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beverley
40 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:45 MisterPuppy wrote: getting girls involved in starcraft is incredibly important for its growth No. Getting high-quality casters with clear English enunciation is incredibly important for SC2 growth (for an English-speaking community). I'm not going to blindly wave my "GIRL POWER" flag just because she is a girl. | ||
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Yngvi
Netherlands70 Posts
But why o why does an international community bitch about accents? I just can't wrap my head around it, I really can't. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:35 exarchrum wrote: I don't think it is an ethnocentric view to say that a particular accent is difficult to understand. Certain accents have more clarity to them, even among native english speakers. For instance a thick Boston accent or Southern twang can be extremely difficult to understand, even for Americans. Most TV broadcasters in the US have neutral accents and for the most part are easy to understand. There are some thick accents from the UK (I want to say Yorkshire accent? Not sure though) that I can't understand a word of. Listening to a news reporter from the BBC provides some of the clearest and most enjoyable English to the ear. Even within a country full of accents, news and sports broadcasts select people with clarity and smoothness. There is a reason why you don't hear a Boston accent from a news anchor on CNN. The point I'm trying to make is that it is perfectly reasonable to want a caster with good clarity and pronunciation. These attributes are the norm within the broadcast industry. A southie accent (most people in Boston don't have a "Boston" accent) is easy to understand. Just add "r"s. I've never met someone who had trouble with Southern accents before, though, and I live in Boston. Hell, most kids cartoons have a "Texan" character nowadays. There's no such thing as a "neutral" accent, by the way. It just sounds that way because you're so used to it. | ||
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Headshot
United States1656 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:49 Yngvi wrote: But why o why does an international community bitch about accents? I just can't wrap my head around it, I really can't. Because having to take time to decipher what the caster is saying detracts from the overall GSL experience. It's not that hard to understand. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
- No, she is not impossible to understand. If you really can't understand her, you should rather worry about your seriously lacking skill in languages, than who is casting what sc2 tournament. - Yes, she has a thick accent and quite an irritating one. I know that might not be mainly her fault, rather the educational system of singapore, but guess what, life's not always fair. Short people can't persue a career in high jump. Some people gain weight faster than others. - No, accents can be trained to become better. It's incredibly hard though, but somebody who wants to persue a casting career with an unattractive accent should try to work on it. If you cannot, then the lack of dedication doesn't qualify you to cast one of the most prestigious sc2 tournaments in the world (not saying that casting in general is out of question!!!). Well, that's my opinion though, and in an hour or two, it'll go under together with a couple of other good comments, in a sea with several comments with solid reasoning but nitpicking on unimportant things just to prove some other guy wrong, thinking that finding a small reasoning error in some minor points makes the whole post invalid, and a lot of flames. | ||
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AJMcSpiffy
United States1154 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:45 MisterPuppy wrote: getting girls involved in starcraft is incredibly important for its growth, and I hope that the community's complete idiotic response to Kelly the first time won't scare more girls away. Her interview saying that one of the reasons why she had backlash was because she's a girl and its a male dominated community really didn't help though :\. You know what people are really good at? Deluding themselves. Almost nobody will ever admit openly that they are at fault for something but there is always someone else or something else to blame. I am sure in her mind it was easier to blame others then herself. If she was black I am sure she would blame white people... User was warned for this post | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:45 MisterPuppy wrote: i've seen korean casting teams being two guys and a girl quite a few times. were they trying to replicate this and it just didn't work out with kelly? getting girls involved in starcraft is incredibly important for its growth, and I hope that the community's complete idiotic response to Kelly the first time won't scare more girls away. Her interview saying that one of the reasons why she had backlash was because she's a girl and its a male dominated community really didn't help though :\. That's her problem then. She's in denial if people seriously think that there was a backlash because she's a girl. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but I thought I saw somewhere else she refused to even consider voice training. If she's serious about casting/broadcasting I have to ask why? In the United States people who are serious about being on TV for broadcasting take lessons to learn a Midwestern accent (neutral). While I'm not saying she would have to learn an American Midwestern accent, the point is there is plenty of precedence of learning more neutral accents (I'm sure in non-US countries too) in order to not irritate the listeners. The same type of thing goes for any profession. You might have to learn new skills or change something about yourself in order to succeed in that profession. | ||
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exarchrum
United States491 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:39 LoLAdriankat wrote: That people don't like hearing strange accents or languages? Maybe I used the wrong phobia but hopefully people get what I mean. I don't think objecting to a broadcasters accent is xenophobic. The broadcasters job is to convey information about what is going on in the game to the audience. If the audience has to struggle to understand with what the caster is saying it makes the broadcaster less appealing than one that is able to relay this information with more clarity. Sure Kelly isn't impossible to understand, but at the same time she isn't the easiest person. I don't think having this view has anything to do with xenophobia. | ||
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cocosoft
Sweden1068 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:48 reDicE wrote: Absolutely NO ONE has said they dislike her casting due to her gender. Stop making it an issue--it's not. Of COURSE it is because of the gender. People are so ridiculously ignorant, that's all. User was warned for this post | ||
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S.O.L.I.D.
United States792 Posts
Everyone flaming her should feel like an asshole. Imagine if you went to cast GSL in Korean and the members of Teamliquid, who represent the SC2 community, flamed you because of your pronunciation. If you look at the important parts of casting, namely the actual discussion of the game, she did a good job. To me that's what matters most, but I guess people feel differently. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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esaul17
Canada547 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:55 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: I think she's definitely improved while casting Code A. Quite frankly I think her analysis and game sense are quite good, the only thing holding her back is her accent, and it's not even that tough to understand. Everyone flaming her should feel like an asshole. Imagine if you went to cast GSL in Korean and the members of Teamliquid, who represent the SC2 community, flamed you because of your pronunciation. If you look at the important parts of casting, namely the actual discussion of the game, she did a good job. To me that's what matters most, but I guess people feel differently. But she said things like "He is taking drones off gas after getting speed, looks like he is going all in speedling". I really don't think her game sense was very impressive either. | ||
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teh_longinator
Canada725 Posts
As well, for the love of god can she not post that players lost on her Twitter? It's horrible to see the results of a match spoiled. | ||
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UnholyRai
720 Posts
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Maenander
Germany4919 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:49 Yngvi wrote: I dont know what to think about Kelly moving back. But what I do know is that she did a fine job as a caster for code A, she showed great enthousiasm and game knowledge. But why o why does an international community bitch about accents? I just can't wrap my head around it, I really can't. My thoughts exactly. It's not like it was hard to understand her accent. Seriously, who couldn't? | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:08 Lonyo wrote: Timeline points to: 16th Feb: Kelly announces herself as caster on her twitter 21st Feb: GSL Code A starts and Kelly casts her first game 21st Feb: Moletrap posts a Youtube video saying he is going to Korean on a TRIAL for 2~3 weeks. 24th Feb: Kelly says she's leaving Korea on 17th March. 9th March: Conspiracy theories that Kelly was never on a trial and the whole trial thing is a lie. GOM made it up over the course of 5 days before Kelly had actually casted anything and ensured Moletrap released a carefully worded Youtube video including a time period and the word trial in order to cover up their mistake of inviting Kelly to cast. Sounds like Kelly just fucked up announcing the news on her twitter. And then came the preemptive flame threads criticizing her casting abilities from example videos. This was before GOM announced their plans for caster trials. I think if Kelly knew she was just a 'candidate' for Code-A casters then she would have said so on her twitter? It sounded a lot like she was hired indefinitely. Moletrap, out of nowhere announced his selection in detail around the time GOM announced their plans? Don't remember. | ||
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dogmeatstew
Canada574 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:35 exarchrum wrote: I don't think it is an ethnocentric view to say that a particular accent is difficult to understand. Certain accents have more clarity to them, even among native english speakers. For instance a thick Boston accent or Southern twang can be extremely difficult to understand, even for Americans. Most TV broadcasters in the US have neutral accents and for the most part are easy to understand. There are some thick accents from the UK (I want to say Yorkshire accent? Not sure though) that I can't understand a word of. Listening to a news reporter from the BBC provides some of the clearest and most enjoyable English to the ear. Even within a country full of accents, news and sports broadcasts select people with clarity and smoothness. There is a reason why you don't hear a Boston accent from a news anchor on CNN. The point I'm trying to make is that it is perfectly reasonable to want a caster with good clarity and pronunciation. These attributes are the norm within the broadcast industry. That being said, people were extremely hostile toward Kelly. It was unwarranted and rude. Criticism can be made without bashing someone into oblivion. Kelly is a nice person, and is clearly working really hard. She clearly enjoys casting, and her personality has really begun to shine through. However she can be difficult to understand at times. I don't think saying this is rude, ethnocentric, racist, or whatever other label someone wants to put on this. It is an observation and nothing more. I feel bad that Kelly was contracted for only one season and will be leaving, but I think GOM is making the right move in trying to find a solid casting team. I'll admit that original post was a little more rage filled that it needed to be and I do agree with you that some accents are simply clearer and cleaner than others (I think the British accent you were looking for is like cockney or Liverpool, York really isn't so bad) however I do still feel that alot of the accent hating comes from a form of ethnocentricity... well either that or just from sheer sloth. I won't try and argue that its harder to listen to accents you are unfamiliar with but I simply want to make the point that she's speaking a valid form of English and the inability of the rest of us to adapt to that isn't her fault in any way; to say differently on this matter is effectively saying that you don't think anyone should be casting if they don't have a pleasant familiar accent. From my experience, both from travelling and the horrors of post secondary instructors, strange accents become very easy to understand after a fairly short period of time, you just need to adapt and I don't feel that the starcraft 2 community is willing to give anything like that a chance, which sadly again, despite it being unintentional and unconscious does reflect a from of ethnocentricity. | ||
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Zisc
20 Posts
That's the bottom line there is nothing else to it. Anyways, for me that means I will finally be able to pay for Gom's VOD service since I will viewing 100% of their content verses half for the same price. | ||
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