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I don't condone or condemn using a weapon to defend your property, but I think if you kill someone who's robbing you, it's perfectly fair for you to face a manslaughter trial. Determining whether the guy was guilty of manslaughter or not guilty on the grounds of self defense would be easier after the evidence is examined.
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On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:35 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:26 BlackJack wrote:On September 16 2009 12:18 Saddened Izzy wrote:
he didn't have the intention of killing him?
He brought a fucking samurai sword the sword is a weapon only, he didn't bring a hammer or a bat; shit that serves multiple purposes he brought a fucking sword the only object of a sword is to kill shit.
LOL. Because if he killed him with a hammer he MIGHT have been going to his garage to hang a painting. Or if he killed him with a golf club he MIGHT have been going to hit a few balls. hahaha A sword serves one purpose and that is to kill people. The fact the kid owned one brings up serious doubts to the kid not just confronting the robber and slashing him then telling lies to the police saying he lunged at him. Guess what it's easily to lie about what happened when the only other witness is dead. There is intent to do serious harm to another when you bring something that is only a weapon to confront someone. What the hell is so wrong saying "When someone breaks into your house to steal something and you notice you go to the police, when they break into your house to kill you and your family you can kill him too." No one should ever die over a few bucks. Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not. On September 16 2009 12:38 Phayze wrote:
Also on the news page i found this
The area seems to be very hostile. This kid should definitely be commended. It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments.
Again you suck at reading
The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood.
HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property.
This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him.
How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.
Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences.
Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right.
On September 16 2009 13:39 Probe. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:35 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:26 BlackJack wrote:On September 16 2009 12:18 Saddened Izzy wrote:
he didn't have the intention of killing him?
He brought a fucking samurai sword the sword is a weapon only, he didn't bring a hammer or a bat; shit that serves multiple purposes he brought a fucking sword the only object of a sword is to kill shit.
LOL. Because if he killed him with a hammer he MIGHT have been going to his garage to hang a painting. Or if he killed him with a golf club he MIGHT have been going to hit a few balls. hahaha A sword serves one purpose and that is to kill people. The fact the kid owned one brings up serious doubts to the kid not just confronting the robber and slashing him then telling lies to the police saying he lunged at him. Guess what it's easily to lie about what happened when the only other witness is dead. There is intent to do serious harm to another when you bring something that is only a weapon to confront someone. What the hell is so wrong saying "When someone breaks into your house to steal something and you notice you go to the police, when they break into your house to kill you and your family you can kill him too." No one should ever die over a few bucks. Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not. On September 16 2009 12:38 Phayze wrote:
Also on the news page i found this
The area seems to be very hostile. This kid should definitely be commended. It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. What makes me angry is that people seem to think he has the kid in that situation had the right to kill the man. I stand to say he did not esp in that situation nothing to me in that article said that the level of force he used was necessary. Can you tell me where you live? That way i can rob the fuck out of you as you stand in your house and do nothing.
And you would be arrested and i would be reimbursed by insurance. We have systems set up for this if you don't care to use them well then it's your fault.
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On September 16 2009 13:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:11 Slaughter wrote:On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? Nazgul what would you do in a position where you were home sleeping and a guy breaks in? Im just curious as to your personal response and im on your side. Personally I would probably make sure my family/friends were safe and then call the police. While maybe 8/10 time when you confront a burgler he will run but weapons just escalate the situation. If you just make sure you and whoever else in the house with with is safe by like all being in one room locked door then oh well insurance covers property that is stolen. If the person confronts us then it escalates to him not being there just for stealing so then deadly force might come into play. I can't tell you of course what exactly I would do but I think yelling you know he's there and that the police is coming is the best way to go about it. In that case why would a simple burglar stick around to shoot you and your family? I think it's important to realize a burglar is really far from a killer. To approach him with a weapon is not self-defense it is the opposite of self-defense. It kind of feels like there is a large group of people who have grown up with the image and have been told over and over and over that a gun/weapon equals self defense, self protection and self reservation. It doesn't. It endangers yourself and your family. It seriously puzzles my mind to see quotes like "Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense." pop up when it is pretty fucking clear you are endangering your own life by bringing one.
it really depends on the burglars nazgul. where i live, when people come to mug you, they come armed and won't hesitate to harm you. my neighbor was being robbed back in the day, and the first action the fucker took was slice at the guy with a knife before trying to rob him.
every scenario is different, and i would rather prepare for worst case scenario than hope for the best in a situation. if you don't care for your property and can afford to take the hit, sure, call the police and let the fucker ransack your house. but not all of us can afford to lose everything we own just to get fucking tax credits from the government and an empty house to boot.
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United States13896 Posts
On September 16 2009 13:34 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:14 p4NDemik wrote:
Best course of action in this situation: call the authorities and make sure everyone is locked in a secure room, only using a weapon as last recourse if there is clear intent of assault. Unfortunately in our culture it's ingrained in our minds that confrontation is for some reason necessary. At the end of the day you may have lost some stuff (if the guy isn't caught by the cops), but 9 times out of 10 all parties should walk away unscathed.
It was a very poor decision to confront the intruder on the student's part in my opinion, however that does not change the fact that he has the right to defend himself in his own home, if the accused man did in fact try to jump him.
Did he take the right course of action? No. Does this mean that under the law he should be incarcerated for a large portion of his life? That's debatable, pending investigation, but from the limited information provided here, probably not. As if I'm going to hide in a closet while some lowlife scum takes the stuff that I've worked my ass off for? If you break into my house while my family and I are sleeping, I don't care what your intentions are, you are going to die. I have ZERO respect and tolerance for parasites that can only sustain themselves by leaching from other people. If you're that desperate, go panhandle.
So you'd rather take a HUGE gamble with your own and others lives rather than lose some possessions you consider valuable? Maybe to you a few of your personal possessions are worth dying for, but for me, I'll pass. But then again I'm a student with a laptop, an iPod, a shitty tv, enough money in the bank to pay for next semester, and little else to my name. Your case may be different but I'd still disagree with you on principle.
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On September 16 2009 13:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:11 Slaughter wrote:
Nazgul what would you do in a position where you were home sleeping and a guy breaks in? Im just curious as to your personal response and im on your side.
Personally I would probably make sure my family/friends were safe and then call the police. While maybe 8/10 time when you confront a burgler he will run but weapons just escalate the situation. If you just make sure you and whoever else in the house with with is safe by like all being in one room locked door then oh well insurance covers property that is stolen. If the person confronts us then it escalates to him not being there just for stealing so then deadly force might come into play. I can't tell you of course what exactly I would do but I think yelling you know he's there and that the police is coming (regardless of whether they are) is the best way to go about it. In that case why would a simple burglar stick around to shoot you and your family? I think it's important to realize a burglar is really far from a killer. To approach him with a weapon is not self-defense it is the opposite of self-defense. It feels like there is a large group of people who have grown up with the image and have been told over and over and over that a gun/weapon equals self defense, self protection and self preservation. It doesn't. It endangers yourself and your family. It seriously puzzles my mind to see quotes like "Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense." pop up when it is pretty fucking clear you are endangering your own life by bringing one.
He deserved to die for being dumb enough to leap at someone wielding a samurai sword.
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On September 16 2009 13:46 Saddened Izzy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:35 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:26 BlackJack wrote:
[quote]
LOL. Because if he killed him with a hammer he MIGHT have been going to his garage to hang a painting. Or if he killed him with a golf club he MIGHT have been going to hit a few balls. hahaha A sword serves one purpose and that is to kill people. The fact the kid owned one brings up serious doubts to the kid not just confronting the robber and slashing him then telling lies to the police saying he lunged at him. Guess what it's easily to lie about what happened when the only other witness is dead. There is intent to do serious harm to another when you bring something that is only a weapon to confront someone. What the hell is so wrong saying "When someone breaks into your house to steal something and you notice you go to the police, when they break into your house to kill you and your family you can kill him too." No one should ever die over a few bucks. Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not. On September 16 2009 12:38 Phayze wrote:
Also on the news page i found this
The area seems to be very hostile. This kid should definitely be commended. It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments. Again you suck at reading The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property. This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him. How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences. Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right.
Here is your problem. He wasn't killed over property. He was killed in self defense. The fact that he is a thief or burglar is irrelevant.
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On September 16 2009 13:42 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:11 Slaughter wrote:
Nazgul what would you do in a position where you were home sleeping and a guy breaks in? Im just curious as to your personal response and im on your side.
Personally I would probably make sure my family/friends were safe and then call the police. While maybe 8/10 time when you confront a burgler he will run but weapons just escalate the situation. If you just make sure you and whoever else in the house with with is safe by like all being in one room locked door then oh well insurance covers property that is stolen. If the person confronts us then it escalates to him not being there just for stealing so then deadly force might come into play. I can't tell you of course what exactly I would do but I think yelling you know he's there and that the police is coming (regardless of whether they are) is the best way to go about it. In that case why would a simple burglar stick around to shoot you and your family? I think it's important to realize a burglar is really far from a killer. To approach him with a weapon is not self-defense it is the opposite of self-defense. It feels like there is a large group of people who have grown up with the image and have been told over and over and over that a gun/weapon equals self defense, self protection and self preservation. It doesn't. It endangers yourself and your family. It seriously puzzles my mind to see quotes like "Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense." pop up when it is pretty fucking clear you are endangering your own life by bringing one.
And sir, what I don't understand is why won't you bring one? If the kid didn't bring the sword, the guy would of tackled him, beat the living shit out of the kid. Whether a weapon endangers a person really depends on the situation. The whole problem is that we know that the thief had malicious intent, so to counter that I would bring a weapon. The only time a weapon would endanger you is if you bring a gun out to the public, then the police can accidently shoot you. But the kid knew that he could of lost his life if the thief had a weapon so he brought his own weapon to protect himself. I think that the your survival rate if you bring the weapon increases if you know that your life is at risk.
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On September 16 2009 13:49 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:46 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:35 Saddened Izzy wrote:
[quote]
A sword serves one purpose and that is to kill people. The fact the kid owned one brings up serious doubts to the kid not just confronting the robber and slashing him then telling lies to the police saying he lunged at him. Guess what it's easily to lie about what happened when the only other witness is dead.
There is intent to do serious harm to another when you bring something that is only a weapon to confront someone.
What the hell is so wrong saying "When someone breaks into your house to steal something and you notice you go to the police, when they break into your house to kill you and your family you can kill him too." No one should ever die over a few bucks. Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not. On September 16 2009 12:38 Phayze wrote:
Also on the news page i found this
The area seems to be very hostile. This kid should definitely be commended. It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments. Again you suck at reading The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property. This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him. How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences. Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right. Here is your problem. He wasn't killed over property. He was killed in self defense. The fact that he is a thief or burglar is irrelevant.
Again you see it as self defence
I see it as hes the idiot that walks into the bear cage covered in meat. And who's at fault when the bear tries something on you.
HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber.
And you are saying he was defending his property
but wait it's self defense?
What?
How can it be self defense and defending his property?
So what he is not attacking thus defending his property. Some how the use of the sword was not attacking to defend his property.
And what attack is self defense oh i see you are an idiot.
When is it self defense when you put yourself in a situation armed where you know you will use your weapon obviously then all wars are self defense they are defending their people
(friends family) and the people are attacking them because they come at them with weapons i mean if i don't see the logic in that i must be brain dead.
On September 16 2009 13:54 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:51 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:49 keV. wrote:On September 16 2009 13:46 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:
[quote]
You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
[quote]
You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments. Again you suck at reading The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property. This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him. How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences. Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right. Here is your problem. He wasn't killed over property. He was killed in self defense. The fact that he is a thief or burglar is irrelevant. Again you see it as self defence I see it as hes the idiot that walks into the bear cage covered in meat. And who's at fault when the bear tries something on you. HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber. Well that is the wrong way to look at it. The thief could have easily surrendered. Lunging at a terrified nerd cost him his life.
So the nerd being terrified counts as self defense obviously he wasn't terrified enough because HE FUCKING confronted the robber obviously he was so terrified he wasn't thinking straight because i mean fear you run away from that shit right so i mean the kid must be confused or something. terror does some crazy shit to people maybe next time i'm terrified I'll go kill someone and claim self defense after all i just need to walk around with a sword and wait until someone comes at me.
On September 16 2009 13:58 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:51 Saddened Izzy wrote:
HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber. You're making it seem like he went "hiryaaaaaa!!!" and jumpslashed the robber while the robber just stood there. In that case, the robber would be legally allowed to defend himself. According to the student's account, the robber lunged at him. If that were true, he could possibly justify the killing as self-defense.
You saying if you robbed someone and saw them with a sword you wouldn't think about over powering the guy before he takes a chuck out of you. You know the guy is angry as he proved it by confronting you and he is willing to attack as proof of him confronting you. So as the robber the one already making bad decisions i should make the right one and run away instead of tiring something against the guy who is most likely going to take my arm off.
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On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else?
Should've gone for decapitation. That bastard had it coming.
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On September 16 2009 13:51 Saddened Izzy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:49 keV. wrote:On September 16 2009 13:46 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:
[quote]
Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not.
[quote]
It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments. Again you suck at reading The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property. This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him. How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences. Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right. Here is your problem. He wasn't killed over property. He was killed in self defense. The fact that he is a thief or burglar is irrelevant. Again you see it as self defence I see it as hes the idiot that walks into the bear cage covered in meat. And who's at fault when the bear tries something on you. HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber.
Well that is the wrong way to look at it. The thief could have easily surrendered. Lunging at a terrified nerd cost him his life.
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On September 16 2009 13:51 Saddened Izzy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:49 keV. wrote:On September 16 2009 13:46 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:
[quote]
Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not.
[quote]
It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments. Again you suck at reading The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property. This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him. How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences. Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right. Here is your problem. He wasn't killed over property. He was killed in self defense. The fact that he is a thief or burglar is irrelevant. Again you see it as self defence I see it as hes the idiot that walks into the bear cage covered in meat. And who's at fault when the bear tries something on you. HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber.
He confronted the robber, not the smartest thing to do, but the robber came pouncing on him instead of JUST SURRENDERING AND GOING TO JAIL. I don't see whats so hard about it. The kid probably wouldn't of killed the man if the thief didn't attack him and he had the chance of dieing if he didn't have the sword.
You must first accept that the robber died during the process of attacking the student, not the during the act of the student bringing a katana with him to meet up with the burglar.
The kid confronted the thief but the thief engaged the kid.
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On September 16 2009 13:51 Saddened Izzy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:49 keV. wrote:On September 16 2009 13:46 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:22 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 13:08 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:54 MuffinDude wrote:On September 16 2009 12:49 Saddened Izzy wrote:On September 16 2009 12:40 MuffinDude wrote:
[quote]
Thats funny, because why the fuck would there be the second amendment? A gun is the same as a sword, made only to kill. You take a gun with you because just in case theres a break in and you want to defend yourself. He brought a sword to protect himself and the man lunged at the student once the thief saw the student. Anybody would panic at the fact that theres a complete stranger in your house and is charging straight at you and you're not sure if he has a weapon or not.
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It sucks that johns hopkins is in a bad neighborhood. You interpret the 2nd amendment way i interpret it another. Anyone who kills anyone when the other guy is not armed or made it crystal clear that he will kill you or people around you right now, cannot walk away scott free the kid should serve time just like a guy who accidentally kills a person walking down the street with a car. You say it's different? because one is something one does in defense vs something one does out of being inept? It is not, defending yourself is never an excuse to kill someone like that there was no struggle, no fight the kid killed him one slash, does it make what the robber was doing right to say it's wrong of the kid to do what he did? Of course not. what the hell is not want to be the hero go out and stop the bad guys go be a police officer. There was more then 1 way to handle that situation and guess what the kid chose one of the crappiest ways to go about it. Oh so are you saying that the kid knew that the man was unarmed when IT WAS DARK AND HE ONLY CAUGHT A GLIMPSE OF THE THEIF. If the kid died, you'll probably go like why didn't he chop off the thief's head right there. On September 16 2009 12:50 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 16 2009 12:48 MuffinDude wrote:
I'll agree with you that we shouldn't be cheering, but he did the right thing in protecting himself. If a person is threatened, which the situation clearly was threatening to the student (a unknown man charging straight at you in the middle of night on YOUR property), he or she has all the right in the world to protect him or herself. You are endangering your own life by approaching him with a weapon. With your mindset, which is accepted by law in America, you have more civilian victims, more burglar victims, more fear on the streets and probably a shitton of other negative things. Why would you want to hold on to this belief when it is obviously so bad for you and everyone else? I don't understand this. Why would you not bring a weapon with you on your property during the middle of night? You're endangering your own life for not bringing an item of self defense. Really you assume i believe in the death penalty? Well i don't you know what i would do remove his citizenship put him in jail for life. It was dark and he only caught a glimpse of the thief? It was dark and he lied not to get into any bigger trouble then he already knows hes in for chopping a guy up is just as easy to say. And yes you endanger yourself by bringing weapons with you any time, guess what more people die and get hurt by their own chainsaw and gun then by someone else you saying a chain saw isn't as dangerous as a gun, fuck it's just a motorized saw which is a samuari sword to some extent in design. Guess what you own a weapon you better be prepared for the consequences of using it. I don't understand the your mind set that the kid was going in to kill the guy. Why can't you see that he had the sword to protect himself. It was more like oh it the garage seems suspicious, I'll bring along something to defend myself just in case the worst case scenario happens and make sure everything is alright. This guys was charged like almost 30 times, he could be dangerous. The sword was probably the best weapon that he could find at the time and he brought it with him so that he could protect himself. Guess what? I don't own a weapon. And guess what? You need to stop being a stuck up bastard and admit that the kid wasn't bringing the sword to kill people. How does calling me stuck up change anything? The kid confronted the thief and it resulted in the kid using the sword and killing the man, you saying you shouldn't be call accounted for when you use a gun a weapon meant to kill, he was using a sword, all i'm saying when you have a deadly weapon and use it you are held accountable for what happens. Guess what the kid should have done make sure everyone is already take that sword get everyone in the same room and wait it out only using it when the thief comes barging into that room, you think i'm so stuck up that if it happened to me i would be all on the other side. Guess what i've been mugged i have had work done to get my teeth and jaw all right again because i got hit in the jaw with brass knuckles got my mp3 player and wallet stolen if anything by your description i have even more of a right to kill the guys who jumped me as they made it clear they were going to hurt me after it's self defense. Guess what i don't i get my strong position from the reactions of people after the incident. Hell i still wear braces to move my teeth after my jaw and bite was redone. If you got mugged, then thats too bad for you. As my teachers have taught me, under normal circumstances, if the man threatens you then you give into whatever the man wants. But if the man wants to kill you or it looks like hes about to kill you, then thats the time self-defense comes into play. The situation was clearly threatening to the kid. I'm not promoting killing, but the kid did right thing for protecting himself. And it sounds like you didn't get mugged on your property. The whole private property thing just tips it in the favor of the kid more. And sounds like you got your ass handed to you by the mugger. You probably couldn't do shit. As kev pointed out, stop using guess what. You suck at writing arguments. Again you suck at reading The kid confronted the thief he heard weird shit in garage he knew there was a string of burglaries in the neighborhood. HE put himself in that situation knowing he would have to use the sword and it resulted in him killing a man over property. This is the part i mull over he went confronted the robber with the sword the robber didn't confront him. How the hell does anyone here think it's alright to kill another over property.Maybe we should kill all sharks that take a bit out of humans for swimming were they feed. Face it you put yourself in the situation you pay the consequences. Life to me is sacred and killing people over stupid decisions is never right. Here is your problem. He wasn't killed over property. He was killed in self defense. The fact that he is a thief or burglar is irrelevant. Again you see it as self defence I see it as hes the idiot that walks into the bear cage covered in meat. And who's at fault when the bear tries something on you. HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber.
So all you have to do is prove that the robber had no escape route. I find it hard to believe that this robber that is so scared and ready to bolt at the slightest amount of noise isn't even able to exit the house before the kid comes down to "murder" him. Then you have to prove that the robber didn't actually lunge at the kid. Since it's unlikely that you are going to be able to prove either of these I suggest you work harder on getting the law changed instead of giving a completely inaccurate interpretation of self-defense.
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On September 16 2009 13:46 piratebay wrote:
it really depends on the burglars nazgul. where i live, when people come to mug you, they come armed and won't hesitate to harm you. my neighbor was being robbed back in the day, and the first action the fucker took was slice at the guy with a knife before trying to rob him.
every scenario is different, and i would rather prepare for worst case scenario than hope for the best in a situation. if you don't care for your property and can afford to take the hit, sure, call the police and let the fucker ransack your house. but not all of us can afford to lose everything we own just to get fucking tax credits from the government and an empty house to boot.
That's kind of my point though. You slice at a guy who holds a knife trying to rob you. Rob, not kill. That's not self protection that's self endangerment. Chances you will die have just become a lot bigger by doing that. It's just a macho-drive of hurting those who hurt you ran purely on emotion and not rational thinking of your best shot to survive a situation. It has no logical founding as self-defense whatsoever until the guy actually attacks you. Before that you're pretty much guaranteed to be safer by not showing aggression.
On September 16 2009 13:46 piratebay wrote:
And sir, what I don't understand is why won't you bring one? If the kid didn't bring the sword, the guy would of tackled him, beat the living shit out of the kid. Whether a weapon endangers a person really depends on the situation. The whole problem is that we know that the thief had malicious intent, so to counter that I would bring a weapon. The only time a weapon would endanger you is if you bring a gun out to the public, then the police can accidently shoot you. But the kid knew that he could of lost his life if the thief had a weapon so he brought his own weapon to protect himself. I think that the your survival rate if you bring the weapon increases if you know that your life is at risk.
You seem to keep referring to this specific situation but once you walk out into that room with a weapon you have no idea what kind of robber you will meet. If you repeat this situation enough times with, he's going to have a gun every now and then as well. That means instead of 'tackling' him the kid would be dead.
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On September 16 2009 13:51 Saddened Izzy wrote:
HE confronted the robber with the sword it is not self defense if anything the robber has more reason for self defense as he is unarmed and the kid is. This is not he walked in the guy attacked him he picked up the sword and killed him this is he had the sword in hand when he confronted the robber.
You're making it seem like he went "hiryaaaaaa!!!" and jumpslashed the robber while the robber just stood there. In that case, the robber would be legally allowed to defend himself. According to the student's account, the robber lunged at him. If that were true, he could possibly justify the killing as self-defense.
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On September 16 2009 13:47 p4NDemik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:34 Biochemist wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 p4NDemik wrote:
Best course of action in this situation: call the authorities and make sure everyone is locked in a secure room, only using a weapon as last recourse if there is clear intent of assault. Unfortunately in our culture it's ingrained in our minds that confrontation is for some reason necessary. At the end of the day you may have lost some stuff (if the guy isn't caught by the cops), but 9 times out of 10 all parties should walk away unscathed.
It was a very poor decision to confront the intruder on the student's part in my opinion, however that does not change the fact that he has the right to defend himself in his own home, if the accused man did in fact try to jump him.
Did he take the right course of action? No. Does this mean that under the law he should be incarcerated for a large portion of his life? That's debatable, pending investigation, but from the limited information provided here, probably not. As if I'm going to hide in a closet while some lowlife scum takes the stuff that I've worked my ass off for? If you break into my house while my family and I are sleeping, I don't care what your intentions are, you are going to die. I have ZERO respect and tolerance for parasites that can only sustain themselves by leaching from other people. If you're that desperate, go panhandle. So you'd rather take a HUGE gamble with your own and others lives rather than lose some possessions you consider valuable? Maybe to you a few of your personal possessions are worth dying for, but for me, I'll pass. But then again I'm a student with a laptop, an iPod, a shitty tv, enough money in the bank to pay for next semester, and little else to my name. Your case may be different but I'd still disagree with you on principle.
Maybe you could explain why it's such a huge gamble. If he's busy taking my stuff, it means my weapon is pointed at him long before his is pointed at me. I'm a decorated competition shooter. If he does anything other than put his hands up or turn and run, he's getting two in the chest and one in the head.
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On September 16 2009 13:57 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:46 piratebay wrote:
it really depends on the burglars nazgul. where i live, when people come to mug you, they come armed and won't hesitate to harm you. my neighbor was being robbed back in the day, and the first action the fucker took was slice at the guy with a knife before trying to rob him.
every scenario is different, and i would rather prepare for worst case scenario than hope for the best in a situation. if you don't care for your property and can afford to take the hit, sure, call the police and let the fucker ransack your house. but not all of us can afford to lose everything we own just to get fucking tax credits from the government and an empty house to boot. That's kind of my point though. You slice at a guy who holds a knife trying to rob you. Rob, not kill. That's not self protection that's self endangerment. Chances you will die have just become a lot bigger by doing that. It's just a macho-drive of hurting those who hurt you ran purely on emotion and not rational thinking of your best shot to survive a situation. It has no logical founding as self-defense whatsoever until the guy actually attacks you. Before that you're pretty much guaranteed to be safer by not showing aggression.
You do know that the area johns hopkins is one of the worst neighborhood in the nation? I would be cautious as fuck if someone was in my house.
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You know what else is a pretty good way to not get killed? Not breaking into houses and trying to steal shit. Murphy's law bro. Eventually you are going to get katana'd
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On September 16 2009 14:00 keV. wrote:
You know what else is a pretty good way to not get killed? Not breaking into houses and trying to steal shit. Murphy's law bro. Eventually you are going to get katana'd
I doubt anyone would dispute that, but that doesn't justify killing an intruder of any sort.
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This sentiment of protection of self and property, which is largely American given their laws and the voices in this thread, appears to me completely nonsensical.
I honestly don't understand the kid's reaction: He hears a noise, knowing that there have been thefts and the like, and makes a, relatively safe, assumption that someone is on his property stealing his goods. This THIEF, not robber, and there is a clear distinction, is not in his presence or field of view. He does not know who it is. Fair enough so far, right?
But here is where I don't understand this particular sentiment relating to protection of property which is clearly demonstrated in this thread. Someone please explain to me where the sense is in aggravating the situation by arming yourself with a deadly weapon, whether it be gun or sword or crossbow or whatever, and investigating the noise. YOU are placing your person at risk by confronting the thief in defence of property; the thief may be carrying a gun... he may turn upon hearing you, shit himself and shoot you... or he may be lucky in any sort of scuffle to disarm you and use your own weapon against you. You die over a fucking CD player. Intelligent. Admittedly less concerning is that you are placing his person at risk by taking such a weapon INTO the situation; as was the case here, this person lost their life in an attempt to steal a playstation or whatever it was that he sought.
I am not against proportional self defence of your person or property at all. But what appears to be common sense to me is that risking my own person in defence of property is not an intelligent risk. Not when I simply have the option of removing myself from the situation and calling the appropriate authorities. Aggravating a situation by arming yourself with a deadly weapon and approaching a person displaying some form of criminal intent is at the very least incredibly reckless on your part.
Many of you seem to be hung up on this notion of justice: "he'd get away", "he's a scumbag thief" etc. That is what the criminal justice system is for... That is why there are criminal laws, courts, police etc. You are not judge, juror and executioner for a reason.
As for the people screaming 'if you enter my property, steal, walk at me then your life is forfeit/I'll shoot you between the eyes' and so on, all I can say is thank christ people like you are not law makers in my country.
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United States13896 Posts
On September 16 2009 13:59 Biochemist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2009 13:47 p4NDemik wrote:On September 16 2009 13:34 Biochemist wrote:On September 16 2009 13:14 p4NDemik wrote:
Best course of action in this situation: call the authorities and make sure everyone is locked in a secure room, only using a weapon as last recourse if there is clear intent of assault. Unfortunately in our culture it's ingrained in our minds that confrontation is for some reason necessary. At the end of the day you may have lost some stuff (if the guy isn't caught by the cops), but 9 times out of 10 all parties should walk away unscathed.
It was a very poor decision to confront the intruder on the student's part in my opinion, however that does not change the fact that he has the right to defend himself in his own home, if the accused man did in fact try to jump him.
Did he take the right course of action? No. Does this mean that under the law he should be incarcerated for a large portion of his life? That's debatable, pending investigation, but from the limited information provided here, probably not. As if I'm going to hide in a closet while some lowlife scum takes the stuff that I've worked my ass off for? If you break into my house while my family and I are sleeping, I don't care what your intentions are, you are going to die. I have ZERO respect and tolerance for parasites that can only sustain themselves by leaching from other people. If you're that desperate, go panhandle. So you'd rather take a HUGE gamble with your own and others lives rather than lose some possessions you consider valuable? Maybe to you a few of your personal possessions are worth dying for, but for me, I'll pass. But then again I'm a student with a laptop, an iPod, a shitty tv, enough money in the bank to pay for next semester, and little else to my name. Your case may be different but I'd still disagree with you on principle. Maybe you could explain why it's such a huge gamble. If he's busy taking my stuff, it means my weapon is pointed at him long before his is pointed at me. I'm a decorated competition shooter. If he does anything other than put his hands up or turn and run, he's getting two in the chest and one in the head.
#1 We've been talking about someone confronting an intruder using a close range weapon with which he probably was not very experienced with. There's some serious potential for harm to come to the home owner here.
#2 - How the hell am I supposed to know that (in bold)? OK maybe for you it isn't a gamble, but for the average schmoe American who keeps a weapon for self defense but is not a trophy shooter they are upping their own risk exponentially.
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