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On July 05 2009 10:58 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 10:39 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
You are kidding right? As of now if you think that Much LET ALONE TEMPEST can take a game against an A class player, you are sorely mistaken. -Movie has been demoted to B team on the CJ team so he wont be played -Shuttle? Really? -Thezerg is wildly inconsistant -ForGG Lux Hoejja and Tempest are playing GODAWFUL. I dont even know the last time Tempest was played. Lux is playing like a kid with down syndrome and ForGG flat out plays like Tossgirl. I am sure you were one of those SKT>all in WL. not at all. I understand that other factors determine who do well in WL. For example, Fantasy sucks at improvising on the spot. He needs a fixated build order and practice for him to do well. BeST has been sucking since PL round 3, and Canata and Thezerg have or were sucking at the time.
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On July 05 2009 11:03 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet I'm talking about players who "have a realistic shot", not who would be favored against, an A-class gamer. More to the point, I think I was fairly even-handed in my estimation of the various teams; although I included some weak players on KTF (nothing gets past you), I was generous to the other teams as well. For example, I gave SKT Best and TheZerg, who are both struggling to break even in recent games. Really, unless you think I'm being biased I don't know what you're trying to say. good point. Thezerg has been playing sub par and honestly, BeST sucks vs zerg. Though saying that TEMPEST or ForGG in their current states could beat for example Calm, or Iris is a mistake IMO. (Calm and iris being the hypothetical A class players.)
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On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
STX: Shuttle really can't do much :< OZ: Lomo? Really? He really isn't that great. Khan: Jangbi in his current condition really can't take anybody. SKT: TheZerg kinda sucks atm, not sure about him. Hite: type-b? Where did that come from? I guess he can take down stork and BeSt, though that's all. KT: forGG, sure, but he's wildly inconsistent, Lux is inconsistent, Hoejja is just bad, Tempest is bad when he doesn't cheese, and that makes him passable.
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On July 05 2009 11:09 FragKrag wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
STX: Shuttle really can't do much :< OZ: Lomo? Really? He really isn't that great. Khan: Jangbi in his current condition really can't take anybody. SKT: TheZerg kinda sucks atm, not sure about him. Hite: type-b? Where did that come from? I guess he can take down stork and BeSt, though that's all. KT: forGG, sure, but he's wildly inconsistent, Lux is inconsistent, Hoejja is just bad, Tempest is bad when he doesn't cheese, and that makes him passable.
read Djabanete's reply
On July 05 2009 11:03 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet I'm talking about players who "have a realistic shot", not who would be favored against, an A-class gamer. More to the point, I think I was fairly even-handed in my estimation of the various teams; although I included some weak players on KTF (nothing gets past you), I was generous to the other teams as well. For example, I gave SKT Best and TheZerg, who are both struggling to break even in recent games. Really, unless you think I'm being biased I don't know what you're trying to say.
NOT WHO WILL WIN vs an A class but.. who has the 10% outside chance. The dark horse. The Hoejja > Bisu.
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On July 05 2009 11:12 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 11:09 FragKrag wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
STX: Shuttle really can't do much :< OZ: Lomo? Really? He really isn't that great. Khan: Jangbi in his current condition really can't take anybody. SKT: TheZerg kinda sucks atm, not sure about him. Hite: type-b? Where did that come from? I guess he can take down stork and BeSt, though that's all. KT: forGG, sure, but he's wildly inconsistent, Lux is inconsistent, Hoejja is just bad, Tempest is bad when he doesn't cheese, and that makes him passable. read Djabanete's reply Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 11:03 Djabanete wrote:On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet I'm talking about players who "have a realistic shot", not who would be favored against, an A-class gamer. More to the point, I think I was fairly even-handed in my estimation of the various teams; although I included some weak players on KTF (nothing gets past you), I was generous to the other teams as well. For example, I gave SKT Best and TheZerg, who are both struggling to break even in recent games. Really, unless you think I'm being biased I don't know what you're trying to say. NOT WHO WILL WIN vs an A class but.. who has the 10% outside chance. The dark horse. The Hoejja > Bisu.
Exactly what I mean; Bisu is the better player by far, but if a team can field a six-man line-up whose weakest link is Hoejja, they are setting themselves up to get lucky.
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so i mean.. when's this being played?!!?
I thought it was sometime soon - Porleague was supposed to be played Saturday too and it was played early Saturday morning - This supposed to be played Saturday too and normally played about this time, early in the morning - even though it's Sunday atm.. but no news of it going on..
results!?
gL
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On July 05 2009 17:26 Sosha wrote: so i mean.. when's this being played?!!?
I thought it was sometime soon - Porleague was supposed to be played Saturday too and it was played early Saturday morning - This supposed to be played Saturday too and normally played about this time, early in the morning - even though it's Sunday atm.. but no news of it going on..
results!?
gL See calendar, its gonna be played tomorrow
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66060 Posts
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guys chill the fuck down, it says in term of Bo7. Dont just point out show half ass bad the players are recently.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Oh, if you're doing this one, then I'll do the other one.
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On July 05 2009 11:22 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 11:12 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 11:09 FragKrag wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
STX: Shuttle really can't do much :< OZ: Lomo? Really? He really isn't that great. Khan: Jangbi in his current condition really can't take anybody. SKT: TheZerg kinda sucks atm, not sure about him. Hite: type-b? Where did that come from? I guess he can take down stork and BeSt, though that's all. KT: forGG, sure, but he's wildly inconsistent, Lux is inconsistent, Hoejja is just bad, Tempest is bad when he doesn't cheese, and that makes him passable. read Djabanete's reply On July 05 2009 11:03 Djabanete wrote:On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet I'm talking about players who "have a realistic shot", not who would be favored against, an A-class gamer. More to the point, I think I was fairly even-handed in my estimation of the various teams; although I included some weak players on KTF (nothing gets past you), I was generous to the other teams as well. For example, I gave SKT Best and TheZerg, who are both struggling to break even in recent games. Really, unless you think I'm being biased I don't know what you're trying to say. NOT WHO WILL WIN vs an A class but.. who has the 10% outside chance. The dark horse. The Hoejja > Bisu. Exactly what I mean; Bisu is the better player by far, but if a team can field a six-man line-up whose weakest link is Hoejja, they are setting themselves up to get lucky.
which is great, but really blurs the line between teams with real depth, and those who kind of have depth.
For example CJ vs KT
Effort/Flash, sKyHigh/Violet <- At this point its pretty even with perhaps a slight edge to KT much/forgg, iris/luxury <- here it starts to break down kwanro/hoejja, savior/tempest <- here it really really breaks down.
While both teams have 6 players who have a chance of winning vs A class players, CJ has a much stronger 6 man roster.
As an addendum, I would almost certainly pick hite as a deeper team than KT even with one less player listed on your chart
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On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet
fOrGG had an awful WL, but since then he's been okay. He's an A-class gamer though, and look at who he's played recently in proleague:
UpMagic (top TvTer - WIN) Leta (top TvTer - loss) Light (another A-class, solid TvT - loss) EffOrt (top five player right now - loss)
And in the leagues:
OSL Prelims - Miracle (KHAN do anything? - loss) MSL - Much (2x cheesy wins), Pure (1x cheesy loss), advances.
He's not really been playing much recently, and the last week or so he's definitely been playing very well. I'd say he definitely can win games.
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On July 06 2009 11:35 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2009 11:22 Djabanete wrote:On July 05 2009 11:12 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 11:09 FragKrag wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
STX: Shuttle really can't do much :< OZ: Lomo? Really? He really isn't that great. Khan: Jangbi in his current condition really can't take anybody. SKT: TheZerg kinda sucks atm, not sure about him. Hite: type-b? Where did that come from? I guess he can take down stork and BeSt, though that's all. KT: forGG, sure, but he's wildly inconsistent, Lux is inconsistent, Hoejja is just bad, Tempest is bad when he doesn't cheese, and that makes him passable. read Djabanete's reply On July 05 2009 11:03 Djabanete wrote:On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet I'm talking about players who "have a realistic shot", not who would be favored against, an A-class gamer. More to the point, I think I was fairly even-handed in my estimation of the various teams; although I included some weak players on KTF (nothing gets past you), I was generous to the other teams as well. For example, I gave SKT Best and TheZerg, who are both struggling to break even in recent games. Really, unless you think I'm being biased I don't know what you're trying to say. NOT WHO WILL WIN vs an A class but.. who has the 10% outside chance. The dark horse. The Hoejja > Bisu. Exactly what I mean; Bisu is the better player by far, but if a team can field a six-man line-up whose weakest link is Hoejja, they are setting themselves up to get lucky. which is great, but really blurs the line between teams with real depth, and those who kind of have depth. For example CJ vs KT Effort/Flash, sKyHigh/Violet <- At this point its pretty even with perhaps a slight edge to KT much/forgg, iris/luxury <- here it starts to break down kwanro/hoejja, savior/tempest <- here it really really breaks down. While both teams have 6 players who have a chance of winning vs A class players, CJ has a much stronger 6 man roster. As an addendum, I would almost certainly pick hite as a deeper team than KT even with one less player listed on your chart
Yeah.
That list is kind of lame though. You seemed to list every KT player versus their worst match up for those odd brackets (Hoejja vs Z, Savior ZvPing, ForGG tvp, Luxury ZvT, Flash TvZ, Violet PvT).
They aren't all the best match up for CJ but that list seems off. I know I'm a KT fan so I might sound a little bias but if you rearrange that list it comes out looking a lot better. Stuff like Hoejja vs Savior, Tempest vs Kwanro, Lux vs Much and ForGG vs Iris would look a lot better.
Just a nitpick though. It's not worth arguing that CJ has more realized depth than KT -- it's obviously true. KT just has and always will be the best team on paper/in theory/potentially. I think they'd make a good finals showing if only because their team, individually, has a pretty strong record against Zergs -- especially non-S class or S-Class MU zergs (Jaedong is S-Class, Yarnc is S-Class ZvT, July is s-class ZvP, etc).
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All I can say is, GOGO CJ~
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Ez one for CJ: SkyHigh < fantasy Iris > Best Snow > Bisu SaviOr > Hyuk
=P I believe in Snow... (I believe more in Bisu incapacity to adapt to new players with 0 televised match) That kind of player is hard
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On July 06 2009 12:58 FranzF1 wrote: Ez one for CJ: SkyHigh < fantasy Iris > Best Snow > Bisu SaviOr > Hyuk
=P I believe in Snow... (I believe more in Bisu incapacity to adapt to new players with 0 televised match) That kind of player is hard
snow pull one TTaZa?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
After thinking and contemplating it over, I just don't see how Savior's gonna get a chance to play.
Monster lineup from T1, each of them getting a favorable matchup to play in as well. 3-0 incoming unless Best finds a way to screw up.
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On July 06 2009 12:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 11:35 fusionsdf wrote:On July 05 2009 11:22 Djabanete wrote:On July 05 2009 11:12 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 11:09 FragKrag wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player):
CJ: Kwanro, Effort, Savior, Much, Movie, Skyhigh, Iris.....good (6+) STX: Calm, July, hero, Hwasin, Kal, Shuttle.......................good (6+) OZ: Jaedong, Hiya, Backho, Lomo....................................bad (4) KHAN: Stork, Jangbi, FBH, great.......................................bad (4) SKT: Bisu, Best, Canata, TheZerg, fantasy.......................OK (5) Hite: Leta, go.go, Yarnc, type-b, horang2...........................OK (5) KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
STX: Shuttle really can't do much :< OZ: Lomo? Really? He really isn't that great. Khan: Jangbi in his current condition really can't take anybody. SKT: TheZerg kinda sucks atm, not sure about him. Hite: type-b? Where did that come from? I guess he can take down stork and BeSt, though that's all. KT: forGG, sure, but he's wildly inconsistent, Lux is inconsistent, Hoejja is just bad, Tempest is bad when he doesn't cheese, and that makes him passable. read Djabanete's reply On July 05 2009 11:03 Djabanete wrote:On July 05 2009 10:46 DreaM)XeRO wrote:On July 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote: In terms of Bo7 depth.... (listing only players that have a realistic shot at winning against an A-class player): KTF: Flash, ForGG, Lux, Hoejja, Tempest, Violet.......good (6+)
ForGG in last 10 = 4W 6L Luxury in last 10 = 5W 5L Hojja in last 10 = 3 W 7 L Tempest in last 10 = 6 W 4 L ( suprised here ) ForGG and Lux have been slumping hard as of late, and Hoejja sucks in any matchup outside of ZvP and on the map Destination. tempest rarely gets any PL time b/c of Violet I'm talking about players who "have a realistic shot", not who would be favored against, an A-class gamer. More to the point, I think I was fairly even-handed in my estimation of the various teams; although I included some weak players on KTF (nothing gets past you), I was generous to the other teams as well. For example, I gave SKT Best and TheZerg, who are both struggling to break even in recent games. Really, unless you think I'm being biased I don't know what you're trying to say. NOT WHO WILL WIN vs an A class but.. who has the 10% outside chance. The dark horse. The Hoejja > Bisu. Exactly what I mean; Bisu is the better player by far, but if a team can field a six-man line-up whose weakest link is Hoejja, they are setting themselves up to get lucky. which is great, but really blurs the line between teams with real depth, and those who kind of have depth. For example CJ vs KT Effort/Flash, sKyHigh/Violet <- At this point its pretty even with perhaps a slight edge to KT much/forgg, iris/luxury <- here it starts to break down kwanro/hoejja, savior/tempest <- here it really really breaks down. While both teams have 6 players who have a chance of winning vs A class players, CJ has a much stronger 6 man roster. As an addendum, I would almost certainly pick hite as a deeper team than KT even with one less player listed on your chart Yeah. That list is kind of lame though. You seemed to list every KT player versus their worst match up for those odd brackets (Hoejja vs Z, Savior ZvPing, ForGG tvp, Luxury ZvT, Flash TvZ, Violet PvT). They aren't all the best match up for CJ but that list seems off. I know I'm a KT fan so I might sound a little bias but if you rearrange that list it comes out looking a lot better. Stuff like Hoejja vs Savior, Tempest vs Kwanro, Lux vs Much and ForGG vs Iris would look a lot better. Just a nitpick though. It's not worth arguing that CJ has more realized depth than KT -- it's obviously true. KT just has and always will be the best team on paper/in theory/potentially. I think they'd make a good finals showing if only because their team, individually, has a pretty strong record against Zergs -- especially non-S class or S-Class MU zergs (Jaedong is S-Class, Yarnc is S-Class ZvT, July is s-class ZvP, etc).
I would say that hoejja has a small lead on savior, kwanro is far better than tempest, much is currently better than luc, and iris is doing far better than forgg.
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