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Edit: Did a post a long time ago with a build that was sub-par and all the criticism it got was pretty well founded therefore I'm making this edit to that post.
I have totally edited my build I made up here quite some time ago which, it was not perfected and as people pointed out was pretty stupid. Now I have made it into a very effective build and have gotten the timings down pretty much perfectly so it's extremely smooth if done correctly. This build works for everyone if you do it correctly and as this build also before was meant as a Terran way of 4 gate equivalent it is very effective all the way up in the rankings. Try to hide your barracks so they are hard to scout and scout around your base for proxy stargate and so when you have 2-3 marauders out. I personally don't scout early but it might be a bad move but it feels pretty indifferent to anything you can encounter except perhaps 1base baneling busts.
About me: Not important but guess people want to know something at least. Played quite a bit of SC1, were at most D+(sucks I know) and have mostly been playing Zerg but have played T now also for quite some time with ONLY this build. Am at least 2k+ based on what players I win against, I don't dare say anything else (please don't push me on this I don't find it relevant but the build is imho).
General description: You get only 1 refinery, 4 barracks 2 with tech lab and 2 with reactors and all the relevant upgrades for the marine marauders then as the combat shield upgr is about to finish around 7.30 you push.
More detailed: (Produce SCV's until you have about 26 of them, also marauders and marines from your barracks, always, except when pointed out to build differently below) 10 depot 12 barracks 13 refinery 15 orbital command, tech lab, supply depot with the scv which finished barracks 18 barracks with scv which finished supply depot 22 stim pack 23 supply dep 27 barracks, marine from just finished barracks 30 supply dep, reactor on barrack 34 supply dep, reactor on finished barracks, and another barracks with scv finishing the 3rd 35 marine in tech lab barracks, we want gas for combat shield 39 supply dep 40 marine from tech lab again 44 comb shield 45 marine tech lab barracks so we can get a tech lab on our last barracks which just finished 46 supply depot, and continue making them all the time, basically with the same scv from 30 supply and onward though sometimes you need to time it a bit, also when you just hit their base you don't need to continue to build them and if its a protoss camping out(terran also possibly) try to get concussive shells sometime and also build an engineering bay to get level 1 weapons and armour.
Then you make marines marauders and push at 7.30 to time your attack so that combat shield finishes when you are hitting the base,
Stim up his ramp(if the units or defense is there, if not wherever the army is) just as the upgrade finishes and be careful to have your marauders in front for banelings and taking siege tank hits etc. The micro of the attack vs this tanks and so is what makes it good or bad as any other build. IMPORTANT, what makes it really powerful in comparison to for example the 3 barracks one is that the reinforcements coming from your barracks simply overwhelms anything any other race can produce. Your attack force is just a tiny bit bigger but what is coming after is what makes it worth it in comparison.
Vs P, a protoss that protects the ramp, just camp outside until he has to take an exp, you will from all I've noticed literally crush his army if you do it well if he doesn't do perfect FF and use colossi in an extremely effective way, so always try to put on some fake pressure for him to use up his FF. Fast DT though are a bitch, but yeah with most builds they are...
Vs T, cloaked banshees is very beatable with this, you will literally obliterate his base anytime therefore I suggest you maybe to not use the Mule just before/as you attack to have a scan ready. Also hellion drops etc are just a waste of money as you will always come out ahead with at least your CC left and the opponent with nothing. Have not experimented with containing a terran so he cannot take his expansion though I think it is very possible to do so as I've had games like that.
Vs Z, watch out for baneling busts and possibly a hidden fast 3rd base as you push out or look around the map. Other than that, keep your marauders in front and micro well! Most often it's not needed as the opponents army cannot stand your awesome force, but the times they have you scouted out all that matters is having good micro and you will get the win, mutas won't be in time and if he does not have banelings he's toast.
Have played more than 150 games with it and have had great results and now finally I think it is smooth enough to totally revise my first stupid post I made here. Good luck using it and I hope it may provide some help for some people out there.
Replays: Will provide 2 replays for now, one with me vs a computer just showing basically how it almost exactly is supposed to look, this is the first one. The second one is me doing this build with a slight mistake messing up building one marauder too many before combat shield thus delaying my attack for 15 seconds or so. If you want more I'd be happy to provide if anyone would be interested.
Example vs Computer http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/118981-1v1-terran-protoss-jungle-basin Me vs Z on Xel Naga http://topreplays.com/Replays/Download/3687
Also, for those interested trying this with a mate when playing 2v2 with you both doing this, it's Fucking Amazing as InControl so nicely would put it.
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this is basically a very well known TvP 3 rax build. I use something similar in TvP when i want to open with aggressive bio, and it's the only strat I find safe on blistering sands. Issues with the build are 1) delayed expansion obv and 2) delayed tech (have to skip medivacs to get vikings to fight quick col or rely on microing against it)
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Do you have enough money to make units out of 4 barracks?
I don't have time to watch the replays right now, but in my experience a good 3rax will eat 100% of the resources that you're harvesting (even with mules) in order to stay ahead in supply, upgrades, etc.
I'll edit this post to reflect my opinion based on replays once I have time to see them.
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Now that I've watched all the replays in great detail, I can give a real opinion on this build.
Right now, that 4th barracks that you're making is only to make up for your lack of mechanics. Your Barracks are not hotkeyed, and you got supply blocked multiple times. Every time you move your units, you stop making anything for a full production cycle, which means you have enough money to make units out of 4 barracks.
You're wasting money on all those buildings, it would be much better to practice your mechanics and move out with a stronger army. I saw a 9 minute push most of the time, twice under 60 food. This is a weak push.
Try to figure out a transition with this build too - I'd like to see some of the games you lost with it - not just games where you won off the first attack.
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Isn't this a pretty common build, just a slight variation I guess? But yeah it's extremely strong, has problems with fast DTs and colossus though.
For TvT I guess it can work but if they see it coming they can bunker up quite effectively, as for TvZ it's going to be really difficult to stop, probably need to just mass crawlers.
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Faze, you do if you play it out perfectly with the timings have just enough resources to pump out of all the barracks except maybe a millisecond here or there but after you start pushing and need no more supply depots you can pump 100% I think.
Edit: TvT It just seems as if it overwhelms just about anything and if there are 2 bunkers just kill the normal units then rush past them with your stim and kill the rest of his base. Also with ZvT is as always you just cannot get mass crawlers as reapers can jump up and down but more importantly the medivacs most people get, I've been thinking that it might stop it though I think it might just as well stomp mass crawlers. Problem as always with Zerg is the scouting of this, you have many marines to stop the overlords.
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this looks pretty interesting. what happens if it doesnt work, whats your transition? or do you just keep attacking.
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If it doesn't work I'm not really sure, am not a good enough player to dare try expanding afterwards or what might be necessary. The very few times it has failed I just take a step back continue to pump and get an even bigger army and then kill the opponent (the cases were vs T and Z) vs Colossus and your attack failed it might work too with good enough marauder micro though I'm sceptical. If anyone can come up with a great transitioning it would be fun to know what it might be.
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If there's no transition I guess you attack with your first mm and around half your SCVs then?
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Seems like 3rax, with a transition is safer, also pushing out at around 50 food at the 7 minute mark. What time does this build get to 50 food? Earlier than 7? or much later? if it's later than 3rax is "better" in terms of unit output and transition potential.
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No I don't do that, but I guess that might work didn't think about it anyhows =) Though what makes it really strong from what I've seem is that you just keep pumping and pumping out of them and if the fight was close in the beginning you overwhelm them afterwards, have happened in quite a few games vs P where they didn't get constant force field block on the ramp.
Edit: Have no experience with the 3 rax push, but I feel what makes this strong is that you continue pumping always getting reinforcements which sooner or later will get you the win more safely than a 3 rax so probably a stronger more all in single minded strategy. This build is not for pros I'd guess though it might work, what it is is 1 strategy that will make you win many, many games with a stable build and not much thinking about it. There could probably be some great transitions from it also but I'm not good enough to tell. =/
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instead of all-in every game, you could, you know, actually learn how to play the game.
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It's the standard 3 rax play - I like the two reactors 1 tech pumping out 4 marines & 1 maurader.
Transition into expand plus star port: Ravens for pd against stalkers Vikings for colossus Medivacs to keep the ball running
Usually add 1 or 2 rax after expansion
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Okay I tested this build doing it exactly as instructions said, never getting supply blocked, never missing SCVs, and muling ASAP.
As soon as the second Reactor finishes, you won't have enough minerals to support every Barracks. It's not even close, I always have one barracks doing almost nothing and you can't pump the units out efficiently at all.
As for the supply, I'm now 53 supply at 7:02, where I paused. I'd say that the build is bad and inefficient.
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On September 29 2010 04:27 Masq wrote: instead of all-in every game, you could, you know, actually learn how to play the game.
How is it all-in exactly? I think this build is off because 3 rax (2 tech, 1 reactor) tends to keep you breaking even on one base so I don't see how 4 rax is possible. But it allows you to skip a production cycle and build an expo or tech up. You have left-over gas for upgrades or tech.
Really, don't see how it's all in. It deals with toss going colossus and or 4gate quite well and you can expand as you push.
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Hmm interesting thanks for that, may I see the replay? My timings are not perfect or even very good as a whole but it feels as if you can get it down to more precision it will work out.
Pretty interesting that, took the build from my last replay since it felt good when I played the game but maybe I had better ones with better timing. I'd say some timings are probably abit off but if you get them right maybe .5 marine total will be lost overall but while you push and have units dying I think you get maximum production.
Edit: Also am sorry I didn't provide a perfect build, will look into it over the next day and probably change it up abit. Very much felt like sharing it now since it proved to be just so easy and efficient.
Briefly from another replay of mine. When you stop scv's on 22 of them there seems to be about 0.5 marines that don't get trained for each cycle until you push and need no more supply depots, at this point it seems that your income is enough to support your production. Will look at it as said =)
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On September 29 2010 04:34 Shikyo wrote: Okay I tested this build doing it exactly as instructions said, never getting supply blocked, never missing SCVs, and muling ASAP.
As soon as the second Reactor finishes, you won't have enough minerals to support every Barracks. It's not even close, I always have one barracks doing almost nothing and you can't pump the units out efficiently at all.
As for the supply, I'm now 53 supply at 7:02, where I paused. I'd say that the build is bad and inefficient. maybe doing scvs continously is a no no? Since it is an all in, cutting them at certain point seems reasonable.
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On September 29 2010 04:44 natris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2010 04:34 Shikyo wrote: Okay I tested this build doing it exactly as instructions said, never getting supply blocked, never missing SCVs, and muling ASAP.
As soon as the second Reactor finishes, you won't have enough minerals to support every Barracks. It's not even close, I always have one barracks doing almost nothing and you can't pump the units out efficiently at all.
As for the supply, I'm now 53 supply at 7:02, where I paused. I'd say that the build is bad and inefficient. maybe doing scvs continously is a no no? Since it is an all in, cutting them at certain point seems reasonable. Well, I needed to stop making them after I my third reactor finished so that I could keep nearly 3 barracks constantly running. I'm not sure how much earlier I could stop if I want to be able to support all of these eventually.
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Fine post, but ya, This isn't new at all. I've done this against P since launch, as have many top T diamond players. The decision to go 4 raks, or to go 3 and then transition to factory/starport depends on scouting. The build order as posted is subject to early cheese and harass, as you don't have a marine out until way too late. I advise building a marine first and considering early use of reapers to harass while you amp up for first push. Good use of guardians at his ramp will blunt this push, and an observer should scout it. You also need to immediately produce marines when you leave or else you risk getting void ray'd while in transit.
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Yeah I think you just described a 3 rax that will have an idle barracks to go along with it. You can barely support 3 as it is with constant supply depots. Stim is the same timing, finishing before 50 food, and you can put on some nice pressure, but the fourth rax will be idle a lot of the time unless your macro slips. It also has the same problem as the 3 rax against toss: if you just charge up that ramp you will lose the game to one sentry. In TvT 3 rax is a pretty nice timing attack before siege tech finishes, but a couple bunkers defend it pretty well. In TvZ it can work but it's risky if they scout it. Speedlings are good and banelings are monsters.
Either way, I don't think you need that fourth rax as long as your timings are tight.
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Well I didn't find anything but the 3 rax one when I looked around anyhow, probably this push is the worst against P as mentioned in general but I have a hard time seeing anyone going Void Ray ever beating this strategy out when you push with your main army and just kill the player while you use some of the many marines you have with stim to defend vs void rays. Was thinking of early reaper instead of the concussive one and think it would be a great way to both scout and also harass a P player, but I honestly don't know how much more susceptible this build is than other standard ones are to the many cheeses, imo it feels safer than most but I'm probably wrong.
Edit: Am loving the criticism, makes me able to think about it more and improve it. Have had great success until now anyhow with it and as you can see I suck, and if you play optimally 0.5 marines feels like to me like the loss you will have before you move in to do the push. One thing is certain and it is that you can pump out in sufficiently more than 3 barracks. Enough for now =)
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