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On March 10 2011 07:01 dogmeatstew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 05:57 Gentso wrote:On March 10 2011 05:56 dogmeatstew wrote:
Pretty sure half the people here would complain if GOM hired a british caster because "he has an accent"...
Seriously. You're completely out of whack. Generally, people enjoy British accents. But what's that have to do with anything? Sure people like British accents so maybe not the best example, however my point is that historically English is not "America's language" so the fact that the population of that country expects the rest of the world to form their dialect of English to match perfectly to the developed American *accent* is completely ridiculous. I have a Canadian accent, most people on this site have an American accent, a large portion have any mix of European accents etc. The point here is that its arrogant and self centred to expect other cultures to conform to you way of speaking (especially when its a borrowed language anyway, in a sense) and that basing someone's desirability as a caster on whether you can understand them as a product of how close their speech patterns are to the American dialect is absurd; especially without giving yourself a chance to adjust to hearing the accent and making better sense of it with less effort over time. tl;dr my point is that this thread is full of a bunch of ethnocentric whiners who refuse to adjust to anything that isn't what they already know.
While I agree with the overall theme of your argument, I disagree on the sheer fact that when listening to a stream made solely for an english-speaking audience, I'd like to think that the listeners should be able to understand the english that's being spoken (especially when it's being packaged for sale). I would expect the same amount of criticism if I were to stream the GSL for french-speaking countries in my broken, poorly-spoken french. (Or if it was spanish, as I can't roll my R's). Not enjoying the struggle of trying to translate what she's saying sometimes hardly makes me ethnocentric, or a whiner. If she wasn't in a job in which the sole factor of performance is speaking english, nobody would care that she has a accent that's hard to understand for a lot of people, and that's not just Americans. Imagine the frustration of someone who speaks english as a secondary language, and it's hard enough to understand when there's no accent present to begin with...
TL;DR - Your post has a very anti-american undertone to it, and I feel it's unwarranted..(at least in this situation)
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On March 10 2011 07:01 dogmeatstew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 05:57 Gentso wrote:On March 10 2011 05:56 dogmeatstew wrote:
Pretty sure half the people here would complain if GOM hired a british caster because "he has an accent"...
Seriously. You're completely out of whack. Generally, people enjoy British accents. But what's that have to do with anything? Sure people like British accents so maybe not the best example, however my point is that historically English is not "America's language" so the fact that the population of that country expects the rest of the world to form their dialect of English to match perfectly to the developed American *accent* is completely ridiculous. I have a Canadian accent, most people on this site have an American accent, a large portion have any mix of European accents etc. The point here is that its arrogant and self centred to expect other cultures to conform to you way of speaking (especially when its a borrowed language anyway, in a sense) and that basing someone's desirability as a caster on whether you can understand them as a product of how close their speech patterns are to the American dialect is absurd; especially without giving yourself a chance to adjust to hearing the accent and making better sense of it with less effort over time. tl;dr my point is that this thread is full of a bunch of ethnocentric whiners who refuse to adjust to anything that isn't what they already know.
I don't think it is an ethnocentric view to say that a particular accent is difficult to understand. Certain accents have more clarity to them, even among native english speakers. For instance a thick Boston accent or Southern twang can be extremely difficult to understand, even for Americans. Most TV broadcasters in the US have neutral accents and for the most part are easy to understand. There are some thick accents from the UK (I want to say Yorkshire accent? Not sure though) that I can't understand a word of. Listening to a news reporter from the BBC provides some of the clearest and most enjoyable English to the ear.
Even within a country full of accents, news and sports broadcasts select people with clarity and smoothness. There is a reason why you don't hear a Boston accent from a news anchor on CNN. The point I'm trying to make is that it is perfectly reasonable to want a caster with good clarity and pronunciation. These attributes are the norm within the broadcast industry.
That being said, people were extremely hostile toward Kelly. It was unwarranted and rude. Criticism can be made without bashing someone into oblivion. Kelly is a nice person, and is clearly working really hard. She clearly enjoys casting, and her personality has really begun to shine through. However she can be difficult to understand at times. I don't think saying this is rude, ethnocentric, racist, or whatever other label someone wants to put on this. It is an observation and nothing more.
I feel bad that Kelly was contracted for only one season and will be leaving, but I think GOM is making the right move in trying to find a solid casting team.
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Calgary26003 Posts
On March 10 2011 07:08 Lonyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 05:37 Chill wrote:On March 10 2011 05:36 JWD wrote:On March 10 2011 05:34 Chill wrote:On March 10 2011 05:28 JWD wrote:On March 10 2011 05:26 Chill wrote:
Okay, so my new theory is:
1. GOM selected DoA and Moletrap to be casters.
2. They couldn't make it immediately because of real life; Kelly could.
3. They hired Kelly immediately, made up this story about trials.
4. Moletrap scheduled to come, they said trial over.
Maybe not true, but at least I can justify the logic in my head as opposed to the current things GOM are saying. You don't think they hired Kelly indefinitely, but backed off and brought Moletrap in once the community blew up over it? And are now using the bit about trial casters to make Kelly's departure look better for both GOM and Kelly? It's certainly possible and does make more sense. I'm modifying the theory! GOM Evil Theory rev. 2.1:1. GOM puts out a call for casters and reviews all applicants 2. GOM focuses on availability moreso than ability. 3. Kelly is the most available and is hired immediately and openly. 4. DoA is also hired but requires a month due to real life. 5. Kelly has largely negative feedback. 6. GOM announces the "trial" and contacts Moletrap. 7. Moletrap announces he will go to Korea. 8. The trial period ends. What do you think? BTW I've been playing a lot of Phoenix Wright hahaha. Yep, I like that theory very much. It's the simplest one that explains everything I know about the situation (is consistent with the statements from GOM and Kelly I've read). Also talks with GOM seem to favour the theory of point #2. Timeline points to: 16th Feb: Kelly announces herself as caster on her twitter 21st Feb: GSL Code A starts and Kelly casts her first game 21st Feb: Moletrap posts a Youtube video saying he is going to Korean on a TRIAL for 2~3 weeks. 24th Feb: Kelly says she's leaving Korea on 17th March. 9th March: Conspiracy theories that Kelly was never on a trial and the whole trial thing is a lie. GOM made it up over the course of 5 days before Kelly had actually casted anything and ensured Moletrap released a carefully worded Youtube video including a time period and the word trial in order to cover up their mistake of inviting Kelly to cast.
Well when you put it this way... it seems plausible!
Anyways, I guess it is a trial system. Do you think they'll ship off Moletrap and just keep bringing in caster after caster?
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Imo a large portion of the casters are xenophobes. Kelly's grasp on the English language was fine, but it's her accent that turned a lot of people. Her accent deluded a lot of people into thinking that she couldn't speak English.
edit
Regardless of the accent, it's still best to get someone with a clear Californian/Hollywoodish accent, like in the sports networks and newscasts.
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On March 10 2011 07:37 LoLAdriankat wrote:
Imo a large portion of the casters are xenophobes. Kelly's grasp on the English language was fine, but it's her accent that turned a lot of people. Her accent deluded a lot of people into thinking that she couldn't speak English.
Wait, what? How in the earth did you come to this conclusion?
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On March 10 2011 07:38 Bear4188 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 07:37 LoLAdriankat wrote:
Imo a large portion of the casters are xenophobes. Kelly's grasp on the English language was fine, but it's her accent that turned a lot of people. Her accent deluded a lot of people into thinking that she couldn't speak English. Wait, what? How in the earth did you come to this conclusion?
That people don't like hearing strange accents or languages?
Maybe I used the wrong phobia but hopefully people get what I mean.
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On March 10 2011 07:25 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 07:24 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:On March 10 2011 06:46 Chill wrote:On March 10 2011 06:44 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:People saying Kelly's accent sucks and that's why nobody likes her How many people complained about SDM? Some, but not as many as complained about Kelly. Sure, SDM was quite knowledgeable but honestly so is Kelly. A double-standard is at work. SDM is so unbelievably much more knowledgeable than Kelly that using that as your basis for a double-standard is laughable. The basis for the double standard is that people didn't complain about SDMs accent or having to mute him. Obviously he knew more about BW than Kelly does about SC2, but she still knows quite a lot. SDM's English is considerably clearer than Kelly's so this is understandable. Still failing to see a dobule-standard whatsoever.
Feel the need to 2nd this. How can anyone even bring up SDM. He is a former professional starcraft team coach. You can't compare a coach's knowledge of the game with Kelly's... Please.... Also not once did I have to do a double take on trying to understand what SDM was saying or chuckle at the way he pronounced things. I had no problem really with Kelly, would prefer Tasteless and Artosis, or even actually the Korean commentary but to compare her to SDM is just ridiculous.
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On March 10 2011 07:27 blk.man.smart wrote:
Reading the reaction to Kelly really makes me sick. Maybe because I grew up with speech problems and knew how it felt for people to say "Speak English!" to me. I didn't really have any problem understanding Kelly, just was a different accent to get used to. Maybe because I'm in computer scientist and have had to listen to individuals with all kinds of accents at past internships and classes. I thought Kelly had pretty good incites and a good personality. Doa I agree has a clear voice, but he is just boring to listen to. His understanding is even less than Kelly. With that in mind I'll be patient and see if he grows in the next couple weeks.
Thanks for commentating Kelly, wish you the best in the future.
What kind of reactions are you talking about? The vast majority of the posts are saying "Kelly is not a good fit for this job" rather than some unwarranted personal attacks like "Kelly's English sucks and she should be ashamed".
English is my second language and I can sympathize with what you've been through. I'm sure that you are a great computer scientist and most likely a good person as well. However, if I was an employer interviewing people for a profession that heavily involves public speaking, would I have picked you when you were having speech problems or picked me when I was still very new to English? I would have to say no to both.
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On March 10 2011 07:39 LoLAdriankat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 07:38 Bear4188 wrote:On March 10 2011 07:37 LoLAdriankat wrote:
Imo a large portion of the casters are xenophobes. Kelly's grasp on the English language was fine, but it's her accent that turned a lot of people. Her accent deluded a lot of people into thinking that she couldn't speak English. Wait, what? How in the earth did you come to this conclusion? That people don't like hearing strange accents or languages? Maybe I used the wrong phobia but hopefully people get what I mean.
People have no problem with accents. They have problems with what I believe are accents that interfere in effectively communicating with the audience.
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Chinese acting schools in the 80s only allowed the Manchurian accent.
Therefore, Chinese Acting Schools were racist toward Han Chinese (?)
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IMO, she's a terrible representation of my country. Especially her education standards. If she comes back, I don't think she can find ANY well paying jobs.
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i've seen korean casting teams being two guys and a girl quite a few times. were they trying to replicate this and it just didn't work out with kelly?
getting girls involved in starcraft is incredibly important for its growth, and I hope that the community's complete idiotic response to Kelly the first time won't scare more girls away. Her interview saying that one of the reasons why she had backlash was because she's a girl and its a male dominated community really didn't help though :\.
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Fucking brilliant community. I'm so sad for this 
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Kelly caught a lot of unwarranted shit from people. She improved quite a bit. Her accent wasn't unintelligible. She and Doa were great together imo.
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I actually never had a problem understand Kelly but it seems that her contract ended and that is why she is leaving. I think the only problem I have with the new Code A casters is that they just seem to do a play-by-play and less analysis but that is probably because I'm spoiled by Tastosis. Those two are such great casters and it is a hard to fill their shoes for any new caster that comes to GomTV
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It's the basics of commentating and broadcasting. You have to have to be able to speak proper (insert whatever language here).Considering the feedback of Kelly's commentating she did less than acceptable regarding this.
With that said, hope Moltetrap gets the job. He has commentated allot and deserves it just as much as anyone. Would be even more awesome if Klazart would comment haha.
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On March 10 2011 04:47 Sclol wrote:
So Doa will cast the GSL Code A together with Tastetosis? I am so happy
I think moletrap will take over for code A next season with Doa.
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On March 10 2011 07:24 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 06:46 Chill wrote:On March 10 2011 06:44 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:People saying Kelly's accent sucks and that's why nobody likes her How many people complained about SDM? Some, but not as many as complained about Kelly. Sure, SDM was quite knowledgeable but honestly so is Kelly. A double-standard is at work. SDM is so unbelievably much more knowledgeable than Kelly that using that as your basis for a double-standard is laughable. The basis for the double standard is that people didn't complain about SDMs accent or having to mute him. Obviously he knew more about BW than Kelly does about SC2, but she still knows quite a lot.
Numerous people actually DID complain about his accent and rough/sharp voice and style of speech. Were you even around back then, reading and posting on LR threads?
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On March 10 2011 07:45 MisterPuppy wrote:
i've seen korean casting teams being two guys and a girl quite a few times. were they trying to replicate this and it just didn't work out with kelly?
getting girls involved in starcraft is incredibly important for its growth, and I hope that the community's complete idiotic response to Kelly the first time won't scare more girls away. Her interview saying that one of the reasons why she had backlash was because she's a girl and its a male dominated community really didn't help though :\.
Absolutely NO ONE has said they dislike her casting due to her gender. Stop making it an issue--it's not.
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After one season Kelly showed poor performance and is now in up/down matches to see if she will stay as caster in future seasons :D
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EPT
