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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
GSL Code SStreams & CastersFormat
Map Pool Grand FinalsResultsCSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51325 Posts
Poll: GSL Code S Season 2 Champion Dark (10) Trap (6) 16 total votes Your vote: GSL Code S Season 2 Champion | ||
Obamarauder
697 Posts
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Poopi
France12466 Posts
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Zambrah
United States6831 Posts
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LHK
204 Posts
Completely unrelated, I read that Blizzard has reached out to pros asking for feedback towards a new balance patch -- Any thoughts as to what you'd like to see changed if/when we get a new patch? | ||
[PkF] Wire
France24187 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10149 Posts
Watching G4 again, it really hurt seeing Trap make that weird engagement at the top center near the end. He moved into the Zerg army instead of A-moving, then backed off but lost some units due to that. Keep in mind that Trap was down like 2 upgrades, it was +0/0 Carriers vs +2 armor Hydras, and later it was +1/0 Carriers vs +3 armor Hydras... If Trap had held on like Artosis said, and got more upgrades and bank for interceptors, then Dark would have been in some trouble with the army he sunk his supply into. Even just one more Air attack upgrade would have made a big difference with the Carrier number he had. I thought we'd get a great finals with the way the games were so macro and fun, but then it went to 1-3... then 1-4... oof. Oh well, Rogue vs Dark was an amazing series, and while this finals could have been closer, overall they were all still good games to watch. and it's nice to see PvZ be in a healthy state. | ||
Moonerz
United States410 Posts
But like I said I think Dark showed himself to be the better player that night so cant have any gripes. | ||
Cricketer12
United States13831 Posts
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JJH777
United States4281 Posts
On July 30 2021 06:36 Zambrah wrote: Id say Im surprised by Protoss is not allowed to win GSL, it is the law. More like they aren't allowed to win events that pay more than like 10k to first place. Toss is like 0-20 or something in events with big prizes since mid 2017 and on lol. No GSL/IEM/Blizzcon/WESG It's crazy because I definitely don't think they've been the weakest race for all of that timeframe but as soon as you put big money on the line they just lose every time. | ||
argonautdice
Canada2654 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24187 Posts
On July 30 2021 07:05 Cricketer12 wrote: How the hell did everyone miss the LR for this? TL blackouted for 24 hours following the Blizz Activision current problems. Hard to time it worse... | ||
Obamarauder
697 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2169 Posts
On July 30 2021 07:05 Cricketer12 wrote: How the hell did everyone miss the LR for this? TL was shutdown for a day in support of actiBlizz staff. I must keep saying this: Zerg is just too versatile. M They have too many strategies and you need to account for alm of them limiting Protons builda. On top of that Nydia is completely dumb. "oh they saw the nydus, I'll guess is just make five more". I'm not even convinced Trap could have stopped that push even if dark just had the Nydus at the front. There's also that other game where trap was about to win, and then suddenly two vipers come out of nowhere kill 3 colossus AND still have energy for blinding cloud. Or how Queens are and make everything else immortal. Protoss won't win a major tournament as long as they have two viable builds and Zerg is still so versatile. Want to know the reason why Protoss still do the terrible adept build? It's not because the pros think it's good. It's because if they do the same strategy all games they will lose even harder, so they need to mix it up. And if for some reason you don't scout the adepts, it can still work Ok compared to most other Protoss builds. It at least gets some drone kills. Still, that doesn't make it good, but necessary. This is a result of years of nerfing different Protoss early agression strategies. (Some deservingly, some not). Basically: Protists needs some buffs to help build variety. Or Zerg needs some nerfs to help Protoss have some build variety. Because Protoss is fairly strong against Terran in the Late game, Zerg should be nerfed. I think at least 1 or 2 of these would help a lot: [*]Nerf queen max energy so they don't have infinite transfuses. [*]Nerf the Lurker. It's too cost efficient for a race that's supposed not to be and basically counters all Protoss ground units. I suggest removing at least one of the two completely asinine Hive upgrades that eliminate their counterplay, forcing the protoss into Air every game, which is a big problem when it comes to build variety. (Basically lurker weakness is having to reposition and not being able to move while burrowed which limits their effective range and zoning. This is completely negated by their instant burrow and extra range upgrade. Which is dumb even as a concept. This limits ground based counterplay, forcing protists into Air every game). [*]Remove Abduct, it's a totally unnecessary ability in LotV. Useful in HotS, overkill now. [*]Remove vipers energy Regen ability. They might as well have infinite energy at the moment. Almost as broken as Kaydarin Amulet High Templars in WoL. At least put a limit to the amount of energy they can recover (Recover up to 100 energy, instead of all the energy you want, for example). [*]Change energy cost of Viper abilities. [*]Increase the cost of the nydus, or have a cap of 1-2 max. I would honestly just remove Nydus. Just like the Mother ship core it should have never existed. But alas, not going to happen. I think one or two of those proposed Nerfs would help the matchup a lot without affecting TvZ or PvT considerably. | ||
[PkF] Wire
France24187 Posts
On July 30 2021 07:24 argonautdice wrote: I just found out from Liquipedia that out of 8 GSL since 2019, Trap has always made the playoff. He has 2 Ro8, 3 Ro4, and 3 second places. He's insanely consistent in being a championship contender but never the champion It's almost as tragic as soO's 6 GSL silvers. the palindrome pattern of the last GSLs Artosis pointed out during the broadcast is also pretty amazing : Dark - Rogue - TY - Rogue - TY - Rogue - Dark and I didn't check but I'm pretty confident that's the longest we got. Prolonging the pattern would bring us back to Maru 4peat, so if you're a Maru fan, believe in the palindrome ! | ||
Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
I expected Dark to win but i certainly did not expect Trap to play worse than he did in 2019. | ||
FataLe
New Zealand4400 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On July 30 2021 08:09 [PkF] Wire wrote: Show nested quote + On July 30 2021 07:24 argonautdice wrote: I just found out from Liquipedia that out of 8 GSL since 2019, Trap has always made the playoff. He has 2 Ro8, 3 Ro4, and 3 second places. He's insanely consistent in being a championship contender but never the champion It's almost as tragic as soO's 6 GSL silvers. the palindrome pattern of the last GSLs Artosis pointed out during the broadcast is also pretty amazing : Dark - Rogue - TY - Rogue - TY - Rogue - Dark and I didn't check but I'm pretty confident that's the longest we got. Prolonging the pattern would bring us back to Maru 4peat, so if you're a Maru fan, believe in the palindrome ! If Maru went and won the next 4 GSLs, he'd become the Flash of SC2 That would be insane dominance | ||
Vindicare605
United States15717 Posts
On July 30 2021 08:06 [Phantom] wrote: Show nested quote + On July 30 2021 07:05 Cricketer12 wrote: How the hell did everyone miss the LR for this? TL was shutdown for a day in support of actiBlizz staff. I must keep saying this: Zerg is just too versatile. M They have too many strategies and you need to account for alm of them limiting Protons builda. On top of that Nydia is completely dumb. "oh they saw the nydus, I'll guess is just make five more". I'm not even convinced Trap could have stopped that push even if dark just had the Nydus at the front. There's also that other game where trap was about to win, and then suddenly two vipers come out of nowhere kill 3 colossus AND still have energy for blinding cloud. Or how Queens are and make everything else immortal. Protoss won't win a major tournament as long as they have two viable builds and Zerg is still so versatile. Want to know the reason why Protoss still do the terrible adept build? It's not because the pros think it's good. It's because if they do the same strategy all games they will lose even harder, so they need to mix it up. And if for some reason you don't scout the adepts, it can still work Ok compared to most other Protoss builds. It at least gets some drone kills. Still, that doesn't make it good, but necessary. This is a result of years of nerfing different Protoss early agression strategies. (Some deservingly, some not). Basically: Protists needs some buffs to help build variety. Or Zerg needs some nerfs to help Protoss have some build variety. Because Protoss is fairly strong against Terran in the Late game, Zerg should be nerfed. I think at least 1 or 2 of these would help a lot: [*]Nerf queen max energy so they don't have infinite transfuses. [*]Nerf the Lurker. It's too cost efficient for a race that's supposed not to be and basically counters all Protoss ground units. I suggest removing at least one of the two completely asinine Hive upgrades that eliminate their counterplay, forcing the protoss into Air every game, which is a big problem when it comes to build variety. (Basically lurker weakness is having to reposition and not being able to move while burrowed which limits their effective range and zoning. This is completely negated by their instant burrow and extra range upgrade. Which is dumb even as a concept. This limits ground based counterplay, forcing protists into Air every game). [*]Remove Abduct, it's a totally unnecessary ability in LotV. Useful in HotS, overkill now. [*]Remove vipers energy Regen ability. They might as well have infinite energy at the moment. Almost as broken as Kaydarin Amulet High Templars in WoL. At least put a limit to the amount of energy they can recover (Recover up to 100 energy, instead of all the energy you want, for example). [*]Change energy cost of Viper abilities. [*]Increase the cost of the nydus, or have a cap of 1-2 max. I would honestly just remove Nydus. Just like the Mother ship core it should have never existed. But alas, not going to happen. I think one or two of those proposed Nerfs would help the matchup a lot without affecting TvZ or PvT considerably. Protoss is favored vs Terran and is absolutely DESTROYING GM league in both North America and Europe. It absolutely does not need to be buffed any further. GSL Code S is the only tournament that hasn't seen a Protoss champion in a while. Super Tournaments are routinely dominated by them and Protoss wins plenty just about everywhere else. The problem is Trap. The dude just IS NOT cut out to be a consistent champion. He falls apart mentally constantly and players like Dark do not. If he's the best Protoss Korea has to offer, then sorry there just isn't going to be a Code S champion Protoss for a while. | ||
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