try to make it about whether or not he had a gun and the left agree to play that game by those rules. We all collectively concede that gun ownership isn't a black right and that the Second Amendment isn't worth shit in the eyes of the police. There is a difference between the right to own a gun, and raising your hands with a gun in them when a cop is telling you to "drop the gun". Not saying that happened here, but that there is a world of difference between the right to own a gun and holding a gun while engaging with a cop, in a manner the latter might consider threathening. Also, it was a black victim shoot by a black cop, with a black head of police department. So why is this a racial thing again? Hi, this is your daily reminder that black people don't have a superpower that prevents them from learning any racism while growing up and living in a society with entrenched racism. It'd actually be really weird if they could do that. But, despite claims to the contrary by GG and xDaunt, black people are actually human.Also I wasn't referring to this specific incident, just commenting on the way gun ownership in the black community is seen as a deciding factor for police shootings, even though it's a constitutional right.
My position has always been that TL can do whatever it wants on its site, but I hope that TL at least understands that it has a massive fucking credibility problem on their hands when it comes to moderating the politics threads.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Kwark doesn't act particularly mod-like in the US Politics thread. If he were to start banning people that would cause more trouble than it would resolve. It is definitely best that he stay out of the business of moderating that thread.
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On September 23 2016 10:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 10:02 zlefin wrote:On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around. iirc he said why earlier in this thread. something about being too close to the situation making it harder to moderate fairly. I don't expect all mod actions to be fair. Considering people can be unbanned at the click of a button I'd rather see people more aggressively moderated and then overturned. If people think someone was unjustly banned they'll make it known in website feedback and it can be changed. Giving people a few hour ban to cool off when they talk past each other for ten pages wouldn't really be a tragedy.
they just need other active posters in there, who have good judgment, to serve as moderators in that thread.
vote me for politics thread moderator!
I should really add something in my sig about that.
the thread does need more aggressive moderation in general, or at least that's always been my stance.
also, haha at daunt and the pot calling kettle black situation.
ofc if they ever did let me moderate they'd probably want me to go soft and use a light touch, booooring (i'd still follow their settings orders, it's just boring, and if they wnated that they could do it themselves fine)
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On September 23 2016 10:56 LegalLord wrote:
Kwark doesn't act particularly mod-like in the US Politics thread. If he were to start banning people that would cause more trouble than it would resolve. It is definitely best that he stay out of the business of moderating that thread.
Yes, and I do give him credit for that.
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It's all worth it. USPolitics thread best thread.
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Canada11350 Posts
On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around.
It's hard. I posted in the morning, went to work, then after dealt with invoices, stolen money, parents, and rearranging my schedule around practices and IEP meetings- then I finally got online at 4:30/5:00 ish before leaving work to see the thread had blown up. Y'all need to not go crazy when I'm working. 
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All I got from that entire ordeal was that the thread needs more red hammers banning people left and right. And KwarK was just as flammable as some of the people on the other side of the aisle. Imho, bans should be given as time-outs. Basically "stop shitting up the thread"-bans, go reflect for a few hours whether that is really the hill you want to die on, and then come back when you are calmer and can have an actual, interesting discussion, rather than just RAAAAAAAGE.
I do think that KwarK is a bad person for that task, because he was at least as guilty as some of the other people in that 20-page debacle.
EDIT: I also don't feel like going through all those shitposts to look for red text, but I presume xDaunt and p6 got warnings (KwarK too, but he's a mod, so can't be touched). Banning GGTemplar as the only perpetrator of that ridiculous discussion is a bit myopic.
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On September 23 2016 11:11 IgnE wrote:
It's all worth it. USPolitics thread best thread.
^ 
Seriously though, the past dozen or so pages are an excellent microcosm through which non-American posters can get a sense for how troubled things are here.
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On September 23 2016 18:41 Acrofales wrote:
All I got from that entire ordeal was that the thread needs more red hammers banning people left and right. And KwarK was just as flammable as some of the people on the other side of the aisle. Imho, bans should be given as time-outs. Basically "stop shitting up the thread"-bans, go reflect for a few hours whether that is really the hill you want to die on, and then come back when you are calmer and can have an actual, interesting discussion, rather than just RAAAAAAAGE.
I do think that KwarK is a bad person for that task, because he was at least as guilty as some of the other people in that 20-page debacle.
EDIT: I also don't feel like going through all those shitposts to look for red text, but I presume xDaunt and p6 got warnings (KwarK too, but he's a mod, so can't be touched). Banning GGTemplar as the only perpetrator of that ridiculous discussion is a bit myopic.
Good luck finding a post of mine in that discussion that warranted moderation.
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On September 23 2016 20:49 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 11:11 IgnE wrote:
It's all worth it. USPolitics thread best thread. ^ Seriously though, the past dozen or so pages are an excellent microcosm through which non-American posters can get a sense for how troubled things are here.
Yeah, now maybe some of the hoity toity Europeans will stop trying to tell us how to be better
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On September 23 2016 21:20 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 18:41 Acrofales wrote:
All I got from that entire ordeal was that the thread needs more red hammers banning people left and right. And KwarK was just as flammable as some of the people on the other side of the aisle. Imho, bans should be given as time-outs. Basically "stop shitting up the thread"-bans, go reflect for a few hours whether that is really the hill you want to die on, and then come back when you are calmer and can have an actual, interesting discussion, rather than just RAAAAAAAGE.
I do think that KwarK is a bad person for that task, because he was at least as guilty as some of the other people in that 20-page debacle.
EDIT: I also don't feel like going through all those shitposts to look for red text, but I presume xDaunt and p6 got warnings (KwarK too, but he's a mod, so can't be touched). Banning GGTemplar as the only perpetrator of that ridiculous discussion is a bit myopic. Good luck finding a post of mine in that discussion that warranted moderation.
If you read what I wrote, you'll see I don't think you actually crossed any lines, but that you did contribute in quite a big way to about 20 pages of that thread turning to utter shit, basically by just getting into a pissing contest, and that should be actively discouraged.
Actually, upon reflection, plenty of your posts broke the rules. The thread specific rules, and in particular, rule 1:
1. Show, don't tell, and listen.
This one sounds simple enough, but political discussions on TL suffer from an ignorance of this cliché and oftentimes devolve accordingly. There is a huge difference between saying “Iran is a bloodthirsty despotic state” and showing how Iran could be considered bloodthirsty given particular evidence. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother posting. Furthermore, if you are here to simply pontificate, please do so elsewhere. The entire point of a forum such as TL is to foster communication, and posters who seek only to talk at others instead of with them will be ignored.
but also:
4. Keep the hyperbole to a dull roar.
Because I just love how that was originally worded.
5. Be evocative, not mean.
Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be.
Don't worry, though. Half the people posting at the time that flamewar happened were all breaking these rules. Hence why I think it's unfair GGTemplar took all the blame.
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On September 23 2016 22:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 21:20 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 18:41 Acrofales wrote:
All I got from that entire ordeal was that the thread needs more red hammers banning people left and right. And KwarK was just as flammable as some of the people on the other side of the aisle. Imho, bans should be given as time-outs. Basically "stop shitting up the thread"-bans, go reflect for a few hours whether that is really the hill you want to die on, and then come back when you are calmer and can have an actual, interesting discussion, rather than just RAAAAAAAGE.
I do think that KwarK is a bad person for that task, because he was at least as guilty as some of the other people in that 20-page debacle.
EDIT: I also don't feel like going through all those shitposts to look for red text, but I presume xDaunt and p6 got warnings (KwarK too, but he's a mod, so can't be touched). Banning GGTemplar as the only perpetrator of that ridiculous discussion is a bit myopic. Good luck finding a post of mine in that discussion that warranted moderation. If you read what I wrote, you'll see I don't think you actually crossed any lines, but that you did contribute in quite a big way to about 20 pages of that thread turning to utter shit, basically by just getting into a pissing contest, and that should be actively discouraged. Actually, upon reflection, plenty of your posts broke the rules. The thread specific rules, and in particular, rule 1: Show nested quote +1. Show, don't tell, and listen.
This one sounds simple enough, but political discussions on TL suffer from an ignorance of this cliché and oftentimes devolve accordingly. There is a huge difference between saying “Iran is a bloodthirsty despotic state” and showing how Iran could be considered bloodthirsty given particular evidence. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother posting. Furthermore, if you are here to simply pontificate, please do so elsewhere. The entire point of a forum such as TL is to foster communication, and posters who seek only to talk at others instead of with them will be ignored. but also: Show nested quote +4. Keep the hyperbole to a dull roar.
Because I just love how that was originally worded.
5. Be evocative, not mean.
Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be. Don't worry, though. Half the people posting at the time that flamewar happened were all breaking these rules. Hence why I think it's unfair GGTemplar took all the blame.
Templar took the fall because he actively denied that racist terms were racist (the whole calling black people monkies is not racist).
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On September 23 2016 22:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 21:20 xDaunt wrote:On September 23 2016 18:41 Acrofales wrote:
All I got from that entire ordeal was that the thread needs more red hammers banning people left and right. And KwarK was just as flammable as some of the people on the other side of the aisle. Imho, bans should be given as time-outs. Basically "stop shitting up the thread"-bans, go reflect for a few hours whether that is really the hill you want to die on, and then come back when you are calmer and can have an actual, interesting discussion, rather than just RAAAAAAAGE.
I do think that KwarK is a bad person for that task, because he was at least as guilty as some of the other people in that 20-page debacle.
EDIT: I also don't feel like going through all those shitposts to look for red text, but I presume xDaunt and p6 got warnings (KwarK too, but he's a mod, so can't be touched). Banning GGTemplar as the only perpetrator of that ridiculous discussion is a bit myopic. Good luck finding a post of mine in that discussion that warranted moderation. If you read what I wrote, you'll see I don't think you actually crossed any lines, but that you did contribute in quite a big way to about 20 pages of that thread turning to utter shit, basically by just getting into a pissing contest, and that should be actively discouraged. Actually, upon reflection, plenty of your posts broke the rules. The thread specific rules, and in particular, rule 1: Show nested quote +1. Show, don't tell, and listen.
This one sounds simple enough, but political discussions on TL suffer from an ignorance of this cliché and oftentimes devolve accordingly. There is a huge difference between saying “Iran is a bloodthirsty despotic state” and showing how Iran could be considered bloodthirsty given particular evidence. If you can't tell the difference, don't bother posting. Furthermore, if you are here to simply pontificate, please do so elsewhere. The entire point of a forum such as TL is to foster communication, and posters who seek only to talk at others instead of with them will be ignored. but also: Show nested quote +4. Keep the hyperbole to a dull roar.
Because I just love how that was originally worded.
5. Be evocative, not mean.
Bashing will not be tolerated; well conceived arguments that reveal the error in your opposition's ways will be. Don't worry, though. Half the people posting at the time that flamewar happened were all breaking these rules. Hence why I think it's unfair GGTemplar took all the blame.
I still don't see you pointing to a specific post from that discussion.
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On September 23 2016 14:19 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 09:45 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I know Kwark doesn't ban people for whatever reason, but I'm hoping that he will reconsider since that entire fiasco could have been resolved instantly instead of waiting for Falling to come around. It's hard. I posted in the morning, went to work, then after dealt with invoices, stolen money, parents, and rearranging my schedule around practices and IEP meetings- then I finally got online at 4:30/5:00 ish before leaving work to see the thread had blown up. Y'all need to not go crazy when I'm working.
How about a second mod with the clarity to state the topic is down the tubes cease and desist. Shitposters egging on each other until one right-of-center person gets banned. I hardly expect a single person to discover and understand why monkey/ape is more established of a racially-connoted term from the style of responses if they didn't know it going in. (I presume half the thread would make the argument hay it's racist to not know)
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Indeed danglars, they need more mods, particularly someone on a lot who can stop things before they get out of hand. though I think it was, at least in some of the responses, reaosnably well explained to templar. he just kept harping on the it doens't apply to him point, as well as pushing some other stuff that just ain't true; a common problem. he's been a problem poster for awhile too (off and on).
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There will continue to be dysfunction in the US Politics thread until there's a mod who brings the liberal shitposters in line -- of which there are currently a lot.
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EPT
