EPT2023 - 2024 Football Thread - Page 171
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28529 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23406 Posts
On July 20 2024 00:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: Eh, might be entirely joking/tongue in cheek imo. Like, Norway ceded two regions called Jämtland and härjedalen to Sweden as part of the peace of bromsebro in 1645 or whatever and I've heard Norwegians state (hell, ive done it myself) that jämtland and härjedalen belong to Norway as part of a Norwegian-swedish rivalry, but nothing serious is ever behind those statements. Now I dunno if the Gibraltar question is actually a topic of contemporary contention, that'd make it a bit more serious, I guess. There’s a rather thin line between nationalistic banter that’s good-natured and jocular, and the more earnest and jingoistic form of it. But yeah that could well have been the former, but I think we are seeing a decent amount of the latter at present too. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6188 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18289 Posts
On July 20 2024 00:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: Eh, might be entirely joking/tongue in cheek imo. Like, Norway ceded two regions called Jämtland and härjedalen to Sweden as part of the peace of bromsebro in 1645 or whatever and I've heard Norwegians state (hell, ive done it myself) that jämtland and härjedalen belong to Norway as part of a Norwegian-swedish rivalry, but nothing serious is ever behind those statements. Now I dunno if the Gibraltar question is actually a topic of contemporary contention, that'd make it a bit more serious, I guess. it is a topic of contemporary contention in Spain. They still havent accepted that it isnt part of Spain | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4202 Posts
Morroco has 6 stadiums in it. Portugal has 3 only.... Something is very wrong when morocco has more WC level stadiums and infrastructure than Portugal. Was not expecting this sort of split at all. Maybe this is old news that i just noticed but it feels that there are too many stadiums and they are too far apart. The WC atmosphere will be hard to get outside of Spain :/ | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28529 Posts
Portugal also has 3 stadiums above 50k but the next is 37k, and Spain does have 11 stadiums bigger than your #4. Morocco to be fair only has 5. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23406 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4202 Posts
On July 20 2024 07:34 Liquid`Drone wrote: Looking at size/population of those three countries, Portugal is actually getting the best deal. Looking at size/population the fairest split would probably be 10/8/2 (spain morocco portugal in order). So I think that looks fine. Portugal also has 3 stadiums above 50k but the next is 37k, and Spain does have 11 stadiums bigger than your #4. Morocco to be fair only has 5. There is more to being a wc venue than capacity. Im not arguing for more stadiums for Portugal, 3 was always the case when it was first advertised as SP+PT. Just saying that it feels weird that 1 - there are so many/ 2 - morocco gets so much in an Iberian wc plus one guest. But lets move on. Im not able to show the significance of the original plan for our countries. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6188 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17754 Posts
On July 20 2024 14:55 KobraKay wrote: There is more to being a wc venue than capacity. Im not arguing for more stadiums for Portugal, 3 was always the case when it was first advertised as SP+PT. Just saying that it feels weird that 1 - there are so many/ 2 - morocco gets so much in an Iberian wc plus one guest. But lets move on. Im not able to show the significance of the original plan for our countries. I think you're, confused, because it hasn't been Spain+Portugal + "a guest" since 2022. First they added Ukraine and then quietly dropped Ukraine and joined with Morocco's bid. These were full partners, not "guests". The 3 games in Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil are absolutely ridiculous though. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4202 Posts
On July 20 2024 16:41 Acrofales wrote: I think you're, confused, because it hasn't been Spain+Portugal + "a guest" since 2022. First they added Ukraine and then quietly dropped Ukraine and joined with Morocco's bid. These were full partners, not "guests". The 3 games in Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil are absolutely ridiculous though. Yes i remember morocco joining but i guess now that i see how it turned out, i understand why that topic has been pretty much absent from news around here for 2years xD | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On July 20 2024 07:40 WombaT wrote: You could just give it to England which is clearly the best setup nation to host a World Cup but whom FIFA seem allergic to I that so? In 1996 england didnt exactly make the most of its potential from what I've read. I can understand why that other countries were preferred over england since then (though knowing how FIFA and UEFA work, this probably was a mere afterthough in the decision making process). But at least in four years, they'll have the chance to prove me wrong. Also realistically, we're at point now where you cant expect most countries to host a world cup more than once every 50+ years (imo germany got lucky, and the USA being the major exception due to the commercial portential). I mean, even under the very generous assumption that every second world cup was hosted in europe, and rotates only past every country big enough to host it (mostly) on its own, you'd have England, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, Italy, i.e. that alone would be a 48 years cycle. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23406 Posts
On July 20 2024 18:35 Mafe wrote: I that so? In 1996 england didnt exactly make the most of its potential from what I've read. I can understand why that other countries were preferred over england since then (though knowing how FIFA and UEFA work, this probably was a mere afterthough in the decision making process). But at least in four years, they'll have the chance to prove me wrong. Also realistically, we're at point now where you cant expect most countries to host a world cup more than once every 50+ years (imo germany got lucky, and the USA being the major exception due to the commercial portential). I mean, even under the very generous assumption that every second world cup was hosted in europe, and rotates only past every country big enough to host it (mostly) on its own, you'd have England, Germany, Spain, France, Russia, Italy, i.e. that alone would be a 48 years cycle. Well, I still had residual Euro ‘it’s coming home’ fever, I meant the UK :p 1996 is pretty fondly remembered in England, I imagine elsewhere it was just another Euros, or indeed is more negatively remembered. One has to remember that 96 was a big step in England moving forwards from its horrendous hooliganism problem too. It was much closer to the nadirs of Heysel etc and English clubs being banned from European football than it is to today. It’s also worth noting that the Qatar decision especially really annoyed folks, so they didn’t bid this time around. You do have to be in it to win it as it were. But for once I’m not bemoaning English jingoistic pettiness, they did have a point on this one. Realistically FIFA need also to recognise their role and limitations, as well as the lay of the land. It’s FIFA expanding the World Cup outwards that effectively means it can’t adhere to its own policy of rotating it around continents. Never mind them continually pushing a Club World Cup for their own ego which will just lead to even more player burnout. I like taking it around the world, but they’re making it too onerous to host for the vast majority of the globe, with the exception of a handful of European countries, or autocratic regimes who don’t mind ruinous expense and white elephant stadia if they get a propaganda boost. End of the day if the UK, or the UK + Ireland bid, they’re the only country/combo going that can bring 10+ 50K+ capacity stadiums, purpose built for football out the box and other requisite facilities, of European countries that haven’t hosted a World Cup after them. FIFA are happy to throw a handful of games in South America despite it being a logistical mess, to mark the centenary of a World Cup, but steadfastly refuse to give a tournament to the literal home of the game, that is better suited than almost any other nation to actually hold such an event. I will add the caveat that regular fans, football writers etc were largely fine in waiting their turn, and yeah would have liked the WC, but equally did value taking it around the globe, for keeping the global game well, global. Plus to have some fun holiday destinations! It was only after Qatar was awarded it, with the rather clear corruption involved, some proven subsequently that people said fuck it, and for once rightly so for me. People forget that Qatar bid for a summer World Cup, in the technical assessment phase they proposed that they’d have air-conditioned stadia etc. The technical assessment on criteria clearly isn’t worth bloody doing if a winning bid can completely fail to deliver on it. Not just England here either, I think Australia’s football association grew very disenchanted here too, and quite rightly so. They’re one of the great sporting nations and a World Cup party out there would have been a lot of fun | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23406 Posts
On July 20 2024 06:21 KobraKay wrote: Spain just announced their list of 11 stadiums for WC2030 and it finally hit me that the iberian wc was in fact not so iberian after all. Morroco has 6 stadiums in it. Portugal has 3 only.... Something is very wrong when morocco has more WC level stadiums and infrastructure than Portugal. Was not expecting this sort of split at all. Maybe this is old news that i just noticed but it feels that there are too many stadiums and they are too far apart. The WC atmosphere will be hard to get outside of Spain :/ IIRC a decent chunk of money was put into stadium renovations, expansions, maybe even the odd new stadium for 2004. Some of those subsequently actually downsized as the cost of maintenance ended up pretty crippling in instances where the tenants in regular times weren’t even half-filling them on a week-by-week basis. We’re having something of a similar debate over here regarding the next Euros. Windsor Park, small capacity but apparently OK to host the European Super Cup (a rare match I was actually at), but not big enough to host a Euros game. There’s been a Gaelic football stadia in the works for ages, which if it gets built in time would let us host some Euros games. But many of the Unionist community full stop don’t want public money to go towards it. Then you’ve a cohort that isn’t innately opposed, but at the quoted costs don’t think it’s worth rushing out just to secure a few games at the Euros. I’d largely be in the latter, given the reported 300 million cost. It’s possible it doesn’t become a white elephant as gaelic football is rather big, you maybe host other sporting and especially entertainment gigs as well. But, if it’s going to be a profitable or break-even venture, one has to question why the GAA (Gaelic Athletic Association) aren’t funding more of it. I don’t think it’s a particular deficiency of Portugal to have facilities largely suitable for its own needs and its size. Even a country as football-mad as Brazil has surprisingly low average attendances for domestic football and the facilities they got going to host the FIFA show are frequently millstones around the neck of public finances nowadays. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4202 Posts
Public opinion was not so fond of the money spent on euro 2004 and on the use of the stadiums afterwards. 2 of those clubs went bankrupt even...they were historical upper mid table clubs that now roam the bottom leagues after rebrandings. That is why i said i was not advocating for more stadiums for Portugal. I was just surprised but i guess that the impact of the shift from the original plan was skipped in the news here, hence my surprise when i saw it. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4202 Posts
Thought he was happy where he is :/ They mentioned agreement with player done, just price to discuss with city. | ||
GTR
51301 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6674 Posts
On July 22 2024 11:51 GTR wrote: of course he's happy but if you have the chance to triple your wage at the tail end of your career then the city group isn't going to stop him going to saudi arabia Dunno. I can't believe KdB is tight for money and he is still only 33. Looking at Modric who just signed another year with Madrid. Modric is almost 39 and after this next season he probably still can go to Saudi for good money if he desires | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23406 Posts
As you say, provided the Kingdom keeps pumping the money in, which I suppose isn’t guaranteed, he’ll still have that opportunity in a few years when he perhaps is a bit over the hill when it comes to top level European football | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17754 Posts
On July 22 2024 16:49 WombaT wrote: I can’t lie I’ll be super disappointed if a player of KDB’s calibre, basically at the peak of his powers goes to bloody Saudi Arabia like. I suppose as a (not so) closeted England fan there is the silver lining that Phil Foden becomes the main man as it were, coming off a season where really his performances in KdB’s absence were probably what made the difference in City beating Arsenal to the title. As you say, provided the Kingdom keeps pumping the money in, which I suppose isn’t guaranteed, he’ll still have that opportunity in a few years when he perhaps is a bit over the hill when it comes to top level European football KdB is rather injury prone. There is no guarantee that money will still be there in a year, after another season of people kicking his knees and ankles. | ||
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